This is entirely BS and borderline slander. Watch it dude. Seriously. I speak from knowledge; you babble from ignorance.

Conjecture and slander are two different things.

With all the bitching and moaning and accusations here, would YOU want to post here if you were JPOP? Heck, I barely want to enter this thread but then I see stuff like the b*llsh*t I quoted above and had to respond to.

Short story: Games are coming along nicely, like 80% and 90% at this point, will be like no other game you've seen, great details and innovation everywhere, all done with quality talent and assistance on a frugal budget (no, there is NO cash crunch--I believe Ice will confirm soon), and anyone who sees the current status would be very happy indeed. How do I know this? I just spent 2 full days in JPOP's workshop. And I think Kim will be able to confirm in a day or so, after his visit.

The only thing John is guilty of is being overwhelmed a bit with all the crap while he's trying to make great games. Yeah, he should show more and many of us are trying to convince him to do so. But then again, there are still a few reasons why he isn't.

Yeah, I know. I did the law school thing. It's a fine line that can be crossed easily. And adding a few wishy-washy words is not necessarily a valid defense.

I'm leaving this sewer now. Those with a horse in this race know where to get good info from.

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The legal beagle crap is more sewage than outrageous pinball speculation will ever be.

Exactly.

The "I know more than you so you are a moron" holier than thou crap is more sewage than outrageous pinball speculation will ever be.

Jeeeeeez

At the end of the day, JPOP has only himself to blame for this whole mess.

A simple 60 second email once a week to owners, and this thread wouldn't even exist.

Now poor old Iceman has to waste half his life trying to help the guy.

Plus Ice is down 24 beers that he had to give me in an ill-advised bet. The whole thing is a huge downer.

So there.

heh.

rd.

I look forward to Ice confirming this one way or other, because I don't know how else it could be explained about vendors not being paid, staff not being paid, people not wanting to work for free, $15/hour assistant not hired, people being ignored for refunds, etc. The kind explanation is John ran out of money. If he's sitting on cash with all the above true, just further compounds how self-inflicted all these problems are.

John doesn't need to post to THIS THREAD, he has his own blog. That's where he needed to post, and respond, to HIS CUSTOMERS. Anyone looking at the blog can see the ongoing frustration and lack of response. When the blog goes live to the public, beyond the art that people will see, there is a major narrative on there that will be shown to the world. Likely why the blog isn't public yet.

No wonder he can't get anything done. He has a bunch of people calling on the phone for hours and stopping by his workshop for days.

What was the bet?

Ice and StephenP seem to both feel that the money already sent in is not gone and that the remaining payments due will be enough to finish the games. Ice has high levels of financial sophistication and says he will verify this point soon...good enough for me.

I can clearly recall in my blog post to him after expo, the one that started the ball rolling, that he could talk to 100+ people for an hour on the phone each or he could just give everyone the answers on the blog that we were looking for.

I didn't realize then what would play out for 5 months. I haven't talked to him on the phone in a while, but when I have in the past I was always thinking I didn't want to bother him or keep him from his work, but he was happy to chat for a long time.

I think he would prefer to have 100 one hour conversations with each of the buyers. Which, fine, he's a nice friendly guy and its always cool to talk pinball, but as a company owner myself I can't speak with each customer like that.

Which brings us back to his terrible time management.

I know it's not my place to speak. But IMO John should have an open policy on refunds now that he is officially 1- 2 years late. I am not saying he won't get the pins done. But the contract was not solely for John's benifit, the owners expected a product.

People who pre-ordered deserve something for the free loan, and aggravation and yet father delays. I think there is a better chance of me becoming the next Queen of England than of RAZA owners getting pins delivered in the next 9 months.

I can say I'm very grateful of both Iceman & Mr68. Thank you guys for your efforts in moving this huge project forward.

I, probably like most of the RAZA & MG buyers, will be anxiously waiting for a personalized update from you guys real soon... like a school girl waiting by the phone for a prom date.

Thanks again!

Rai, my man, are you saying your a queen?

Not that theres anything wrong with that.

The private owners group is an established success. On day two, JPOP's attorney joined the group. He is freely interacting with us and has already provided a lot of information. Much of it he provided without us even asking.

We still have a ways to go and Iceman will be doing some heavy lifting. But after last nights round table discussion my stress level has flat lined.

FYI. My schedule is tight and I have no time to return emails. I will get you into the group when time permits but give me a few days. Thanks

I got an invite but the links will not work. Did anyone else have this problem and how did you fix it?

I sent Kim an email but expect it will take a bit to get back to me. I'd like to catch up on what's going on.

Thanks,
Dave

I had the same problem and he told me it worked for everyone else so I thought I was the only one, guess I wasn't. I got a blank page when I clicked on the link he sent me....

a) If you had any knowledge whatsoever you would know that you can't silence someone on an internet message board with "slander" accusations. Your semester at law school before realizing you couldn't hack it doesn't intimidate anyone, so you can probably stop trying to use it as an appeal to authority 30 years later.

b) Yes, if I were JPop I would want to post here - it's called client management and public relations.

c) Freedom of speech is a valid defense. We are all glad to hear your professional advice is to throw money at a frivolous lawsuit against somebody who offended you on the internet. I can see why you are so successful.

I went through my blackberry and that worked. I too couldn't get it through regular email. Give your personal hand held device a try. Perhaps even ipad

~These games are done when they are done~

Zidware obviously isn't Stern churning out good enough games on a timely matter for the current pinball market. The aim of Zid's shit is to make one of a kind games whose aura last a lifetime for however long it may take to produce. It just sucks that wasn't communicated at the start.

JPOP is not the best at PR and business management, so hopefully the games really are that good that you will forget about it in the end...

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It worked on my iphone. Thanks.

FFS just let it go man or go start a free speech thread, this shit is becoming white noise. I just want my F#cking game!

I don't think his posts (or anyone else's) are going to make one bit of difference on whether or not you get your pin. They'll either be completed or they won't, and people acting like this thread would prevent it from happening are delirious.

John???????

Every time I see the pejorative "haters" used, I know who lost the argument. "Haters" is a term that's used when one simply cannot formulate an effective argument and rather than admitting their own argumentative weakness, they project their own feelings on their superior opponents.

Hate away, haters!

Good grief! YK's post (or anyone else's in this thread) will not prevent mine or anyone else's games from being made. If you think I think that your delirious! This thread is one of the resorces where owners (and non owners) can exchange info about JPOP's games... Let's leave the purse fighting out of it.... That's all I was trying to say.

Actually, that was my point. And yes, I would have to be delirious or at least drunk (I'm not BTW) to think the exact thing that I said was ridiculous in the first place. Buck up, fella. After reading the last couple pages, I'd be cautiously optimistic at this point, which is a far cry from the desperation I was reading about just a few weeks ago.

It's all good Honch... I am actually feeling cautiously optomistic at this point.

My Daddy Is Better At Arguing About Pinball On Pinside Than Your Daddy! Meh!

So what did the lawyer say?

That's only privy to the owners' group, which probably needs to operate behind closed doors during this "intervention" (i.e., out-of-court restructuring). If the situation becomes adversarial, I doubt the owners would want to be discussing strategy and tactics in an open forum frequently read by JPop himself. They may not want JPop's attorney participating either, given his inherent conflict of interest.

So this whole project is about to go dark?

No. Someone started a Facebook group and they're talking there. Whatever, fine. If you're going to talk off in private then just do it, don't talk about it here.

Jpop said he's opening the blog, according to ice, so I don't see what it has to do with anything.

It would be nice if it was that simple. If any buyers talk here they get flamed. Pinside is hardly a friendly place anymore.

Pinside is still a pretty friendly place outside of a few threads involving pre-orders.

Eh, I think it's fine. Most of the bitching in here is coming from frustrated owners frankly. That's on John, not Pinside.

Edit: Removed pointless stuff.

It has been owners here mostly. I want the doors blown open on this whole thing. Sick of the secret shop visits with the "OMG!! Can't tell you what I saw but.... OMG!!!!" We've had that for years now.

All I want now is a plan for how that machine will end up in my house.

Ice said John was opening the blog, I would hope he's realizing that secrecy is just hurting him at this point.

Like I said, you want to have a private group then do it. And I guess you need to promote it here to attract people for a bit, but I hope this thread doesn't turn into "talked to Jpop's lawyer on Facebook last night about sekrit things" over and over. Because that's just going to foster ill will.

I do want to say, in light of what is happening in the Predator thread, I am optimistic I may very well see a RAZA someday. It's "only" a money problem and time management problem for getting them out. Both can be solved, and hopefully someone like Ice can get John to change his MO.

I'm sorry your feelings are so hurt over this but its beginning to become weird.

I'm a RAZA owner, if it's ever made. I'd like to keep updates fully open if possible. One of the biggest complaints has been JPoP's secret squirrel blog. I understand that there are some Pinside posters who wreck havoc at every opportunity, but I think transparency rules the day in the long run.

I don't even know what you're talking about. Why would I ask for this thread to be closed? You're confusing me.

I edited my quote above.

Agreed thank god RAZA isn't a licensed theme... That's a headache we don't need!

Ignoring Robby the robot, godzilla, mars attacks but yeah he can pull them out and move on if there's problems.

What's funny about this whole episode is the artificial classification of interest levels. The "owners" are now forming a secret group to do an "out-of-court" restructuring because His Excellence and Royal Highness Our Dear Leader Iceman has gotten to the bottom of it and given the unruly JPOP a good talking to.

WHat a joke this entire escapade has become. It would absolutely be laughable if so many people weren't on the verge of losing so much money.

Also, does anyone find the parallel universe with SPFXTed and SkitB more than coincidental?

It's great for these guys to jump up and lead, but I find their reassurances nothing other than more of the same through a 3rd party. Why must the limited communications always consist of gunnados instead of duns?