A scary thought for buyers: What if the games do get built, are cool to look at, but have the rules of a Zizzle?

I get the feeling from the comments here on Pinside that most people are at the end of the rope as far as sending John any more cash. I would guess that those who are deeply invested would most likely want to see him continue. If he is out of cash and pre-order owners stand firm on not funding him any more then I guess he will have no choice but to throw in the towel. The only interesting thing left to see is what he does if the cash stops coming in and the coffers run dry. Will he then honestly try to answer the questions that many have been asking him and that he has been ignoring up to this point?

That is honestly a very good question and the other side of this whole equation. Manufacturing and code development, presumably, are all still hurdles left to jump. Owners may demand that the games be shipped ASAP and that could force John into a situation where he has to decide to ship without incomplete code. At the rate we have seen JJP and Stern finish code with teams of programmers, I shudder to think what that will mean for someone like John.

John and reality have parted ways some time ago and are not currently on speaking terms.

He is clearly oblivious to the fact that the walls are crumbling around him

I have offered to help him code in the past (couple years ago at this point?), nothing came of it though. I think the distance thing was an issue (IL vs MA)

Apparently not, since the guy he DID have programming on contract was in another country. Until that ended.

If JJP can have things done by someone in Holland pretty sure IL to MA isn't a deal killer for anyone.

Bummer. Well the offer still stands if he needs it.

He seems like someone hard to work for though.. unless you're very comfortable with uncertainty. I.e., the uncertainty that you see with all the pre-order-ers here.. so that seems mirrored with anyone who works for/with him as well.

Meh, the timeline seems flexible enough to get it done

...I'm kidding I'm kidding. I don't have any money in his games, but I do feel bad for the peeps that do. Alice does interest me, though, like others have said, until something ships I'm not putting any money down.

My understanding is Jpop pays his developers (and vendors) upfront.

Oh, wait, maybe it is he never pays them, I get those things confused.

This thread is unraveling....no pun intended

Its definitely one of those!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Am I the only one who looks at that list of URLs and think this whole thing is a giant Ponzi scheme?

Announce a game, take deposits, show some occasional photos, repeat.

Sorry couldn't resist. I agree this whole thing is turning into one big mess.
Ron.jpg

No, you're not. I had the same thought last night while reading this and thinking about what a mess this appears to be. The name Poponziduik kept popping up in my head. No, I'm not kidding. Wish I was.

Ponziadiuk

rd.

He's showing things slowly. Doing video of a working game to present the buyers.... If he continues to avoid giving hard dates after he shows stuff then I guess there will be issues... He's saying he still going to hold stuff back

like deposits and a complete game for his customers...yeah no need for panic.

Yeah another 6 or 7 years of this shit and these guys are seriously gonna put their foot down.

That comment makes me think it is less Ponzi and more of a CULT.

He's the cult leader and all the pre-order people are his followers who are completely brainwashed, and the same followers keep making excuses for him because they're totally hooked.

The analogy kind of breaks down since a lot of the "cult members" seem to be rebelling now.

Dude, who are trying to fool? He's never going to build games. It's time for people to just face it. It's been years, he's taken money for three titles, and he's still not showing the first one. And he has the balls to ask for more money for vaporware title 3, and build fantasy KISS games, and put up a host of bullshit broken websites for all his other vaporware games that will never happen. That's your money he's wasting doing that.

He doesn't have a "working game". I'm sorry to use this analogy, but you sound like an abused spouse. You say "if he keeps avoiding giving hard dates" like this isn't the pattern he's followed the entire time. He did the "baby, I can change!" speech, promised a big rug reveal, and then ... nothing. It's time to face what's going on, that you're sending money to someone so he can play in his sandbox, and cut yourself free.

Designing is the fun part. That's the playtime. The rest is hard work. A LOT of hard work. He can't even finish playing. It's done.

You're just prolonging the inevitable, and wasting your cash. I doubt you'll ever see a dime back, and that sucks. Cointaker shouldn't have gotten involved, they're a legit business, maybe something will happen there, I dunno.

Best of luck to you all, but I think it's time to stop dreaming and figure out if you can rescue any of your money, or at least save yourself the pain of sending him more.

I feel terrible and embarrassed when I'm a week late delivering my translites because they're delayed at the printer or something. And I don't take a dime from people until they're ready to ship, I don't even have their money, just my promise to take care of things as fast as I can. Makes me feel like a jerk. I can't believe Jpop gets up every day, wanders into his studio (which I hear is fucking huge) and starts dreaming out his fantasy half naked cosplay girl bowling game, while asking people to buy him coffee so they can hear his wisdom. (You know who you are, sorry, had to throw that one in there.)

It's just pinball. We all love it, but it's not the freaking Mona Lisa. This isn't a 40 year epic journey of a master craftsman. It's a guy who was a junior designer at Williams trying to live out his dream of still making pinball, promising people the moon (I haven't even said a word yet about the ridiculous bullshit he promised people was going to be animated on the LCD screen at Expo, you guys all know that's utter bollocks right?) and meanwhile doing his pinball designer masturbation into piles of your cash.

I'd be afraid to show my face at Expo if I was Jpop. I'd be ashamed of what I was doing. Dude is so self unaware though that instead he waltzes in with empty freaking cabinets, with art that he doesn't have permission to use, a translite he won't let people take photos of, and then has the gall to tell people to just check out how bad ass the *hinges* are! Because that's the problem collectors of ultra rare pinball have, they're so tired of folding down the heads on their precious games with standard hinges.

Sorry, I'm starting to rant here. But he's giving boutique pinball a bad name. He's the poster child for irresponsible overpriced bullshit. If he ever ships all the Magic Girls and I haven't keeled over from old age I will personally donate $100 to Pinside. Feel free to remind me, I've lost a bet on here before and donated happily. My money feels rock solid safe to me.

I don't even know what to say anymore.

Aurich, I'm thinking it and you're typing it, spot on dude.

Had to hit the little down-thumb on this. There's every reason to panic. He has shown absolutely no ability or desire to get anything done.

I'd start with "John, I'm flying out to your studio next week to pick up my refund, have it in cash, your checks are no good to me."

Ponzaiduik, Poponziduik, no matter how you spell it the definition is the same.

Guys what's the point of all this^
Us guys who have money with JPOP get it! You all think we have been scammed. Posting it over and over here on Pinside serves no purpose (I think by now we all get it) maybe we have been scammed or maybe someday John will start producing games that are epic, but panicking or posting over and over that games are not coming really isn't helpful (again after 2500 posts in this thread we get it). For the guys with money out to John like me what are you suggesting we do? Panic? Threaten? Lawyer up, have a sit in protest at his shop?
IMHO All we can do is wait some more... It is what it is at this point!

If I had a time machine and could go back in time and fix things in my life, sending money to John wouldn't even make the top 500 list of things I would change if given the chance. Life is too short for regrets over a pinball machine.

I'm not even in on this one, just a bystander (thankfully, sorry guys) but even I'm feeling kinda mad about it all. It just feels like people are being taken advantage of now. He made a lot of big promises, and isn't delivering on any of them. It's not even like he made the game and you're let down because the code hardly works and the animations are all missing (because really, has there been any serious talk about either).

You're not even being shown what you paid for. All this NDA secret access shit, for a long time I thought you guys were seeing bad ass stuff, and I was kinda annoyed that it was even being talked about here. You know, "lalala, look what I can see and you can't!" stuff. I admit it, I was probably minor grade jealous, curious at least. Then it finally comes to light that all you're getting is fish eye shots and piles of stuff on tables. Dude, that's the shit I used to pull in high school when I had a big project that I was blowing off and I was trying to show my art advisor that i was really doing stuff. "See! Check out all this foamcore and bottles of paint! Really getting into it now!"

Thing is this isn't high school. I don't do that with paid clients. If I'm behind then I'm damn well scrambling at the end to get it done, because they're paying me. And I'm a professional.

I dunno, maybe it's because my job is in the creative industry, I just can't settle for this stuff. I know what it's like to have a billion ideas and get distracted. I'm messing with this Metallica mod and I keep getting new thoughts that expand it. Or something sort of related. Or let's be honest, not related at all but man it sounds like fun. The difference is no one has been promised shit. This is my personal playtime. I can get it done because I want to share it and see if people want to buy it. Or I can tinker and fart around because I have a company already that does paying work and this is mine to do with as I like.

Jpop wants his cake and ice cream and cookies and he just announced he's doing a donut next. And he's gonna eat them all. And you paid for them. And maybe you can hold your nose next to a crack in the box and smell them. Cause they smell good. But then he's gonna go in his studio, close the door, and eat those bad boys up. And you can't have any.

That is exactly what he is hoping for. He has been cut slack for so long, he feels he can get away with it. Pull the band-aide off and let the healing begin. Something I live by is 100% of nothing is still nothing. An owner will eventually hit his limit and will force the debacle in one direction or another. Time will tell which direction that is.

I mean, I'm obviously venting, you can tell I'm worked up.

But the thing that kills me isn't people like you, I know you're just glumly trying to ride it out. It's when people show up going "Get in on AIW while you can, those slots are gonna go fast!" that my eyes want to just explode.

Hopefully anyone who could afford to send John money can afford to lose it. Sucks, wish it wasn't so, but I would think that you kinda knew it was possible and it's not like college funds or something. I'm definitely not trying to rub it in.

But no one should be sending him another dime. There shouldn't be any hope left. If he actually has something maybe the only way he'll man up and reveal it is if he gets desperate enough because the play cash has stopped flowing, I dunno. You can choose then to try and support what's left or not.

Spooky should pick up AIW and do it with American McGee.

It's all good Aurich your heart is in the right place and I know you just don't want to see anyone get burned.

Why am I getting shit on lol... I'm stating what he's saying and doing to the people who can't see it.. If u go back in this thread u can see I'm one of the guys shitting on this whole thing... The only thing I regret saying is no need to panic.. I don't know why I wrote that lol.
But I would love to see someone break the nada and post everything... He would probably cry and stop updating...

.

I would like to respectfully nominate these back to back posts by Aurich for the Best Pinside Rant of the Year.

Where do I send my ballot?

Or how about, "John, I am flying out to your studio next week to pick up my refund, have it in cash,
or you are going out on a date with my friend........... Leroy."

Aurich's rants are spot on and what most of us want to say but don't. He has spent a lot of time here at the forum, and I lean to listen when he speaks/types.

I feel for everyone who invested in this situation, but if you give him ANY more money while he's got 3 vaporware games and 2 "coming soon" games and still hasn't even produced game #1, well, Barnum and Bailey would have a FIELD DAY with you....

I understand the rage from sympathizers. We're all in the pinball fraternity together and we care about each other and it isn't right if some of us have had thousands of dollars thrown away with nothing to show for it.

I've done the same thing in Predator threads.... I get angry to see things screwed up so badly. ESPECIALLY when it is preventable. In this case some simple ANSWERS to questions that have been asked again and again and ignored again and again.

I keep reading over and over the description of this situation as an "investment" in Zidware. My question is, how exactly is any of this considered an "investment?" Is it because the games will presumably quadruple in value, if and when they are released, due to their rarity?

I don't see anywhere where stock or interests in the company Zidware have been bought, sold, or traded. But for the presumed immediate appreciation in value of these games upon release, how is sending money off to purchase a game in any way, shape, or form an "investment?".

I have purchased NIB games on several occasions, but I have never considered it an "investment" in stern. It was simply a transaction for the purchase of goods. I paid, they delivered. The best I can tell, a very important part of the bargained for exchange of goods herein appears to missing.

This is not meant to come across as a finger point or rubbing it in, we all know that this isn't how it all started out years ago and hindsight is just that, hindsight, so sorry if does come across that way.

I'm agreeing with the messages that basically say don't throw good money after bad and am personally frustrated that I can't just throw on a cape and swoop into Jpops studio and knock some sense into him and put a rocket up his backside. Withholding funds is the only non superhero option I can see working short of a collective legally backed intuitive. I would also like him to do a u turn on AIW and state that he is concentrating on MG and RAZA (after refunding AIW money), but again that would take a degree of self awareness I haven't seen from him to date.

I'll state for the record that I hope it all works out eventually for Jpops customers and vendors but I have little respect for Jpops business practices that's for sure, hence my agreement with Aurich's posts.

funny I never saw any posts saying it's an investment, I see a lot of posts saying we paid for a product that has not been delivered. Can you point out any posts that use the word investment?

Oh, how close I was to buying into this game 2 years ago. Why did I pass? Because when someone needs you to sign a non-discloser to enter a building and everything is lip sealed but ask for so much money upfront and don't speak or you'll be booted, type of attitude. I am out! Sorry, when I give you my cash, I can say whatever I want about the machine to whoever I want to. I am a firm believer that if someone is so secretive they must have something to hide. If I were building a pinball machine and I didn't ask for a dime upfront then I can see be secretive.
I'm a firm believer that he knows what he is doing. I'm also a firm believer that he can't stay on task. His OCD is getting in the way. Can he do the job? Not by himself.

Screen Shot 2014-12-18 at 6.31.40 PM.png

So if all there really is is some artwork and scattered pinball parts, then what exactly were people seeing at John's shop that they were so jazzed about? More artwork? I thought there were supposed to be flipping machines.

If it's all a Ponzi scheme, the feds should kick in his door and arrest him before he rips off anyone else immediately after my game is delivered to me.

Let's see if this works:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread……………mg-raza-and-aiw…?tq=Invested&tu

And

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread……………mg-raza-and-aiw…?tq=Investment&tu

Ben Heck when on to spooky to actually ship games.. there's gotta be a thread explaining why he left the zombie adventure project, right?? I'd be interested to see a couple year old explanation of why he bailed; I suspect it resonates with the Aurich rant.

Me too. At this point it almost feels like he's waiting for someone to break it. I bet if you break the NDA he'll try to kick you out and keep the deposit.

With all the warnings on site of NOT TO BE DISTRIBUTED, CONFIDENTIAL, DO NOT RELINK, DIGITAL WATERMARKS for tracing leaked images etc etc etc.... I know it would be a monumental task to individually watermark the images with some kind of user identifiable info, but at this point I'm guessing he's just paranoid enough to actually do it. At which point he'd keep the $ and no longer have to listen to us whine on the blog, so basically a win-win for him and everything to lose for us.

I wish Aurich was in on this project, only so he'd light up the blog. Too many of the owners are still silent.

Does a watermark show up if u take a screen shot from ur phone lol...

I don't think so....Try it....

Wouldn't you be if you had that much cash on the line?