I bet pinball life will get a game he is owed as well, otherwise soup Nazi no parts for jpop

They reached out to me as well. I don't have any money into JPOP's games. I've been pretty vocal about this tho, obvi. I'm guessing that's why they want to talk. I've responded and asked some pretty pointed, but fair questions. Of course I'll kelp y'all updated once/if we speak further.

Yep. The web of people f'ed over by JPOP is a lot larger than people who bought MG games. Maybe they figure making these 26 MG games will make us forget about RAZA, AIW, pintasia, and vendors that were screwed?

Or maybe jPop hasn't told American pinball about all these other debts have owes and they don't know the line is a lot longer.

Big cluster.. I guess it will be interesting October

Perhaps JPOP entered a relationship with this company that initially pays him nothing until all of his debts are settled?

There's two ways of dissecting him: a crook or a person who was so naive that he spun himself into his current position.

He claims the latter, right? At least he did on C2C.

Not that ignorance is an excuse or returns heaps of money to his customers.

If JPOP really *is* distraught over the situation, perhaps he has entered into an arrangement that will attempt to deliver everyone their money and/or product?

The knee jerk reaction is to not give him any benefit because of the massive amounts of money that disappeared - not to mention the misleading statements and promises.

But, this situation is so weird at the moment that it's worth waiting to see what American Pinball has to say in the coming weeks

Well, I'd like it if someone contacted me since I'm one of those out money.

But if they're only dealing with the small list of mg owners and think that will clear the rep, that is a foolish plan since there are many times that in raza and aiw.

It's also worth noting that American Pinball had their hand forced. The original announcement was solely about Houdini. Once Pinside connected the dots and went nuts, rightfully so, and began the Facebook and Pinside campaigns was when American Pinball decided to respond and started talking MG.

Im personally worried that American Pinball had zero idea how bad the JPOP situation is. I mean, they wanted to announce Houdini and go to expo without so much as mentioning JPOP's debt and wrongdoings. Yikes.

And for those who chose to attack me for being inciteful, this is precisely why. Idiots.

There is no credit due to American Pinball yet.

I'm not feeling any warm and fuzzies at all. JPop took large amounts of cash promising the same to buyers of RAZA and AIW that he did to the MG group. He had my money paid up on RAZA with never a hint of the crash pending.

I'll take my refund or the pin I paid for.

I did get to meet up with Bill this weekend. It was a pleasure to meet my old war buddy!

The friends I've made in this hobby far outweigh any of the negativity so I'd do it all again.

image (resized).jpeg

Willing to bet the MG cabinets are at the Palatine location on Vermont St

Pinball circles are so small... it's hard to believe they wouldn't know and/or do due diligence. But... stranger things have happened.

If these guys roll out MG and it's awesome, I'll be impressed. Talk about a blindside (of goodness)...

Whoever is on the right looks like a dead ringer for Mike Wolfe of American Pickers to me.

Given the year+ since the reveal, it's entirely possible MG has been made playable (mostly by pulling crap out of it) If someone was willing to waste enough money no reason it couldn't have been finished. Just because it's not logical doesn't mean it's not possible.

Surely some of you here know about Duke Nukem Forever. A game in development since 1997. Eventually company went out of business. Volunteer programmers and Gearbox Software picked up the pieces and actually finished/released the game in 2011! It wasn't great, but it was playable and real. In return now Gearbox owns the rights to the character for future games.

AP could very well have nothing but the best intentions. With a rumored BOM of 7k, it would *only* take about 200k to make the 26 original investors whole. This would give people confidence towards Houdini.

But there's that word. Confidence. Guess where "con" comes from? See, even if it's not their intention, fulfilling MG could be seen as a Ponzi scheme by the community.

Technically John (nor Kevin) ran a Ponzi scheme. A Ponzi scheme requires early investors to actually GET something back, which gives new investors the confidence to jump in. Neither of them shipped anything.

[Announcing to] ship MG is done to get new money into Houdini. That's a fact, and a part of business. But right now, there's no way the community will see that as anything BUT a Ponzi scheme. The fact they hid it at first isn't a good sign either, shows they wanted to slide it under the table. So their biggest challenge isn't engineering, or even John at this point, it's the court of public opinion.

3 things will need to happen by/at Expo to even make this possible:

1) Show working, complete and playable MG, with timeline for delivery
2) Show working, complete and playable Houdini
3) Announce plan to help the 150 RAZA/AIW buyers including Cointaker

RAZA/AIW deal should be whatever you've got into it comes off the top for a MG or Houdini. Gonna cost the investor a fortune, but he bought the crappy old house and now he's gotta fix it up. Legally he doesn't have to but in the court of public opinion he does.

Even then it's going to be a stretch. There are so many (too many?) games coming out from known, trusted companies. AP is going to have to do a helluva lot to get people to take a chance on them.

(Since I've been lynched out of the other happening JPOOP thread)

...regardless of his business acumen, the guy made some great games. Some great, well-rounded, full packaged games. I realize he didn't do ALL the work with ALL the games he worked on. And maybe much less than I give him credit for. But take any JPOOP game and go through the following checklist:

[ ] amazing art package, from the PF to the backglass
[ ] well thought out themes intergrated beautifully with the game
[ ] incredible sound design
[ ] innovative gimmicks

Aren't those the things any pinball enthusiast worth their weight in silver balls are looking for?

So while there might be numerous reasons why JPOOP was the only designer from the golden era not contacted by Stern or JJP (personally, I'm leery of anyone who tucks a t-shirt into their pants, but that's just my own thang) to work for them, there are also numerous reasons why people gave the guy money sight unseen. And lots of good reasons why Pinball Arcade has decided to showcase his designs.

I hear John just bought a Hellcat

I dunno those cabinets sure look the same to me

Wrong thread?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-jpop-game-houdini-just-announced/page/11#post-3364303

Art's clearly different. They appear more angled than a standard WMS cabinet, but perhaps they are modified to accept a standard piece of glass while still allowing room for the larger rear screen.

That could be it. There does not appear to be anywhere on the backbox for the display, so you would think it would still be under the glass. The adjustment of the cabinet to a lesser angle for standard glass would solve some of the problems the original steep angle had.
Wasn't there some problem with the original design where the glass would hit the shooter or something else when removing or installing the glass?

I see the small changes to the art, but in reference to the slope. The early picture was taken with the legs on versus AP picture without the legs.
(Just speculation)

No, but it was VERY close.. I remember watching a video of him showing the glass being removed, and saying something to the affect of "It's very close, but it worked out", and everyone commented "Umm, I thought the cabinet was designed in solidworks? Seems like something that arbitrary like glass size and shooter rods clearing could have been figured out before you made prototypes?"

Absolutely!

If people didn't have a great deal of respect for JPop pin designs, do you think there would have been as many people as there were who gave him money up front, even though he had never released a game under his own company (Zidware)? (edit: you acknowledge this in your post)

So just because he gets credit for having some fun games under his belt is just kind of stating the obvious and has very little to do with the current situation/issues. Despite what he's done in the past (with a ton of help, by the way, and he never did any of the art on any of his games) he has proven himself to be a liar, a cheat, and a clueless fool who, at best, got in way over his head and refused to admit it for far too long.

Oh, believe me, I think he's truly a shitbag who shouldn't be running his own business. And I totally feel for the people that gave him money - if I wasn't such a poor muhfuh, I'd have given the dude plenty of money too!

I just don't feel that history should be re-written to be like "oh well, it's not like his games are so great".

(PS anyone know where I can read more about what led to JPOOP not completing WCS? It's a fascinating subject)

Here is some of it (Steve Ritchie comments):

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/steve-ritchie-interview-from-2001-i-think

MARK: Yes, that was the beginning of the end, Star Trek, World Cup Soccer, that's when it started to slide.

STEVE: Oh, World Cup. World Cup was taken over.

MARK: It wasn't a bad pin, it's still all right, actually we still operate it.

STEVE: In the end it turned out to be pretty Ok, but in the beginning it was handled by a newbie. The game designer was a stubborn newbie, and it had to be taken over by someone else.

MARK: Did this happen very often?

STEVE: Actually it never happened before unless somebody died or got sick.

MARK: Did he abandon the project or did he just get the sack?

STEVE: Neither. He cooperated, learned and latter did Theatre of Magic and some other really good work. But when he first came in he thought he just knew everything about making pinballs and it is just not that kind of thing. You have to live it for a long time, you must have an affinity for mechanicals and you have to be able to work with other people.

MARK: Working with others is essential, unless you are a going it alone.

STEVE: No one could make a great pinball alone. The closest I've seen is Brian Eddy on Shadow, I think. I believe he drew the game and then programmed it. It was quite a feat, but he had to learn about mechanicals on that game. It was tough, but I will always admire him for doing that.

MARK: I suppose you get some people that are stubborn or arrogant.

STEVE: We actually all are, and we have egos, make no mistake. You can't just BE those things because you feel like it, though. Like every other human group endeavor, there is a pecking order and rank. Your opinion will be more valued if you have a history of respected accomplishments in an engineering environment. Each person in the game design engineering dept. must earn that respect.
I would love to say yes to every suggestion everyone has for a given game design. I love it when others contribute to our project in powerful ways. It makes the game strong. It brings the team closer, and it makes everyone feel good about what they are doing. I don't care where good ideas come from, who's offering them or the fact that it's my team. Good ideas, no matter their origination, go into my products. Bad ideas don't. We as game designers do have final say, but we can be politicked, cajoled, pushed and convinced. Before I say no to an idea, I consider every aspect carefully. I do not let myself fall into the Not Invented Here syndrome. I am not insecure about my ability to create more ideas, and so I can be objective. What I am insecure about (Always!) is having a good product. Good ideas are gratefully accepted, always.

MARK: Well that's a credit to you. There would be a lot of people out there who wouldn't accept an idea unless it came out of their head or they could somehow mutate it looking like their idea.

STEVE: In a business as small as this biz, everyone knows who's good and who isn't, who is respected and who is not. At Williams, we only had a few designers who wouldn't go all the way to glory on one front or another. We would all pressure each other to make good games. It often had more power than management's whining.

MARK: That's quite effective isn't it?

STEVE: It was a wonderful thing when it worked out that way.

MARK: Yes, you would respect your co-workers opinion more that management's because their motive ideally is the same as yours.

If that were the difference the back box would not be vertical when different legs were installed. They are vertical now... Hence the cabinet angle would not change in the final installed configuration

Since JPOP is only a designer I never understood why people felt comfortable giving him money?

If I took a guess people didn't think at all and just gave him money. That's would be crazy if true.

The reason this gets so much contention is because when people argue over this they ignore the dimensions of measuring a game that they don't necessarily value the same. Most of his games are not great player games and pretty easy to master. Hence they lose "value" to many people... While their great art/sound/approachability are positives for other kinds of collectors.

Measuring a game means being objective to all the dimensions and trying to sum them all up. Many can't do that.

Because there are far more collectors than really advanced playing collectors.. Games like Tom,totan,cv, have always demanded a premium that exceeds their player value or value as a total game. And that over valuation also makes them a lightning rod... Leading to more hate

Hype..speculation... And artificial, fake, special opportunity belief jpop spun up with his secrecy and teases.

Nothing about it was rational... It was all speculative and emotional. People thought jpop was the driving force that lead to those memorable titles. They just ignored or were oblivious that ying normally needs a yang to be whole.

People bought into the artist... And ignored that this was a startup business too. If jpop had a business majority owner to start with... Things could have been very different. Jpop sold on the "design is the most important" mantra... Which can not go unchecked when you need to run a business.

So, guys? I'm going to the unveiling.

Pictures and/or video please!

Oh of course. I'm actually doing freelance for a pinball website, and this is sorting out to be the story of the year, no offense to JJP #3 or Batman66 or whatever.

Does anyone here use Periscope to live stream video? Might be useful

That would be correct if headboxes were actually vertical when the machine was on legs. But that's not the case. They lean forward on an angle.

I haven't run a ruler over those cabinets but they certainly don't look stock BW size to me. Closer to JPOP than BW.

rd.

IMG_3188 (resized).JPG

Something else to consider, half of the "patented LCD screen" was obscured by PF junk. Another reason to simplify game.

Or make the screen a bit smaller.

rd

Yes they tilt forward... But not much. Roughly 6deg. Do you think 6 deg is the difference between the slope of the jpop cabinet and the wpc cabinet rail? At. 43.5 inch run... 6 degrees is about 4.5 inches of additional height. I don't know the dimensions of the jpop cab.

But looking at the bottom edge of the cabinet hinge between the two photos of jpop and AP... It does look like the cabinet has a long way to go up until it's in the position we saw from jpop. So I've changed my mind... I agree with pdxmoney and you

Always good to keep an open mind. And never deal in absolutes.

If I get a chance I'll try and measure the cabs up using some advanced guesswork and Houdini-like magical equations.

rd

Always some ppl just expect you to follow them verse them being convincing

Not defending jpop at all, but if he came on pinside and tried to apologize and explain things (if that's even possible)- his balls would of been cut off and roasted on an open flame.

So, Zidware customers get made whole and the Cubs win the world series, all in October 2016? Yes, then Hell would definitely have to freeze over too.

That's crazy and I feel sorry for anyone that was burned.

Was Marty McFly off by one year?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainthis/2015/10/16/film-back-to-the-future-predicted-cubs-2015-world-series-win/73899556/

Based on what I have heard about Jpoop's accounting system, I'd imagine he would have a hard time even coming up with a list of "rightful" MG owners after all this time. Those bar napkins have probably all run through the wash in the pocket of his pants by now.

Those napkins are as good as receipts

I.O.U. one Magic Girl.

I.O.U. one Magic Girl and one A.I.W.

I.O.U two RAZA

see, it's all there!

As long as I get the three machines I preordered I'll be happy.

Even if they make everyone whole and I pray to god they do... Giving them any preorder money after what's gone down is just stupid... Get finance at a bank tell me when the games ready to ship where to send my money... Anyone doing more then that is crazy

I don't see where American Pinball is going to be asking for pre-order money. Am I just missing it or is this speculation?