I was asking John for a refund on RAZA not so much out of inpatients but more because if apathy due to lack of progress at this point, maybe if the reveal is nice I would be more on board.

John never responded to my asking for a refund but he did invite me to visit him, however he never mentioned my query for a refund. These were in email not on the phone. But the disconnect is weird like I'm asking one thing and he's asking a completely opposite thing.

I almost feel like visiting him but almost I'm scared to as if I may not like what I'll see.

Anyone visited him? Is it worth the trip?

Every visit I've ever read has been glowing, the willy wonka tour, but I'm at the point where I could see incredible artistry but if there is no business aspect to show me, no deadlines, no answers, we're all essentially artist patrons.

I posted this on his blog:
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When can I, the customer, expect to see my game?
----

this part , "the customer", seems lost.

A friend of mine is in on RAZA and MG, he and his buddy visited JPOPS lair... All I can say is that the friend who was with him after seeing RAZA & MG got his checkbook out and tried to get in on both games.

I agree with Frolic. Sounds like a hefty dose of the magic Kool Aid, I'm scared to go, sounds like possibly the same stuff Bill Cosby was using. Visits seem to be leaving others dazed seeing some cool stuff planned for the games, to the point where you forget about the uncertain reality and the unanswered questions.

It's also possibly why we're in the situation we're in. All the visits to the shop drink the kool-aid and tell John to take as long as he needs, make as many revisions as he needs. He's probably been hearing that a long time.

I recently spoke with him. He was very friendly, I told him flat out I need out of the project and how can I get a refund and he said no problem he would send a letter of some sort to start the process... That was earlier this week. I just sent him an email reminder to send the letter.

I think others have chimed in already of this multi-step process, with no refund till someone takes your place.

All we can hope is that the MG and RAZA reveals will be public and generate some sort of buzz so people waiting for refunds can get out.

how does a letter work for a refund?

Sounds like the letter explains to you how jammed up you are. Has anyone else received one of these letters?

oh my goodness...

I received a letter from John concerning AIW this week. It included an invoice and some verbiage that was as confusing as ever concerning the next payment. I can't tell if he is trying to collect $0, $2000 or the remainder of the balance. For the record, I am interpreting it as $0. The attached letter also gives an address for a "secret" web page that is supposed to contain more info about the game. The website address just leads to a page with a line drawing of Alice and the words "Concept Preview" with nothing more. John updated the AIW dev blog three days ago with a long screed about the backglass design process and said that he would reveal the artwork the next day. Since then, nothing has been posted.

Also, for the record, I have never been asked to sign any kind of NDR for AIW.

I had heard of people sending in money for AIW, but I didn't realize that it was far enough along to have a development blog. I asked John three times to send me the AIW package so I could review it, but I never received it.

If John ever licenses a theme for a game, it should be "The Neverending Story".

I am seriously just blown away. Well, my hopes and wishes for everyone.

I also sent him my mailing address for the AIW info package and haven't received anything yet. Been about 3 weeks. He is probably focused on his upcoming reveals though, I don't think marketing AIW is high priority right now (and it shouldn't be).

P.S. there is supposed to be a AIW reveal in January so he will probably wait until after that to send out anything.

LOL. You made me spit soup on my desk!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

The only thing I have received from Zidware is a "you're on the MG waiting list" letter.

Unfortunately my bank can't cash that.

Noone in this forum has ever pissed me off but DO you ever shut your *mouth* dude? .. look back through this topic your posts are worse than Kanda guy.. for reals..

_{Post edited by moderator: Come on man, keep it classy. Don't result to offensive phrases like that.}

Not sure what you're talking about...I have not taught your mom how to post on Pinside .

Who is Noone?

Kiss pinball, Raza, AIW, MG, Makerbot - are there any other Zidware titles in progress with reveal dates over the next couple of months that I haven't included?

I also received the AIW letter this week , two separate mailings actually 1 day apart from each other and it was confusing to me as well in the first one I am told that I am AIW #71 and in the second one it tells me that my serial# is #51 ?? the second one also asked for another installment of $1000.00 & I don't feel comfortable sending it or any other $ until I see what happens with these two upcoming reveals I am still trying to be positive and keep the faith but IDK , I do plan to make a visit to his shop (per his invite) sometime early in the new year "2015" hopefully I will see something(s) encouraging & for the record I have never been asked to sign a NDA either

Who's got the cojones on AIW here at this point and give him additional funds? Iceman?? your sobering thread was a few hours ago..

A thousand here, a thousand there. Pretty soon you are talking about some real money. Just keep on betting on the come and soon you will be rewarded.

The Magic 8-Ball says, "I have my doubts."

But seriously, folks, how can anyone be anything but seething if you are $27k deep on the first 2 projects and he's out running around bragging up designs and chasing the benjamins on AIW? The stall tactics should be pretty obvious in less than 45 days. If MG and RAZA don't have major reveals by the end of January, you guys had better get your demand letters in before the ponzi collapses.

Something Tells Me I'm In To Something Good ...
http://peternoone.com/

I am waiting on the Tesla pin (game 4 ) to be announced so I can send in my down payment.

but would you write JPOP a check for $1k more for AIW right now like some people are claiming they are getting letters for? (or is this the first ask of money for AIW?)

I have been trying to keep that same attitude. Lately it has been tougher to do, almost entirely due to JPops unconscionable poor communication. On his blog, it's essentially crickets in response to repeated requests for updates on progress, status reports, potential timelines, or essentially anything else. That is no way to instill confidence in your buyers and potential future business. Hell JPop, at least get online and bullshit something rather than complete silence.

I hope that he's going to make a great presentation soon. I'm growing tired of seeing art drawings that have been presented over and over for a couple years now. I need to see a pinball machine. A pinball machine that has a chance of being in my game room. I'm hopeful that I will eventually see RAZA completed, but I'm not planning on investing in another Zidware project at this point.

All I can deduce from his unwillingness to answer these simple questions is the answers are not good and he doesn't want to say them.

We're probably onto something when we look at the Spooky build rate of 2/week as a benchmark. We're probably onto something when we see that the RAZA schedule is somewhere around the Q4 2012 timeline with a year+ left... BEFORE they start getting built.

I think the MG buyers are in a better place. They might see their game in 2015 with only the 20 to be built (not included the additional rumoured sales, but no one has money into those yet so no one is technically waiting for them).

I'm ready to throw something at my monitor every time a new art revision is posted and our questions ignored.

as I have always said. Artist unchecked. Revision are doom. Someone step on his neck and make thing move forward as is. Not improved, changed or modified. At some point you need to stop and make a call.

Apparently the game has 3,000 artist hours on it.

This pic was the game I originally pre-ordered though.

bhza-title.jpg

The quality of the new art is great, but at what cost? in both money and time? 2016/2017 for my game to arrive?

Is it taken with a fish eye lens?

Someone posted in a previous thread the artists name, I don't remember but he was from deviant art. Let's say even a modest $50/hr for a contract artist, that's still $150,000 in art for a single game. It's sounding more and more like we are screwed.

Since when were aliens added into this thing - wtf??? This was supposed to be zombies pin. If John morphed the theme and didn't tell his buyers, while holding their money hostage, he must be crazier than I thought. I was a RAZA buyer for awhile but bailed because it seemed too risky and I didn't have the stomach for it. I would have gotten out due to theme change alone though. Seeing pics of that cabinet at Expo I was totally disappointed. I like alien themes just fine, but RAZA started as a pure zombie theme. Then Stern scooped JPOP by releasing their own zombie pin. Unfortunately I'm not a fan of TWD pin as designed. Were JPOP to do a zombie pin, I'd be interested, but only when its available though.

I don't think he changed the theme on us. He made it clear it was a camp 50-60s type zombie theme and this video mentions aliens and ray guns.

Mg unveil only gives hope to the mg buyers... Then buys him time on raza buyers to cool their heals but u shouldn't be IMO. U should continue to push for details.

008SPR_Jackie_Earle_Haley_003.jpg

Right on, I only hope it was his play money and not a slush fund of all the deposits.

I had been very happy at one time to be on this RAZA list, but as time went by, less so.

I'm trying to figure out how far along this curve we are

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The burn is the lack of communication, and the avoidance of simple questions.

I don't know why every boutique pin manufacturer takes the same page from the same playbook and goes dark with the "well, I can either spend all day answering your questions or I can work on the pin, what do you want?". At least Jack when he was making WOZ was out there showing the work in progress, even if he was missing date after date.

With Hobbit is was always Dec 2014 release and if they don't make it, they're close to it, and everyone has seen the game and it has been playable at a few shows.

Y'all need to send in those AIW installments so GLM can get paid

I hate to say it, but I see people at pessimism, and you're going to slide to panic when it's becomes clear that nothing is actually going to be released and the green part of the curve isn't coming. My prediction: there isn't going to be a big "rug reveal" and nothing will be done or playable.

Everything I hear about what's really going on at Zidware just confirms that, but I could be totally wrong. I've heard nothing to make me think so though. I'd really like to see you guys see some hope, but hopefully at least no one is still sending him money.

And please, please don't even ask about AIW. I can't believe we're talking about getting info on that.

These timelines are very interesting to watch among all the manufacturers (except Stern). When will TBL be released? Everyone seems so positive that they know what they are doing, can do no wrong, and will deliver the pin on time. Why? They haven't manufactured a pin before.

Nordman just quit Heighway Pinball based on losing sleep over people putting down deposits based on him being the designer and being told Alien would be ready by April 2015, a date that he doesn't see as possible.

SkitB is already far behind schedule, and it remains to be seen when Predator will see the light of day.

MMr was supposed to be shipping by the end of the 2nd quarter, so they are already half a year behind.

It's going to be interesting to see how close to their shipping estimates pins like Alien, TBL, MMr, and even Hobbit will come.

I'm still trying to figure out why Skit-B needed more than half from every owner to get the ball rolling and that was more than 6 months ago. What the heck, AMH didn't need half from every owner and they are actually making the games.

At least I think MMR is just a small deposit, but in all honesty they should refund anyone who asks based on their missed timeline. Imo

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