I said before John is so bad that he actually makes Jack look good.

Jack is almost as clueless as John. Just read some of his rambling post, "the journey is the reward..." No you jack- the pin is the reward, I can give a flying f about the journey especially if it takes 3x longer than promised. I'm so glad I didn't pre-pay for any of JJPs games as I don't give a rats ass about the journey.

It's almost as if Jack is using John to deflect or defend his own poor track record of delivering pins in a timely manner.

Jack could have and should have just posted an account of his visit to jpop, what he saw, and why he took a pass.

They obviously found sympathy for each other in talking because both are getting new ones torn on pinside, and I think that clouded Jack's view of things.

But John is so toxic, for many reasons including drawing $7500 a month for 4 years from our money while delivering nothing, it was foolish to defend him at all, and certainly foolish to attack the customers who were ripped off.

I have a new name for Jack and it starts with Jack and end with ss.

I just read the whole letter, he's blaming negative posts for John's failure. Not blaming John who made promise after promise, who brought empty cabinets to Expo and instead of saying he was embarrassed by his lack of progress, John instead picks apart the other botique manufactures cabinet vents. Jack should spend more time worrying about shipping his games and less time defending John. IMO.

Jack actually has the gaul to say those who invested in John "you got what you paid for" WTF? no they didn't they paid for a pinball machine, they paid for a pinball machine, not for the journey they paid for a flipping pinball machine and John didn't even make one that was able to work after 3-4 years and a million dollars collected.

Is there any new news on the jpop front?

Umm, has anyone visited the AIW blog lately? He really is continuing to work on it (and this is the 3rd title with the first 2 unfinished??). What is his rationalization? AIW is the most likely title he can license to another company because RAZA and MG are originals? Or is this to make himself look competent in front of the judge?
http://www.pinballinventor.org/feed_aiw.html
AIW_blog_JPOP.jpg

GOOD LORD!!! Those updates are from this past month... POST Pintasia failure. He is LITERALLY playing pinball arts & crafts to this day. What a freaking moron. No words....

He's unable to complete MG, unable to complete RAZA, and goes back to playing with foam core and early design for the 3rd game because that is all what he knows to do. This is beyond comprehension.

Likely all part of the legal defense. Since he was taking money post the eminent failure of MG and RAZA (while he was already in negotiations with Pintasia) he is trying to provide proof that new funds taken were for AIW. It is all part of his scam. Everything he does now is part of a legal show and likely advised by his lawyer in some sick way.

It is sick.

I can sense a skit-b defense, that the games are still "possible" and moving forward.

I thought this thread was over, but Jack just drop kicked it back to life, what possible benefit is it for Jack attach himself to the scum of the earth?

Yea I remember reading this blog post and thinking... You have got to be shitting me John! You offerd to "consult other boutique manufacturers because you have time"?...I was so pissed when I read that post I couldn't see straight

Rofl this Jack!

Compilation of his post;
"People must be honored that jpop burned there money to design new shit! "

You've been going to the wrong places.

Yeah, I love this line:

In this case I would “quit” pinball making forever and give everyone a hammer to beat me if I showed this in public.

So burning through $1MM of collector's money and not delivering a single game or having a finished prototype is OK, but someone bootstrapping a game and showing a playable prototype at expo with unpainted vent holes is worthy of violence and career ending shame.

At least whoever these guys were, at least they had a 'production ready' sample

Looks like John is still in the same workshop.

Sorry for being clueless. Where is the letter? Not in a pinside post from JerseyJack, right?

the letter was posted in the JJP forum a couple weeks ago.

Check fantasygoat's post here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6mg-raza-and-aiw%E2%80%A6/page/325#post-2554189

So is the speculation that Jack took pre-order money from The Hobbit to finish building WoZ and thats why he can't deliver The Hobbit?

Of course that's what happened.

Lol at John, he learned a lot in 33 years in the industry, unfortunately how to finish a pin was not one of the things he learnd. At WMS he had people who built the games he just worked on the PF, well news flash John, you're no longer at Williams.

Post number 16239 on this thread.

image.jpg

So according to Jack, poor, poor, JPop.. it was "negative posts" that caused his downfall? WTF? Doesn't anybody take any frickin responsibility for stuff?

There are posts all over the Internet with JPop telling people how hard it is to design pinball games and how much resources are needed. He knew from day one what he was doing. He may live in a fantasy world where money grows on trees, but he occasionally poked his head out of the weeds to lecture other people on how he was more experienced than they.

It's getting harder and harder to believe what anybody says in this industry the way they all circle their wagons and accuse their own customers of being the persecutors.

So y'all remember, it's not their fault they didn't deliver what they promised. It's our fault because we had the audacity to complain about it. It's our fault we found questionable issues with backroom deals and business associates with dubious, criminal pasts. How dare we question what's behind that curtain? We destroyed JPop's life! We shoulda just kept giving him more more money, and never complain, but we screwed up!

I saw the same thing. VERY odd that JJP is defending JPop. If JJP is solvent and capable, why would he be defending someone who wasn't? The first thing I'd be saying is, "Sorry about what happened to JPop but he, unlike my company, didn't have a plan and didn't have the proper resources to take products to market."

If anyone wants to see how Hard it is to make pinball, and on their own dime, may I refer you to the Nightmare Before Christmas thread, seems you don't need to work for a major pinball company in the past to get sh*t done

Here is the letter from Jersey Jack for those that missed it:

JPOP Thoughts
19 Jun
Jersey Jack
"My personal opinions:
This is the JJP Forum but there is obvious spillover as it's all Pinball.
JJP was able to start because you, the loyal customer base of PBSC believed first in me and then in the Team and in what we were doing. You bought into a dream, an idea, a hope and ultimately a game(s).
The Pre-Pay crowd-funded model seemed good. Get money, build games. We all know that road was and is littered with land mines and huge chasms. Not everyone can navigate them and yes the Journey is The Reward and all that.
We have learned a lot and we have much to still learn. This is a marathon and not a sprint and it's not for everyone, obviously.
About six weeks ago at his invitation I visited JPOP at his studio. I don't know John. I've never said more than a few words at shows where I saw him. I like the games he has designed and like everything in this industry, it has many stories and many twists and turns.
When I was there I was impressed at what I saw. Though I felt a bit blinded by what appeared to be a "game" Magic Girl was to me, a "Box of Lights" and I mean that in a very respectful way. I myself had paraded a box of lights around in June of 2012 at E3 and NW Pinball but that was a different kinder and gentler time when hope sprung eternal.
Still John had MG in some place where it could be a game if the right amount of time, expertise, money and magic was applied, this could be a good game perhaps. But it was not ready to be played, shot on or shown as a near finished product.
My friend Bill called me to discuss his best efforts to revive or to save this dream that John had. Bill is a wonderfully hopeful guy that had every good intention. In the process he subjected himself to public ridicule, humiliation, scrutiny and all at the cost of over $100,000 to his wallet. His associate was likewise skewered in public by the angry mob and even the few hopeful, hapless know it all armchair experts that do nothing and have never done anything worthwhile.
It made for great drama and great reading on the forum. After all bad news sells newspapers and good news, well.... zzzzzzz. So, Bill went on his Mission which became Mission Impossible. Nobody can step into this fray or in front of a moving train and survive.
I read most of the posts and I spent some hours talking with John. Is he a genius or a moron? Is he a diabolical thief or a bad businessman? Did he intend to defraud or was it a bad plan of events? He knows and he must look himself in the mirror. I believe he is a good designer and a bad businessman. I do not believe his intent was ever anything other than to deliver the best most innovative game he could design. The guy redesigned leg bolts! I mean who makes PC boards Purple? Waste of money or Passion??
He got way ahead of himself. I asked him - John - If you had a house with ten rooms and enough paint to finish one room, why would you try and paint all ten rooms? He did Magic Girl, Zombie, Kiss, Alice...what else.....years of passion, blood, sweat and tears of his life to do this. Pinball is (or was) John's life. He did it for you, those who believed in him. He did not intend this to happen, it happened because of poor planning, because of negative posts cutting off and panicking his buyers. Because he was too secretive and not communicating in a broad sense....who knows - all of this is my guess...I don't have the facts of the financial or anything else. It's just what it appears to me personally and not commentary on behalf of JJP.
John is a mere Mortal like all of us. He is flesh and blood and has feelings. He has a wife and kids and they have feelings too. Those who "invested" in him - well - you got what you paid for. You got to be on the roller coaster ride of ups and downs. You got to be an insider and an outsider. You had the money to burn for a big toy that nobody needs and that money got burned alright. It was used to fund a startup, most all of which fail in the first formative years as perhaps John's may have.
You already have received your pound of flesh and if you truly cared about Pinball all of you would have rallied as a group to help the poor guy figure out what he has and what could be saved if it was possible. Instead, the lynch mob storms the castle with pitchforks and torches. Hang the guy, so what satisfaction is that. He did his best and maybe his best was not good enough but it was his best. Done.
Next, who knows what happens, that's a legal thing. Sue him or not. Forgive and forget or hold a grudge and let it consume you. Live and Let Live.
The guy and his family have suffered enough, really, he has. He is out of Pinball. Aside from his family that was the thing in life he loved most. Bigger things have failed and smarter better funded people have failed. John is not a failure, his company is a failure.
I feel bad for the people who lost money and I feel bad for John and especially feel bad for Pinball in general."

I'll bet the JJP private group praised Jack for such an insightful letter! Love to see some of their replies.

The way it's written sounds a bit like a prelude.

Option 1 isn't a stretch imo and it is/was always a possibility with any small company, but based on his post I doubt Jack will be clamoring to pay back pre-order customers if the walls do come crumbling down.

It seems his opinion is similar to that of JPop and SkitB in that the customers for some reason aren't entitled to their money back since they "know the risk".

he should have just stopped right there.

nice.... now 'were getting some prime Jack.... "all the pinside critics have never done anything worthwhile"

Amazing jack has the time to keep up with EVERYONE elses accomplishments to make this statement...

So, after admitting he doesnt know the guy, he *IS* able to determine his intent? Pretty impressive.

eh, you forgot about the part where he was housed and salaried during this "arduous blood/sweat/tears ordeal" So, lets be fair, "he did it" for a salary and all expenses paid gig... He risked OTHER PEOPLES MONEY.... not his....(sound familiar?)

There it is! The reason for jack to wade into this shitnado- to blame pinside for Jpops failure! Of course! The damn critics! Waiting for him to coin a new phrase "PInside Mafia"

TH "investors" - please take note...

"Pound of flesh"? I think the folks burned would rather have their MONEY BACK, not a pound (or ounce) of flesh.

<group hug>

Wow....just wow....

But he loses a lot by blaming the victims and insulting the community for holding John accountable. Sours me on doing further business with him.

Nah, had to scare them too seeing how Jack views things. They may not have voiced it but that response scared me.

There were quite a few, "you tell 'em, Jack" posts if memory serves. I remember thinking how can people be so willing to cult follow when I was reading their approving posts.

Cult_of_Jack.jpg

Ever since others joined Stern in manufacturing pins, Pinside has become such a place of drama. It's like a train wreck any more.

I sure love the idea of multiple manufacturers, but at the expense of all this drama/money lost, etc? Not so sure...

This whole thread and situation makes me wanna.... ah nevermind.

stewie.jpg

I have to disagree with this. There was a whole bunch of folks who reached out to John to try to help, over a long period of time. Experienced business people and project mangers. He refused to listen. You can't help someone who refuses to accept the help. Clearly he wanted a white knight to come in and give him money so he continue with the status quo, which was never going to work. Unless he was willing to change how he was doing things, he was not going to succeed. Bill tried to do what you suggest, and walked away and rightfully so from what we have seen and learned.

The lynch mob on pinside did not lead to his failure, his ego and stubbornness did.

I like turtles. Blaming victims not so much.

This leads me to thinking...

or

Nobody is getting "beat up" really, the game wasn't "done" by the time the movie came out, so...

All companies get just desert on this site and nobody has been really given a lot unjust heat overall.

Is Jack saying "The journey of being overly anxious is the reward for pre-order pinball"?.

Sometimes it's best to just not say anything about other businesses in your field.

Can't help thinking there needs to be more of this if in charge of a company.

18diary.jpg

The reaction to the letter was very mixed.
I replied and it certainly wasn't supportive of anyone other than those that had lost money. I looked to find the thread but couldn't find it.

Because he doesn't want the market overtaken with the idea of extra scrutiny or concerns that vendors are unscrupolous... which would continue to hurt his ability to draw money out of people.

"Pinball company fails..." is far less damning to the open market than "Pinball companies are scams" floating around

... and furthering the idea that the mob-mentality Pinside is part of the "problem" and actually causes harm suits Jack's position as well.

My guess is... his lawyer has advised him to keep cranking out progress reports so it doesn't look like his primary attempt was to defraud people. It's very clever. Especially given his customers have been so emasculated they're unwilling to lobby for criminal charges. What a shame. People keep calling JPop an idiot, but it's turning out that he's smarter than his customers. If he took my money, I'd be calling the Illinois Attorney General every day until they launched an investigation.

Never expected to hear anything from Jack like this. Downplaying the whole situation and pretending that John is the victim here. What a f** asshole.

It is hilarious that Jack is comparing JPOP to a "startup" or "crow funding" thing. Or that the customers were actually "investors". Did we miss something 4 years ago that Jack knew ? I cant seem the recall that JPOP ever said " your deposit on MG isnt for a pinball! its actually to fund my company, but no, you get no share! There might be a small chance of you ever getting a pinball machine. "

Or when he announced the other 2 games and gladly took peoples money did he tell "oh wait, i have run out of money and there is zero chance of MG. A normal company would now tell the investors ( oh ha i aint got those) that the money is gone and we need another funding round. But not me! No, I will announce 2 others games to lure customers in and to finance the MG ! Ha, isn't this great !! ".

A company seeking investors is at least honest ; for x money you get x share and with any startup there is chance of failure. If JPOP had the balls to admit it from the start that it was a risk investment then sure, the investors (not customers!) took equal risk. But JPOP never told the fucking truth and kept luring in customers long after he KNEW no machines would be ever made. Thats not a startup, thats an asshole ripping people off. Sure, looking back it was a big risk, but don't come here and tell JPOP is a honest businessman.

What bothers me even more is that Jack is saying the customers and JPOP had an equal share of risk or blame, call it what you want. No Jack, they didn't because JPOP never told the truth from day one.

^^^^^^

Above Quote from JJP's letter...

Popapuke didnt suffer at all !

he grabbed 90K Per year, while producing nothing, and fed his kids ribeye every night...

Paid all of his bills at home... car payments, taxes, victoria secret for the wife.... WTF !... til everyones money ran out..

Popapuke = Criminal !

The drama is focused around competition for limited-run games and delivery expectations for prepaid games (the latter being a necessary offshoot of the former). Remove limited editions and prepayments and Pinside drama would be replaced with fun speculation about the next titles being built.

There were signs something was screwed up from day one. Requiring customers to sign a non-disclosure and non-disparagement agreement? To buy a pinball machine?

The writing was on the wall that something was way off. And now seeing the prototypes, what's there that was so secret? Woo Hoo. He designed a new cabinet that is less-functional and more expensive than the one the industry uses. Hold the stampede of other companies rushing to copy it! Look! Magnets! He's got magnets everywhere! Wow, who woulda thought??

Even as he cranks out AIW progress reports, looks like he ripped off Pat Lawlor's TZ battle-the-power mini-playfield.

And now JJP is apologizing for JPop? This industry gets weirder and weirder.

Meanwhile Gary Stern is probably laughing his ass off, building an underwater secret lair complete with laser beam death rays...