I have a feeling he was AT work 20 hours a day, 7 days a week. "working" is a relative word. My guess is most of his day was spent either reviewing artwork to make sure it all looked perfect, or staring blindly in the air hoping a revolutionary mechanism would come to him. In the end, he ended up re-hashing his old mechanisms (take the ball cage and lower screen from CV, take the tiger saw from TOM and rotate it horizontally, take the up-post from space shuttle because that was originally supposed to be in TOM but williams wouldn't let me keep it in). About the only somewhat innovative thing I saw him do was that multiple magnasave on the left outlane that randomly saved the ball or let it drain. There WAS going to be something somewhat innovative with that center spinner (no nevermind, that was stolen from CV too), but his communication trailed off so it never went anywhere.

apparently he's a CROOK !

Took other peoples money, lived like a high roller on their money...

And stole their money...

he should be found criminally responsible for his actions, or the lack thereof !

That doesn't make sense either, because an investor would want to see a finished game. As many homebrewers have shown, making a game isn't THAT hard.

It's beyond our comprehension as to John's motives as most of us deal in the realm of logic, reasoning and accountability.

That doesn't make sense either, because an investor would want to see a finished game. As many homebrewers have shown, making a game isn't THAT hard.

Let's face it - John's motives cannot be fathomed by the majority of people who deal in the realm of logic, reasoning and accountability.

I tried Ben...it was hard..

It may not be technically criminal, but its dishonest and sleazy to lie to your customers about it. Actually, wait...how is it not criminal to lie to your customers about making the game? How is it not criminal to solicit for more money AFTER knowing he's out of funds and never going to make a game? How is it not criminal to spend deposits on Kiss, an EM, pussycat bowling, AIW, etc, etc? How is it not criminal to pay yourself a grossly inflated salary for YEARS while producing next to nothing? ALL of this stuff is criminal in my book...whether or not it is seen that way by the judicial system is another story I guess, but JPOP IS A CRIMINAL.

After many hours of reading I think I would sum it up this way:
ZIDWARE =
Zero
Integrity
Dousche
With
A
Raging
Ego

Is Jpop 'criminally ingame'? He needs to go to a pinball asylum, where inmates walk around, bouncing off the walls, thinking up 'new' mechanisms and machines, and getting each other to sign NDAs in case they 'make it big' on the outside.

I shouldn't laugh, as I've lost a lot of money, but well the whole situation is wacky, right? Totally Jpop.

Definition for 'Taking too long and costing too much to finish a project, in the vain hope a rich patron will buy you out to make your fortune'- 'Jpopping'.

I'm sure it's hard. But I'm also sure that even someone who knows absolutely nothing about pinball design or manufacturing could build a single fully realized protytpe if they were given a million bucks and four years to do it. John couldn't even accomplish this. It truly boggles the mind.

Five months ago, FatAussieBogan gave the best explanation of JPop's "workday" we're every likely to see:

True

This was too funny to read this morning on Facebook...Pm'd the guy and he got paypal payment for it. wtf?

jpopcard.PNG

Pic of the card from the original post.

businesscard.jpg

Wow. I have Cameron Silver's WMS business card. Wonder if I should auction THAT off? I mean, he did (still does?) good work!

skit-b-blinders.jpg

Ha ha.. You think JPop is the only source of income/resources in that family? Have you guys done any freakin' research at all into who you're dealing with?

By the way, just because somebody lives in a big house, doesn't mean they pay a mortgage. Just because someone drives a nice car, doesn't mean they bought it themselves. And even if they have nice stuff like that, it doesn't mean they have the cash flow to go out and regularly buy high-dollar stuff. Some people in start-ups may have nice places because they previously invested well. If I pour all my time and cash into a startup, it doesn't mean I also have to live in a tiny house. It just means I'm not going to use the start-up's capital to live large. I may have income and resources from other avenues available. This is very common. Y'all need to realize that not everybody structures their life and personal assets the way you do. Some do it worse, and some do it better.

Has anyone asked why you give 500 to this lawyer guy as well as 25% of any recovery? If john goes into chapter 7 there would be a judge or court appointed trustee to make sure, given the exact same circumstances, everyone has time to submit what they paid in and all (if any) recovered would be pro rata back anyway.

It's too bad LinkedIn doesn't have a "FRAUD" skill. I'm sure there are several hundred people who would easily vouch for John and his wife's expertise in that area.

I am going to go out on a limb here and think perhaps you don't have much "start-up" experience. If you're the PRINCIPAL in a start up, salary is not the motivation nor the need. The shares in the company are the real value. In a case like Zidware, where the ONLY material assets they had was the pre-order money, it's abso-F'ing-lutely INSANE and STUPID to draw such a huge salary. That pretty much guaranteed the games were never going to be made unless John planned to climb a giant beanstalk and pick from a money tree in the clouds.

This is the reason you don't pull a ridiculous salary in a start-up: It can keep the company from accomplishing its objectives! If you need $7500 a month to pay your bills, then you should NOT be in a start-up!

This whole situation is beyond incompetent.

It would be years before John decides to go into voluntary bankruptcy, if ever.

anybody got a picture of JPOOP's wife... ?

I saw that and added the one I got.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/michelle-popadiuk/49/b67/473

So then what you are saying is only one person should spend 500 and 25% of any recovery to bring this to him not everyone?

http://www.drescherlaw.com/library/creditor-s-rights-capture-a-debtor-s-value-by-forcing-an-involuntary-bankruptcy.cfm

IANAL and I just picked that Google result randomly, but it sure sounds like it would be easy to force Zidware into involuntary bankruptcy (and that's what I'd be doing if I was a customer, rather than pursuing a civil case.)

This is what i am starting to think ^ JPOP is in denial my guess is that he won't BK until he has no other choice... The guy still seems to think he is gunna build games. Maybe John and Kevin could combine forces... Skit B/Zidware = SKITWARE??

What is your point, Bill? I understand the process and probabilities.

Not everybody is cut out to be an entrepreneur. It's a very stressful, often thankless job. And every entrepreneur needs other people who are just "worker bees" which are absolutely necessary to make the venture succeed. Any good leader will tell you it's not about them; it's about their people, the vision. So don't feel like a failure. If you work somewhere, you're part of that machine that makes things work. It's unfortunate our society doesn't place as much emphasis on the workers because they're more important than the figureheads usually.

I'm really curious what amazingly/special/unique skill a "pinball designer" has?

At this point Ben Heck has probably designed as many pinball machines as John Papadiuk.

And Ben probably has 20x the depth of skillsets JPop has.

So what exactly makes him such a rare commodity? What can JPop do that anyone else here cannot?

I can pull up a CAD program and design a playfield, and then move things around.

I can bat a ball around on a whitewood and say, "let's put a pop bumper over there and a flipper up there."

I can dictate a ruleset.

Almost anyone in this forum, if they had the resources traditional designers had at their fingertips: software people, dot matrix designers, mechanical engineers, art departments, etc. could also design a pinball machine.

So exactly what special unique ability do these three dozen people have? Enquiring minds want to know.

John can "visualize the pinball in 3d".

I do own my own business. It is a family business that was owned by my Grandfather who raised me. I worked with him after college and he left it to me. It is a small car dealership, a buy here pay here sort of thing. I would love to turn it into something larger and more impressive but I never seem to be able to make myself stick my neck out. I'm kind of stuck where I am because of fear of losing what I have. As I said, I am not poor but I will never be rich unless I stick my neck out there. Don't think I'm doing the poor me thing, I just have huge admiration for people like Backflipper who saw the dream, stuck his neck out and made it happen and I wish I had the guts to do the same.

Yeah, I'm surprised that nobody has *ever* considered this point or raised it before in this thread!!!

I also previously mentioned that I think the retainer is very reasonable. $500.00 is basically paying for about an hour and half of attorney work based on a $300.00 hourly rate (that is actually a bit on the low side out here, and I'd think it wouldn't be any cheaper in Chicago). You aren't going to get an attorney to take this solely on a contingency basis as this is a contractual dispute and admittedly the chances of recovery are not high. So again, this retainer is a reasonable balance in my opinion.

No, he didn't say that at all.

If only one person sued, JPop could refund that one person resulting in settlement of the lawsuit and no filing of Bankruptcy...basically getting to keep other people's money.

You already tried to strongarm people in to not suing by threatening them with nothing unless they turned around a legal document agreeing not to sue within a couple days.... it didn't work.

Or.. you should just try reading the other posts where I speak exactly to the topic of burn rate/runway/etc and why taking that kind of money has its consequences.

The posts justifying 90k as a principle for the company were about the role_ - not just the role in a startup. You won't win any criminal proceedings arguing he was embezzling with 'its a startup.. he shouldn't be allowed to be paid that much' if the expenses are in line with market values.

The long and the short of it is that lawyers who get paid tend to do better work.

Besides, it is a less expensive option for most than flying out there for small claims if (big if) they somehow got all their money back, and less hassle.

Oh you're right... it's so trivial a chimp could find success in that business. In fact, the world seems overflowing with past successful game studio leads. You basically just trivialized every profession out there with that mindset.

I guess it's just dumb luck on what games and companies succeed. How did any of us ever miss that?

Lets get real here please. There are dozens of pinball guys that would love to be back in the making pinball business at 60k and be grateful. John should have taken the 60k, but he was too proud. Pride before the fall, actually. John now needs any job at 10k, 20k whatever - (hell, $10 x 2000 hours a year would be 20k). its insulting if he doesn't, because he should be digging ditches, waiting tables, I don't care if he worked on the space shuttle - he needs 3 jobs, and every penny should go to paying back what wasn't his to being with. He should have to fund his own design and development time the past 4 years, by paying back everyone who helped fund it , but got nothing in the end.

Larry is a damn good business man. You produce value, and you get paid. John didn't produce, he shouldn't get paid. Simple.

Well then, time to put all this posting wisdom and energy into the pinball business of Flynntasia. Walk with me.... When are you hiring 4-5 guys at 90k and year and showing us your first whitewood. What's the theme and price point? Who's financing it? = unless you start making those kind of posts, your repetitiveness is worthless. If you can blow $500k a year on salaries, and make 500 games, starting tomorrow, selling at $6k - $5k bill of materials, so the $1k x 500 cover just your annual salaries - go for it. Who pays for the shop, tools, rent, and healthcare? Oops, the games now cost $8k. How about a little profit and some extra for the design kitty for game 2? Oops, charge $10k.

You keep saying you or Jpop can do that? Build pinballs? at a profit? Profit, you keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means. ... your model says 500 at 10k, and can't deliver.

Oh yeah, that pesky uncomfortable truth - Spooky builds 150 games a year, at $6k and makes it work.

And.... that's the essential problem with the crowd-sourced and/or pre-order business model. Produce first, then get paid. Not, Get paid, then produce. You know, if you feel like it and the stars align and all that.

When sites like Kickstarter first came along the very first question that came to mind was "What if they don't do the thing you're paying them to do?" Everybody acts like it's some sort of guarantee.

"They say if they don't build it, they refund your money." UM...HOW??

I don't know about the rest of you but I learned this lesson back in the seventh grade when I paid a classmate $5 to swipe one of his dad's porn tapes and I didn't get the tape or my money back.

I can't help but wonder why Bill continues to dissuade anyone from suing John.

And some are patented.

So your saying JPop should have offered Gary 60k per year and Ritchie 90k a year b/c he's a great designer?

It's the $500.00 retainer that is throwing him for a loop. Too rich for his blood.

Anybody know where the MG prototype is?

Backflip - here's an even easier comparison for our slow-to-learn pinsider: Larry and Eugene invented Defender, and got paid as consultants per game. JPop did nothing. Any questions?

This thread is taking a turn for the especially stupid bizarre now.

You don't have to start a pinball business to critique one. I get it, people don't want to hear what flynnibus has to say. John overpaid himself, blah blah. Obviously his business was a colossal failure, no one is disputing that his decisions were asinine. But we're talking about a lawsuit here, and it's simply not illegal to pay yourself a salary. Is it that simple? No, of course not. Focusing on that one details misses the trees.

And for whatever faults John has (and there are plenty) no one questioned that he could design a pinball machine when they started throwing thousands of dollars at him. This notion that "lol anyone can just load up CAD" is ridiculous. It's like saying anyone can pick up a pencil and draw. Anyone can fire up Photoshop and design. Sure. And some people might be more talented than they realize and just never tried. And the rest will discover it's more difficult than they thought.

I don't think Bill is trying to dissuade people from suing John, I think he is trying to explain how this will likely play out. Anyone who sues John for breach of contract can win the case because the breach is clear and John has no defense at all. The person suing then has a piece of paper at the courthouse saying Zidware owes him money. That person then can begin proceedings to collect on his judgment from Zidware assets and possibly John's personal assets.

At any time in the proceedings, John can file bankruptcy which will result in any legal action being put on hold. Zidware will file a list of creditors with the court and they will be given notice to make claims. Zidware will also file lists of assets and liabilities and the bankruptcy court will decide how to handle the assets to pay the liabilities.

Zane intends to go after John's personal assets, but that is not an easy thing to do. It typically involves significant amounts being paid to forensic accountants. Although Zane may pay these costs, they have to be re-paid from any recovery along with the costs of the bankruptcy. Zane will have to litigate in the bankruptcy court whether or not the Zidware bankruptcy prevents the litigants from proceeding against John personally.

I think that what Bill is saying is that you really only need enough suits for John to file bankruptcy. Then, everyone can file claims with the bankruptcy court. Given that the bankruptcy distribution will be pro rata and applejuice is owed five figures and Cointaker is owed six figures, there likely will not be much left to pay the people who sent Zidware money to buy games.

At this point it looks as though no Answer has been filed to the Complaint by either Zidware or JPop himself. Looks like the case is heading towards a Default Judgment, and that would include a Judgment against Zidware and JPop and his wife personally. That would mean JPop and his wife would have to file for personal bankruptcy to avoid paying the Judgment or collection efforts. I'm a bit surprised by this to be honest. Who knows, maybe he knew he kept shit records and didn't follow the corporate formalities and therefore piercing the corporate veil was probable, so he just decided not to fight it? Who knows?