Actually RotorDave is a WELL respected pinhead worldwide and if he says something is true then it is. It is as good as fact even if he was nice enough to redact the pinsiders real name.

I personally know another pinhead whom has an email from Jpop ~6weeks ago telling him that a RAZA spot was available and sent him info for payment. I also am not going to reveal the persons name as it if obvious that some of the supporters here will go to great lengths.

Over and over last night iceman kept saying this here, in the jpop thread, while posting in the skitb thread. And then he attacked TBL, which he has money in neither. So, yeah... People are welcome to state this as their opinion but in the end if you enjoy pinball crap like this impacts everyone.

Has nothing to do with "RotorDave" and you know it. It was just an anonymous letter sent to him. Might have been to just stir things up.
That's what people do btw.

I think with your inherent lack of credibility (sorry dude that's the truth) I will simply ignore your second piece of "evidence".

If a "real" person DID send this message then let them stand up and say it. Who would it hurt if Joe XX says Zidware wanted their money just recently?? Still probably wouldn't prove anything but you guys are the ones screaming about "no secrets".

If "no secrets" is good for the Bill deal then it should also be good for any accusations. Real simple.

You are wrong . Ask RotorDave. Or even better , contact John Popadiuk now and ask to sign up for AIW . We have evidence he is still attempting to victimize additional pinheads. We have ZERO evidence he has stopped. He has not even claimed to have stopped taking in money , that is just unsubstantiated rumor with no evidence. All evidence points to him continuing the scam.

I'm not "wrong" at all. Without any actual real people saying this there really no "proof". Personally I think it's quite possible but I get tired of reading these rants with no actual names, evidence, etc...

"No secrets" remember...?

Presumably RD has seen the emails directly from jpop. If not they are available according to the emailer. Either way,
What about this whole situation and jpops actions make this unbelievable for you? You are tired of "rants with no proof" and yet the allegations are all proving true time and time again. Number one reason to believe it is that jpop already sunk the project himself, nobody has to lie to go after him.

Your post was well thought out. Unfortunately it stemmed from one premise. That's the minimum BOM being $10k or maybe $20k. I believe the BOM can be reduced to around $5k once several of the parts are standardized. So redo your entire logic based on that and you can see a feasibility of a game getting completed and being profitable.

I never said it was "unbelievable" at all. Quite the opposite if you actually read what I wrote.

At least you admit they are allegations... THAT was my only point. Ranters shouldn't say there is "evidence" until real, verifiable people
can prove it. You want proof in the Bill deal - then provide it when it goes the other way. I think what I'm saying is simple to understand and I'm the last guy to support JP.

Besides like you say... he's proven himself to be a bit of scumbag (can I say that here?) and took all your money. Why argue about THIS
point? Seems par for the course.

What is it going to cost to re-engineer the game? How many magnets and mechs are you taking out? What is the cost of your manufacturer?

You can't replace that combined magnet/ball popper with standard parts. Is that part of the BOM calculation of $5K?

What else can't be replaced without major redesign?

Call JPOP and have a check ready for $16,000. Don't miss out!

how are personal attacks like this tolerated?

when I got the boot for much less...

Well that WOULD clear up whether he's still taking orders Just make sure you stop the check in a couple hours.

I don't know if deeproot is still actively following this monster thread, so I'll address the following question to others here...

What was it about the deeproot proposal that people didn't like?

a) All vendors paid by June 2015.
b) All presales refunded by Feb 2016 for those that chose to not accept delivery.

Was it simply a question of viability? People just didn't believe it would happen? Or did Popadiuk or someone else torpedo the deeproot deal?

Perhaps if there was some real price competition between the interested "licensees" or "buyers", then all of the creditors would have benefited?

I believe deeproot's plan was to buy Zidware outright rather than just a license, and the egomaniac control freak didn't like that.

Not a personal attack at all. In fact I didn't want to embarrass you any further about your behavior in the Pred thread so I kept it simple but accurate. Shouting people down, repeatedly LOUDLY stating "the license is a done deal people! what's your problem?"... etc... even when they were questioning the web wipe - this stuff might JUST affect your credibility.

So to see you now over here ranting yet again just rubs me the wrong way. I suppose I should have simply put you on "ignore" as you remind me of the RGP-style posters that I wanted to get away from. I've never used the ignore and didn't want to but realize that may have been the way to go.

Live and learn.

Sorry you must have missed where I repeatedly apologized for continuing to cheer on that project and not waking up to the signs sooner that it was dead in the water.

More likely I am guessing you saw my apologies and just took the low road like you often do and wanted to take the cheapest shot you could. How was it you planned to embarrass me?

I have no problem owning my faults.

Manic and Whysnow, take it to PM please or better yet, both drop it.

For what it is worth I believe Rotordave's email. It looked like JPop's weirdo writing style. Not sure that matters at this point.

How about just giving this guy the needed time out for his personal attacks?

Then we can get back to discussing how it appears Jpop has very recently still been soliciting money from people, even after he was in negotiations to sell the IP.

It's not really fair to compare WhySnow 1.0 (early Skit-B thread) to WhySnow 2.0 (current Popadiuk thread). This is the updated model.

you are being generous. It is more like v1.21.

Still in need of polish most days.

Thanks

The email was given to me by a well respected person in pinball circles, he was the one who emailed asking about AIW.

We discussed it first in person. He showed me the email on his phone. Straight from the source. For obvious reasons, he didn't want to post it here so I offered to.

It was 1000% genuine I can assure everyone. That's 10x 100%. So it's gotta be genuine.

I will not disclose his identity, please don't ask me to do so. Just rest assured, it is genuine.

rd.

I should have hit "ignore" a while back. That's my fault.

I just see him back to ranting as usual and if you describe his recent behavior... it's the "low road". Not sure why accurately describing someone's behavior is a bad thing. I didn't drag up any of the posts... that's what I meant by embarrassing someone.

But then to cry "Mommy" to the mods... lol

OK I hit ignore... sorry to anybody and PS that was bothered.

You've reported what you view as a personal attack. It is under advisement and we will see what another mod says.

An action either will be taken or will not be taken. Manic certainly does not to appear to be in any meltdown at the moment so if he follows instructions and drops the discussion point I see no need to boot him at this moment, pending a second mod looking at the back and forth.

I agree, you've apologized repeatedly for Predator and there is no need to keep hammering you on it. That said, some people are going to feel awkward with you taking strong positions on highly heated matters such as this for a little while. I think you should expect it for a little while.

Anyway, the last thing this thread needs is more drama. So please take it to pm or just drop it.

Farts. Hot farts to be exact.

Wow, according to that letter if you bought either of the other two machines you're really getting burned.

My entire point being that if they can't be built with zero more dollars coming from buyers then they should not be made. Otherwise you just end up with a big pyramid scheme with even more buyers (if not 100% of them) getting screwed.

Right, and the problem stems from the fact that the original $300k (19*16k) would never have fully funded the build in the first place. This situation was almost inevitable from the outset. The question now is it worth going forward with an expanded production number to get it built or let it die?

I'm still trying to understand why the effort is "finish MG at any cost"? Is it simply because it was assumed to be the closest to completion?

If it's indeed the game with the LEAST number of people "invested"- why not survey the group and determine if it's even worth throwing more time and money at?

Obviously MG isn't "shovel ready", so if it's going to take a major redesign, perhaps it's actually NOT the best machine to build? I mean, once you look past the nice artwork, the game seemed unremarkable.

Are RAZA and/or AIW even on the radar for prototypes?

One hundred dollars! What kind if question is that? If they want to sell more of them the BOM must come down. The reengineering costs are peanuts compared to what Jpop has collected. At least the guy pointed out something fresh and insightful in this boondoggle thread. I swear I think it might have been better if Bill never took on this project.

Bingo!

Bill taking on the project is a distraction of the real problem-JPOP. He should have waited for the BK AND PURCHASED THE LICENSE LATER. He then could have offered some credits to all purchasers and would look like a hero.

Yes, but then Bill might be bidding vs other interested parties.... I assume he chose the timing very deliberately.

It was unclear if (under the jpop plan) he was going to have to pay anything (to Jpop). He wouldn't assume the liability, but would TRY to offer credits to the jpop victims.... Jpop might trade away the whole thing for protection from lawsuit, and a Liles multiyear gig "consulting" on the games.

Vs

Having to big against someone else looking to pickup the work done so far for a song.

Btw- I'm not suggesting Bills strategy was a bad one.

Perhaps Magic Girl could get licensed to Pinball Arcade and that could somehow bring the costs down from their astronomical levels? Or get the damn machines to the people that already paid for them?

Agreed, but I really don't think the MG license has a value of more than $25K. I don't think any of the bigger manufacturers would have touched it. I am guessing Bill has spent much more than that already. Just a guess.

is there anything on that pin, which is standard ? flipper bats?/flipper assemblies

Those parts even seem to be custom . This is why there's an astronomical build cost.

A $16,000 game being built by volunteers, now THAT'S funny.

The flipper assemblies are standard, BTW.

It doesn't really matter how many people had pre-orders of each game, it was an artificial limit, rather than one based on demand. Also, need it be said again? Zidware is bankrupt and all outstanding orders are null and void.

Look, it's this simple: there is one person in the world willing to invest enough money into MG to get it done. If that effort is successful the others could follow, so if you really wanted RAZA or AIW you should be rooting for MG's success.

This thing that surprises me most is how much is still incomplete on the playfield, compared to what i had on my prototype over a year previously. Also some of the comments made about magnets not being coded are just plain wrong. You can see clearly that switches are missing from various places including the ramps, and also some of the actual magnets are not even installed. Also, the main arcade mode seem to be left set at 1 ball per game, even though this was easily adjustable and the Ball search feature is included in the framework, but not configured for development, as it confuses things when testing rules and proper mech operation.

Even though i am owed a 5 figure sum from popaduik i still offered to answer questions or give advice on technical items, service mode settings, code etc for the guys there during the weekend to help smooth out the demos as best i could. I did not get a single question....

Looking at one of the videos posted you can see that when the door opens the poor game is trying to tell you to check a bunch of switches including the ramp entry and exits. Someone even says 'i guess we have to just wait for these messages to go by'

Anyway, back to work for me, i've got a shed load of money to make up for....

Will depositors be allowed to see the contract between Zidware and Pinasia before footing more $$$ into this project?

When is John Popadiuk due in court, and how likely is it that the contract between Pinasia and Zidware could be voided by the court?

That would entail completed code (applejuice did as much as he could), and it would also entail the physical machine to be transported to the pinball arcade's office so that all parts can be scanned and 3d modeled. that's a huge undertaking, and a big gamble on pinball arcade's part of whether all that effort would even be profitable (they would likely also have to re-code it with their language).

I would think this is possible and could be a special table for $5-$6. I would think they would have some metrics to predict sales of this. I would absolutely buy it. They may be able to set aside $1 of every sale for unpaid vendors.

Brilliant!!

Maybe somebody decided to build 2 complete prototypes and send the least populated/ready game to the NW-show and the most populated / equipped game (and parts) somewhere else ?

With all different information coming from different directions, it is surprising how less is still known and how much communication still hasn't been done ...

I can tell you first hand that the most complete machine was the one that went to the NW show.

John (PDX Monkey) only loaded the one machine in his rental, and no extra parts.

Andrew

.

In working on the game, and talking to John and seeing the cad drawings, I think much of the $ went to design for boards, custom lights (yes, even the lights were custom boards w/LED chips). Lots of $ spent on custom light design, boards, art and coders (I presume Applejuice got paid up until he said earlier, late 2014 I believe?) so vendors paid at least 2011-2014. The apron is custom stainless, the side rails are stainless (vs. stern black wood rails), custom boards for lights, custom boards for cpu, drivers, transformer was custom, cabinets and BB is custom (and patents?), BG is custom with inserted speakers (no speaker panel in back), custom scoop, custom subway.

Anyway, change all those to standard, and BoM goes down dramatically. Leave the 19 with all stainless, lightening bolts everywhere, etc. and then "regular run" of MG up to 199 with standard apron, rails, lighting etc. Most of the deposit money was spent on sunk, fixed costs for design, not the variable cost of each machines BoM. I think Bill can make the numbers work for both versions.

For RAZA, the BoM could be even cheaper b/c its a larger run, standard (mostly) parts, and could be much less cost / machine.

I don't get it either. Pre-orders are saying it isn't the $16k worth they paid for. But it was totally a sight-unseen, JPop design, $16k. So there were people who said a vaporware pinball is worth $16k. So, before 2011, all the $ sent to Jpop were for a pinball, whatever design and theme fit Magic and Zombies. For everyone to go back now, and say the machine revealed isn't what I imagined, I don't see as being valid.

Interesting to see if a judge says, well games are coming, just beyond your time frame and what you imagined - after all, you did put money in without seeing anything - and production estimates of timing are just that, estimates. So you will get a game, at the price you agreed to up front - where's the fraud and damages I should award you from the defendant?