He's douchtastic!

It must be lonely sitting in that tiny apartment with his TMNT sheet set.

rd.

We all know how smoothly THAT went lol...

Which spot? Just one spot for 27k? Or both spots for 27k + 17k + 10k? Or my dog Spot for $10k?

All I want for Christmas is to see his name above the words "Retired Pinsider."

please don't make this thread about me. For all of those who hate me just ignore me. Nothing I said in this thread is bad or deserves the vitriol I get. Just curios about these games. Have a place to place some more pins. And my apartment isn't huge but I wouldnt say its tiny. Always an open invite to come by and play LOtR

Is preorder for RAZA are sold out?

Pre orders are sold out so you would have to buy an existing owners spot.

I bet he just got 10 pms lol

Not from me!

Let's hope this many is made at least. It's gonna suck down the line when someone wants one of these machines and has to pay through the butt cheek to get one.

Not as bad as its sucking for us original owners having money fronted for 3 years to get one.

He could ramp up his production of AIW and future games but I think his ass would get skinned if he is planning to double up his production on MG's and RAZA's. Delays are one thing but changing the contractual terms for these limited games would be a low that I doubt Jpop would sink to.

Nope. It's already been done to MG. What are there now, 50 of them?

When the number was upped to 50 last time there was a refund offered.

If he changes the contract terms again, who in their right mind would ever sign up for another one of his preorders? If you deal in the collectables market and destroy the collectibility, as a business you're done.

Exactly.

If that's what he did (and I have no reason not to believe that's what happened) there is nothing that would prevent him from doing the same thing with RAZA. Nothing!

There has been talk about how it would be a good thing if JPop could hook up with a company like JJP to come in and actually build the pins for JPop, as this would speed things up a lot in terms of getting the pins made and out the door once he is (finally) done designing them. But my fear would be if this is done, it would be easy to feel like he should increase the number of RAZA pins as well in order to recoup more money/increase profit. He probably didn't feel comfortable trying to make more than 125, but if a company like JJP teamed up with him, this would no longer be a limiting factor.

That would suck for the guys who have been in on this since the beginning. Actually it would suck for all who are in, regardless of how long.

Hey ChrisVW, did you MG guys get any say or a chance to vote on the doubling of your rare collectables or did he just tell you that is what he was doing after he had your money?

I'm asking seriously, not as a troll..

But is that the main reason folks are/were buying these? For collectability?

I don't really consider myself a collector - I'm a player (as evidenced by the condition of my TZ..! Ugh.) so the whole 'getting it because it's collectible' is foreign to me.

Collectability was certainly a big part of it, at least for me when it came to MG. To have a limited production run of a machine done by a designer who created 3-4 of some of the best games ever made was the only reason to warrant a price tag of $17k. Keep in mind, the same time I signed up for MG, BBBs were selling at $12k. Would BBBs be where they were then/today if there weren't only 200 of them? There aren't enough toys and gadgets in the world that can warrant $17k for a machine that doesn't have a limited run.

With that said, when my MG finally arrives and is set up....collectable yes, meant to be hidden from the world, NO. All are welcome to come visit and play as many games as your heart desires. (I'll just charge $100/hour for parking)

Nope. We got a letter in the mail notifying us of the production increase and an offer for a refund if we weren't onboard. This was after full payment was received. It was nicely worded and all but it was basically a "my way or the highway" letter.

Speaking for myself (I was one of the original buyers when this was announced as Ben Heck's Zombie Adventureland), I got in because 1) it was a chance to get a Zombie themed pin, which was my most desired theme; 2) JPop was going to design it, meaning it would have excellent artwork and the pin would shoot great; 3) it would be unique and collectible

No, of course not. I wanted the game for the game. The high price was justified by the low production number.

But I'm also not in it to be giving out interest free loans.

I completely agree with you but that's his problem not ours. I held up my end of the contract when my check cleared.

What Rob said.... especially point #1 (refer back to the original video teaser)

I've been reading and not saying much, but believe in what JPOP is doing for sure. I was able to visit during Expo and things look amazing!

I will say, that it would bug me if he ups the production numbers of RAZA. While I may understand it from a business perspective; I consider the price premium to be part of the limited nature of the release.

"Anyone that would be willing to pre-order a limited run of 125 pins, surely wouldn't mind me upping it to 250"

That's pretty rotten, the old bait and switch. How long ago did you get the letter?

Yeah it sucks but since there was a refund offered I figure there was no other options. This was back in July 2013.

No... pretty sure that hasn't happened yet.

Does anyone else know of any other numbered limited edition collectables where quantities were increased after the sale? I'm not talking about double dipping or milking (anniversary edition, collectors edition, ruby red edition). I'm talking about announcing and selling 100 of X and then making and selling 5x more of X than promised.

I have been combing google and haven't found much other than a Nightbreed DVD limited numbered edition on Amazon where 5000 were announced and sold then they upped the number to 10,000.

Is there a term for this practice, other than breach of contract or fraud?

It just gets worse everyday..

I think transformers LE's (at least the Autobots and Decepticons) were upped slightly right after they were announced. Good thing, there were almost not enough of those to go around (that being said everything's obvious in hindsight).

Would it have been any better if the "international edition", or Scooby Red had been announced?

I love it !!!
Actually from one of my favorite movies ever.

More like..."anyone that would be willing to pre-order a pin for $17k, would surely be willing to pay an additional $3k to keep the dream alive."

BBB. Was announced at a number, then Gene found more parts and could make more. Numbers increased.

Buyers of MG, where you told by how many the increase would be?

I was in on the original IPB BBB order of 111 back in 02'. I took #111. About 3 days later, IPB sent me a letter indicating they found / had extra parts to make an additional 70-80 games.

I felt somewhat slided because I bought in at 1 of 111 games and selected my # based upon that amount of games. I also was uncomfortable giving a company $4,500 for something they had never built.

Everyone seems more interested in rarity than the game itself.

I haven't played MG, RAZA or AIW yet, so I couldn't tell you if it was playability or rare/uniqueness attraction. I'm leaning on rare/uniqueness. Full disclosure... Yes, I'm in on ZA. I can't afford all 3

I can't afford the wait for all three.

That must have been a scam of theirs. When I bought in they told me in no uncertain terms that there were only going to be 163. I picked my number and what my plaque said based on that (something about the last one being built). Oops, now there are 184 or whatever. Frankly, should anyone be surprised that Gene had trouble with keep rack of inventory?

Oh well, I figured out I didn't really like the games and so I never even opened mine up and sold it NIB to some dude in AUS a few years later.

Forgive me for quoting myself, but it is exactly why you're wrong about your statement. We're all buying these games on a hunch. We don't get to see or know anything about what it will be other than the theme (and in the case of RAZA, even that has shifted significantly since the beginning). Just like BBB, MG absolutely CANNOT be $17K good. Nothing is. But people are counting on it being good and rare to justify the price. Once people get their games, some will like it, and some won't. Frankly I think BBB sucks and couldn't get out from under mine fast enough. I bought cheap and sold high, so I was lucky. What people don't want here is to pay the premium for a 17 game run and end up selling at a much higher game run price. Why do you think RAZA and MG were different prices? They won't have a BOM difference. They have a production run difference. That rarity is valued at something.

So, people are hung up on the rarity because part of the value is tied to that. The more he makes, the less they are individually worth. Given that people bought at a certain premium level, they have every right to be concerned. Look what happened to people that bought a routed MM months before MMr was announced. Similar thing here.

Was it the doctor they interviewed on the Pinheadz podcast?

When I bought RAZA (then BHZA) it was because of:

-Zombies! Fueled in no small part because of the TWD tv-show.

-Big Bang Bar selling for $15k+. Basically, if a new game with half the production, it is a "buy now or never" as I'd never stomach paying $15k or more for a game. It was not an investment in that I had/have no intentions of selling, but the reality of the forced scarcity meaning I'd never otherwise be able to own one.

So, yeah, if that forced scarcity model gets mucked with, basically means my money was tied up for no reason and all the stress/frustration/anger about waiting all this time was for nothing if someone can come at the end and buy in for the same price.

I now own a TWD LE, so the Zombie itch has been scratched, and as far as Zombies go, the TWD pin obviously has that in spades, far more than RAZA will at this point.

Had RAZA come out on its original release schedule, I could have been playing Zombies for a year before TWD and all would have been good.

If point 2 is made moot because of increased production, this whole experiment was a waste. I won't be pre-ordering anything ever again after this, whether or not the #s get changed.

I passed on TWD LE because the art wasn't there for me. I like the TV series but didn't want a pin that looked like a TV commercial. The playability alone doesn't make it for me. I want the whole experience and art is a larger part for me.

I ordered BHZA because I know the art will be there. And I hope it will be playable.

It is like buying a future year of fine but limited wine (yes I am taking a risk) and TWD LE is like buying a common Merlot at a local package store.

50 games is still rare as F. I don't think that number will devalue MG if it ever gets made.