That's good for us who go after John, if he got more money. He gave pintasia something that wasn't his. People on here bought the prototype games. They are no longer his to give - that's the beauty of having paid in full invoices with the words prototype on it. I'm not talking about production games, I'm talking about prototypes that John collected money for and sent out paid in full invoices for.

I know you're just trying to make the best of a bad situation. Nobody can fault you.

But really.... the notion that even in the aftermath of this debacle, John would still negotiate to be put on salary is really disgusting.

I've been involved in startups for decades. I just mortgaged my house to get a business line of credit so I could purchase a building to create a pinball community in my city. I then spent my life savings renovating the building. I have no cash anymore. I couldn't qualify for a standard loan because I wasn't paying myself a regular salary. That's how startups work. You put everything into it and you only expect to see a reward much later. John put himself in front of everybody else and it's absolutely offensive, not just to his customers, not just to the pinball community, but to any self-respecting businessperson who has ever run an honest startup.

Agreed.

And this is why, Pintasia shouldn't be the group to finish what John started. Their deal, no doubt, continues to pad his pocket after he's defrauded the community. It's immoral.

The lawsuits should continue. The Zidware assets should be auctioned off. If Zidware cannot refund EVERYBODY IN FULL, they should pierce the corporate veil of Zidware and take John's personal assets and liquidate everything.

Then a new group will purchase the IP outright, and anybody that wants the games can have them made, totally without JPop having anything to do with it. He can be just another name in a LONG LIST of people who made the game a reality, IF it is ever made, and not a single penny should ever go back to him.

If there is any justice, that's how it probably should be executed. There should not be any reward for taking all these peoples' money and having nothing to show for it except lies and deceit.

That is a lot easier said than done.

I really hope John doesn't take a single dollar until all owners are made whole.

This should be an ego blow
https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/john-popadiuk

John does not have CV,WCS or TOM on this list, which means I now own zero jpop games except RAZA

Hahaha. John has shown this will not be the case. He already negotiated a salary for himself.

For the record - i really do NOT know what the deal is - only that I think the salary idea was to keep lights on to function & contingent on happening if the MG showing at NW is a go AND his BOM that he presented was legit and doable... I'm not holding my breath on either at this point...

I hear you. I've been in a handful of start ups myself and worked my ass off on the idea of a return later only to always be let down by others who ran the show into the ground... To say I'm feeling a bit of déjà vu here is an understatement...

depending on how John kept his books, it may not be too difficult given the right lawyer

http://www.pinballschool.org/

Looks like you can still apply to pinballschool at Zidware.

Was this IP also licensed by Pintasia or under the same LLC?

Couldnt money be shifted into this by John ?

That's not what it means. Pintasia bought the ideas - drawings, part ideas, etc. They did not buy any assets - so yes, everything at Zidware is still belonging to John. Bill said he "borrowed" the machine to take to NW show. see post 11414.

Bill has until June 30, as Pintasia will have the full list of those owners who signed and those who didn't. You mean John doesn't have until June 30? John has already given Pintasia the license. The cases against John or Zidware aren't affected by Pintasia's offer that expires June 30.

Not true, Pintasia sent info directly, or talked to owners, or put stuff on the Facebook owners group.

Is it just me, or is Pint-Asia apropos? A pint of blood, going to asia. Laughable almost.

hey at least a partial list of equipment on that page

"Makerbot Replicator 3D printers
Makerbot 3D Desktop Scanner
Zenbot 4848 CNC Machine
HP CAD Color Paper Plotter
Electrical Work Bench Stations
Mechnaical Work Bench Stations
Benchtop PCB Reflow Solder Oven
Chicago Rivet Automatic Ballguide Riveter
Pnuematic Air Stapler Tools and Drills
Wood Working Machinery & Saws
Metal Working Machinery and Nibblers
Solidworks® 3D Cad Suite
Adobe® CS Creative Suite
Draftsight 2D Cad Suite
and much more! "

I said I wouldn't to John, and John asked me not to b/c of the Pintasia agreement. It is a licensing to Pintasia issue, John doesn't control the intellectual property any longer. The videos were from before the agreement, and then recently, the pics Bill released are the only recent pictures I've seen. I'm not sure what you'd want pictures of, that you haven't already seen.

The picture Bill showed of the game in the front office at Zidware is the same office I saw Thursday, except the cabinet and playfield are now with Pintasia, on loan, going to the NW show.

in case anyone wants to sign up still

2014_PDW_Application_r1.pdf

How do you know he negotiated a salary for himself? I think you are guessing, right?

Just wanted to point out that if John was really completely out of money, he would have been busy emptying out that expensive shop that he is paying rent on...

Well, several days have past with zero effort to refute the claim that Pintasia's #2 on the "team of experts" that Bill assembled (the finance person, no less!) is indeed the same person embroiled in multiple past Ponzi schemes.

Safe to assume that if it was somehow untrue, it would have been vigorously denied/refuted by now.

Between that (the first Pintasia announcement) and the horrific lead-in that John sent out prior, it's hard to imagine a WORSE way to kickoff a venture whose goal is restoring trust.

Oh, wait, they made 2 ramps.... Oh, snap, forget all the ethics stuff.... NEW RAMPS!!!!

This is not directed towards you in a negative manner at all, frolic.

When I read that comment, this picture fully articulates my initial reaction:

9b5.jpg

Right on, Iceman. Bill licensed what Zidware owns. ZIdware owns the MG game Bill is borrowing for the June 5 show. Bankruptcy would delay, halt or stop completely anything Pintasia is trying to do to salvage something to show us later this week and pull together re: a manufacturing deal, etc. by June 30.

I suppose (but don't know) an involuntary bankruptcy could be filed and started - but why not wait until June 30 to see what Pintasia can pull together? If they can pull together a flipping game by Friday, I think they earned the benefit of the doubt so see what they can accomplish by then.

I see your point. Doesn't look like anything has been emptied out at all - its a pretty full place. But the pics I've seen in the past, of the row of RAZA, some of the PF pics, Bills picture of the office with the game on "the rug", all that stuff is still there, and pretty much in the same spot as when those pics were taken months ago.

My point is that there are parts and partial games, and "stuff" that are hard assets sitting there - but I doubt there is much of a bank balance in the checking account - like Bill Brandes said, enough to pay the rent and lights for one more month.

FYI - it was 85 that day, there was no A/C on, John turned off the lights as we left a room - the desk and chair are old used furniture. I'm not defending anything - I'm just pointing out there wasn't any bling there.

He still needs all that room to store his ego.

I really don't want to rain on the Pintasia parade, but their deal with Zidware obviously puts money into JPop's pocket, all the while his customers continue to get shafted.

I don't think that's a moral or ethical arrangement.

I know people want to see the game made, especially his customers.

But I think the best way to achieve this would be to liquidate Zidware assets, and start fresh. Take some of that revenue generated and pay back the customers and the creditors. Then at least the customers may have some money to put into a second chance at producing the game by a group that is unaffiliated with Zidware completely (hopefully). If you deal with Pintasia, you're basically giving more money to JPop, in effect rewarding him for his malpractice. I guess now we know why Bill isn't completely up front about the deal. It rewards the customer's rapist.

Sorry Bill, I know this is probably the best deal for YOU. It doesn't sound though, like it's the best deal for everybody else. I understand you have good intentions, but keeping JPop in the loop on this, in any capacity, doesn't seem like a move that is respectable to the community. And I think actually, the games would have a better chance of being made if he was completely out of the picture. No creditor is likely going to work with a group that rewards JPop after he's screwed them over if they're not made whole.

Can someone who has paid into this or is owed money for services/parts supplied swoop in with a court order and seize the game?

He must have the whole damn office park rented in that case!!!

Now I know where all the money went.

1 4k per month shop to tinker
6 more 4k per month shops to try and contain his ego.

LEARNING
Pinball school will take you thru the basics of pinball design and development, under the cloak of project-based learning, move into game theme selection and ultimately playfield drawing, invention and creation. The student will learn the basics of pinball design from reviewing historic games, designers, trends and pinball companies then carry their final work back home!

THE RUBRIC
To begin to understand on how to design pinball, students will be taught historically, pinball events or milestones that have changed pinball, and how these games were designed and introduced. Students will walk thru these important early decades and show how early concepts can be re-invented for today’s modern games.

KNOWLEDGE
Students will eventually move into designing and building their own pinball playfields to be hand wired and completed, good enought to flip and take home. The basic skills of pinball design will leave the students feeling accomplished and knowledgable with a basic RUBRIC that will be used to measure performance, undersatanding and goals.

SECTIONS
The days will be broken into 3 sections of study. The evening sections will be "electives" and will allow the students to tackle and join in "real" pinball design challenges and problem solving within the custom pinball making process.

UNIVERSITY BASIS
The workshops are taught from a basis of knowledge Mr. Popadiuk has aquired as an Adjunct Teacher at Chicago's Columbia College of Art & Design for 7 seven years. Working from a project-based curriculm, lectures, tutorials and hands-on demonstrations, student work will be measured and regimented with expectations based on solid performance goals.

SELECTED COURSEWARE
©2014 by John A. Popadiuk
DAY ONE - 8am - 5pm (30 minutes for lunch)
- workshop orientation - safety keys
- student expectations - curicullum objectives
- introduction to pinball making tools
- lecture - "pinball history" - "the hook"
- pinball game discussion - students begin
- pro designers methodology

ELECTIVE - pinball guest dinner / open workshop

DAY TWO- 8am - 5pm (30 minutes for lunch)
- pinball design overview
- theme choice vs. invention
- how to begin playfield geometry
- sorting out bumpers, ramps and targets
- lecture - "methods of playfield drawing"
- drawing fundamentals - the pinball library
- discussion of game timing and flow
- demonstration - model making techniques

ELECTIVE - pinball guest dinner / open workshop / routing

DAY THREE - 8am - 5pm (30 minutes for lunch)
- whitewood building - playfield routing
- team design discussion / review
- lecture - "Technology in Pinball"
- how to refine playfield geometry
- demonstration - 3D modelling and 3D printing techniques

ELECTIVE - pinball pizza dinner / Gameworks

DAY FOUR - 9am - 3pm (30 minutes for lunch)
- final playfield building & testing
- deciding on pinball art styles & creation
- demonstration - pinball wire and cable making
- discussion of cnc and laser part making
- materials discussion for plastic, steel and wood
- review and questions

ELECTIVE - workshop challenges / beer chat

• This document is subject to changes, ommisions and additions as required.

TERMS & CONDITIONS
Course price does not include pinball electronic hardware or power supply systems. These will be made available on a cost+ basis. All other pinball making supplies will be provided as required by the student, including the necessary parts to construct a basic pinball playfield design within the class session time.
Food, travel and lodgings are not included in the course fee however appropriate food and beverages will be supplied during the day in work sessions. We also have a list on request of recommended places to stay within a stones throw from the workshop that are affordable.

COURSE SESSIONS & DATES (Subject to Change)
December 27th - December 30, 2014
January 8th - January 11, 2015
May14th - May 17th, 2015
October 22th 2015 - October 25, 2015
METHOD OF PAYMENT
Bank transfer (We will mail you our account info) or Cheque (payable to Zidware Inc)
Please note, as there are limited places available per course, it is advised to confirm early to avoid disappointment. On received payment, your place will be confirmed and the remaining necessary workshop itinerary will be forwarded. If you wish to withdraw from the course you will receive full reimbursement provided a minimum of 28 days notice has been given before course date.

STUDENT CONDUCT
All students will be required to sign an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) and abide by basic rules of conduct. As the workshop has many machines, devices, tools and other hazards, it is imperitive that sessions operate in a safe and reasonable way, to the benefit of others. Any misconduct or illegal activities are not permitted and will mean immediate dismissal (no refund) of any sutedent.

Let's assume that they get a fully functioning MG to the show and it kicks ass and everybody falls head over heels over it.

Then what?

All MG, RAZA, and AIW owners suddenly get refunds? Or 100% credit towards a Magic Girl? What about all the vendors that JPop didn't pay?

How does this math work again?

I doubt it, b/c the trade receivables are likely unsecured by any particular asset.

It would make sense that the current owners would get pushed to the end of the line and new customers/money would be used to gradually make them whole.

At what price, and how many would have to be sold before that would happen??

How much profit do you think there would be in manufacturing and selling a single MG?

1000 units x $1000 = $1,000,000 . That should make a lot of folks whole. Of course this is pure speculation on my part..

I would think it might work something like right of first refusal. Using some round numbers, for example:
Game 1 is made and ready to ship, Owners 1, 2 and 3 have put in $5k deposits, and the game final price is $15k.
Owner 1 and 2 pass and want refunds, owner 3 says he's in, and pays his $10k and gets his game, Owner 1 & 2 get their 5k back.
Pintasia/wcbrandes said 7 days/500 posts ago.... as games get made, the $ will go to the folks who want refunded or they'll get their games, and he will take his game last (i.e. after everyone else is made whole or either a delivery or refund).

Lets assume 10 games are made at $15k, and the pattern continues, 2 get refunded and 3rd guy takes delivery.
That would satisfy 30 MG orders (20 get out at full refund of their $5k, 10 have paid in another $100000 - Pintasia has nothing, but has completely taken care of first 30 MG orders).

Now there are the 100 RAZA orders - who could have converted to the MG queue, or wait for RAZA. Lets say the pattern continues, except its 1 refund, and every other guy gets the MG regular for $10k, so he pays $5k, and RAZA 1 is refunded. That pattern goes for 50 MG games, odds are refunded, evens get an MG.

AT that point - 30 MG Limited orders have been filled, 20 refunds, and 10 games delivered.
100 Raza orders are filled. 50 refunds, 50 games built and delivered.

Pintasia still has $0, and is actually in the hole by 60 games BoM, which is probably around the $100k Bill mentioned he'd be out just taking this risk to get the MG's done, parts ordered, built, etc.

But.... now Pintasia has met all Zidware commitments, has the license for MG, Raza and AIW, and can build 149 more MG standards. Let's assume they can build for $9k, sell for 10k. Its going to take 100 more MG sales to break even on their 100k. That would bring the total to 10 LE, and 150 standard MG delivered.

So with 49 games left, at $1k profit each, THEN Pintasia starts to make money.

They have also much of the RAZA parts and design and art done, at least it looks pretty much done for those steps.

Pintasia does the remaining proto and design for what? $50 k?
Then they can break even on game 51 of RAZA adding $1k to the kitty for AIW.

It is feasible but will take a long time.

Without the current owners Zidware wouldn't exist and there would be no assets. If Pintasia can make them whole (even though this will take some time) they would make them happy but also earn new customers because of it. If they are able to execute it would be beneficial to a lot of folks.

what a f'ing mess. Unbelievable what Jpop has done to this hobby.

At what price point would they need to sell to be able to turn that profit?

Oh, and factor in a NEW cost JPop didnt even consider: outsourcing manufacturing.

I still think thats a FAR greater hurdle than figuring out a flipping proto:
Who will make these machines?

JJP? They can hardly figure out their OWN production schedule.
Stern? Why? Why with all the BETTER options out there (Stern titles, Vault editions, PPS/CGC remakes, etc), would they want to wrestle in this mudpit?

I didn't notice any profits in those numbers. Good luck on that.

Uh, what? This isn't even close to the best possible deal for Bill. Best deal would be to wait for a Zidware bankruptcy auction, and pick up the pieces for pennies on the dollar. Bill doesn't HAVE to accept any of the Zidware liabilities, IANAL, but my impression is that a judge would accept just about any opportunity for funds to go to the creditors. Accepting any of Zidware's obligations makes very little business sense, but Bill is looking at it anyway.

All we can do here is speculate. It isn't like the BOM is going to be posted here.

Zidware pre-order buyers should get a free month of JPop's Pinball University where they learn how to complete and assemble their games.

back_to_school.png

Go back and look at wcbrandes posts - he's not in it for profit. Heck, he isn't even expecting to get his $100k of NEW money back for quite a while, and his machine will be last. SO ... yeah, there was no profit in those #'s.

Yea, there is no money in this deal. I don't see how these games can get made unless someone is willing to front $1M+ and they have to really be in love with the game/design to want to make such a sacrifice.

There's no incentive for any other manufacturer to want to step in this mess. JPop was trying to get hired by everybody else. They had their chance to bring him on board and they passed. I suspect the Stern people and Jersey Jack didn't want to work with him then, and can't imagine why they'd want to now?

So JPop got 100 people to pre-order. Big whoop. Jack got 1000 people to pre-order a theme half the community hated. Stern can fart 500 pre-orders any time they want. Why should they give a rat's ass about any of JPop's designs?

I went back and listened to the Topcast episode where George Gomez talked about SWE1. It's pretty obvious he was incredibly frustrated and upset with what JPop did to the platform. You can read between the lines of what he's saying and the tone of his voice that it's almost as if he feels JPop either consciously sabotaged the project, or refused to listen to anybody else on the team and "made the game his way" much to the detriment of everybody else on the P2K project and WMS whole pinball division -- and looking at what he's done with MG, RAZA and AIW, there's every indication these games might be equally ill-conceived in the wake of the overwhelming evidence that when JPop gets his way, he has a tendency to create epic disasters.

So someone explain to me why anyone should be excited about these games? Even when he had a huge team behind him, he had the capacity to shit bricks of the finest pewter.

No job for JPoop, the hobby and market received what it deserved. JP didn't do this to the hobby really, he screwed over naive 'investors'. The hobby and the industry did this to itself. Taking advantage of naive and gullible while the industry (really only one, but at the time in '11 maybe coming into two manufactures) not taking a sociopath scam artist looking for a job with a cult personality and proven record of being a prima donna into its fold, out of the market, and deep six him into a project which would have never see daylight via market or shows while holding him to NDA and a management position of promise with absolutely no real power. Also a non compete clause for his effective usefulness in the market. Honestly, this is the only way to keep someone like this guy away from potential consumers.