go back to the Predator thread. People started receiving the emails a short time ago. FBI has washed their hands of it. People need to be aware that with these start-up pre-order arrangements that you have very little protection should they go wrong. Very few people have been reimbursed by their CC companies, no one from Paypal and no one from Kevin. Gonna be the same with JPop and with the new crew if they can't get it produced. People keep saying don't throw good money after bad money, and they're right.

Link?

Look up a few posts in this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6mg-raza-and-aiw%e2%80%a6/page/225#post-2474218

LOL. Have to be fast in this thread!

Edit: Just read through that and HOLY SHIT! I heard rumors that this was not going well, but this is like an HBO series or something.

I believe that was the local police and the reason was that no one in the State of Michigan had filed a complaint. The FBI would handle the out-of-state claims.

There is no harm in filing a complaint with the Illinois Attorney General (https://ccformsubmission.ilattorneygeneral.net/). Enough complaints would spark an investigation and for Illinois' many flaws, they are decent at going after consumer fraud. This does not cost anything but perhaps some time.

Also many of the people who are out money are out under $10,000. They can file in small claims court and don't really need a lawyer for that.

Currently, as of this moment, there is no case against Kevin either through local PD or the FBI.

However, some local MI people have now stepped up so it's possible the local investigation may move forward again.

That is funny. I wasn't told that either until my tasks got updated and the game name changed so I was like. 'Hang on, the names changed? What the...?' John then told me Ben was no longer involved as he wanted to do a different zombie game. ( I think, was awhile ago now)

Still don't understand why we all never got introduced. I know I've mentioned this to other people involved who say the same thing. Tony at Glm also mentioned the fractured, silo way of working. I for one hated not being able to share ideas, tech stuff in a larger group. It was very isolating. For example I never got to chat to the guy creating the screen graphics or animations so we could share integration ideas

Everything went through john

Not to get off topic, but JJP #3's artist is John Youssi...I think they're covered on great pinball art.

JJP #4: ZombiYeti? Yes please!

The hobby will be fine if all the new game makers fold. It's a shame for those who eat/live/breathe pinball as a livelihood if these things keep crashing and burning.

The hobby may be "fine" if they all fold, but I'd personally much rather have as many options as possible.

If these guys can pull some strings maybe they could all be transferred to the same prison and start a new pinball company. Instead of making license plates, prisoners could build pinball machines

Wow, 2015 will not be remembered as a good year for pinball.

He's a real life Spock:

“May I say that I have not thoroughly enjoyed serving with humans? I find their illogic and foolish emotions a constant irritant.” - Star Trek, season 3, episode 7 (“Day of the Dove,” 1968)

Soooo... Hobbit is in trouble...

Legit options sure....but if the options are Shit-B, Zitware and (if Elaut's allegations are true) JJP , are those options we want? Options take your money and give you nothing?

Not necessarily. If The Hobbit hasn't shipped by the time that case wraps up many months (or more likely years) from now, that can't be blamed on the law suit.

What's up with JJP? Man if they collapse, won't that be worse than Kevin and John put together?

I'm starting to think with all these evil people showing up in boutique pinball, Chuck is going to turn out to be an axe murderer or something haha.

In reading Elaut's case report, they basically accuse Jack of being a mafia style crook who swindled 1.6 million out of their company by replacing the entire staff of their company with family members and paying the money out to a bunch of his own bank accounts while cooking the books.

It's still in court though, so he's innocent until proven guilty...

Edit: and the reason I say Hobbit is in trouble is that a major license like that might pull the plug just because they don't want to be affiliated.

Might cause a run on the bank, so to speak. That could cause a delay or future interruption in the Hobbit manufacturing plans.

lol. Spooky's next game! Chuckie's Revenge!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

The lawsuit is old news already, I doubt that's going to happen.

Hey RobT, way to deflect the thread and heat off JPOOP (for a few hours anyway) and put it right on JJP. Master deflection dude, bravo

Maybe Rick gets a full head of steam (already has a big head full of......) I KID!!!!

We need someone to ramp up real production. Not this trickle of one-off game stuff. Someone to compete with Gary straight up. I just don't see it happening. Not unless one of the game companies with huge pockets decides that there is profit in pinball now.

Yikes. Seriously, what is it with this hobby?

greed and incompetence.

Throw in ego and I think you're close.

I read that the other day when the info was posted in the thread that was closed down. There isn't much gray area in that lawsuit.

There are two sides to every story, but one side (not sure which) is gonna end up taking a heavy hit on this one.

To say the least....and no the lawsuit impact is not baked in yet.

Yeah, there's a reason Gary said "Come on in, the water's cold" and "I don't run a game business, I run a manufacturing business" ...this is NOT a business for dreamers and artists - it's a business that can HIRE dreamers and artists, but has to keep them to a budget and schedule. Let's say Jack or Heighway do manage to ramp up and keep a factory churning like Stern - can they successfully sell all of that product? Gary also said something like "if anyone did start a new pinball company they'd kill us all off." Honestly I think Stern's pretty safe at this point, but the other guys will probably end up cannibalizing each other.

On the plus side, it all really makes me want an AMH.

And at least JPop has taught us all a valuable lesson on due diligence and project monitoring. I think the community as a whole will turn out a lot stronger in the end, as far as professionalism and expectations are concerned. The next developer will be expected to have their act together. Bill is the first to experience these new expectations

Agreed.

I think a lot of people today have the notion that all it takes to start a business is a great idea and customers, the rest will follow. Real work is only about 10% fun stuff, and 90% grunt work that nobody wants to do.

It's really sad to think that if JPop had put in the effort, he might have been successful, but he spent so much time doing the 10% over and over again for different games he never did any of the 90%.

Maybe, but we are a lot more sensitive as a community to things than we were just a few months ago. While Philgate was bad late last fall, we are in full scale melt down mode right now with Predator and Jpop where people actually have lost a lot of money.

Something that did not overly alarm people four or five months ago is going to have a major impact now...even though it is technically old news we are looking at afresh.

That boiled down to core competency, which he lacks (no reason to pull punches at this stage). He did not have the mechanical aptitude to actually build the machine (*I won't even address the issue of the absence of his path to manufacturing*). Skit-B actually had more mechanical and electrical aptitude than JPop.

I guess we have learned that just because you once worked at NASA it doesn't mean you actually can build a space shuttle. JPop worked on the art because it was easy, he avoided the rest because it was hard.

3stooges.jpg

To think that Skit-B got further than JPop just boggles the mind.

We've learned he had more than ample opportunities to be helped, but he just doesn't have the leadership quality to drive the project toward his goal once the staff grew to more than just him. As you said, a core competency like Business Acumen was just missing.

He just kept destroying his relationships because he couldn't be bothered to do the actual admin work of maintaining them (paying invoices, keeping records, putting everything on paper, etc...).

I did. I refuse to comment on the situation.

Skit B did get further but their game was a lot simpler
No magnets no toys etc...
Plus it does cut down on the overall costs if your mom does the art.

Kind of like not paying vendors too...

or you don't pay the artist

like not paying the guy that did all your coding?

They both are complete assholes that stole money from their friends by running their companies into the ground.

I don't think either of them feel bad for it either.

JPOP was an idea guy. He wasn't the wrench turner. His best games had a top notch co-designer and programmer. Silver made CV happen. JPOP just had his name on top bill.

This whole boutique pinball thing is full of idea guys just like him. Not enough wrench turners. And while Kevin might have been a wrench turner, he was too much of a mouth breather to make the business deal stick together. It isn't surprising to me that someone like Kevin got closer, though. He was ignorant on the actual process and just kept plowing ahead. Hell, not even falling to secure the license got in his way. He didn't know a roadblock when he saw it.

Like Rarehero said above, you have to have the logistics in place to manufacture already, before you even think about dipping your toes into this water. If Midway or WMS or EA or some gaming giant decided to throw $25M at retooling a factory, they have a prayer. But they hire the JPOPs of the world to design. Not to run the whole shabang.

One of my local pinbuddies tried a few times to talk me into making a game with him...and I'm like "no way"...he's like "why not!? We have better ideas and can create better art than any of these guys!" ...and I'm like "maybe...but I don't know how to build a f*cking game! I don't know how to cut wood. I don't know how to create or program electronics.....just because I can draw, dream up stuff, and repair my own games does not mean I can mass produce them". He was like "we can find guys to do all that other stuff"....I was just like "Noooooooooo". He was kinda bummed out but I live firmly in reality.

Already planning your 2024 pinball purchase???

HOLY MOLY! WTF? Is there a thread about this? I had no idea. Daaayuuumm.. this industry is cray-cray!

I can do every piece of a pinball machine except the art, and I still wouldn't dare start a pinball company.

Even if there was money to be made, I don't like the idea of making money off of my friends either.

Heighway?

I actually just finished some official Iron Maiden art that will release at SDCC got the blessing from
eddies father too