spooky won't ship to europe,i wanted to order(netherlands),but i couldn't??

Puuuuullllleease!! If there ever was such a thing, it wasn't him. He has, however, achieved a different kind of legendary status in the Pinball world, but I wouldn't brag about it.

Well, I've gone on record that I'm not a huge fan of Jpop's games, but I won't dispute that he was considered one of the best. My favorite game of his is WCS, probably because it's a bit more challenging than the rest of his stuff, but there's no denying that he made the best looking games ever. Yes, he put out some games with shallow and simple rules, but if you had a gun to your head and you needed to provide a pinball machine that was going to impress someone you didn't know, I would bet that TOTAN or ToM would be on your shortlist of options.

yes, that's my post in a nut shell. If you don't want to read my wall of words just read this post.

The money's gone (that's what I hear)

So how is it a good deal for RAZA and AIW owners to pay 2.5x more new money? It's not.

I am curious to know what everyone thinks Zidware is worth today?

I know the number is ZERO if you include outstanding debts. What if it went through bankruptcy and the whole thing is up for auction today? The protos, cabinets, toys, art, patents, IP and trademarks.

What do you think it's worth?

Where this deal falls flat is the requirement to throw good money in after bad... I think many of the original pre-order buyers have already written off most of their money as a loss but I really think it's going to be next to impossible to ask them to send in additional money (Could be $4K or more) and then ask them to wait for several more years' just isn't going to happen! The pre-order is dead thanks to JPop and Skit-B. In order for this to work Pintasia is going to have to fund production on his own under the promise that they original owner's hold off suing, and then they have the option to buy once the game is actually built, using their credits from before.

His physical assets are worth almost nothing in regards to real world value. In a collector community, they might be worth more, but I don't know that a court would assign much value to what he has.

Your favorite game of his was the one that had to be finished by other people. The other games you mentioned were also team efforts, including the fact that he didn't do the art.

No need to drag him down, but also no reason to put him on a pedestal. Steve Ritchie and Lyman Sheats can have pinball god status if there's such a thing, John doesn't get to hang out on their level.

Only if you're using artwork as the measuring stick and he didn't draw the artwork, so it's a moot point. Besides, I'd go with Monster Bash in that scenario. Better artwork and toys than any JPOP games IMO.

Lastly, these pins are NOT worth $16K.

Pintasia keeps that number so that he has a convenient figure and to make up for the refunds. The pins are not going to be limited to 13 or 26. They are going to be made in much higher numbers. John even alluded to the lower cost 'classic version' or whatever he called it. The only people paying $16K would be the people who are strong armed into signing the agreement to pay $16K. Others (those who can wait and see, can pay less for a low cost game with all the same functionality).

So to appear like you are getting a refund (if you are a RAZA owner it appears like you are getting $6K off, but really you are just getting a $10K pin for an additional $10K new money).

Ha. Your post actually wasn't there while I was typing. Should have hit refresh and I wouldn't have posted at all. Yours was a lot more informative. I don't think you need to be very business savvy to see that RAZA/AIW buyers will be left holding the bag.

I mean, if the pinball community is that eager to piss away money, i'll start my company today. I will take your cash deposits immediately and promise to not make you shit. The end result will be the same as sinking money into this scam but I promise to give daily updates reassuring you that you will never get shit, if it will convince you to give the money to me instead.

raza.jpg

Apologies to Zombie Yeti as his work is great, but its a joke so much effort was put on the art with so much of the game not done.

There is a reason traditional development leaves art to the very end, and John confirmed his way is the way to failure.

All is forgiven!!!

Looks cool. Where do I send my several thousands of dollars?

Well that's a mess.

That's how Skit-B went down. Earlier on people did discuss features and gameplay. As the project began tipping tipping tipping NOSEDIVE people stopped talking about whether or not it would be any good in favor of whether or not it would even get made.

Notice, also, no one is talking about post-sales support. If you have another JJP lightboard scenario, what's the outcome?

I think people have the sense this is a hail mary but I'm not sure if they realize how far back the goal posts have moved. Right now they look pressed up against the nacho stand in the upper deck.

mmm...nachos.

this is so true. Great art, but IMO putting the cart before the horse. White wood shooting, that should come first, then mock-up basic art, then final polished art. That makes more sense to me, but what do I know? I don't have 30 years in the industry like John.

I'm sure Bill would agree .

Early on I had criticized John on the phone for concentrating so much on the artwork before actually making a functioning whitewood.

At the time, he hadn't even figured out what control system or operating system he'd wanted to use to run the game (which is obviously a vital component). As such, I told him I couldn't accurately quote how long it'd take until he either gave me those specifications or made the budget public. From the get-go, all of his time was spent on art. In fact, many conversations about the game would fall back to the art. I understand that is John's natural way of thinking, but clearly all factors weren't considered at the time.

Obviously he should've gotten a flipping whitewood FIRST in order to test all of his concepts. Why the hell would you pay to have your concepts built on fully printed playfields? We could never really get this through his head.

Can you imagine? I buy a Stern game, bash them all you want about the code or the bad vent holes or hinges. But my XMLE I got a new aux board free and it was well past the official warranty (more than a year post sale). My AcDc premium, I was the second owner and it was past the warranty and they still sent me a free sound board. I didn't even have to pay for shipping.

The line art is amazing. Heck, everyone can agree that ZombieYetti is amazing. But, what the hell is up with the color palette on these games? Did John limit it to colors you could find in a box of sidewalk chalk?

I propose renaming RAZA to Fifty Shades of Green.

Yeah, but I've actually played Predator. I knew how it played (not that great IMHO). There wasn't any mystery there. Before Kevin vanished he talked plenty about the rules. There was a *game* for all the bullshit.

Magic Girl has what? Some wiggly ramps, Jeremy's art, and what else? Is anyone actually thinking about the game part?

You look at some of the original art when it was still Ben Heck as the villain, and it was a dark zombie game. Then Spooky announce their game, and Walking Dead is announced, and John basically retools his entire game to make it everything they aren't. That alone probably ate up a year.

Well, the common thread for Popaduik is his playfields shoot nicely and the games look nice but the rest sucks. He's a wiz at AutoCAD.

So, the one thing he's good at is done. Maybe some professionals can finish the rest.

Solution:

Stern hire Zombieyeti and puts him in charge of art for Game of Thones or SW or Jaws....

Or

JJP hires him and they won't have the hot mess they had completely redoing TH artwork on their next title...

Becuase right it seems like folks are trying to build a pinball company around gorgeous artwork....

That's like picking out a wedding dress THEN going out to try to locate a wife....

No doubt G

Yeah, it's sort of Cirqus Atomic Zombie Adventure.

I don't think he's using the RGB palette. Looks more like the LSD...

Video or it didnt happen

The trouble is that with licensed themes it will be tough to get them to agree to zombieyeti's work. Where would it fit in nicely? On the Lawlor original license with JJP which is rumored to be a snow-based return to his natural disaster themes. Jack, please call ZY and make this happen!

yes!!! and of course that game needs a Yeti.

So with a couple million dollars (questionably) gone.

Has anyone started any legal action?

I remember reading attorney general being notified and I am sure the IRS has been as well.

I am surprised. Nope never mind the site is down.

Yup. There was that weird troll thread about getting Jeremy to do the art for Alien. Would have been a non starter, hand drawn art isn't an option there. That's going to be the case for most movie and TV licenses I think.

Band pins are one of the last vestiges of hand drawn licensed games.

It's a shame. The TV/movie license holders would be smart to allow it, but to add agreements in place that allows them to use assets from the pinball machine for their own use (merchandise, advertising, etc.).

Help us help you, Mr. License Holder.

That is kind of funny. Coin taker comes up as selling RAZA like it is in the box ready to ship.
10500 just one click and add to basket. What a deal. You may need to modify your site.

I'm sure Jeremy can draw Eddie...

Off-topic I know, but why? Tons of hand-drawn art in the olden days. My understanding is that it's mostly a timing issue more than a money issue.

It has to with controlling the brand and consistency.

Well they are named Coin Taker!!!

Order now people and relax!

http://cointaker.com/products/retro-atomic-zombie-adventureland

Yea, I feel bad for the cointaker gang. Anyone know if they remitted all the money they took in for RAZA to JPop?

My gosh, it let me add the game to my basket still . . . yea, they need to remove that from their website.

You mean Elauts pockets

And Gene thanked him by screwing him. Isn't it sad how many stories in pinball end this way?

In case no one is paying attention, the FBI just closed their investigation into the Predator affair and told those that got scammed there to pack sand. They found no criminal activity. Think about that before you decide if you want to throw any more money at this train wreck.

I may have read that thread wrong but it's my understanding the local PD handed it over to the fbi and closed their case. As far as I know, Kevin isn't out of the woods just yet.

Exactly.

http://issuu.com/jackgtruth/docs/jjp_lawsuit

With Skit-B and JPop/Zidware going down in flames so close together, the last thing this hobby needs is for JJP to be next.

Damn this hobby has more drama than any I've been involved in!