Dup
(Topic ID: 92436)
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Alice in Wonderland
Gottlieb, 1948-
Houdini
American Pinball, 2017
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Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
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Zidware Pinball USA, 2012
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Boerne, TX
Quoted from ZenTron:iceman44, Im not sure why you're spending so much time and energy looking at the past. Ya'll should try to be recruiting some industry experts to move Zidware / JPOP's assets/IP into a new company and turn things around. Looking in from the outside MG seems like it has some potential and with the right players it could be shipping in less then 12 months.
Imo, i don't want to try and fix someone else's problems, that is down Bill's alley if he can pull it off
I think the reality is you just might see something come together that doesn't involve Zidware or Jpop in any form or fashion.
There is a lot of burned out sentiment right now though. With Jacks lawsuit, SkitB and what Jpop did it's hard to imagine anything working at this time
We might be back down to just Stern again by the end of 2015
And of course the Spooky guys if it's even worth it for them bottom line wise
Rotterdam
Quoted from ZenTron:How can you buy something that doesn't exist and then demand it..
I am just saying I don't want MG or RAZA, I bought AIW...
Quoted from Hitch9:Sometimes people's reputations precede themselves. In this case those in the Industry knew things about JPOP already, that pinheads did not. Now the customers know about his "character" or lack thereof.
I'm entering this thread a bit late - I spoke out a lot about this years ago when it first came up, and then recently when I heard things were imploding.
A few questions that run through my mind that I have yet to have answered (and if there are more details elsewhere on this, I'd love to have references and get back up to speed..)
* Everybody is accusing JPop of malicious fraud and throwing a lot of derogatory comments around. I'm curious if the issue is centered around him really intentionally lying or simply being a really horrible, naive businessperson?
I know it seems ridiculous that someone would be so naive as to drag this financial mess on as long as it has gone, but stranger things have happened. And there's a lot of people in this scene that love to sit in their echo-chambers and hear the sound of their voice without opposition. My original concern over the deal was that I always thought John was an artist - a great artist, but what experience did he have running a business? I'm not talking about merely slapping a "dba" behind your graphic design service, but actually managing people, suppliers, accounting, etc.?
So was this some kind of evil scheme from day one? Was it "graphic designer gets in way over his head?"
* Or was it something else, that *some* people who have dealt with him knew about and kept it largely quiet from the general community? Is he some kind of pathological liar who has delusions of grandeur? There does appear to be a trail of people who have worked with him that now aren't, but won't go into great detail as to why?
Ben Heck, what's the story with you? Y'all were collaborating. Now you're not. Obviously something happened. Did you see the writing on this wall awhile back and cut your losses? I know hindsight is 20/20 but do you think there may have been something you could have said or done to help the situation?
When I pre-ordered WOZ, I talked with Jack on the phone for more than an hour. We talked about the design team and his vision and other things. I remember asking him who he looked at to hire, and when JPop's name came up, IIRC, he was like, "um, yea, no, we're not going to hire him.. nope..." implying that there might be some history and bad blood... things that people know that others aren't saying. I don't know for sure, but it looks like some people might have known something and kept quiet.
I'm curious what that something is?
This to me, always seemed like another puzzling thing... why is one of the [formerly] most-respected designers in the industry being outcast by the major manufacturers? What did they know?
Quoted from chessiv:Absolutely really. When trying to work with stubborn people you don't come to a public forum and constantly insult them. I'm not talking about any sort of constructive criticism just your straight insults. So yes, I still stand by what I said. In saying that I'm not defending John as he's a dirtbag at best. And what we know now we didn't know then, that there was no hope.
Now, if you want to pull old quotes out of context look a few posts up at how you said spooky could never make a pin and pop would. Like I said, sometimes you appear very rational and sometimes not so much.
My insults were well deserved and came AFTER many conversations with him
He needed a foot stuck so far up his ass it would make his head pop off
I wasn't hard enough on him. You gotta be kidding me
I don't roll that way, like it or not, look at what John turned out to be.
It's largely because too many people kissed his ass for too long!
Insults? I've got plenty more for him. Get real
Quoted from Shapeshifter:I remember the day the MG spots became available, advertised on RGP. When I looked there were 6 spots left out of the original 13.
I remember thinking $16k is a huge amount for a pinball. But with only 13 ever made, it could make sense. .
It didn't make "sense" if you were thinking of the machine ever being worth close to $16k on its own.
It only made sense (which I would dispute) if you were greedily thinking, "heh... Who cares what it plays like....Only 13.... I can resell this for a fortune."
And so they bought into the worst part of pinball, the speculative "investor" instead of the hobbiests.... Who DOES makes game for hobbiests? Well, Spooky certainly for one....
Quoted from iceman44:My insults were well deserved and came AFTER many conversations with him
He needed a foot stuck so far up his ass it would make his head pop off
I wasn't hard enough on him. You gotta be kidding me
I don't roll that way, like it or not, look at what John turned out to be.
It's largely because too many people kissed his ass for too long!
Insults? I've got plenty more for him. Get real
So you stand by insults as a method of creating trust between two parties to effect positive change? That's what you said you would do and failed. Or do I need to pull the posts on how you were working with John and "good things" were happening at the same time you were insulting him? Really...
Try and find a supporter of John's beyond StevenP and he's just a good guy trying to help
Sorry Pinballhelp but the "sorry ass business man" doesn't tell the whole story.
Combine that with blatant and continuos lies to vendors and customers
Yeah, let's all kiss John's ass and treat him with kid gloves
Quoted from toyotaboy:» YouTube video
At 13:18 you see why JPOP is an asperger,he is totally confused bij Ben Heck messing with his setup..i just noticed this..check it out,ben,you did that on purpose right??!! LOL
Quoted from PinballHelp:I'm curious if the issue is centered around him really intentionally lying or simply being a really horrible, naive businessperson?
His own words have been quoted here. Very clear deception of the state of the games, production, people hired, money situation. It's black and white actually.
Quoted from chessiv:So you stand by insults as a method of creating trust between two parties to effect positive change? That's what you said you would do and failed. Or do I need to pull the posts on how you were working with John and "good things" were happening at the same time you were insulting him? Really...
Please understand that I TRIED very hard with many conversations with him and promises and statements he was making to me.
You want to choose to attack me for hammering him after the fact, I have ZERO problem with that
I only failed because John would NOT open up his books to me or anybody else for that matter. Including kid glove StevenP
The jig was up and he knew it. Now he gets to pay for it
https://www.youtube.com/embed/_QmUtOqTQr0?autoplay=1&rel=0
At 13:18 you see why JPOP is an asperger,he is totally confused bij Ben Heck messing with his setup..i just noticed this..check it out,ben,you did that on purpose right??!! LOL
Quoted from chessiv:So you stand by insults as a method of creating trust between two parties to effect positive change? That's what you said you would do and failed. Or do I need to pull the posts on how you were working with John and "good things" were happening at the same time you were insulting him? Really...
This is all ancient history now. Ice stepped up in his own way, was rebuffed, and that's that.
Likely that John was unsavable at that point by anyone just rolling up their sleeves and helping out. The lies had gone on for so long, and were unknown to everyone.
Quoted from pinballrockstar:At 13:18 you see why JPOP is an asperger
As in, he has Asperger's or he is an Ass-burger? Either is believable. 
To be clear Cheesiv, I was critical and insulting WAY before my conversations with him, since Expo.
He knew that and we talked about. His unwillingness to disclose financials to me had zip to do with building trust.
In fact, if I wanted to consider being an "investor" he would happily open it up.
Well, Bill found out the state of affairs and the carnage that is left
Quoted from pinballrockstar:https://www.youtube.com/embed/_QmUtOqTQr0?autoplay=1&rel=0
At 13:18 you see why JPOP is an asperger,he is totally confused bij Ben Heck messing with his setup..i just noticed this..check it out,ben,you did that on purpose right??!! LOL
Later, john says Karma from development will be in these games. Can you imagine what type of Karma MG will have?
Quoted from frolic:Ok, I spoke with Bill. We had a good chat. I am not agreeing to anything, or signing anything. I will weigh all options. John still owes me my money or a machine and I will take whatever action I feel about it.
Having said that... I told him we NEED John publicly shamed. If he doesn't want us to sue to destroy him, out of pure spite, which is what I'm feeling, then this is what I want:
John should NOT be allowed to stand beside Magic Girl at this NW show. He should not be given an hour to talk about. He should be denied his "lebowski" moment.
I want my "pound of flesh" and I know this will hurt John in the best way possible. He gets zero time standing there hearing people oooh and awww over the game.
He has lost that privilege. He's freaking lucky he's being spared the shame of bankruptcy by Bill's deal (if it works out).
Bill seems to think he needs John to demo the game and talk about it. I think that can be done by many capable people. And if the game can't be demoed properly without an "expert" standing there, then the game is probably in big trouble anyways.
I feel very strongly that if I see John standing beside that machine will set me over the edge. There needs to be a bit of theater demonstrating in a very visible way that John has lost his baby and is paying penance for his years of lies and deceit.
I don't think anyone could of said it better thank you! John should have no further involvement with any of the projects he's done enough damage.
Quoted from iceman44:Bill has good intentions and you I know have done a lot of work and supported John from day one, and I believe there is a lot of work product there, there should be, its been 4 years.
But, its looking like this is such a Cluster F that its tough to see how you can overcome all of the negative emotions that John has spawned.
The constant lies and exaggerations on his part, over and over again, all while spending our money on his salary and at least in my mind, trying to defraud people into sending more money in knowing full well he was misrepresenting where things were at.
Look at Chris's statement, John basically scammed him into being part of RAZA. Stating that Raza was "almost done", two years ago. And basically every other lied about timeline and BS he's thrown out there. People HATE that!
It's horrendous.
Yep. Not disagreeing or criticizing. Just trying to point out that things already done can't be undone, and when trying to make the best of a bad situation (like getting these games completed and shipped to those who paid for them), emotions don't help the process.
Toronto, ON
Quoted from PinballHelp:Is he some kind of pathological liar who has delusions of grandeur? There does appear to be a trail of people who have worked with him that now aren't, but won't go into great detail as to why?
If you spend some time talking to his former co-workers at WMS, the real story becomes a lot clearer - he's not a pathological liar because he *genuinely believes* the shit he says. The guy is a fruitcake. He lives in a cloudy fantasy land where everything he says is right and he steadfastly refuses to listen to anyone else, ever, regardless of the reality. He also surrounds himself with sycophants and blocks out anyone who doesn't say what he wants to hear. The documentation of that is littered throughout this thread.
Quoted from dgarrett:I apologize for my rant on major, pinballs and sad sack. Major, I know you are a victim in this. Besides, regardless on being $ at risk or just a pinsiders, as a group, we deserve justice as a community. Emotions got the best of me yesterday - and I posted poorly , venting behind the keyboard.
Also, Major, thank you for your service, I do feel bad about my comments, and want to be on everyone's side looking for some positive outcome.
Thanks for reading - I truly am sorry.
Dan
No worries, apology accepted of course. Emotions are high and opinions will differ. Like everyone here, I would love to see a positive outcome for all the true victims of John Popadiuk's fraud. Also, I understand that reputations are built with time and it's easy to assume trollishness from someone new because that's the internet. We're cool on my end. 
Thank you for the classy response.
Agree that the emotion and Monday morning quarterbacking isn't getting us anywhere, but the anger john has fueled must be considered. I seriously doubt I will buy an MG unless it is shipped to me COD. If John gets to speak for an hour and brag about his great innovative designs and his pride that the machine is coming out, I will not buy. I've watched john - he isn't the greatest presenter and really just relied on zombie yeti's art on slides. Put together a real presentation explaining the numbers and convincimg people this will work. This emotion needs to be considered.
I just have to say that something in this thread struck me...
Yeah, people are ticked, rightfully so.
But I think in the last few pages, I've seen a handful of people actually apologize to each other or for angry-posting. Obviously I don't read every single post and thread on the forum, but I can't remember ever seeing this and it's absolutely fantastic to see!
Quoted from NJGecko:But I think in the last few pages, I've seen a handful of people actually apologize to each other or for angry-posting.
Compared to the "old days" on RGP, given the emotions and hard cash involved in this clusterfuck, this thread is amazingly civilized.
Quoted from boo32:There is $1,000 in framing of his own work.
His own, or Zombi Yeti's?
I think we should call that place the Delusion Factory.
I know where $200k went. When he moved out of his garage (dumb) to this shop. $5 k a month for 40 months is $200k.
Nice pics that show another lie as he is not art work pricing his 7 x 14 work week is more BS
So much for the working "24/7 seven days a week" theory.
Ben is working today tweaking AMH code. 
In the face of all this its good to see there is no sense of urgency here with a show reveal coming up and all.
This has nothing to do with "emotions", with a first time public presentation coming in a couple of weeks you would think it would be all hands on deck.
Thanks for the pics btw!
Quoted from danczaz:FYI no PFs in those cabs...
And no spiky leg bolts...
I do like how, on one of the playfield artwork pictures, he has it labeled "platinum plate" because, well, he had to outdo diamond plate, but couldn't come up with something original
Quoted from danczaz:No one there...tinted windows make for bad photos...
image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
Nice!
Is that EM-looking game the EM he was supposedly working on , too?
Quoted from PinballHelp:* Everybody is accusing JPop of malicious fraud and throwing a lot of derogatory comments around. I'm curious if the issue is centered around him really intentionally lying or simply being a really horrible, naive businessperson?
Both. He's been lying to his vendors...clearly they thought they were getting paid, but he wouldn't pay up. He's been lying to the buyers..."It's almost done, it's just about here, big reveal coming soon"...nothing. The fact that he was still trying to take money a few weeks ago while ignoring almost everyone else - that says it all. John has a problem with what he perceives as "being annoyed" - completely forgetting that these people are his vendors and customers. He has no empathy or any ability to see around his own childlike emotions.
Quoted from PinballHelp:Was it "graphic designer gets in way over his head?" Is he some kind of pathological liar who has delusions of grandeur?
Pretty much. Happens all the time - dreamy artist types often live in a reality bubble of their own creation and lack big picture perspective and business sense. In animation, John Kricfalusi (creator of Ren & Stimpy) is a good example...many artists worship him for not only his artwork, but his blunt attitude about artists vs. executives. I love Ren & Stimpy, and he's a great artist....but he CANNOT make a show on budget or on time. It's the reason the show got taken from him in the first place, and every time he's attempted a project since - same thing happens. He wants complete control, no one telling him what to do, how to do it, or when to finish it...and every project ends in failure. The only reason he gets ANYTHING done is due to young inexperienced sycophants working day & night to help him until they burn out. "True Believers" helping out until they just can't take it any longer...sound familiar? Time after time, shit falls apart - but he's the victim...he's the one smarter and better than everyone - they just don't understand him. Rinse, repeat.
Quoted from PinballHelp:Ben Heck, what's the story with you? Y'all were collaborating. Now you're not. Obviously something happened. Did you see the writing on this wall awhile back and cut your losses? I know hindsight is 20/20 but do you think there may have been something you could have said or done to help the situation?
Ben has posted about the fall out many times - including 4 hrs ago:
Quoted from benheck:Thought that was common knowledge. John didn't like me helping Chuck with a "competing" zombie game and told me to make a choice.
Ironically Johns game is now a bunch of aliens and clowns and Chucks game has been rethemed towards horror.
And yes, John has no business sense whatsoever. The guy makes his customers sign NDAs to buy a game featuring Ben Heck with whom he doesn't have a contract or legal agreement for compensation for use of likeness.b49eeba0b7ea5a0f63eb4f9cfaf43439877766abc16b4fe9edc2ff2e08abc1e9.jpg
Quoted from danczaz:No one there...tinted windows make for bad photos...
Huh. So he's NOT working 14/7 or whatever he claimed... 
Edit: Ice beat me to it... 
I'm curious, since some people have said they don't want any part of MG at 16k with 199 of those, and don't want a stripped down 10k version, is there anybody in the group that IS willing to go for the 16k version of MG?
Not talking about the current paid up MG people, the RAZA and AIW folks?
Maybe after all the dust settles there will actually only be 50 or so 16k MG's made if Bill can pull it off.
How about the resale market and product support?
How much of the pinball market is automatically removed as a buyer now and in the future for resale just because Jpop did it?
Quoted from NJGecko:I do like how, on one of the playfield artwork pictures, he has it labeled "platinum plate" because, well, he had to outdo diamond plate, but couldn't come up with something original
Which doesn't even make sense because platinum is just barely harder than silver and less hard than a tooth.
Source: http://www.larsonjewelers.com/Images/metal-comparison-chart.jpg
Why did John need to rent such a nice place? Couldn't he have done his dreamy artsy fartsy work in his garage or basement?
Quoted from iceman44:I'm curious, since some people have said they don't want any part of MG at 16k with 199 of those, and don't want a stripped down 10k version, is there anybody in the group that IS willing to go for the 16k version of MG?
Not talking about the current paid up MG people, the RAZA and AIW folks?
Maybe after all the dust settles there will actually only be 50 or so 16k MG's made if Bill can pull it off.
You can't ask anyone anymore if they'll buy this game sight unseen. But possibly, in a perfect world, if machines are produced, seen at expos, etc, the cheaper version would probably find traction.
Just sent John an email about this - Damn I can be an ass 
John,
I thought you would like to know some people are at your shop and posted pictures. Not sure is they are going to do something or not as you have angered several people.
I'm guessing you working 14 hour days 7 days a week is simply not true.
Quoted from frolic:You can't ask anyone anymore if they'll buy this game sight unseen. But possibly, in a perfect world, if machines are produced, seen at expos, etc, the cheaper version would probably find traction.
Has Bill elaborated on what the "cheaper version" is going to entail? 16k versus 10k?
How much farther stripped down will it have to go?
I get that Bill is hoping people will come in at 16k up to 199 to help finance the whole thing but that's not gonna happen.
Fixing this problem that John created will take a miracle. It's gonna take too long and there are too many other viable options out there today imo.
I really hope his business doesn't need 200 machines sold at $16k. It's just not going to happen. $10k Magic Girls I think will sell, if it is everything its supposed to be.
Quoted from hank527:I'm guessing you working 14 hour days 7 days a week is simply not true.
Well, he could be in the back workshop polishing the vents on the back of his cabinet or trying different coloured circuit boards to see which one has the most Feng-shui.
Villejuif
Quoted from danczaz:No one there...tinted windows make for bad photos...
Thanks for sharing. MG cabinet artwork is gorgeous. It's quite fortunate I do not live closer, because I have to admit I could have felt for it after visiting his shop... No wonder so many of you gave JPop a pass for so long. I would have too.
Could a person like me become a MG / Pintasy customer now? Possibly...but are my conditions:
- no more JPOP, as a consultant or employee.
- priced below $10k (sorry, at $16k the game better come with a rug, Lebowski-style, except this one would be flying!)
- deposit below $1k. No more money until game ships.
- deal with a known manufacturer.
- a long video of gameplay showing code is mature.
Quoted from frolic:I really hope his business doesn't need 200 machines sold at $16k. It's just not going to happen. $10k Magic Girls I think will sell, if it is everything its supposed to be.
Truth, these pins were not remotely worth $16k *except* for they were limited to 13 or 26 units.
Everything ****Everythig****** going forward should be aimed at $9,999.99 there should be no further talk of $16k (IMO).
$16k is twice what MMR costs for gods sake.
Quoted from danczaz:No one there...tinted windows make for bad photos...
How long were you there? Maybe he was pooping. 
Quoted from GLModular:Huh. So he's NOT working 14/7 or whatever he claimed...
I've seen John at 2 in the afternoon and he looks like he just got out of bed, but then again he pretty much always looks like that.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Which doesn't even make sense because platinum is just barely harder than silver and less hard than a tooth.
Source: http://www.larsonjewelers.com/Images/metal-comparison-chart.jpg
For what it's worth, John calls it titanium plate.
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