See? This is how good Dutch Pinball is! They show off an awesome game, and solve Jpop's issues, all with one blow.

I'm pulling for all of you to finally see something real after all this time. I've been a skeptic, and I'm still one, words aren't changing my mind any, but be happy to be shown up on this one.

All income is disposable. Keeping it is the hard part.

I hope I get to play one of these.

To me the Lebowski effect is:

-Show a game and let people play it, that gets people more excited than pictures of art of empty cabinets. Showing a game and letting people play it will get you more customer confidence and pre-orders.

By creating the insular secret club cult bubble to "reward" pre-buyers, he made himself look bad & alienated the rest of the pinball community - and we are POSSIBLE buyers.

Right, I'm just talking about the current moment in time & how it relates to Lebowski. Jpop created a bubble...even some of those in the bubble were getting antsy & wanted to sell their spots. If those in the bubble know very little...how would one expect anyone outside the bubble to pony up the dough for one of these things? That is the Lebowski effect. Transparency & showing a flippable game = chilled out pre-buyers & more sales.

Yeah, I missed the later comment that he was an owner. That's why I deleted my post. You're too quick!

My comment still stands for anyone who thinks ajpop owes them any info if they aren't a customer. Right or wrong, it's the way he chooses to run his business.

That's fine, but you have to understand that he's not going to attract new customers that way (or people to "buy out" a pre-order when someone wants a refund.) That's "The Lebowski effect" vs. "the Jpop effect"

Yea, I really think JPOP was in that "1992 williams" state of mind, to keep everything under lock and key until it's ready to go out the door. I think his KISS license getting taken away really sent him over the top.

maybe after seeing so many companies (other than Stern) being so transparent, and doing just fine in sales that it's okay to show most things (and potentially beneficial), unless you have some mind blowing new toy that nobody has come up with before.

I think the only reason Stern is so locked down is because they don't want outside eyes influencing projects and holding them up.. They want to keep that factory cranking out games, and if some designer feels passionate about a major design change, it'll really hurt the bottom line.

Hopefully john had a come to 'the jesus' moment (along with the lebowski effect) that trying to build customized games for every single customer is suicide. Sure, it's a nice thought, but it's just not viable.

I'm still selling my pre order RAZA spot for $6300.00 and I'm $ 6500.00 into it.

I do have new information about plans for a group to potentially help JPOP out of this mess. We will see what happens and I hope they are successful.

Sure. I understand that. I hope he does as well. I don't really care what anyone says here about his business. That's their opinion. What annoys me is people's sarcastic attitudes that John owes anyone outside his customers.

He had a KISS license to begin with?!?

We're all potential customers.

Nah, he was fishing for it, hoping to get it. Lost the battle to Stern.

Do we know this for a fact? Stern doing Kiss is just a rumor at this point.

What John needs more than anything is someone to tell him no when it needs to be said. On his own, he's forever changing things which just drags the schedule out longer and longer. As great as he may be as a designer/artist/idea man, he really needs a business-mind to steer the ship.

I hope things come together. I'd love to see his games completed, because I'm sure (at the VERY least) they'll look awesome. Hopefully they'll play just as well, too.

We know they have the license, yes. When will they act on it? No idea.

As one of the original buyers when RAZA (BHZA at the time) was announced, I can tell you that one of the main reasons I got out was due to the complete lack of any information regarding the status of the project. There was no communication at all. If wanted to know something, you had to call or email John. Half the reason I got it is because I wanted to have fun, "enjoy the ride" so to speak, by watching things develop and progress along the way. When it became obvious that this wasn't going to happen, it just didn't make sense for me to stay in.

Things have apparently been a little better since I got out, with John posting some things on the blog etc. but it still doesn't sound like there's a whole lot of info being provided, especially in terms of pictures, which is probably due to his fear of being copied (some might call it paranoia).

Just assuming the game won't be a complete working prototype till Decembers reveal. The game will be about a 10-12 months before they ship. UL testing, having vendors make the parts in final design quantity with quality control from jpop, wire harness builds, building the actual games. U won't see mg ship soon, but we will see the quality and craftsmanship by December.

I would but he still hasnt emailed me back my pass code! I don't even know where to look for it!

dmesserly said:

Give it a rest, will ya? He doesn't owe anyone except his customers anything.

Seeing that Bill aka Wcbrandes is in on all 3 of jpop's I think you misunderstood

Two! I'm a hard ass, I want to wait to see one before the third, plus I went and put money on TBL and Hobbit. I think there is one more out there but I forget at the moment I'm the poster boy for Barnum and Bailey's most famous quote!

Well, I take no pleasure in winning the bet. It'd would have been cool if you'd got your games by Xmas.

However, drinking your beer will elicit pleasure.

Hmmmmmm an ethical quandary!

And how will we get a case of Modelo from Texas to Auckland? Logistics!

Or the local supermarket is doing 24 Coronas for $42 NZD ....

Ohhhh I wish we had a Walmart with $9 Dozens ... But hey, we don't ...

Good news that JPOP has a production dude. I did make that comment about the time we made the bet ... Or maybe before that. Creative ideas dudes like JPOP (I know a few like him...) need someone to focus them on the job in hand. Otherwise nothing ever gets done. So today is a step in the right direction. I hope he employed the right guy.

rd.

Jpop told me in person Stern came in half way through and scooped it on him. Its Gene Simmons...its all about the money not the art or game play!

And that makes Gene different from any other licenser how?

None/most of them couldn't care less about pinball. They just want a check.

There was a comment made in the Hobbit thread that the licenser didn't want Smaug to be hit with the ball or "interact" with the ball.

Well, considering BALROG gets hit with the ball in LOTR, and you shoot the ball through the ring, etc etc etc, you'd have to question that, wouldn't you ...?

rd.

RD never said he was any different which is exactly why Jpop should have never gone there in the first place and more importantly why I have money down on Jpop's designs!

Maybe JPOP chased the KISS licence because like it or not KISS = $$$$

1000+ KISS games sure sounds better than 20 Magic Girls money wise.

Anyways, I hope these prototypes show up in December as promised.

rd.

Good it will be another Rolling Stones for them I'm sure

Who knows...maybe Stern had already been trying to get it for years - after all, Stern music games ARE a thing.....maybe Kiss looked at these two pinball companies and said "one has a factory and just made thousands of Metallica & AC/DCs and the other one is just some guy who's made nothing"...

I'm sure most will disagree, but in my view of the world, if Stern knew Jpop was in talks with them and swooped in to take it, while not illegal by any means, does strike me as scummy.

If they did not know and it was just something they were pursuing since they have been doing a series of old rock and roll bands, then no harm no foul.

If KISS liked the idea from jpop, and decided to shop it around and brought it to Stern, then hard to hold it against Stern, but would have been nice if they passed on it, if they knew Jpop had been pursuing it. Not saying I would have expected Stern to do that, but would like to see that type of behavior in such a small ecosystem, no matter how unrealistic that is.

This was the way of the world when capcom,Wms, and data east ruled. Welcome to the Buisness world

Gary told me in February that they had been chasing KISS for years but Gene wanted a lump sum payment up front and that always killed the deal.

So no "scummy" involved here. Gene just came to his senses in the end.

rd.

Bummer! To think what might have been
image-248.jpgimage-8.jpgimage-759.jpgimage-278.jpgimage-272.jpg

Why'd he waste time on Kiss game if he's working on and selling pre-orders on 3 others?

That's bad ass!

No offense to anyone but that layout doesn't look all that interesting, I mean the game is beautiful but that red Gene Simmons in the middle just isn't doing it for me...what do you guys think?

Edit: maybe the game is missing ramps and other things....if so nevermind.

Stern probably did the Jpop, MG, RAZA and AIW pre-pay guys a favour anyway (in a round-a-bout way), also in business, and no doubt with someone like Jpop, there will/should always be backup plans and ideas should shit meet fan at any point.

Edit: no doubt that Kiss looks great but would anyone bet against the next-in-line Jpop pin looking awesome as well?

It's not a finished playfield ie no ramps ect.. I'm guessing the finished product would of been BA!

I prefer original themes far more than licensed ones. JPop is a master of originality. I was actually not very excited when I heard he was doing Alice in Wonderland. Him not doing KISS is no biggie to me because the theme is just so not my thing.

Seriously I want to know what Zid games #4, #5, and #6 are gonna be. You guys laugh but I need to know. These JPop games are like Pokemon to me. I gotta catch and collect them all!

pokemon games.jpg

JPop = J "Effin' Bad Ass" Pop"pin' Vagine"

Assuming he has the money, or the help to put the engine in the train.

Stern had been courting KISS for many years, but KISS always wanted too much $$$$$ up front.

When Stern told KISS that their largest selling pin ever was AC/DC, KISS suddenly accepted Stern's terms.

-

Jpop was never even in the running to make the KISS pin. His company has no track record of producing any product at all.

KISS is a merchandising company, not likely to invest time in vaporware.

Yeah another point about the kiss thing is that they wouldn't want just 150 to be made.. Theyd want unlimited. So, I am not sure why Jpop even pursued it as it wouldn't fit his boutique model.. Let alone why he spent all that energy on a mockup.

I'm sure it was simply a fun diversion.

Everybody that was cool, loved KISS in their youth.

Kids painted their vans, drew on their notebooks, painted their faces for Halloween.

Jpop got to crank off for a few weeks of childhood fantasy.

Well, and it was a project he did with a dying friend who is now passed. Hard to hold that against wanting to fulfill a dying friend's wish.