Just being a thread lurker and following this shit show since I joined Pinside and I've come to the conclusion that this Iceman guy should just shut up now. Broken record much, guy? Everyone can make their own decision and discuss without you cheerleading for them to lose more money. Over and over with the comment that you can't wait to John to tell everyone to fuck off and claim bankruptcy? Classy.

Don't sign that paper!!

bartsellshissoul.jpg

Keep in mind the bulk of the customers are RAZA paid in at $6500.

For either version of MG they need to pay about $9000 more.

$9000 is a very good estimate for BOM + labor of MG.

Once again it's not John's money on the line, or (very much) of the investor's - it's YOURS!

Don't fall for this trick. Time to walk away from the blackjack table.

Yes, please let this die. Do not sign the agreement. It only restricts your rights. Please remember that there is no investor, only someone who is buying the Magic Girl license. I know I've said this a couple of times before, but read the contract! Zidware is still 100% on the hook for all their liabilities! Signing this gets no one closer to a machine, only further away from being able to do anything about it. This *new deal* is still a crowd funded project, a project that has went no where in 4 years.

I've been reading this thread with interest. Wow, has it taken off since that bizarre email/proposed new agreement from Jpop!

I paid Jpop $20,245.00 in total- $15,995.00 for MG (full payment) and $4,250.00 towards RAZA. This was mostly via PayPal, but partly via SWIFT bank transfers. Unlike Jpop, I keep rigorous records.

I've probably been one of the more patient pre-orderers, but that ends now. After collating paperwork, I emailed Jpop earlier today with a final request before legal action for a full refund, giving him a deadline of (you'll like this) 1st June. If I get no response, then I'll sue Jpop via Zane D Smith & Associates. I already phoned their offices yesterday, and am in phone and email contact. I believe they had a number of people contact them yesterday about this issue...

Realistically, I'm not optimistic about getting any/much money back, but as a point of principle Mr Popadiuk needs to be held to account for his behaviour, and needs to experience consequences. In addition to the clear breach of contract (not delivering MG by a deadline stated in the contract), it seems highly likely that fraud has been committed, given that $1 million has been spent (on what, exactly?).

I hope that other pre-orderers will do the same as me, and please don't sign that new agreement!

On a personal note, this experience has really poisoned my interest in pinball (I also paid for Predator!), and I think (stating the obvious) that this issue has had a very damaging effect on pinball generally. Shame on John Popadiuk for all of this. I am appalled by his behaviour, which goes far beyond simple incompetence.

John has lied with every word that comes out of his mouth, now he sais he has no money for refunds and we all believe that?

I seriously doubt he spent all the money and further he does have assets. I am not sure what is considered protected or not, not sure how his company is incorporated. But his assets at the shop include his cabinets, his 3D printer, his computers.

Plus, I'd bet he has other assets that can be reached via bankruptcy.

I just don't believe he has no assets left and that if everyone takes the bait and switches over to the next MG (which I doubt will be made, and if it is made there is NO guarantee that it will play well, it can be the next WWE LE for all we know). So who want's that at this point?

If John want's to avoid chapter 7 (or whatever court ordered liquidation) and I was still on RAZA. I would certainly sue for breach of contract. There is just no way I'd pay extra to move up to a MG.

Maybe MG owners are in a different position. They already wanted MG, they already were planning on a $16k pin. RAZA owners wanted a RAZA, they didn't want to spend $16K.

My advice, especially if you are not in on MG, is to sue John. You can't say he has no money left until he's forced to refund or liquidate.

Very sage advice, Ben. Time to cut the losses.

BTW I just wanted to say how impressed I've been by how honourably you've behaved through all this. I'm a great fan of your hacking shows too

I fully agree with you.

I got my refund 6 months ago, I was not as patient as all you guys. I was feeling hinky about John for a long while. Several years of posts on his blog of mechanisms and artwork but nothing that looked like a playing pin. I figured at best he was still several years out. At the worse, I figured that he was where he really is.

I said above, John has lied every step of the way. Now he sais he's broke and we're supposed to believe that?

I don't know what type of incorporation his company is he personally may be liable for the damages he caused, he has not opened his books but this is not just a case of being a poor businessman it's a case of reckless and deliberate fraud same as Kevin.

I believe his leasing a large complex was totally wrong and reckless. He should have noticed that burning many thousands of dollars a month for the number of months he was letting pass that the numbers didn't add up.

I am sure he has known for a long while that his numbers didn't add up and also that he was dicking around for 4 years and still has no prototype. And yet he still goes on collecting for AIW?

You guys may know me, I rarely (almost never) speak bad of anyone. But John is a complete and total S___Bag and a total P_S.

I can totally understand being soured by this. The sad part is if it does sour you on pinball on a whole. Pinball is still the most wonderful hobby you can have. It's still filled with great people for the most part. This situation will never happen again in this form, it's dead, no one will hopefully have to go through it again. Just remember it's John that has soured you not this awesome game

I'm in the same boat, overall soured on the hobby right now. Between this shitshow and Jack acting like a secretive d-bag about the delays on Hobbit (another pre-order I have) I'm just fed up. I don't even want to look at the ToTAN or CV that I own. I have half a mind to burn them in the Zidware parking lot to show John what I really think of him. I'm closer to liquidating my collection and getting out of the hobby than I have ever been. Just has not been fun for a while now. Sad!

This has scarred me from pre-orders, but I had a lot of fun playing my TWD LE last night with code update.

Exactly! I've had it with listening to people say he's just a really bad business man. Nobody could run a business into the ground this badly, not even an imbecile. A 12 year old could manage money better. This guy has lied and schemed from the onset of this. This is nothing short of criminal and he's still trying to play people. The guy deserves to lose everything.
And there are people still wanting to play along just to get their rare pin. Damn I'm in the wrong line of work.

I'm feeling the same way, except I have no Jpop pins to burn. I'm really trying to be patient thinking if I sell all of my pins I might regret it down the road. I can't even enjoy playing them anymore without thinking of the butt load of cash I literally threw away. It's sickening really.

it is fraud , it was fraud , just plain fraud

Iceman44 has lost all credibility with me. Sounds almost like he is getting paid to spew this crap.

The whole hobby just feel different to me. Scammers selling vaporware machines (although wayne-o is an old school version of this phenomenon), other vendors obscuring the truth and treating people like dicks when they ask legit questions about delays (JJP), etc, etc. Even this place has turned sour in so many ways. This place used to be much more upbeat. I left RGP to come here because everyone there turned into jaded asshats. Have they all come here? More negativity here than is constructive.

There's some exciting stuff on the horizon with Heighway and hopefully P3, I just don't know if I care any more. We'll see.

Maybe watching John get drawn and quartered will lift my spirits?

I'm interested in how you managed to get a refund when no else could. I've been trying for months with no response.

First, condolences.

Second, I would direct you to the parallel SkitB thread, specifically, many of those that were similarly scammed have had success reversing charges with pp/their funding CC companies - even though the charges occurred pretty far in the past.

An earlier post quoted John as asking for paypal payment as recently as 10 days ago, so it's certainly feasible that account is still active....

You may have already covered all this ground, but wanted to mention it had you (wisely) avoided that train wreck....

WOW, just wow.

It's really hard to believe it has all come to this...and this is the second time something like this has happened in the last few months.

I hope the pre-order folks get something back out.

Geesh.

I was hesitant to say earlier, I didn't want to be called out by Jpop loyalists saying that I was trying to bring down the project. I had posted on the Jpop blog some critical posts like Frolic and some people would say just leave John alone he's working hard etc..

So for a very long time maybe a year plus I was disillusioned with John. I mean his posts about mechs and art were fun in the beginning but around 2013-14 I thought he should have had a real playable pin of both MG and RAZA. So I was posting to John what's the deal are you just farting around? We need to see progress all this minutia is killing me.

So I was beating around the bush with John since before the Expo but he said the Expo would have a nice reveal.

Immediately after Expo I sent him this:

-----

John,

I want to say, how many people were very let down about the expo, it was my belief that you were going to show some serious progress towards a finished game or two. When we saw pictures of the empty cabinets, this is not what I consider serious progress. Also, it was said that you showed the back glass art for a second but put it quickly away so no one could take a picture of it. I hope you can see this is not seen in a positive light.

People are beginning to get seriously worried if the games will ever be made, people are trying to sell their spots or get refunds, it's very hard to sell a spot when no one wants to buy, and the reason is because you are not showing us anything. I hear the shop tour is great, but guess what? Most can't make the tour, why can't you show us what you show the shop tour people? We signed NDA just like people on tour.

I want to ask if you are going to give us more info, more timely production or the option to get a refund because this is way beyond the original timeline as in way past and still no flipping prototype.

------

John replied back that he wanted to invite me to his shop and show me around.

I said, no thanks, give me my pin or give me my money back. After that, I began to email him and text him every day to see what the status of my refund was. Myself and another pinsider sent him a certified demand letter this was around December 2014 and finally he sent us a refund early 2015.

I just want to know what some of you people do for a living that $24,000 can be sent to someone without anything but a promise and a reputation. I'm doing it wrong obviously

Were just the stupid ones that do no due diligence and just give our money away this is why we can do this in the first place

Pinside has played a part in all this. It has helped facilitate two of the largest scams in pinball history. Something should change.

yes looking back it's easy. It's almost like the frogs in the boiling water. John asked for $1000, followed by $750 followed by $1750 (etc..). It's not as if most people were paying $24K at one time.

But looking back it it's easier to say it was not smart. but at the time and when the timeline was near (like 2013 I believe) it was more like people were paying they thought for pins that were imminent. (much like The Hobbit, I might add).

People were more confident at the beginning and as the months became years and there was not any prototype, then people might have got freaked out. But, John had inserted a clause that you could only get a refund in the first 90 days or some horsehsit and after that time, you get a refund when John sells you spot again. It's much like Predator, when there was a waiting list you could get a refund and the next owner gets screwed. In fact I took over someone else's spot originally.

So by the time people got fed up with Jpoop they thought they couldn't get a refund.

When I first asked for a refund, he sent me a letter, I was supposed to sign this letter stating I was giving up my spot, and I would agree to the terms that I would get my refund when John sold my spot.

I emailed John and said, not only am I not signing that letter, I am going to wipe my ass with that letter. I said keep your letter and give me my refund or see you in court.

Here are the attorney's details in case anyone wants to join the class action for breach of contract

Zane D. Smith & Associates, Ltd.
415 North LaSalle Street, Suite 501
Chicago, IL 60654
(312) 245-0031
(312) 245-0022 Fax
[email protected]

I myself just blame my beautiful addiction to pinball

I think the best statement so far! opps read it wrong

One thing that has really bugged me in this whole process is Jpop's use of bloody legal agreements! Ooh we're having so much arty, rebellious, creative fun. Now sign here. Yep, and there. That's it, just one more there. Now let's parteeeeee!

What a muppet.

this is the most open shut case of breach of contract.

Yeah blame pinside, like John. Idiot.

Something should change, alright, but not with Pinside. It's pretty clear in my mind where the blame lies in these recent scandals.

with all the help offered jpop to get these games done, and his constant willingness to not accept it shows me he had/has zero interest in completing these. not paying vendors and trying to accept money from paypal just 10 days ago!!!! shows the true character and hubris of this guy.

this was a cash grab all along and is criminal, he has more money then he is letting on, don't let him off the hook.

in his twisted mind he probably justifies his actions by thinking that these are spoiled rich people that can afford to be out a few grand.

jpop is a criminal and should be held accountable for all the crap he put you guys through.

jplops new digs.jpg

I understand you don't agree with him but how about not attacking him personally.

Pinsid

Let me just make a statement here...
Pinside has never officially endorsed these guys. We never said "go out and throw your money at them" or anything like that. Nor did we censor them. We aren't here to tell people where they should spend their hard earned money. Each person made a conscious decision to place orders as they see fit, and if it was based on information learned from this forum, that's perfectly fine...there are currently over 29,000 pinsiders, and they have a lot of information and opinions.

I understand people are really upset..and looking for places to point fingers. I'm floored by this whole thing too, but folks, Pinside didn't facilitate anything here.

That is mine, you cant use it.

Blaming Pinside is like blaming Facebook for cyber bullying.

People like Kevin Kulek and John Popadiuk acted like criminals and they should be treated that way.

Good intentions or not, they both lied to try and save their own asses and stole a whole lot of money.

Why do I care if I'm not a direct victim?

1. I don't like to see people get taken advantage of, no matter how much or little money they have.

2. Instead of being a man and owning up to it all, he tries to concoct some scheme with legal papers saying you basically have to leave him alone for 4 years? Not to mention that MG is 2 years away and RAZA/AIW are 4-5 years away? "I want my cake and I want to eat it too."

3. I've busted my ass for my entire life to get what little I have. All my life, my ideas and skills have been constrained by money. JPop gets everything necessary to make his dream happen handed to him on a silver platter, and he doesn't take it seriously enough to do it properly? Fuck him.

Pinside was where concerned owners first started talking, and John now blames for his demise. It's just a forum for both good and bad.

I gave myself a week break from this thread, as I just couldn't take it anymore...but the above. Oh my god...someone put JPop in jail please. "Almost sold out"...better hurry and let me steal your money should have been what he said.

+1,000,000

I think Jpop's email, more than anything, shows the criminal intent here. He is not even slightly repentant for what he has done, and will do it again if given the opportunity.

This is my favorite part - because I have created, purchased, and sold many businesses in the last 25 years. And, yes, I have been burned - particularly to the tune of $3 Million in "shareholder loans."

Let me translate how that works:

1) Invest $3 Million in a business with one owner who controls the cash.

2) Forget to include salary restrictions on that owner when you invest.

3) Owner "pays himself" a huge bonus one week, say $2.5 million.

4) A few days later, the owner deposits $2.4 Million back into the corporate account. This is a shareholder loan to the company.

5) Looking at the monthly numbers (just totals), things look in order. I never notice it.

6) Years go by.

7) You have a buyer for the company at $4.5 Million.

You are notified that there are $2.4 Million in outstanding shareholder loans that get paid before you.

9) You learn an expensive lesson.

John is no dummy. He had no restrictions on the money. He paid it all to himself first, and, out of the goodness of his heart, loaned it back to Zidware. That way, he is first in line as a creditor. That is why he is paying nobody! The language of "shareholder loans" was not included accidentally. By signing it, you are acknowledging that "John has outstanding loans and you were made aware of this."

EDIT: = 8.

If that's real John does need jail time.

Sorry, I duplicated myself instead of editing. Jim

Was adding this line - In other words, he can still make claims for any new money deposited towards loans he is owed.

Pinside consists of its members. If Pinside is the blame, then it's really just us that are to blame. It's all nothing more than pretzel logic anyway. JOHN is to blame. Period.

Where are all the Pinside lawyer wannabees that usually offer useless legal advice when it's not needed? Instead of everyone giving their version of what a criminal John is, let's state the case, here and now. How can we compile evidence to prove in a court that what John did was indeed a criminal act. State your case lawyers.

Any owners who feel they can offer help and who want to figure out the best way to proceed, feel feel to PM me. I am not signing this contract and want to proceed to get John to pay for what he has done, whether it be by forcing bankruptcy, or having him put in jail for fraud. He must not get away with what he has done and must pay a heavy price for his deception and flagrant disregard for peoples hard earned money.

I just sent John this email. I have thought things through and we have only 2 options.

Option 1. Pursue legal and criminal charges against Jpoop

Option 2. Maybe convince Jpoop to give his company away with the new owner assuming all liabilities. This way John gets $0 for his company, but the new owner gets zidware for the whatever the cost of John's current liabilities are. John may avoid the countless lawsuits and jail under option 2.

Email I sent John after talking with some people who are heavily invested in these Games.

Magic Girl

10:49 AM (5 minutes ago)

to John, John,

John,

I'm hearing some sort of letter was sent out regarding the current status of your company.

1. I want to advise you that Zidware may not not have any value. A proper business validation would have your liabilities much greater than any potential assets. The only value would be if you could convince a group of people that future sales are worth more than what your liabilities are. After talking with some other customer's and vendors of yours I am convinced that this is probably not the case.

2. With this in mind please find someone who is willing to absorb your current liability and make us owners whole. If you think you can get out of this mess without finding a buyer who will make us whole, you are sadly mistaken. If you have to give your company away, I would advise you to take that deal.

3. We are forming an owners group with the intentions to demonstrate a ponzi scheme was orchestrated by Zidware. We believe have enough evidence to build this case against you. The evidence includes an email that was sent two weeks ago indicating Alice in Wonderland was almost sold out and that the potential buyer should send money.

4. As a collective group, we will be pursuing all and any legal options to recover lost funds. We want to be made whole.

We have spoken in the past and I wanted to share this with you so that you can seek the appropriate legal council and make any future decisions regarding Zidware with sound legal advice from an expert.

--
Sent from myMail app for Android

John A. Popadiuk, Jr., John Popadiuk

.

Well said. I really, REALLY hope no one signed the new agreement. If they did, they certainly aren't part of pinside and are under Jpop's spell.

Whoever is the new licensee needs to revise the agreement. You can't possibly think you can outsmart Pinsiders with that nonsense. What's shocking is that the agreement must have been looked at, touched up, proofread, corrected, revised multiple times, put in the oven, cooled down and STILL came out the way it did. Disgusting.

You want to know the smartest thing John did right at the start of all this? He had everyone involved sign an NDA. Everyone.

That put the fear of talking into everyone and this helped him drag this out for has long as he has.

I'll bet there are STILL people here that are afraid to say something because they still think that the NDA they signed is still valid.

I love how you put that in there

It's real all right. I was told about it two days ago, and the recipient asked me to post it.

rd.