Alice in Wonderland
Gottlieb, 1948
Houdini
American Pinball, 2017
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012Quoted from Concretehardt:Ok your right "what's the point" I won't post info in this thread anymore as it has clearly upset you! I will keep any new info on the private owners group.... After all its not like this is the "JPOP update thread"
Unless you're just being sarcastic....Lighten up Francis. We are all intrigued.
Or is it really all about Pin Chili?
Seeing Magic Girl play a 3 ball game will at least demonstrate it is not complete vaporware.
I challenged him to do it, if it can be done, then there is a hope in hell.
A lot is riding on this video. I just hope it isn't some kind of faked video with fixed camera angles on parts of the playfield but not the whole thing, etc.
More tricks and obfuscation will just fan the flames.
Quoted from frolic:More tricks and obfuscation will just fan the flames.
If player in video is David Copperfield or Penn or Teller, I won't trust what my eyes see. 
Quoted from Concretehardt:Ok your right "what's the point" I won't post info in this thread anymore as it has clearly upset you! I will keep any new info on the private owners group.... After all its not like this is the "JPOP update thread"
Please no, keep posting here. Otherwise we will only get negative updates here.
Most pinsiders (which are not JPOP owners) sincerely wish this project to succeed.
Quoted from frolic:I just hope it isn't some kind of faked video with fixed camera angles on parts of the playfield but not the whole thing, etc.
More tricks and obfuscation will just fan the flames.
It's like when you see those camouflaged prototype cars on the road.
Makes you crazy to see the final version.
gt5_corvettec7proto_6.jpgThe constant need for people to be negative, and be right at the expense of others continues to amaze me. It is not hard to see why a group of owners branched out to create more private groups. An actual (potential) positive update and 75% of the responses are either flat out negative or seriously sarcastic. I'm one of the "owners" but I'm also a realist. I started considering my money gone 5 month ago. That said, a positive update is a positive update. People have clamored to see a flipping game because they didn't believe he had one. Now at the word that there might be proof he has one, all of a sudden that doesn't matter any more? WTF?!
I understand and TOTALLY agree that there are still huge hurdles and this doesn't make me all of a sudden assume I'm getting a game. That said, if John is closer than we thought, and has something confirmed to be really cool, how is that not a good thing? It doesn't erase all the bad to this point and it certainly doesn't ensure any success moving forward, but it is still a positive step in the right direction.
Apparently that doesn't matter what-so-ever to all the armchair quarterbacks. For some time now, the noise to value ratio in this thread, particularly from people with absolutely no stake in this, is embarrassing.
It's great, I'd love to see the video, where is it? How long does it take to upload a video?
How long does it take from video to actual delivery of a pin? We've seen Predator videos 3 years ago, so there is no proof that video = shipping games.
John may have a video soon (yippie!!) (I've not seen it), after 3 years he gets a video, what does that mean another 3 years till delivery?
Quoted from rai:How long does it take to upload a video?
Considering he wrote this about RAZA On Feb 27:
Should have some good full shots by “eod” tomorrow. Will try to get the zombie monkey filmed tonight.
And we are still waiting for that video, apparently a looooooong time.
It's hard not to be cynical after all we've been through.
How is it so hard to not respect the folks involved? back off a bit. Maybe it does not go anywhere but you guys piling on now is the wrong time. Yes I do believe it has helped but now at least give this a few days and see what is shown.
Quoted from Cheeks:The constant need for people to be negative, and be right at the expense of others continues to amaze me.
just from the backlash and constant short attention span updates that this forum seems to need, should be enough to make any pinball manufacturer, not want to even do preorders for things. It's things like this, is the reason they shoot movies in secret. can't bitch and complain about the progress of something you don't know exists. Maybe this will teach people making machines, to make them secretly and don't reveal until the shit is done and ready to be sold and taken away at the show. Would save a lot of headache for the manufacturer. Can take as long as they like, and tweak things out until they are satisfied with the end result. And won't hear shit about it from anyone.
full disclosure
I don't have a pre order
I don't think any opinion positive or negative will effect whether or not it gets made.
good luck to those involved,Im hoping for the best possible solution for all y'all.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:just from the backlash and constant short attention span updates that this forum seems to need, should be enough to make any pinball manufacturer, not want to even do preorders for things. It's things like this, is the reason they shoot movies in secret. can't bitch and complain about the progress of something you don't know exists. Maybe this will teach people making machines, to make them secretly and don't reveal until the shit is done and ready to be sold and taken away at the show. Would save a lot of headache for the manufacturer. Can take as long as they like, and tweak things out until they are satisfied with the end result. And won't hear shit about it from anyone.
That would be flipping awesome, but John needed pre-order sales to even get this thing off the ground. I doubt anybody was hoping the could find someone to send their hard-earned money to, in hopes of a games in 5 years time.
If John had self financed this thing, well, 1) he'd be more motivated to get product out the door so he can start collecting money and 2) No one can complain about delays.
Look at Heighway again... he's been talking about Full Throttle being released as early as 2013, but there was delays, he did the Bacardi thing, they redesigned the game from standard to wide body, but no one complained because no one had money tied up.
I was one of the first pre-orders, with $1k sent 6 months ago, and only the 50% was paid a few weeks back (AFTER he showed the factory and parts arriving). There are more delays with production, but in the grand scheme its a relatively small wait so no one is screaming bloody murder.
But Andrew is a business guy first, getting grants from the local township to set up his biz there, private financing, so no shock he's able to finish the job.
Jpop is an "artist" (his words), and we did the worst thing we could probably do... we gave an "artist" a million bucks.
Anyhow, this is all spilled milk now. The pre-order model is forever changed for pinball. This is where jpop is really screwed going forward, he will never get the money he needs to complete Alice from crowd sourcing, EVEN if he ships MG (lets forget about RAZA). Not enough people will ever trust him.
The sad fact is, at the 11th hour when he's out of money he is now "scrambling" to put out a video showing a working MG game. The customers should have been allowed to follow the design process and have full knowledge of the progress of their game all along anyways, which has not happened. This video is not a true Mea Culpa, in that John believes he is doing the customers a favor by showing it. I have a feeling the only reason we are going to see this is so he can try and access more pre-order $, and collect final payments for MG and RAZA.
Nobody is going to give more money to somebody who manages his timelines and business in the way John has, which has necessitated this hail mary sneak peek. It's not that it doesn't matter that he now has a working game to show us, but more importantly whether he has one or not, there is no trust in his business or ability to take it forward successfully. There is no more pre-order money coming whether MG is flipping or not.
All thanks to Concrete who came out with the news (and if you're annoyed by pinchili just put him on ignore, don't stop posting news here).
Did I miss the video? Or was this just a pre-announcment that there will be a video? Man I hate pre-announcements almost as much as pre-orders.
Quoted from rai:Did I miss the video? Or was this just a pre-announcment that there will be a video? Man I hate pre-announcements almost as much as pre-orders.
Pre.
Quoted from frolic:I was one of the first pre-orders, with $1k sent 6 months ago, and only the 50% was paid a few weeks back (AFTER he showed the factory and parts arriving). There are more delays with production, but in the grand scheme its a relatively small wait so no one is screaming bloody murder.
I hope you are right, and this isn't a failed boutique pre-order flavor of the week. Sounds exciting; when are you supposed to receive your machine?
Quoted from retro_p:I hope you are right, and this isn't a failed boutique pre-order flavor of the week. Sounds exciting; when are you supposed to receive your machine?
Nah, Heighway is legit. Games are on the line now, just waiting for a few parts that weren't up to spec. Last I heard shipping was within the next few weeks.
Quoted from Concretehardt:I just got an email from JPOP it sounds like he has a couple pinsiders there and they are "playing MG"... He said they are shooting video, hopefully it gets posted to to the blogs & Facebook soon.
Congratulations, sign me up for one if it looks good. There is one thing that separates business people from the rest of the world. They re-evaluate a situation whenever necessary. Very excited for you all, and I wish you the best of luck. Even if it isn't a game changer, it is progress.
Quoted from Warbleboopie:There is one thing that separates business people from the rest of the world. They re-evaluate a situation whenever necessary.
I would hope it isn't just business people, we'd have a lot of problems if engineers didn't re-evaluate the situation every once in a while... 
Quoted from Warbleboopie:Okay, I tried, you guys are on your own.
1) John has already lied to me.
2) John does not know what an IPO means. I do not know how to umm...explain...how bad this is...
3) John knows so little that he asked for an art sample from me. I offered to run product development for him without taking a salary or even asking for compensation. And he asked me for an art sample.
MIT, bunch of degrees, multiple startup successes, bunch of languages, currently employed with a badass employer, sick Python skills. But I am also a card player and can read people. The read is bad. The read is very bad. You guys all need to get what you can from him in terms of materials and partially finished game with or without software and finish it yourself. He has boards and translates or backglasses whatever he made you need to just take the raw materials and take over the project. Don't worry about his patents, they look like they're trash. If you aren't willing to take over the project yourselves you won't get anything.
Quoted from Warbleboopie:Congratulations, sign me up for one if it looks good.
Quoted from scott_freeman:Sorry, no room for original zombies,
he wanted more cats and borrowed IP.
Original this... 
Quoted from toyotaboy:If the lebowski effect still hasn't set in, how about the canadian hobbyist effect?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/future-pinball-designers-thread#post-2414332
No sh*t, right? A flipping whitewood, what a unicorn!
Second cool whitewood on this thread. Sure glad something cool came out of this otherwise waste of space. Still no updates? 
I know he's working "7x14" on getting the MG video done, but just last week he posted this on the raza blog:
Gonna’ get back on more blogging, 2 times a week
That was the last post, April 21, 8 days ago.
I don't think anything is going to change.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/yJNhunVTLOI?autoplay=1&rel=0 
from the LIONMAN thread
Quoted from frolic:I know he's working "7x14" on getting the MG video done, but just last week he posted this on the raza blog:
That was the last post, April 21, 8 days ago.
I don't think anything is going to change.
Quoted from frolic:"Making pinball videos is hard"
The video is done, but he needs to edit it you know.
Quoted from frolic:That was the last post, April 21, 8 days ago.
I don't think anything is going to change.
NOTHING that comes out of John's mouth can ever be relied on.
Once again, just telling people what they want to hear.
It may not really matter in the grand scheme of things, I know, but for CRYING OUT LOUD, please at least make an attempt to do what you say you are going to do. Give us a video of your dog if nothing else.
Words that came out of your own mouth, again, and you can't even live up to your own simple little promise, AGAIN.
That is what is so frustrating about John, he lies, just doesn't care and will simply say anything at the time with no intention of ever following through.
HOW, can you ever support a person like that, that keeps doing it over and over again. Sorry, but its just a simple character thing with me, try and do the simple little things that you say you are going to do.
He may get a video out, I hope so, he may find a way to get these pins out one day, with the right help, I hope so, BUT, I just can't put up with a guy that LYING and BS ing people is just part of his nature, like SkitB.
I do not believe any of us really thought he would start providing two updates per week.
I did fall for Pinsider's playing MG and video will be coming soon thing though...
Quoted from iceman44:but for CRYING OUT LOUD, please at least make an attempt to do what you say you are going to do. Give us a video of your dog if nothing,.
You are enticing john to pull out a video from his heyday 
johnnyboy.jpgQuoted from TigerLaw:I do not believe any of us really thought he would start providing two updates per week.
I did fall for Pinsider's playing MG and video will be coming soon thing though...
Sounds like a line from a mid grade comedy:
John will be providing two updates per week going forwards: Jack and Squat (and squat just left town...).
Can we just start referring to JPop as JDirt? At least Joe Dirt still brings a smile to my face...
Unfortunately, right now JPop reminds me more of Dean in Fubar: He just goes out and "gives 'er 110%", without any actual plan...
Hopefully that at least puts a smile on someone's face... I apparently have a weak spot for mullet movies.
Quoted from TigerLaw:I do not believe any of us really thought he would start providing two updates per week.
I did fall for Pinsider's playing MG and video will be coming soon thing though...
I played MG the last two days.
That wasn't a lie.
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:I played MG the last two days.
That wasn't a lie.
That is really great news!
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:I played MG the last two days.
That wasn't a lie.
Million dollar question: How complete is it and does it play well?
I will be unsurprised if you are unable to answer publicly, but I figure it can't hurt to ask...
This is actually some good news 
Posted 6 months ago:
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:Three prototypes are near complete too
What was the state of them "near complete" 6 months ago and how does that differ from today?
If they weren't "near complete" then, as opposed to being "near complete" this week, why tell us they were "near complete" 6 months ago?
6 months is a long time, that is 2,500+ man hours of work from jpop working 7x14.
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:I played MG the last two days.
That wasn't a lie.
Quoted from frolic:Posted 6 months ago:
What was the state of them "near complete" 6 months ago and how does that differ from today?
If they weren't "near complete" then, as opposed to being "near complete" this week, why tell us they were "near complete" 6 months ago?
6 months is a long time, that is 2,500+ man hours of work from jpop working 7x14.
Can we try not to shoot the messenger here guys.
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:I played MG the last two days.
That wasn't a lie.
Another pinsider falls prey to JPop's jedi mind tricks....
Jesus man, spit it out - you know what everyone on here wants to hear if you actually spent the last two days playing the game.
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