Yes, but AIW is also *supposedly* limited to 133 units.

Even if Jjp gave him free reign of using his entire board system...he would still need two programmers for a year from Jjp to make the game working..

JPop games are going to be so exclusive that virtually no one will have one! Or is that literally.........................?

What you have mention above is "Larceny by Conversion". By the amounts sent in by consumers I would add "Grand" to it. Or were you a investor?

I eventually would love to do a community-built machine. I'd like to lead a project here on Pinside where everyone who wants to contribute does so, and we all collectively decide on theme, toys, shots, etc....

I'm not going to take that on while Spaceballs is in development though, so it's going to be a while. If someone else wanted to run it, I wouldn't mind that either.

This post is a question for Zombie Yeti only because I don't think I can PM him an image.

Besides it is related to this thread in an obscure way.

I was going to have a Cameo on the RAZA playful and was given this from John as a gift of friendship.

I was completely under the impression that John drew this.

My question is did you do this piece of art or John?

Who deserves the credit?

Its still a nice gift and it does look just like me a Zombie that I am.

Thanks

OK guys sorry for the hijack.

1393862_3494027325597_374827891_n.jpg

Ugh, bad flashbacks... I hope you're not implying that limited pre-orders of boutique pins is still fully alive and well.

Better alternative: 1. Build 2. Sell to demand.

Was it? I just though that John had jumped on the "LE" bandwagon and was going to do an "LE" AIW, but otherwise, it was unlimited? If it was truly limited to 133 total, then it's even MORE of a financial management trainwreck.

Not an investor, just a contractor/vendor.

I think it's more about the terms of the license. Maybe they'll find a way to make more, I think it will sell out pretty fast. We'll see!

At least your picture looks like you! (probably before you have had coffee)

Supposedly one of the characters on MG was based on me, but the drawing of it that I saw didn't bear much (if any) resemblance. The picture was sent to me on 10/2012.

I seriously could not think of a worse experience than expanding the concept of "Design by Committee" to an entire internet forum. I'd sooner drag my scrote through 6 miles of glass, but good luck to you if you are serious about it. You'll need it!

Sort of off-topic, but the Mondo guys consistently get big rights holders to sign off on very stylized illustration for their movie poster series, so I'm wondering what they're doing right. Is it because it's small, limited edition runs of posters versus a wide-release game? I wouldn't think it made much difference.

Here's some examples of them for people to see what I'm talking about. Imagine pinball machines with this level of artwork!

back-to-the-future-mondo.jpgReturn of the Jedi.jpgironman_786_poster.jpgansinbride_528_poster.jpg

When do they plan on announcing the title?

(sorry, I meant to quote the Mondo Posters guy)

It is not that hard to get a license if you are a well-established company with money, AN ATTORNEY and a track record. Those Mondo posters are typically $300+ each and they typically have runs of about 325. I've rarely seen them get re-run. That tells me that they gross about $100K per poster and usually the license will run about $50K. They can net about $50K per poster. Pretty good deal for posters. I hope that helps.

Slow down guys - I need to catch up

Let me try to hit all i can...

First- Aurich hit me up almost immediately after posting and has been a great supporter so big thanks man!

Second - Licensed art can be a bitch for approvals. A recent example - I'm part of Marvel's official Avengers:AOU show (opens friday in LA at Hero Complex Gallery if anyones in the area) I watched as a LOT of amazing work was killed during the process based on actors management and Marvels. I got thru because I went HULK hahaa (maybe that's why).

That said - I'm also working on some super stylized BluRay covers for some classic films (NDA can't say atm) and the process appears relatively painless so far.

And MONDO artists are great at what they do - no question! But they also have decent budgets and audiences. I can say I've NEVER had a budget close to the ones I've heard

Eddie - I did that. And it's even inked & colored full body on the RAZA playfiled! I think early on I was def meant to exist in the shadows for John - and I have zero ego in that regards so i didn't mind. I've learned a lot over the years though

Again I want to thank everyone for the support - I do so much work that I never get to show or discuss for all kinds of clients (I'm a jack of all trades I'm told) and I swear most fans I have only like the dark stuff hahaa my own fault I guess for the name

Lastly - thanks to you guys people have been reaching out - hopefully something rad can come out of it for us all and I'll gladly push to share any development process here on pinside!

It's definitely not impossible. I'm a Mondo collector myself, one of the posters hanging behind me is from Alien. It's an incredible illustration. Make a terrible translite, way too dark, but I love the art.

My understanding is that even if you can get a brand to play ball with that, it's often a much harder (and longer) process to go through for approvals. I don't know how Mondo does it, but they can afford to spend however long they need for a poster to get approved I would think, they sell out in 4 minutes, they practically should be investigated for printing money.

When you have a pinball that's on a schedule, where the art is just one part of a lot of other moving parts it's not really as easy to do that. If a studio says to you "you can go this route, and we can fast track approval, or you can go this other route, and it's going to be a long process" it's hard as a manufacturer to want to pick choice 2. That's a long delay before you can show art to people, it's a long delay where your line isn't building anything, it's a real headache for working out the playfield design, etc.

When Alien was announced, long before I was involved, I posted that I'd love to see hand drawn art myself. Andrew replied that it wasn't in the cards, see reasons above for why that's probably a reasonable answer. I can't really talk about what's going on with it now, but I will say that I'm doing my best to bring something original to the table, and not a copy and paste job. I'll talk about it more once we're free to show things. I appreciate everyone who's been ridiculously supportive of me being on the project, and I'll try to meet the expectations you've set to the best of my ability, within the limits of the project.

I think it's fabulous that the community is rallying behind Zombie Yeti, it does my heart good to see hand drawn art on pinballs championed. If there's anything I can do to further that then believe me, I will. I'm a fan too.

Maybe in the aftermarket but they're usually about $30-$50 on the site. I think your estimates are off a bit.

http://mondotees.com/collections/posters

The posters are for specific film screenings, so there is a definite deadline involved - usually only a couple of months. So the mystery of how they do it but pinball can't continues.

Talking to people involved, it turns out that licensing has changed *a lot* since the 90s. They used to get *all* media with a license - video, stills, music, voice talent, everything. But now they need to negotiate each piece separately. Licensing has become a cash cow business, which unfortunately is somewhat "ruining" pinball a bit in that the current players don't have the same freedoms.

Anyway, that's all off-topic on Popaduik stealing people's money.

I am talking about the original 325 they print on premium licenses, not reprints or B and C licenses. Check eBay, they regularly sell for $2,000-$10,000 in the resale market.

Hey now, I think most of us here would rate "Cannibal Holocaust" right up there with Raiders of the Lost Ark ...

Thanks so much for getting back and thanks so much for the Art. All of my friends say it looks just like me.
You deserve the rightful credit and all along I thought John had done it.
I always wondered why he wanted a pic of me posed as a Zombie when he knew what I looked like LOL.
This thread made me question that.
I would like to know what it looks like in color but anyway your piece now hangs in my Gameroom where proper credit will be observed.

Yeah, $50ish is about right, a little more for some of the variants. They obviously do well, but not quite *that* well. The aftermarket is where it gets nuts, and unfortunately it's kind of ruined the whole thing. There are sniper bots that snatch things up faster than anyone can compete with, and then they're flipped on ebay for those kinds of crazy prices.

Sucks, because the people buying them are just looking to cash out, and the collectors get soaked, and Mondo doesn't even see that money, and neither do the artists. It's soured me quite a bit on the whole thing. I have 4 framed behind me now, and a 5th in a tube still, but I'm probably not going to keep buying now.

This could not happen to a nicer group of pinheads. I hope yall realize the company you are in here. Some legendary pinheads are in on this project - if it is true that misery loves company then there is that at least.

We were the JPOP dreamers! (Meme needed) (maybe Internet cat?)

Now i can't get a refund.

I bought a few Mondo posters at SDCC 2013. They were $50 each. Some worth 10x that as soon as you walk out the front door of the show.

I used to be a poster maker and it was a constant conversation among the artists about how to deal with flippers. No one has come up with a real solution to the problem - even open editions don't solve the problem.

Sorry, this thread can get back on track AFTER I plug my favorite Mondo Movie Poster Art:JurassicPark-10_1024x1024.jpg
(It's the part where the attorney gets eaten;It always makes me cheer. No offense StevenP)

That's only true for some of the posters though. You're right, they do cool Alamo Drafthouse stuff for certain dates, but I think a lot, if not the bulk, of what they do isn't tied to a specific event. Of the 5 I own only one is actually from an event (Army of Darkness).

I imagine they have awesome contacts and connections now, and probably have the whole thing down to about as smooth as such a bitch of a process can get. I'm sure there are still awesome ideas left on the cutting room floor though.

This is so true. Want a movie license? Sure, pay this. Oh, you wanted to use a line from the movie? Negotiate that with the actor separately. Oh, you wanted the music from the film? We have a separate subsidiary that handles that you'll have to talk to.

I'm used to working with brands and style guides and all that, plenty of huge companies you've all heard of, but the movie industry is an entirely different beast.

Hey, it's a much more interesting, and positive, conversation! And it's really not that off topic if you think about it, because the whole beauty and allure of John's pitch was freedom from all of that. Original ideas, no corporate chains, pinball free to be pinball.

I'm fairly certain they don't do reprints. That is pretty much a guaranteed reputation killer for any art publisher. The recent (like, two days ago recent) Wizard of Oz prints were only $40 each (three variant editions of 175 each) and there was a Back to the Future II print earlier in the month were $50 and $75 for the variant. Most of the artists that Mondo employees do not have the reputation to command $300 per print. Not that they are not a talented lot, its just that Mondo are not commissioning Shag or Mark Ryden for stylized licensed print work.

Yeah, no reprints, closed editions, with very few exceptions. Like they did that Superman print as a limited run, but limited to as many pre-orders as they could get.

I imagine they're at the point now where there's a certain prestige in getting a Mondo print of your film. It's less commercial, and more fine art.

Pinball, for better or for worse, is a commercial amusement thing. Not many people see them as we do, or appreciate them as we do. Get your brand on a lunch box, a video game, a pinball, a box of fruit snacks. Not all that different. Maybe with the collector market growth that's shifted a little, but you're still dealing with the same licensing department.

Look at this example. We're talking about a company that does comic books. They sure as hell understand hand drawn art. There were like 50 variant covers for the Star Wars comic launch recently. And yet they're shutting down ideas that aren't "on brand" etc. License holders can be very particular and protective.

Jeremy are you going to the opening?

I enjoy challenges like that and I'm fairly competent at sifting through internet trolls and bs.

Who knows when I will actually get around to it though, it's just a pipe dream at this point. My boards for Spaceballs will be here in 2 weeks at most, then it's heads down on that for a while.

I won't be there - I'm coaching my daughters tee ball team and our first game is saturday so I'll be watching 1st graders picking grass while balls roll by them instead - I've been told that the HCG VIP event (for artists and marvel) will have some pretty heavy folks from the Marvel Films in attendance You're not too far from there? I can talk to the folks and see if i can get you to replace me - just call yourself yeti

As for licensing work - little anecdotal experience - I did some work for lucasfilm and star wars 2 years ago and they were very easy to work with - not one revision at all!? I was sweating bullets the whole time and it was smooth sailing - makes a HUGE difference in the creative process to be relaxed as i'm sure you know.

Exactly! Licensing departments probably deal with so many requests for product producers that just want to put a stock IP photo on there crap that they are pretty much geared only to do just that. Requests that want to deviate from the norm by even stylizing are probably outright rejected, more often than not, simply because there is no way to effectively deal with the approval process. I imagine it boils down to a "more trouble than its worth" situation, in most cases.

Piece of cake. You guys look like twins.

I'll just put on a zombie mask and wander around clutching a Cintiq Companion, no one will be the wiser!

Ha, that's awesome. My younger daughter is in second grade, and I coach her soccer team. Same deal, just a bigger ball.

Lucasfilm has a pretty awesome rep for being super open. They've really embraced all the fan films etc and given people a lot of latitude, which seems incredibly smart to me. I think the Disney acquisition is a really good thing for the movies themselves, they know how to put the right smart and passionate people in charge of brands and let them do their thing, it's why the Marvel movies have done so well, but I do worry a bit that their rep for being tolerant of people using their IP isn't nearly as friendly.

Since this topic has sorta gone off the rails (not that the diversion was not welcome), thought it might be a good time to ask if anyone has heard from JPOP (by anyone, I guess I mean StevenP) since he posted his incoherent rant? I fear this is just going to fizzle on forever. I am so looking forward to something real and different...Alien, Spooky's next, TBL production, ZY original theme....so sick of the negative bs and WWE.

Nice to see you have your priorities straight. Enjoy your work btw, keep pumping that IG account.

I guess the question is what has to happen to stop that? I mean, I think we all know John's out of money now. Not paying Zombie Yeti has to be the final straw for that. Can he keep paying rent on that huge workshop? It's not like he was working out of his basement, there are costs that have to be maintained. The Texas investor seems to have walked, JJP passed (if that was even serious), what's left really?

I just can't see an outside investor coming in, there's no end game there that makes sense as far as ROI. It would have to be a passion project. And that leaves what? Owners banding together? Does anyone feel strongly enough about this to risk more money in trying to buy John out?

I mean, normally the pinball designer is pretty done at this stage. You pass it on to the next people. So in theory you could buy out John, meaning get everything and *not* him along with it, and put together a team to finish the engineering and production hurdles and find a programmer. But it really only works if you either:

a) Just take a bath, pay more for the game then you planned, and get the process going

b) Throw out the limited nature of things and try and get the BOM to a point where you could reasonably put them on the market to recoup the investment.

Both come with some pretty big downsides for the original owners, assuming that such a plan could even be pulled off. Lot of ifs.

I can't see any other option right now, John's simply not gonna get it done. We have to all agree on that by now, right?

Anyone who doesn't is completely delusional.

First off- I don't want to give anyone false hope OR hang my own NDA'd neck - but I will say that a feeling in my vaguely informed gut says that I would not give up hope just yet... hopefully we all hear more sooner than later... and hopefully it's good news

I finally got a call back from him, he told me that MG is almost finished, we can all relax now

[nevermind...]

How big can I get that BTTF one?

Very good question. I have long held the theory that the workshop was a far larger drain on overall resources than most people might think. I do not know how much a space like that goes for, (I think some numbers were thrown out some time back) but 3+ years of that can't be small money.

It was just one of the many things (leasing that large space) that baffled me when I was working with Zidware.

ebay.com link: Back to the Future Phantom City Creative Mondo Limited Edition

18" x 24" each so 54" x 24" for the set.

ouch. They are awesome tho. I wants it!

Sort of my take too...glad Aurich didn't take it as such, but comment seemed a bit aggressive..... AURICH WILL ROCK ALIEN....PERIOD!!!!....mark

One thing to keep in mind is that they didn't come up with the term "Gettin JPOPed" in the last year, this has been a reputation a long time in the making. I heard about people not getting paid years ago. So unless he ran out of money very early on, it is very much just part of his business ethics to not pay people after he changes his mind on something, regardless of what was agreed to.

What I am saying is, it is possible that he is out of money given the amount of time that has lapsed, but it is also possible that he still as a significant amount of money (Insufficient to actually build these things or give full refunds as you can't go 5 years without spending something) but just CHOOSES not to pay people, because JPOP gonna JPOP, yo.

Agreed. A pinhead with a critical eye controlling the art on a bad assed liscence. Zero worries on that front.