Given the seriousness of the situation with John not even responding to refund requests (or any request) can you elaborate on what lie you caught him in?

Shocker!

MrBill.jpg

Given John's erratic behavior and inability to make any real progress (not to mention you clearly can't get a refund if you want one) who in their right mind would pre-order a game at this point?

Combine that with the fact that John will never give up control of any of the work to date and this solution is quickly ruled out I think.

I'm thinking that almost none of the current owners would agree to this unless it is shown that JPop has some type of investor that will basically be taking over the project. There is a hell of a lot more going on here than him being out of money (or not being able to make a profit), so why would owners agree to a higher production number when he can't even make a few of them now?

John has been so obstinate about this, I just don't know how anything can change. He won't even admit that money is an obstacle.

Has he changed a SINGLE thing about how he operates? He is literally at the shop toiling away today, same as he was in 2012, with nothing changed about it.

That would still make them extremely rare games.

I'm ok with 250 RAZA but I want a discount off the 10G price tag for the 3 year intrest free loan I gave to John.

Where do I send my money?

PM sent.

Beat me to it.

Seriously Iceman, I can't believe there is any scenario where you would consider loaning more money to John. The best thing you can do is get law enforcement involved and a lawyer. Explain that John has reneged on his agreement to refund and you've sent numerous requests. More pressure needs to be put on John to start being honest and transparent.

The only way these things get done is if john is completely removed from the project.

Don't do that man. I'd rather work with you and build any pinball game you want, for free if you pay for everything, than see you throw money down a black hole.

I can do the engineering, we could get FAST involved for the hardware and code, and maybe even convince Aurich to do the art.

I just don't want to see anyone lose more money.

PM responded to. Would you prefer cash?

No investor would step in with the ridiculous limits he has in place though. Only way buying him out makes any sense at all is to drop the limits, compensate the original owners in one fashion or another, and open the market.

That won't do much good for $17k machines, you'd have to figure out the BOM and price reasonably.

If I had the money to buy him out I'd making firing him one of the conditions of the sale though. Buy the designs and get someone to finish them and let him go do whatever, but nothing with the games. Because really.

At the very, very least, you have to have complete override and veto power, and the ability to just do what needs to be done with or without his cooperation.

Ice, I'd save your money man. If you're desperate to become a pinball sugar daddy you can do a lot more with your cash than this.

OK, now we KNOW you've been drinking!

.

Hey, Heighway has proved that I'm happy to be involved in serious projects!

Seriously though, what would it take to buy out John? A million at least just to cover the debts? And then what else? To get what? Some broken, non-functioncal games and some art. Zombie Yettie does great work, but it didn't cost a million to hire him.

Take that money, and talk to Spooky about investing in getting them a real factory line and some assets, it will go 100x further.

Ok, I'll do it.

Dream team? Lol there certainly is a crew of us eager to create some rad pinball. Baggage free!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

a small collaborative effort between groups of specialists would certainly seem to have more chance of success than some guy making drawings in a studio and designing hinges from scratch...

Ice, you been drinking some pretty potent koolaid. When you mentioned helping fund if production numbers were increased i just about threw-up in my mouth.

I for one would like to see that newly designed "hinge".

Speaking of when is the last time someone on pinside was at Jpops shop?

I don't think Ice has been drinking. I think his proposal to increase build numbers in order to make such a project realistic is totally logical. I agree, increased numbers are the only chance this whole thing still might fly.

QSS

I would be far more interested in buying a new pin from the hypothetical group of pinhead SMEs than from jpop.

That's understating it, as I would not buy anything from jpop, ever. It does not matter to me the price or the product. In my mind the dishonesty puts him on the level of Vonnie D, Mad Amusements, Choggard, or Kevin Kulek.

So in reference to Ice's idea of increasing the run sizes to get things done, I'd only consider buying a pin if jpop had no affiliation with the new company.

Fund it! Handing John more money is exactly what this project needs!!

(Back to munching popcorn)

Throw that money toward Brian Eddy or Dennis Nordman if you want to spark my interest.

Ice

Just know that there could be a larger number of buyers for these games if they were actually made, however it may be more like 100 MG and 100 RAZA or some totally different mix. I think putting an artificial number is counterproductive as what if MG turns out real well and not RAZA basically you'd have people with money who could not buy MG because of a limit and may not want RAZA.

My point is at $16k MG will be self limited. But if it's desired, it may be a cash cow, after all it costs the same to code 100 games as it does to code 50. Artwork also best to not have a limit on either and let the market decide.

IMO.

And remove Jpop from anything except as designer role.

Never played AMH, but Spooky cannot compete in the art department. It doesn't really matter who you want to bring up, no one can touch JPOP for his art. Spooky would design functional machines, but they just won't look anything like a JPop game which is why people threw money at him to begin with.

I absolutely agree, and I may be in the minority. It's just one guy's opinion, if you were estimating potential orders

Why can't someone else hire jpop's artist?

Dennis Nordman quit Alien, the game goes on without him.

Joe Balcer left Hobbit some time ago, the game goes on without him.

Designers don't need to shepherd a game till the end.

IF I invested in this, I would fire jpop. Whatever good he brought to this, that point is long past. He can't stay on as a designer, he would only cause problems.

The games need to be taken away and finished by people who know how to get things done. Then there's a chance in hell.

What was Jpop's last game? Star Wars Episode 1? He did finish that one didn't he?

Please don't tell me your serious Iceman!! This would only reinforce in his mind that people want his games so he must be doing something right. I honestly can't believe I read that man!!

Uh, you do realize Jpop doesn't do any of the art? Like none of it, right? None of the games he did at Williams. None of the games he's not finishing at Zidware. He designs playfields, he doesn't draw them. I think he's probably a good art director, his pins have a certain consistency that says he knows how to work with people and ask for things the right way, but that's it.

So yeah, lots of people can touch him for his art. Frankly you could probably hire any of the people who've done art for him.

Beyond that, I happen to know who's doing the art for Spooky's next pin, and if I had to choose between a game done by said artist and Zombie Yettie (who's work I really like) I'd take the Spooky artist. The package for their next game could be absolutely killer. Spooky can absolutely compete, they just have to hire a bad ass artist, which is all Jpop did. It's not that hard really.

I do like Zombie Yettie's art. It's very comic-book like, not unlike 80s-era pins. He could do well on his own with other companies.

John can't do 300 production games in his lifetime much less mine. I'm up to making the number needed to get 're done. MAKE MY PIN

Majority of owners are already behind this idea should it happen.

Want to get a game done quick? I have a secret whitewood I could wire up in about a month or two. A few people on here have seen it... Who should I send it to for programming? Fast? Then off to arch for art?

That's exactly what I forgot to add to my previous post. Increasing production is a good idea as long as john boy and his vaporware operation have virtually nothing to do with it going forward. It's the only hope.

QSS