Hey thanks Ice, keep us posted. In the event, it turns out he doesn't have enough cash flow to produce the games at this time and just a matter of getting remaining payments to get them done, we are all still stuck where we are and going in circles.
At this point, I don't think anyone wants to send him more cash until we see the results as Frolic mentioned with a new timeline. If he can demonstrate to you the numbers will work, the best plan is likely for him to get a loan from the bank.

They are both lawyers, so I vote that they are both full of shit!

I think JPOP needs to sell his game assets to Stern or JJP. Let them finish the game and pay JPOP as a consultant with the power to fire him if he doesn't perform. It would kill him to see someone take over his baby which would act as motivation.

It's quite possible both are...
The no refunds might be a new decision

lol

Ice, would John allow people to come in and help assemble games? I know he is not even that far yet but if he were to get that far Im sure there would be some who would love to be part of the process and help get these games together. I would certainly do it IF I were allowed to buy a game once they were all assembled.

If you'll recall, for an extra $1000 JPop or Ben Heck would deliver your unassembled game and help you assemble it.

Thinking about this some more, since we're talking about. It's freaking crazy we're at the end of March, when the Magic Girl reveal was December, and we still don't have playable games to show.

I know I'm restating the obvious, but his development style is so screwed up its not funny. Those Magic Girls are key to everything. Finish the prototypes, build 19 games. That is not a Mount Everest type of challenge.

Ben Heck? Hell Yeah!! JPop? No thanks.

Phew... just ducked back into this thread for some nice relaxing atmosphere. That Predator thread is crazy . Nothing in jpop's world can be as f'd up as that. We have hope!!!

The Ben option: "OK customer, let's get this thing built!"

The JPop option: "OK, let's build this pin right after we remodel your house so that it complements the artwork of RAZA."

"... and I know the perfect place to start with the remodeling -- door hinges. Don't mind if I say so myself, but I know a few things about hinges", JPOP was overheard saying.

Haha yeah 1k to have jpop assemble the machine plus room and board for a year

I literally lol'ed.

And that's just for the cabinet!

Boom boom tish!!

rd.

Then he could sleep in the cabinet.

To create a comfortable bed, first line it with shredded NDAs.

Sorta like a rats nest? Hmmmmm

I keeeed!

rd

lol #1 thread post!

That "we will assemble it!" sounds like John Math...

2 round trip flights within US: $1000
Shipping machine: $325
2 nights hotel X 2 people: $400
Ben Heck 8 hours labor: $1000

Total: $2725 Net loss ($1725)

Math. The basic skill to have before starting a business.

So, Ben.... you're not coming to my house?

Best post in this entire thread and basically sums it all up. People can defend JPOP all they want, but when you remove emotion and pride, the facts and logic prevail. From the beginning people just gave John too much credit. They assumed the games he designed in the past were 100% his accomplishments.........Wrong!! John was part of a team of talent, that many here so easily forget when they hold him in such high regard. I bet those same people would be shocked to know many of Michelangelo's greatest pieces were done by his apprentices, but he got all the credit.

You have better luck getting these machines if you were to pay Ben his hourly rate for him to go knock down Jpop's door, take whatever he has to date, order the remainder and have Ben personally build this for you and deliver it to your house.

Barring that, you might as well look to pred for how this mess will turn out.

Nah, not interested in that job.

What if these games don't even shoot well? In theory they should, but I've never even seen a ball roll across one in a video, or in person.

Predator sucked ass but at least they brought it to shows.

$1000/day...that's a damn good rate. $125/hr. No wonder JPOPs broke at those rates!

I like the honesty. Predator did suck ass. I was always told "it wasn't set up right" every time I played it.

Ben, on a serious note. If you find yourself in Toronto, you ARE invited to my house. We'll do bbq and pinball.

This is probably old news (and ancient history), but I'm really curious what happened between you and John -- you two partnered on BHZA for a while, right?

This will fill you in:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6mg-raza-and-aiw%E2%80%A6?tu=benheck

Thanks

John didn't like that I was helping Chuck out, since Chuck had a competing zombie game.

Not that I cared, wasn't my idea to be in the game anyway and I didn't have any creative input.

I'm shocked ya'll didn't get your pitchforks out a year ago, with that pointless KISS thing he clearly spent a lot of time on.

As a bystander that's where I lost faith. As an owner, that's where I would have lost my patience.

We've talked about the Kiss thing at the time. For me personally, it was a last request for a dying friend, who has since passed. So, hard to get angry over that. But even if we cut him the slack at the time over it, that is ancient history now.

Expo 2014 for me.

I agree on Kiss. I was surprised these issues didn't come to a head back then. I think what happened is the art looked so amazing on the Kiss machine that in some strange, twisted way, it fed the excitement of JPOP making machines. They related the progress of the Kiss machine to his other projects instead of realizing John was essentially out of control.......The "denial Koolaid" is powerful stuff. I think the disaster with SkitB is waking people up.....Although I would argue, they still have a long way to go before they are fully awoken. If JPOP doesn't work with Ice and show real progress, this story will get ugly real fast.

FWIW I appreciate the effort you have put into getting answers from JPOP. We need more of this not less. I hope you reconsider. There may still be time to save this project from enountering the same fate as Predator by asking the tough questions and not accepting silence as an answer.

Yeah, the truth is, as Aaron found out the hard way, you can get burned trying to help someone who's got issues. I dunno if John is the liar Kevin is, but there's a reason he hasn't shown shit yet. And you can't just swoop in and change him into a new person.

I think you should walk away, so should FAST and Mission, and realize you can't save the world. This is all on John, not you.

I'm not disagreeing. I just want to clarify the distinction in working for us to get our games out and working for JPOP. I don't consider Ice to be a JPOP insider.

You are 100% right that anything that happens is on John's shoulders. He has no one to blame but himself.

I have asked for a refund on both games which I believe I will never see. I may just walk away from pinball after this.

We can only hope that the Skit-B scandal will finally serve as a wake up call to John. Perhaps seeing the worst case scenario unfold like this will be the slap in the face that he needs to start taking his customers seriously.

I'm not even sure what can be uncovered with jpop that comes close to skit-b, that could bring him down just like that.

Ok, so we wanted to see his finances, and we'll probably learn all the money is gone and he has none to build machines with. Well, we knew this.

We'll learn he stiffed vendors, but that came from him running out of money and he was too proud to admit that happened so he left people hanging. Well, we knew this as well.

The road map to success for John is the same as it was yesterday. Finish those prototypes, build the 19 magic girls, get them out so he's not a joke, then sell more magic girls to raise more money.

I think I speak for all of us when I say that your efforts in attempting to remedy this situation are highly appreciated.

The problem is........For this pin to get finished JPOP needs to be removed from the project......Which is not going to happen.

He cares greatly about reputation, he's not going to want to be tarred with the same brush skit-b is getting and have that be part of his pinball bio for all of history. Maybe that can be the catalyst.

I for one appreciate what you have been doing Ice, but I feel now is not the time for us to sit back. We have for too long which let John get us all in the situation we are in now.
Now is the time to lay into him and force him to get his shit together. If he won't then we legally force him.
I know I'm not alone in saying I care about my money.