It's the lack of information than causes the negativity. There's nothing else to talk about. Here we are 4 years into development and even after the Magic Girl blog got opened up, since there is no "game", everything is old news.

Blogging is a true waste of John's time, at this point. Finish the games, worry about the book later.

Have you ever considered that maybe it's you that this thread doesn't pertain to? Somebody not interested in public opinion of this project? The blog was made for what you are describing. Go ahead and drain this thread if you want.

For some of us this is our pinball community with many different interests. As an example EMs, dont like them. So I dont pop in and shit all over their threads. Why because I respect that and allow them to have a place to discuss.
Its not just me. In every thread about a new game you will see the same thing. Read Blondetalls post in Predator.
Not saying only buyers speak but how about folks with no skin on a situation be a little more respectful. If nothing else understand the feelings and emotions of those involved. Its just common courtesy.
But in the end, that part is your choice.

But it would only take 15 minutes to pull out his phone and shoot some video and upload it.

Sound familiar? You don't want to be part of the community, go be in your buyers club. The community is not limited to those who specifically paid for MG and RAZA.

There are new games that I follow because I like buying new games in general that I am not in on. Ben Heck just posted a great best case and worst case scenario in another thread. Folks who are not in can add a lot to the subject. Vs the people who want to make those invested feel bad.
This is about being community vs crapping on folks.
You seem to want to ignore the point. Your choice.

Who is making you "feel bad" in this thread?

Can't I be indignant at Popaduik's behaviour and *also* be very interested in updates? That's why I follow this thread.

of course and hopefully a little sarcastic and funny.

Its really just a few folks who jump in screaming fire everyone demand your money back etc etc.
Just fanning flames for the joy of misery.
Or when I say it matters its pointing out that the fun comments are that but remember who really is at stake is the buyers.
Either way it is a forum.

I completely agree and know exactly how you feel as I am in the Predator boat... We have a few bystanders who feed on negativity. Guess everyone has a right to express his opinion, but when non-owners dominate the thread, it becomes annoying.

(trying not to become a nuisance on this one)

I'm finding the non-buyers to be the ones willing to point out the reality of the situation to the starry eyed owners who have been run over roughshod with gag orders, legal threats and the possibility of losing their money if they speak the truth. At the end of all this if any actual games get shipped it will be because of the people who questioned John and forced him to reveal the truth after 4 years of using the investors money as leverage against them. Some of those are owners, some of them are jilted vendors or partners, and some of them are just concerned members of pinside.

Just for you, Dave.

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Over 5000 entries in this thread and precious little, if any, progress. The facts speak for themselves.

Good luck on your visit. If I were in town, I'd invite you to crash at my place, if you're staying overnight. At least the weather is a lot warmer than a couple of weeks ago, but not quite as warm as Boerne.

Oh damn!! You are my hero razorback!!

You're welcome!

It was in the 60s over the weekend, so all of the snow from the recent blizzard finally melted.

Disappointing to hear. Thanks for the update and your effort. SSDD.

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Any time. Stay the course. Let's see some more boutique pins get made!

You're a good man, Ice. I don't care what Maverick says about you.

Seriously, though, kudos for the transparency and follow-through.

I agree. Thank you.

Anybody surprised?

Yeah this whole "I'm too busy working to respond" is so played out.

The last blog post was Feb 27... "Bolting it up"... even on Feb 27th he was clinging to the lie that he was going to present us a finished game.

Since then we've had nothing. Well, he opened the Magic Girl blog up.... but that is such a feeble accomplishment (opening up a blog to the public), I can't believe we are praising him for it. That is like an old lady praising her little dog for taking a nice dump.

Nothing substantive has changed. I don't believe though we have the power to make him change anything. He had a heart to heart with ice like 2 weeks ago, and now we're back to him ignoring us?

Ice felt positive at first, but that relies on John actually changing and he doesn't seem capable of that.

I was thinking. Yes that is dangerous but if everyone who has a horse in this race started demanding their money back wouldn't that force Jpoop to either shit or get off the pot? I mean if you threaten to take all that money back, that he doesn't have, he would either have to get off his ass and produce something or at least admit that he isn't going to produce anything and either issue refunds or one of you law dogs could start a lawsuit against him. I don't want to be negative and now I have no money invested in this but this looks like a classic Wayno pooch screw to me. Except, I think Wayno never intended to put out a game. He wanted the money to start his company and after he did he started issuing refunds when people started asking for them.

Get money back? haha. I had to bail after my first payment due to Hurricane Sandy and John never sent me my refundable deposit back. I have called and emailed many times. As far as im concerned I’m still on the project bc he has my deposit. Everyone getting their money back? That’s a good one.

As stated above, he's good at ignoring people. Customers, vendors, everyone.

Sue his ass then. Was it not said that the money would be refundable?

Neither are professionals, thats what it boils down to. One is an eccentric kook and the other one is a naive guy in a basement.

Unfortunately pinballs are a complex engineering and manufacturing task that shouldn't be left to non professionals. Hindsight 20/20 I know.

Well I would have to agree with the Ice man. I am not quite sure where all the money went when he is certainly not paying those who have sent product and or put in the time. We are talking close to 1 million US here or 1.2 CDN . If hes not even paying "cost" for LED's then I really am stumped on this one. Ice can we ask him for a "state of affairs", on the money and have him prove it? I would think if a lawyer friend is spouting he has plenty then why not just show and prove it so we can figure out the next steps ie paying off the vendors that need to be paid (repairing bridges). If this is not done then there really is no hope as who will supply product when never get paid? Lets just get right to the bottom SHOW US THE MONEY

At least Kevin paid his bills (until proved otherwise)
At least JPop is not supposed to deal with licence issues

Not putting down Ben and Charlie and crew by saying this, because they're getting shit done where no one else could, but they're not like crazy factory pros or anything. They're just some smart dudes who grinded it out until they got things done. No drama, no bullshit. Spooky proves it can be done. Just takes effort and a willingness to do what it takes to get there.

So yeah, it's work, and it's hard, but it's just a freaking pinball machine. It's not *that* hard.

Setting up an operation like Stern has? That's some crazy work. But little boutique runs, of 20 machines? Maybe not the most efficient and cheap way to do things, but it's not rocket science either.

Well I'm glad you put that out there, Ice. It was the conversations I had with Chris and the programmer that really led me to having to air out the non-payment issues with Zidware.

The scary thought is, there may be others.

Wow, this turned dark overnight!

Hey Popaduik, answer the phone!

I guess what im sating is that I'm not sure Charlie or Ben would get butthurt by being called professionals I could be wrong though

Some would disagree!

I said it before and I'll say it again... as an auditor and accountant I see this often. When vendors aren't getting paid, assistants are released for no reason, and an owner/manager stops paying themselves, there is no money left in the business. If he collected 17k*25 Magic Girl = $425k. RAZA $10k*100? RAZA is supposedly a run of 124 but I don't think they're all paid in full, same with MG. Say there is $1M for RAZA dollars.

Total cash: $1,425,000
Annual cost of studio: $100,000
Annual Employees (Artists/John): $80,000
Annual Computer/software/equipment: $5,000
$185k * 4 years = $740k

Capital assets over the 4 yrs (machinery, tools, furniture & equipment)
Ball park another $35k

Used in the above: $775k/$1,425k

So even excluding the ENTIRE cost of putting ANY part of ANY pinball machine together, before even counting a single switch or wire, excluding ALL parties outside of John and his immediate employees, using the most conservative estimate I can possibly imagine, we still see well over half of the cash is already gone. Add the cost of third parties for development, plus the actual cost of materials to build the machines, lawyer fees, patent costs, scrapped gadget development. And these pins haven't even gone into production yet. You can assume another year or two of these annual costs before MG and RAZA are even out the door. So say by the time the last RAZA is shipped and all money collected is end of 2016 $1,145/$1,665 is spoken for just in wages/salaries and the annual cost of the building.

Assuming John makes $0 profit, that leaves $520k for the cost of producing 149 machines, or $3,500 per pin. That includes all of the extra costs I mentioned above. If you disagree with some of my calculations, at least you have to admit the picture doesn't look good.

So here we are with no option but to wait. He has our money. A lawsuit will just take time and money and the judgment will not be worth anything because the money is gone or he will just be forced into bankruptcy which will take even longer.

I have priced flights and looked into filing and suing him myself, but I didn't want to start a run on the bank and I really would like to see these games exist one day. The devil on my shoulder says lets start the bank run force the bankruptcy, if needed, and prevent him from wasting any more money on prototypes and salaries and rent and return it to us even at $.30 on the dollar.

No wonder he doesn't answer the phone, he has no answers. I hope we are all wrong and he is playing the long game. I think he believes that the reveal of awesome machines will settle us all down and save his hide in terms of anyone ever paying him a dime or investing with him in the future, but it seems less and less likely.

To save you hitting the address, the RAZA reveal blog still says Ride Soon!

Don't you actually have to reveal something, though? The only reveal that matters at this point is a finished, fully working game.

Good luck to you guys. I hope you get your game. Since I am not involved Ima bounce and watch from afar.

EXPO 2015: THE RECKONING!

Seriously - if Jpop or SkitB show their faces at this one...shit could get UGLY.

WOW! that speaks volumes. Isn't Chris also on the hook for preorders on RAZA on top of that? I don't want to be one of those peanut gang types, but man this ship is sinking fast. He isn't too busy to take calls, he's avoiding calls at this point.

I'd argue his studio is costing him more like $18k ($1500/month), plus maybe $200/month max in utilities, or another $2500/year. Not sure he's actually paying his artist, or if he's promised him a machine like he has to many of his "staff". Solidworks for him is $99 (student edition), PC can be a budget machine at $500 easily. Other equipment (like the multiple platforms, screens, etc), I can see this getting close to that number as a one shot deal.