I don't thing there are many folks here who want to see this crash and burn, a few but not many. I think most want to see this happen so those who invested get what they have paid for. Rubberneckers are not looking for something to crash and burn, however, when they see a train wreck, they will "stretch their necks" to get a look at it, and yes around here, they will continue to look and talk about it until it is no longer interesting, but that does not mean they want to see it crash and burn. I have little doubt that your attitude and confidence in your ability to make this a success, will keep folks interested in watching what happens from here.

I applaud your confidence that you can get the job done, and wanting to start with a clean slate, but, as the saying goes, "those that do not learn history are destined to repeat it". It may certainly be in your best interest to find out from those who had issues with john what happened, so you can hopefully find a way to be successful working with him.

<insert one of many many texas political failures to "get shit done" here>

Texas is the storm wall against the hurricane of common sense...

I'm a little confused by this. John has left a trail of people with good intentions, but they're all already out as far as I know. Meaning it's done, whether or not someone else steps in now or not.

It's not like FAST and Mission are trying to oust anyone, they're trying to take their turn step up when everyone else has fallen by the wayside (for whatever reason, maybe all John's fault, no judgement here). It's a vacuum, not occupied is what I'm saying.

I don't have the impression anyone is mad that Aaron and Brian might succeed, more that they're trying to warn them and keep everyone's expectations realistic.

Aaron is aware of the history, so IMHO if he's still willing to try why not let him? Only real risk is to him and wasting his time right? Because what's the alternative right now?

I guess my perspective is all you have to risk as owners is setting yourself for maybe more disappointment, but maybe real progress. At least this time the process is more transparent, and the owners are being included and asked to support, as opposed to being left in the dark and not even being aware of people trying to help and being screwed or pushed away etc.

Well, I will accept that most of this is "old news", it is just news to me, so I've given it more thought recently. I can accept anyone working with John going forward knows what they are getting themselves into. Same for any future buyers.

Yes, I agree pins being made = good.

Don't mind my hand wringing .

Do you mean using the legal process to take MG and RAZA away from him?

no matter where you go, someone who doesn't wear the same color tie as you will do something to piss you off. Don't think that's unique to the Lone Star State.

Steve Ritchie once stated in an interview that a Know-it-all newcomer had to have his first game taken away from him in order for it to be finished. WCS94 turned out great!

I don't think that's what Ice meant, but it might not be a bad thing!

I just want to add.... today is march 13. Less than 2 weeks ago we were waiting for the big "reveal". All these revelations of the boards being thrown away and replaced, FAST/Mission not being on board the past 5 months, programmer not working on anything because he wasn't paid and packed up and left, etc. this is all new shit that has come to light.

So, there's been a lot to take in and discuss, can't blame me for not turning the page when this is all so new.

No one wants to see this fail. People like Ice try to turn everything into a binary situation that you're either all for it or all against it. I believe everyone is all for it but most are realists who see the serious issues and question them. No harm in that no matter what anyone says.

Yeah, it's more "once bitten, twice shy".

That's how I read it. First he alludes to a "Team effort" then "get done one way or another". Sounds like the lawyer might be lawyering up if jpop doesn't deliver and deliver soon!

This is the weirdest part of the whole Jpop saga to me, all the things that I assumed all these years that the owners knew about. That you had all this access to secret blogs, and the leaked photos I saw were just the tip of the iceberg.

Then it turn out that no, most of those photos are all you got to see too, and often I knew more about the behind the scenes info than the people who were paying all the money. Pretty sad. This new era of openness is hopefully a turning point on all that.

I'm willing to bet John has no timeline, everything is linear with no schedule, which is a horrible way to run a project (and a business). And not because of your customers, it keeps yourself in check so time doesn't slip away. Any product design I work on at my job, not only do I have to come up with a complete schedule of every step in the process of design, but a complete test plan. I also have to do quarterly updates to our parent company on every project with 3 things highlighted "quality, cost, schedule". My last job, we would write entire specs up front, with cost estimates and if the BOM changed the final assembly cost by more than 5%, we had to have a meeting and discuss why it changed cost, and can we do anything to reduce it, and if not the sales team had to explain to the customer why their cost went up (which they didn't want to do because often that lead to sales getting cancelled).

And you forgot about the third option: buyers wanting their money back. Will you aid in this aswell? Or is your goal to make sure that there is no run on the banks? Because when you write "unanimous feeling across all the owners" you seem to ignore those who are trying to get their refund (just like John has done).

Some buyers have remorse because of the price, some just don't like the idea of playing a game that reminds them of this whole ordeal and just want out. Will you help this group get their refund?

You seem pretty adamant about getting these games out, no matter what, but what if the refunds create a run on the banks? Will you tell everyone here the truth? Because you seem to be pretty machiavellian right now.

You write of "brutal honesty" but only towards John in private. I hope that you will extend that style of honesty to those here who are thinking of buying or cancelling.

Sucks to hear but a buyer stepping in to help to save his game made , probably has only one focus. Honestly that is understandable .
Figuring out refunds should not be on his table. Does jpop owe you that , yes. Does Iceman no. But fair correction on unanimous .

best thing for refunds is to get the game playable and get new buyers lined up. So ice's plan will help.

So you're assuming that Zidware doesn't have enough money to refund those who want out now? New buyers are needed?

It's all a guess so don't freak out yet

Ice, Glad you are taking strong interest, but sorry, after all this with John, the last thing I would do is send in more money, just because YOU (or anyone else) may happen to "believe it's a GO", in the future. Still too many unknowns.

I see your thoughts are the only ones that matter.

Carry on.

Whew! I just went downstairs to see if my collection was still there. All good.

The only ones that really matter are the ones invested . This community bullshit is a fn joke!!
If you can take the time to chime take one more moment to update your info.

U would still need a cross over and a amp.. I was just curious if they had one or if fast already has a dedicated one.

Unless you also consider those of us who aren't on the buyers list, but are watching from the sidelines.
All together, we have a ton of cash for potential future projects.
What has already been done on these 2 pins looks incredible and I would be lying if I said I didn't want one.
At this point though, things are way too nuts to even think about sending in money.

True, but in other places, they're not the ones frequently in control. I don't want to turn this into a politics thread, but I am going to extinguish this asinine belief that everyone that lives in Texas thinks OMG THIS IS THE BESTEST PLACE EVAR.......

Door's open bud. Let me guess, you're here because of a job.

You didn't answer his question. Are you going to discuss refunds with jpop?

Thank you. Also see if there is still going to be a difference between the regular and cointaker versions on RAZA.
Last time I asked Chris he had no idea and if there is not going to be any difference, I don't think the CT people should have to pay $500 more.

Texas the land is beautiful beyond compare, Texas the country and state has a grand tradition and storied history, Texas the government is a hot mess and a national embarrassment.

Not sure I like this attitude either, as JPop has proclaimed he is in for the long haul and has designed 4 games, so getting MG out the door is relevant to far more than the 20 or so MG owners. I do agree MG should be the sole focus until it is out the door, and that will be the biggest challenge for volunteer project manager Iceman & company.

so you take precedence over the guys that paid those prices first because you may buy a game down the road ?

*edit* I'm not going to get sucked into this stupidity.

Why was Generica moderated and not anyone else?

You mean like your idiotic comment posted here:

Thanks for your contribution.

And yours is just as valuable.

Nice to be among gentlemen

I'm not the one who posted stupid political shit in a pinball thread. You did.

Wow, Chill folks. It's pinball.. a game, for fun !
All right now, shake hands.
Anyone ?

Thanks for the Canadian props Ice, we tend to be to nice a people to get into these squabbles as seen above

Still waiting to see evidence of RAZA progress.... 100+ more messages and the blog and new preview page looking pretty much the same.

Love all the positive vibes and new hope but... has there been anything tangible that can be shared with the buyers????

The only precedence I mentioned is MG production above all else. Where you came up with the rest of that is a mystery.

For The Record...

iliketurtles_large.jpg

If people with money on the line are supposed to be the only ones allowed to comment, why post this topic in a PUBLIC forum?

Not the only ones allowed to comment but certainly the ones that really matter . At least to them. Used to be a good place for those in and those intersted to share the journey but now a days a few folks like to come in threads they are not involved in and don't even have real interest in just to add negativity .
That makes no sense and has no relevance.