(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..

By iceman44

5 years ago

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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (3 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (3 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (3 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (3 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (3 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (3 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (3 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (3 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#147 5 years ago

Damages and legal fees are only a concern if you're an idiot and don't have discretion. I'm very happy with the NDA requirement and where RAZA stands, as well as the blog updates I've received thus far. That said.....I've got a major friggin' space problem and can barely fit one more pin without taking some radical measures. Plus, I'm in on TBL which is a dream theme and one that's looking more and more real each month. So, delaying delivery until late 2014 or early 2015 isn't a problem for me.

However, don't count on a big secondary market for Zidware's pins. JPOP seems to be going for low quantities that will ensure rarity in the future. I really like JPOP's business model and will most likely buy from him again in the future.

2 months later
#208 5 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

I don't think the concern is so much working on the game but having parts available for when things fail, and they do fail, in the future. Imagine the issues WOZ had on a small run like RAZA or Magic Girl, the cost to rerun all those boards one, two, three times? I don't see how Jpop is going to support his games like that.

I worry a little also. I'm in on RAZA and I'm pretty sure that JPoP has said several times in the RAZA blog that he's building a pinball company, not just knocking out a few titles. While that's comforting, of course the big unknown is his corporate structure if something happened to him.

#211 5 years ago

If RAZA's LED placement is any indication, this isn't MG.

#218 5 years ago

It's a struggle for most of us to be sure. I don't have room for the game yet, so that provides me a little extra patience. We're seeing pretty cool stuff on art, design, concept, etc., through his exclusive forum and that helps. I think we're probably another year out on MG and RAZA, but after Zidware's game system is set future games should emerge sooner. I'm also in on TBL. Both have me psyched, so it's a dead heat to see which one rocks the most. A lot of games are emerging over the next year, but none excite me as much as RAZA and TBL, so I can wait longer if necessary. However, I understand if others can't, given so many alternatives.

1 month later
#361 5 years ago

JPoP showed two cabinets today with different artwork options. The best, which I haven't seen a picture of posted here yet, is a cute blue alien chick. The theme appears to be a carnival/fair setting with aliens and crazy clowns turning people into zombies using ray guns. The ray guns also appear to animate and zombify items such as the large dinosaur, ducks, and such.

#367 5 years ago
Quoted from Jakenjoi:

Maybe an LCD screen?

Today he indicated that he was going to put an LCD down lower in the cabinet and have more room for stuff.

4 months later
#4334 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm an excellent judge of character and John is the farthest thing from a scammer, con artist, etc. That's MY judgement after speaking with him for that length of time.

Ice, I came away with the same thoughts after talking to JPoP at Expo (prior to the empty cabinets fiasco). BUT, if that's the case, he's got to show us owners something and fast. I really think I'm out $10K, as I'm fully paid on RAZA. Most of us owners are really, really tired and I've given him all the slack that I can give. We need something more than the visitor of the month saying things are okay without any real progress to show for it. I think we're also tired of the "I'm building a pinball company" statement. We bought a pinball machine, not a company, so if he has to outsource to Stern, used licensed Williams part or whoever, then that's what he's got to do. He may not be a con artist, but if not, he's a friggin' idiot!

#4494 5 years ago

I'm a RAZA owner, if it's ever made. I'd like to keep updates fully open if possible. One of the biggest complaints has been JPoP's secret squirrel blog. I understand that there are some Pinside posters who wreck havoc at every opportunity, but I think transparency rules the day in the long run.

#4588 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

but the whole aura of secrecy just fosters bad feelings.

I continue to agree with this. I'm a RAZA owner, or sucker perhaps. Despite all the hoopla, I still don't know of a production schedule and have yet to see any of the promised reveals. Call me from Missouri, but I'm still pessimistic about this, despite all of the recent chest thumping.

#4604 5 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

The 'BLOG' looks the same as it always did, I'm not seeing anything new that I wasn't seeing yesterday, what changed? Just that it's open to public viewing?

Exactly the problem, there's nothing new to report except him opening it up. I guess that's progress of some sort, but it's not helping us get our games.

#4783 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I pray that by expo visiting the shop is not the only way anyone will see these games. If it is, we're right where we started.

I totally agree. If given recent events, we don't have any positive reveals in the next 7 months before Expo, I don't think we ever will. It would be embarrassing for JPoP to even show his face at Expo, particularly if MMR, TH, and TBL are shipping by then. Talk about finishing in last place, but hey the art looks great!

In any case I'll be at Expo to see what we can do.

2 weeks later
#5797 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I've had one owner tell me that he is so fed up with the whole ordeal that he doesn't even want the pin anymore, that John took all the fun out of the project with his antics.

This sounds like me. I need a Tums each time I open this thread. If I could get a refund, I'd be out in a second.

#5937 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

If you're a Jpop customer and interested in joining the owners group please shoot me a private email. I'll need to verify your Zidware participation and then send you an invite. We have over 40 members now but it would seem not everyone is aware of our groups existence.

I'm in on RAZA (fully, unfortunately), but refuse to join Facebook under any circumstance. I appreciate what you guys are doing, but I don't really see any results yet. I fear that our money is lost and have heard nothing lately to encourage me. I fear that we've all been J'Pop'd.

1 month later
#8356 4 years ago
Quoted from Ronnie1114:

Let's just say, this game will blow anything else out of the water......

What the h--l, where did you come from? There is no game. A million dollars down the drain for nothing. I'm blown away by the sound of my $10K gone.

#8358 4 years ago
Quoted from Ronnie1114:

There is a game.

B/S, I'm an owner of the vaporware, so I've seen the video, it has paper ramps and some of the mechs don't work. The ball has to be captured and manually put back into play. B/S!!!! I could do better with a month of time, $1K, and some clip art of Godzilla, Robbie the Robot and Mars Attacks.

1 week later
#9569 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

If people want refunds.... well, refund them. That will be the cost of doing business.

From what I can gleam from this deal, the Licensee is getting no pre-order funds from Zidware (because they're gone), so I can't imagine this new player stepping forward and immediately throwing away $750K, or whatever the figure is to refund everyone. To make this work it seems like he's going to need to keep the existing customers (captive as they are) and make the most expensive game. Otherwise, whatever business plan the Licensee has in mind can't work. Then all pre-orders are lost and we are all burned as was stated in a previous post.

Like Ice has said, there are two other options. Sue and get nothing or maybe a few pennies on the dollar (which I doubt), or walk away. On this new lifeline option, none of the pre-order folks will send in another penny until much more is revealed to them. The Licensee has his hands full and a lot of fence mending to do before that could possibly happen. Whoever it is, he's got big brass ones, just to touch this IMHO.

#9595 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

If the new buyer

This is what I think some folks are misunderstanding. From what I can gather, it's not a new buyer of Zidware. It's someone getting licensed to make the games but receiving none of the pre-order funds. So, whoever it is will provide all or half pre-order payment credits in order to keep the customers and roll them into MG.

Or, they can wait and buy the designs on the cheap after Zidware's inevitable bankruptcy and start over fresh while all pre-order money is lost.

#10166 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

It seems unbelievable that the 'project' could continue, with no/few vendors being paid, and no pre-orderers refunded even a penny. There are open clauses in the new agreement regarding future costs. It's wide open legally- no protection for the consumer, and of course a 'get out of jail free' clause for Jpop. No sensible person wold sign up to this new agreement, and certainly not after 4 years and the lost money and all the shenanigans.
I emailed Jpop with a final request for refund before legal action. On the high likelihood he doesn't reply, I will be going to court over this, hopefully as part of a class action. I know that other people have contacted/will contact the attorney too.
So here's the reality of the situation- Jpop/Zidware is going to get sued. How does that affect this proposed new arrangement? Obviously, it kills it. So why are we pretending otherwise? Zidware is toast. It's over. MG/RAZA/AIW customers need to accept this reality NOW, and not perpetuate this nightmare any further.
I accept that I'll probably not get my money back, but there is a point of principle here. And if Jpop has committed fraud, it's out of our hands anyway, because that will be investigated regardless of civil suits.
So people, please, wake up and smell the coffee!

My take as a fellow RAZA vaporware owner, or possibly loser. This is the one chance to "possibly" make everyone whole again, including all three game owners, and "possibly" unpaid vendors. We won't know how strong the "possibly" is until we hear more details, see the completed prototype in action to figure out if it really is the bomb, and learn who will manufacture the game, etc. However, it sure sounds like Pintasia is charging out of the gate in the right direction. Yes, if JPoP goes bankrupt at this point, it might kill the whole thing by having the designs auctioned off to someone who will have no obligation to honor everyone else's previous investments, hence the clause we all hate. I believe the Licensee folks (fellow Pinsiders as we've just found out), who are also suffering vaporware game owners/vendors, would probably have no desire to save JPoP, but that might be necessary in order to salvage this. The question of the moment for those of us with money at stake is, does our desire for revenge on JPoP rank higher than "possibly" salvaging our investments? JPoP's reputation is already ruined, so there's that at least for the outraged mob carrying torches and pitchforks. Yes, bankruptcy would hurt his ego, but does anyone really believe that he would go to jail, or that he hasn't protected his personal property? So, he wouldn't be hurt much more than the hundreds of us who would lose our money for sure. And yes, the losses would severely hurt some of the pre-order folks and vendors (fellow Pinsiders, by the way), who have many more times than $6,500 or so invested. Yes, the current situation stinks, but we'll have to hold our noses with any deal at this point. So, we who have money riding on this deal have to analyze the situation, do some due diligence on the Licensee, learn more details, and decide whether to go forward or burn the place down. Meanwhile, the Pinside coliseum is full of screaming people motioning thumbs down.

#10177 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

It's either worth doing that or it isn't.

Based upon what I read in some recent posts, they're checking on the cost of manufacturing the games and are calling people to see who's willing to stay in. After that it's pure economics and like you said, either worth doing or it isn't. One thing's for sure, they've got big brass ones to take this on given the huge pre-order deposit deficit and strong emotions on all sides.

#10248 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

My point being is that Jon has zero options and hence no negotiating power. If he thinks it is as simple as declaring bancruptcy and this all goes away then he really does not understand the reality of what happens when you lie and steal large sums of money from hundreds of people.

Actually, in our system it is that easy, unfortunately. Other than a hit to his reputation and possibly ego, nothing will happen to him. We already know his excuse, he's just bad a business. We can sue all day long and lose more money. In the end, everyone might get a few pennies on the dollar, though probably not enough to cover legal fees. That's the really sad point in all this, especially to the people who have large sums tied up.

#10300 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I don't think you and I operate in the same system...

Sure we do, but maybe with different perspectives. We operate in a system where a bunch of white collar idiots/criminals almost took down our entire economy 7-8 years ago packaging and selling fraudulent mortgage packages. Are any of those guys in jail? I hope you're right and justice will prevail in this case, but too often it doesn't. It's been some time now, but I've been at the receiving end of a bankruptcy previously as an unsecured creditor and crawled away without a dime.

#11015 4 years ago
Quoted from shakethatmachine:

Oh, Ice has seen the books? He's seen an actual plan for manufacturing written down? I didn't know that. Please Pintasia, share this information will all of us. Talk is cheap, real cheap. As a matter of fact, it's free; not worth $1,000,000.
So far past unpaid Zidware vendors have been left holding the bag, along with us RAZA owners. Zidware is still 100% on the hook for this. Pintasia is not picking up any of the bad debt, but they are benefiting from all the work Zidware has done so far on MG using RAZA money. A couple shiny ramps get shown and suddenly everyone forgets about this?

See posts 10956 and 10981 on the previous page, they offer a little more information and suggest that more is coming soon.

#11025 4 years ago
Quoted from shakethatmachine:

taz said:See posts 10956 and 10981 on the previous page, they offer a little more information and suggest that more is coming soon.
These suggestions are not in the contract.

They suggest that more is coming soon. They haven't even had time to figure out what it'll cost to make the games yet, get an estimate for assembly, or determine if it'll be feasible. So, no rush to sign anything right now. In retrospect, they probably should have sent out an introduction letter and surveyed everyone's intentions by phone rather than try to do it with a hasty contract. The next 2-3 weeks should be interesting.

#11039 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

frolic said:But what difference does it make to me to wait 2 weeks? Nothing.

In short...
It means 2 weeks more time for assets to disappear from Zidware.
It means 2 weeks more time for Jpop to get the head start on getting books in order to make sure all money disappears (keep in mind he now has help from business savvy people).
It means less chance for you to mitigate personal loss.
On the other hand, if this is alreayd a write off for you then it likely means lieelt edifference to you.
I personally would want to make things as difficult for Jpop as possible as he has lied and stolen from all of you.

Unfortunately, he's had plenty of time to do those things already. If a Pinsider had to pay for the ramp molds, the money's gone, whether spent, wasted, or worse. So, IMHO there is no mitigating our personal losses, more than a few pennies on the dollar. There's really no front of the line for us pre-order folks if it comes to bankruptcy, regardless of order status or legal action timing. That's why so many of us have like you said, already written it off. In the end we each only have our names and reputations or the humility of losing them. He's lost his already, so that's a burden he'll have to carry for the rest of his life. I'm going to wait and watch through June before making a decision. This whole thing is a great spectacle if nothing else. Like Rommy wrote few thousand posts ago, no one outside of Pinside would ever believe this story.

#11048 4 years ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

Hmm... yeah,
Stern and JJP would just love to make a Zidware game even if the numbers were right?

I would have said the same thing prior to MMR coming off of the Stern line. I've also heard that Gary Stern likes to say that they're a pinball manufacturing company. So, who knows?

#11052 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

While I applaud Bill and all the guys involved, I also see this delema. RAZA owners paid the lions share of money to John (I'm assuming $800K) and they are getting the short straw. GIVEN the short straw, there was no discussion or vote so the majority investors are paying to save the minority investors.
Not saying MG buyers deserve to get stiffed, but someone is getting stiffed in this plan and it's not MG buyers who wanted a MG priced at $16k and that's the only plan on the table.

There will be a few of us who would convert. I was in on RAZA but didn't like the last few changes to the theme (clowns, Mars Attacks, & Godzilla???) and now that I have TWD at home to scratch my zombie itch, I'd prefer the MG theme if the game play is good. Like everyone else, I'm not thrilled with the current price to more units ratio, but I'm a possible candidate to switch.....if the stars align and this can be pulled out of the fire. There are likely others once more information comes to light.

#11058 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Am i the only one in on AIW?
All is RAZA and MG talk

I think a lot of the people in on AIW were also in on the other games and much further in financially which are why they're discussed more. IMHO, the AIW theme would probably sell more units than the other two combined. I wasn't in on it, so I've seen nothing about how it was envisioned, but it's got a lot of potential.

#11081 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

I'm having trouble understanding why 19 trumps the 199, whatever the exact amount is. Even if every MG owner is paid in full and even if every RAZA owner is only paid in up to $4,000, the RAZA owners have funded double what MG has. I'm really scratching my head on why mg over RAZA. If this is being done for the good of pinball, why not serve the greatest number affected? I have to guess that there is close to half to a third of the money left to be collected on RAZA. Why not get RAZA running with a production plan. I'm sure those outstanding balances will be gladly sent in. Something just doesn't make sense as to why RAZA is being converted to mg and not the other way around.

I have a few guesses for what they're worth, now that I've seen a good bit of both games. MG is much closer to completion and Bill knows that he's only got days or weeks to save this thing, if it's even possible. It's art isn't straight from Mars Attacks and Godzilla like RAZA which will require extra time and work to avoid copyright problems. The RAZA theme kind of went off the rails a little bit compared to what some of us thought it was going to be. I, for one, like MG much better now that I've seen both, though RAZA could still be a decent game. There might also be more code in MG than RAZA right now, who knows. I suspect that if they can successfully pull off MG, RAZA would follow, though I imagine it would look different in the end, even if it kept the same game mechs. FWIW.

Dang, Frolic beat me to it.

#11086 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

I swear I just read somewhere that RAZA is near prototype ready. If I'm wrong, my apologies. Either way, I'm still skeptical of RAZA to mg versus mg to RAZA.

It's not from what I've seen on the RAZA owner's site. I don't recall seeing a working mech of any kind yet, or the full ramps even in paper. I could be wrong given this roller coaster and the long passage of time between updates. There's a lot of stuff there, and some potentially cool mechs, but I think it will require some time to polish it up.

#11091 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

Fair enough. I must be mistaken.

Actually, maybe not. That was probably more of John's B/S and floated out to everyone here in past posts about how close it was to completion. Probably someone who came back from his shop under the influence of whatever hex that people leave there with.

#11110 4 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

This is how the prototype looked in my office before stopping work:

Did it have plastic ramps then? I thought they just made them.

#11115 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Hand made out of cut plastic and glue on that prototype - not molded.

Roger that. Even they look a lot better than the paper ones.

1 week later
#13592 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

If you don't think this is crazy, then you wouldn't recognize crazy, if Charles Manson was eating fruitloops on your front porch!

Now that's funny and on target, I don't care what anyone else says.

#15013 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

You weren't paying for a product. You were investing in a startup, with the hope of receiving a product out of it. Startups fail all the time. People lose money. No one goes to jail.
Seriously, this notion that John is going to jail, or even will be convicted of any kind of fraud, is just not happening. The lawsuit may or may not recover any money, and it will most certainly cause bankruptcy, but that's going to be the extent of it in all likelihood.

Sad, but true.

1 month later
#16607 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I am very skeptical of Pintasia and $100K invested, that seems like complete BS to me, how is that even possible and why would someone drop $100K on Jpop.

Why are you suddenly bashing Bill? Try forming a company and developing legal agreements to protect yourself from a radioactive company in a licensing agreement, it'll get expensive in a hurry. Contracts to get your team in place, expedited cost analysis on BOM, fees to accelerate getting parts made, a few airline tickets to Chicago/elsewhere, pinball show space, due diligence on Zidware, it would add up quickly.

1 year later
#21004 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

He's barely been able to limp across the finish line with 19 magic girls, which was FUNDED by RAZA (and AIW) money. How in the world is ANOTHER 125 machines going to get built with no cash influx, not to mention that the other games were never as completed as MG.
ZY has already chimed in that he's been screwed in all this, so he won't be finishing work on the other games. So there's that as well.
This whole MG delivery thing is just as bird brained as everything up to this point and really doesn't change much of anything, other than 19 people get something, which is 19 more people than a few months ago.

Yep! These few games are probably his desperate attempt to derail or delay the legal action against him.

#21165 3 years ago

A bunch of JPoP game buyers started a big lawsuit about a year ago, maybe even longer. If they haven't chased him into bankruptcy by now, I doubt a new group can in 90 days.

#21243 3 years ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

I have 9,000 in check receipts to JPop for a RAZA machine that helps to support this side of the equation. And what do I have for 9,000 dollars?? A t-shirt and letters from JPop requesting money.

At least you got the t-shirt. I think I paid $9,995 or something along those lines and I didn't even get the lousy t-shirt.

2 years later
#24300 3 months ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

How so we’re they different?

It's been a heck of a ride for those of us who pre-ordered. I first committed to a RAZA pin in May 2012, so I spent 7 long years riding that RAZA theme park roller coaster.

- There was initial excitement in possibilities (remember this pre-dated TWD, so there was no zombie theme alternative at the time), then
- Frustration due to no progress on RAZA and the release of TWD which was a zombie themed pin which really existed, then
- Shock at Expo 2014 when JPoP brought an empty cabinet to show progress at a seminar I attended, then
- Anger at the financial standing of Zidware, with none of the games even close to being produced, then
- Hope thanks to a few lifelines that came and went before fading away, then
- Depression due to my obvious $10K financial loss, then
- Anger every time I walked past my ToTAN pinball machine which I wouldn't even play anymore, then
- Shame all throughout the timeline for being stupid enough to pre-pay and defend JPoP previously, then
- Vengeance in a call to arms by a group of buyers on a private site to discuss legal action, which some eventually brought, and then
- Bewildered when JPoP was hired by other companies, despite the devastation he brought to the pinball community, then
- Hope yet again thanks to most recent lifeline that worked from deeproot

Fortunately, I was able to get a full refund from deeproot, so it all ended well for me, thanks to deeproot, but boy was it a many year drama and there are probably others out there still riding the roller coaster.

#24304 3 months ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:

You got your full $10k refunded to you by Deeproot?

Yes indeed, the exact number was $9,995. I'm not the only one either. Because of that I'm really rooting for deeproot to succeed.

#24312 3 months ago
Quoted from ZNET:

Congratulations on your long-awaited refund. While Deeproot deserves your gratitude, your overview omits the fact that Deeproot's motivation to pay your refund was not the product of pure altruism.
Rather, your refund was a business decision fueled by an effort to avert more litigation. Absent the lawsuit against Zidware/Jpop, Deeproot's impetus to issue any refund would have been virtually nonexistent.
To that end, the members of the lawsuit, who have dedicated their time and funds, are the silent partners in your refund outcome. They did not seek "vengeance" at any time. Rather, they sought "vindication" for themselves. You and several others just happened to be a beneficiary of their efforts.

I disagree. I didn't omit a damn thing. Zidware left a wide swath of damage, to buyers, subcontractors, and maybe even others, more than I suspect deeproot was able to take care of. As for lawsuits, I don't owe anyone anything. I lost out on two pre-payed pins around the same time and had to make a hard decision. I chose to enter a lawsuit against a distributor of a different company because there were a smaller number of plaintiffs in that one, figuring that there were more than enough Zidware plantiffs to attack that one. We won the other case but received nothing, so I threw good money after bad, much like I fear happened in the Zidware case. deeproot didn't owe me anything, so I'm thankful to receive something.

#24314 3 months ago


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