(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..

By iceman44

5 years ago

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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (2 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (2 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (2 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (2 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (2 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (2 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#55 5 years ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

For the record - The photos that Rob T posted were also posted by John on Facebook, so I don't think there was any foul there really.
I think the NDA (although I could be TOTALLY wrong) is more for playfield layout, design, toys, etc.
I think if John posts them himself, they are already cleared for release.

Just to clarify, the NDA covers only stuff from private conversations and the private blog, workshop visits, etc. Anything already revealed to the public by JPOP (through public postings on FB or the like, displaying at a public event, etc.) isn't covered by the NDA and can be freely reposted (but not copied!). I'm pretty sure the NDA has language to that effect; it's pretty standard. (You can't get in trouble for 'revealing' something that is already public knowledge!)

#148 5 years ago
Quoted from taz:

Damages and legal fees are only a concern if you're an idiot and don't have discretion. I'm very happy with the NDA requirement and where RAZA stands, as well as the blog updates I've received thus far. That said.....I've got a major friggin' space problem and can barely fit one more pin without taking some radical measures. Plus, I'm in on TBL which is a dream theme and one that's looking more and more real each month. So, delaying delivery until late 2014 or early 2015 isn't a problem for me.
However, don't count on a big secondary market for Zidware's pins. JPOP seems to be going for low quantities that will ensure rarity in the future. I really like JPOP's business model and will most likely buy from him again in the future.

This is the central concept. JPOP is keeping his customers informed to the degree he can. And most of them are very happy, and patient. Those that are not can ask for refunds and will get them.

You think the Kiss artwork was cool? MG and RAZA are even better IMO! As for software, I don't know any details but it will be done with some attention. The basic system seems to be in place for all of his games (and it's not P-ROC). And wait until you hear some of the music and sound. Wow. That's all I have.

1 month later
#162 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Whitewoods? Or with actual playfield art?

The playfield art piece is trivial. OK, maybe one step more involved than the cab art (simple decal printing) but what difference does it make if there's art on a playfield prototype? Believe it or not, the *important* part of a prototype is the physical/mechanical/electrical assemblies, not the superficial artwork. That can (and generally does) get finalized and applied last of all.

1 month later
#248 5 years ago

I know this is a big waiting game, but I also know that John is a perfectionist and keeps tweaking things that the average person would think is already awesome. On the bright side, I also think (not sure) that the code should be upgradeable easily, so refinements can be made after shipping.) Otherwise, it might *never* ship! )

3 months later
#2343 5 years ago

Hate to pipe in with vague info, but from what I know (and I'm not speaking in any official capacity), JPOP is currently taking steps to address many of the issues raised in this thread. Can't expect comments right away while things are being arranged. But I can say that the stuff he's doing, as suggested in the video, is pretty darned cool and new. He isn't just slapping a popular theme onto a generic layout with standard playfield features. (And nobody has mentioned the music/audio, but the early stuff I heard was amazing.)

#2346 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

I don't think a flipper flips or a ball is seen rolling on any of the games in the video. John's fear of being copied must have disappeared once Adobe said they wanted to make a slick video in his shop.
Why wouldn't he announce this on the private blog? How can John claim the ability to enforce an NDA when he violates it when it suits him?

Things are flipping, whether you've seen them or not. As for your NDA comment, that was pretty silly. He's free to reveal his own info whenever he wants to. Maybe he just feels its more ready to be shown now?

#2368 5 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

It looks good at first glance but then you realize that none of the ramps are finished, etc.

That paper stuff is very early models. John doesn't seem to throw anything away. There are ramps, and flipping playfields, I do believe.

#2374 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

yeah, we're clinging to that hope he can get it done.
Although my 30 minute buzz from that video has ended and I'm back to the hard questions of getting the game completed, produced and whether the software and rules will be up to 2015 standards in pinball.

Software is the least concern, imo. It is a simple matter to update software these days, once a platform is in place. Which means, unlike 'fixed' aspects (artwork, toys, mechanisms), user input can be implemented at any time after release to tweak things.

#2383 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

And as RD pointed out, Jpop doesn't even get solo credit on the games his name is attached to. He was like the junior designer at Williams wasn't he?

Laughable statement. Are you being serious here?

#2385 5 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Software is the least concern, imo. It is a simple matter to update software these days, once a platform is in place. Which means, unlike 'fixed' aspects (artwork, toys, mechanisms), user input can be implemented at any time after release to tweak things.

Quoted from Aurich:

Yeah, and that's working so well for Stern. I'd be cautious about thinking software can just be fixed later. If the games ship badly unfinished does anyone feel confident "old" games will get more attention over new shiny things?

Let's see... Spiderman. Lord of the Rings. World Poker Tour. AC/DC. Metallica. Yeah, I'd say it is working petty well for Stern, even if not the optimal approach. And you can add WOZ for JJP.

#2386 5 years ago

Gonna "pop" out of this thread now, before I start correcting some misstatements and perhaps posting things I shouldn't be posting.

3 weeks later
#3263 5 years ago

This thread is pretty brutal. All I can say (after skimming some posts, NOT reading thru everything!) is to hold onto your hats for a very short while. Yes, John and his colleagues have been doing a LOT behind the scenes. Yes, he does spend most of his waking hours laboring at this pinball stuff, and progressing on everything from parts designs and orders to artwork to designing cool layouts and toys, to, well, making great pinball.

And, I have it on good word that a lot of this will be made public soon, and it will be awesome. JPOP is realizing there's no strong reason to keep things under tight wraps at this stage, and the negativity here is discouraging. So, hold onto your hats a bit longer--you may be happy you did. Games are closer to being done than many folks think. And, they'll be done right. (OK, there's always a possibility that software updates may carry on for a bit, but... )

#3266 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

I keep thinking that this is right and I hope it will be. The problem for me is that this sticking the head in the sand reaction when there is trouble gives me no confidence in JPOP supporting the machines in the future.

He's shifting his approach, it seems, and the foundation for making more titles is in place. My sense is he takes the criticism very personally. As he does the quality of his game designs. This is the huge learning curve that is a challenge for any new pinball maker. His 'trouble' is not much different than what we've seen from JJP and others. I think you all will see these games pretty soon, and they will be made.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not speaking officially for JPOP or anyone else but myself here, based on some general info I do have.

#3278 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

So why aren't we, the owners, privy to this same information that you have StevenP? It seems like a reasonable request on our part.

I've been discussing the situation with him recently, and suggesting to him that it is time to open the doors, so to speak. Yep, it's a reasonable request. This whole boutique pinball development thing is new for him, and my best guess is he wants to keep everyone happy and maybe had some vaporlock as things progressed, took longer than expected, and criticism started piling up.

Quoted from Concretehardt:

Appreciate your thoughts Steven! This thread could certainly use some positive input.

That's the only reason I posted here, for the moment--you will see a lot of the things you've been waiting for very soon.

Quoted from jazzmaster:

This makes me even more leery of his ability to focus on the task (or three) that he needs to desperately complete.

John could have avoided nearly all of the criticism that he is now facing by simply communicating with his owners.

If his "trouble" is anything akin to what JJP has faced then there is surely more to come. JJP faced most of there challenges and criticism during the production phase, which John seems nowhere near.

Big deal! When are we going to see John face his owners and tell the plain and simple truth about what he has done with their money and when and if we can expect to have the games we have paid for? Because seeing a prototype is near the top of the list of things that need to happen to accomplish shipping a completed game.

Agree that much of this could have been avoided, and it seems simple, but we all have our strengths and weaknesses. John seems to take his development work seriously and personally, and maybe got overwhelmed by all the extra customer issues? I know for a fact he is NOT trying to rip anyone off and still on track to complete and ship games. He's much closer to production than people here seem to think. I thought his policy was to let people visit or call him directly with questions--not sure when/if/why that fell apart. But he is regrouping to get on top of communications etc., although he's also working full-time to get these 2 titles finalized and out the door.

I'm gonna let John's work speak for itself now. I would ask folks to give the guy a break, at least for a few weeks or so until he gets to show his stuff--he does take criticism and complaints very personally, and he has been putting more time focused on all aspects of these games than you might imagine. 12 hours in the workshop is a short day for him. If you've hung in this long (and yes, it's longer than initially stated and expected!), a couple more weeks won't make or break anything, right? He's not going to disappear, and you will be seeing a new level in pinball machines.

Imagine if JPOP had complete control of the design of a pinball machine from the feet up, with no short schedule or restrictive budget. Well, you won't have to imagine for much longer.

1 month later
#4451 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

It sounds to me like he did his poor john shpiel and iceman is so desperate to believe that he is doing johns dirty work for him now. What I heard from all this is that john needs you all to give him your final payments or the project is sunk. If I were involved there is absolutely nothing that could get me to send the final payment without seeing games shipping out the door.

This is entirely BS and borderline slander. Watch it dude. Seriously. I speak from knowledge; you babble from ignorance.

#4453 4 years ago
Quoted from s1500:

Imagine all the work saved if Jpop would just post on this thread. No hour-long phone calls, relaying emails, confirming this and that between people, playing "telephone". Making pinball machines is hard, but an update to an Internet message board is harder

With all the bitching and moaning and accusations here, would YOU want to post here if you were JPOP? Heck, I barely want to enter this thread but then I see stuff like the b*llsh*t I quoted above and had to respond to.

Short story: Games are coming along nicely, like 80% and 90% at this point, will be like no other game you've seen, great details and innovation everywhere, all done with quality talent and assistance on a frugal budget (no, there is NO cash crunch--I believe Ice will confirm soon), and anyone who sees the current status would be very happy indeed. How do I know this? I just spent 2 full days in JPOP's workshop. And I think Kim will be able to confirm in a day or so, after his visit.

The only thing John is guilty of is being overwhelmed a bit with all the crap while he's trying to make great games. Yeah, he should show more and many of us are trying to convince him to do so. But then again, there are still a few reasons why he isn't.

#4454 4 years ago
Quoted from shakethatmachine:

Conjecture and slander are two different things.

Yeah, I know. I did the law school thing. It's a fine line that can be crossed easily. And adding a few wishy-washy words is not necessarily a valid defense.

#4455 4 years ago

I'm leaving this sewer now. Those with a horse in this race know where to get good info from.

#4503 4 years ago

[incomplete post]

#4504 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

a) If you had any knowledge whatsoever you would know that you can't silence someone on an internet message board with "slander" accusations. Your semester at law school before realizing you couldn't hack it doesn't intimidate anyone, so you can probably stop trying to use it as an appeal to authority 30 years later.
b) Yes, if I were JPop I would want to post here - it's called client management and public relations.
c) Freedom of speech is a valid defense. We are all glad to hear your professional advice is to throw money at a frivolous lawsuit against somebody who offended you on the internet. I can see why you are so successful.

Not gonna argue with this and let it speak for itself. Fact: I have been a practicing lawyer for a long time now, admitted to 2 state bars, 2 federal courts, and an admin body. Curious to hear what YOUR legal credentials are--or are you just another "forum legal expert"? [For the sake of argument, we'll stipulate that Canadian law counts here as well.]

And FWIW, I do agree that transparency is important, and would only help things because there are 2 games close to being finished that look incredible, and go beyond any pin made to date. Can't even think of a title that would be similar. It's not vaporware and there is no cash crunch--far from it. John is frugal to a fault. No idle full-time employees, and he does seem to be calling in favors to get the best talent with the least expenditure, so that more can go into the games themselves.

Gonna continue working on getting him to divulge more. Honestly, I would recommend that current owners not cancel--yes, there's a wait list for both games so it won't materially affect John's situation, but I honestly think you'd be kicking yourself for a long, long time if you did cancel.

#4505 4 years ago

[duplicate post!]

#4569 4 years ago
Quoted from Euchrid:

Got it, that makes sense then. He wouldn't be representing JPOP or the corp anyway in the event of such.

Correct. I'm only representing John in IP matters (and no, he has never spent or 'wasted' a lot of time or money dealing with patents). But I do want to see these games get finished and be great, so I have been trying to help that process along. John is seeing how important that is--opening up the MG and RAZA blogs is a HUGE step for him. And new info should be coming soon.

Maybe I'm sticking my neck out a bit, but I am just trying to get things moving in a positive direction, and countering much misinformation that is presented here. As for refunds, there IS a waitlist and for the most recent request he received, he processed it in a reasonable time, sending paperwork, then sending papers to the waitlister so he could get the new deposit and refund the original buyer. And then the buyer decided he didn't want to cancel. (Someone here could verify this, but it's ok if you don't! )

I can't make up anybody's mind for them, but I would at least suggest waiting a short while to see where things are and how cool they are. John seems to be shifting gears and is back to addressing the various complaints. And the games will be THAT good imo. Just my perspective, having seen the workshop very recently and having asked lots of questions. I know visiting JPOP is not feasible for all customers--would be a lot simpler if it were!

#4571 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

He should have done this long ago. The thought to pops to mind is, polished and professional. The LCD animations look great, the sfx sounds professional and not just neighbors lending their voice but real voice talent. I so wish I could believe these will be built in a timely manner. I would for sure want to be in on his games if I knew he could get them to market. I'm still skeptical but a huge thumbs up to what JPop has created thus far.

totally agree on all of this. Completion and manufacturing are being dealt with, as primary tasks. And yeah, he has gotten top-notch professional help with animation, music, voices, etc. (Some familiar names--not sure if they're public so I won't mention them.) And all at really low cost--he's NOT wasting money everywhere, but is also focused on quality and innovation. it's incredible ow much he's done while keeping a frugal budget. (Of course, he's not paying himself for his own countless hours.) Many good, quality people willing to end a bit to help his startup efforts. And he does get that there's a need to push for completing these games. The next few months should be interesting indeed...

#4572 4 years ago
Quoted from joelreeves:

Magna - save on Magic Girl. Very cool!
looking forward to drooling over one someday...

MagnaSave? Heck, not sure what's on the blog (haven't gone through it) but he has magnets OVER the inlanes to grab and lock balls! And that is nowhere near the craziest stuff in these games.

#4574 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

I'd really like to know how you know these details. Have you verified that he hasn't paid himself for several years?

Yes. He is just showing up at the workshop, doing what needs to be done. His wife has a good job, so they are not destitute. I also know he has a good accountant and everything is being done by the book.

#4576 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Apparently he's John's IP attorney.

Yep, that is my only official capacity. (OK, I helped with the lease for his workshop property too.) But we've become friends over the past few years and have discussed many issues and possibilities. So, I've become some sort of 'advisor' although he's not required to take any 'advice' I offer! I'm trying to be transparent here--and I honestly believe most of the red flags raised here are inaccurate and non-issues. There is room for improvement and a need to communicate and get things finished. And significant steps are being taken for that, to put the icing on the incredible games that are being designed. Opening up the blogs is just a start, but definitely in the right direction.

#4578 4 years ago
Quoted from notaflyingtoy:

IF we consider today's public reveals a starting point, and there is actual PROGRESS shown over the course of the next few weeks / months, I can see there being an active Zidware wait list.
John Popadiuk +1

The RAZA stuff is crazy too. Not sure what's on the blog, but I saw full pf with mix of actual parts and a few mockups, and couldn't figure out what some of the stuff was for. (I was happy to stay in suspense and not demand explanations.) This is not your father's (or even YOUR current) pinball!

#4592 4 years ago
Quoted from taz:

I continue to agree with this. I'm a RAZA owner, or sucker perhaps. Despite all the hoopla, I still don't know of a production schedule and have yet to see any of the promised reveals. Call me from Missouri, but I'm still pessimistic about this, despite all of the recent chest thumping.

My sense is that more info will be coming. At least it's in the right direction? I saw a RAZA playfield this week--tons of cool stuff, about 3x as much as on a typical modern game. And John gets that providing info is important--he's working on it. Can't comment on other things in the works. But IMO it's worth hanging in for RAZA. it'll be a next-level pinball game imo.

#4707 4 years ago

I have to laugh at people who say JPOP isn't getting anything done. Anybody who has visited him in the past few months is probably chuckling too. And yes, the focus right now is on nothing else but getting these 2 titles finished and shipped...

2 weeks later
#5331 4 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

At this point, would it even help his reputation if he showed everyone a working prototype? Normally I would think so, but maybe too much time has passed for that to happen.

[posted simialr info in the Skit-B thread in response to somebody saying the 2 situations were similar, which I disagree with.]

Regarding a"working prototype," I've seen both games in person recently. John probably could have put together a basic flipping whitewood a couple of years ago, if he put in the basic hardware and software first with some general pin components. But anyone can do that, and John knows that (and has done it before). His approach (as a designer, I guess) is to design a full game first, and then "bring it to life" with known hardware and programming pieces. Which is why MG already looks like a production game and RAZA looks like one with just a few pieces to be finalized and bolted down. Kinda like sewing a Frankenstein body together first, and the last step being zapping it with a lightning bolt.

I agree completely that more info directly from John would be great and appropriate, if not important/critical right now. I do know John has 1 or 2 real options for manufacturing in place. There are a bunch of these types of companies around Chicago still. Saw pics of the space for one of them. But it may be a confidentiality issue (or still considering other options) preventing more details being made public yet--I didn't ask.

I understand why many of his customers are feeling anxious, based on the lack of communication and delays. But I also feel, based on what I've seen and discussed, that the concerns are largely unwarranted. (Speaking only for myself here!) And i totally agree, more info has to come from John himself. We talk periodically, and my #1 mission right now is to be in touch more frequently and implore him to get more info out publicly. Wish me lick!

#5334 4 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

Wait a minute...

So who is telling the truth here?

Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

It's definitely not Zidware or anyone who gets paid by Zidware.

If you're implying I'm getting paid by Zidware, you are 100% wrong. I just want to clarify this. I volunteered to help John a few years ago with some patent stuff, and have done so along with some other legal assistance (e.g. a trademark filing or 2, the lease for his workshop). And I'm doing this pro bono. Not charging John a penny for my services. Why? because i love pinball, love his earlier games, want to see these new games get made, and I think it's cool to be a part of a new pinball venture. (Truth be told, I offered to help JJP early on too, but Jack already had an IP lawyer.) And I have regular big clients for my day job that pay the bills, so I can indulge in this fun aspect of my profession.

As for the apparently discrepancy in the above statements, they aren't quite so incongruous. What I meant by the lack of a cash crunch is that based on the pre-orders and amount remaining due from both titles, there is enough money (based on what I was told, with no evidence to the contrary) to complete and build the games. And that there are waiting lists. Obviously making more MGs would add a cushion.

As with any startup/new company that needs parts inventories for product, if a ton of people demand refunds, then yeah, there wouldn't be enough to finish the games and ship them. Because there are startup and development costs. They have to be amortized over the total run of games. Once the startup/development costs are covered by X number of games, then selling more games is where the profits start, which represent basically the difference between the selling price and the parts/mfg costs. And with the small runs of both MG and RAZA that were announced, there doesn't seem to be a huge cushion. If the full runs remain paid for, then I think all should work out based on what I've been generally told. (Iceman could probably speak to this better at some point!) If each run is cut in half, then yeah, there probably would not be enough left over beyond parts/mfg expenses to cover development costs.

But from everything I've seen and heard over the past few years, I don't see any deceit going on here at all. Just a great designer with his own quirks who tends to focus on finalizing the layout/artwork/toys/design first, with audio and video clips, and saving the 'standard' hardware control and programming for the end. Clearly he has never focused on getting a basic whitewood flipping, and instead has been testing new toys/components individually with mock-ups/prototypes. The parts he has designed, printed, and purchased to date are basically production quality. And I do agree, it would really change things if he got the MG prototypes wired in and flipping sooner rather than later. (the cabling layout i in place, btw.)

#5335 4 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

Easy there big guy!!
On a serious note, if he just shows a working game, I think most of this noise goes away.

Agree 100%. Not only that, but the excitement would probably kick in, as it should. I think he is actually understanding this now and focusing on it. I will not hesitate to remind him of this too!!!

And spellcheck did not help me here, unfortunately.

#5344 4 years ago
Quoted from HunchbackHodler:

You're not getting paid? Not even a free machine?
And you just admitted that your knowledge of Zidware's cash reserve is based on what he "told" you. That sounds like Skit-B fanboy ignorance. John has been proven, as a matter of fact, to have lied before, he has no credibility (not after his lie about Fast/Mission being involved in october, and at the same time, saying he doesn't lie to delay).

I have volunteered (repeatedly!) to playtest a proto MG when ready. Have yet to get a direct answer. John did send me a color print of a developmental bg sample (on paper), tho. [to be fully clear, he did reserve me a spot for RAZA before they sold out, and has not asked for prepayment on it.]

I think John was going to work with FAST/Mission after they visited him during expo in october. And then appears to have second thoughts, based at least in part on some technical concerns. So would you rather he stick with a verbal agreement to collaborate that he doesn't think is in the best interest of getting the games done? You've probably just heard one side of the story, btw.

I seriously hope you are incorrect regarding the fanboy aspect. There is more to the story in the things that you (and others) mention, and nothing close to the lack-of-license Skit-B debacle. i have seen John only being frugal and not wasteful in all his development work. So yeah, sticking with him would kill my credibility if he's been lying to me too. But the biggest resource he may have expended is his own innumerable hours in the shop. dealing with all these people and details mostly by himself. More public disclosure would be great. Hoping for that soon.

#5345 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Oh.. Ok. This makes a lot more sense now.. Why you're the one guy that's worked with him that didn't run away. John expects everyone else to work like this as well..

Not true. Artists, audio, some video, many components--all been/being handled by vendors and contractors who have done their part and/or are ready to supply parts for manufacture. But those are the ones who don't complain! (Think about it. John is pretty picky and detail-oriented in my experience, btw.)

#5348 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Is it time to raid the castle and take anything not bolted down? Love Medieval Madness

Did you pre-order one of his games? let's talk in TX.

#5351 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Uhh... John said this in October:
"We were able to solidify an ongoing working arrangement with Mission Pinball and Fast Pinball guys from Seattle last week. Effectively doubling our backend team."
which was completely NEWS to FAST/Mission until just a couple of weeks ago. There was never anything more than an introductory meeting. Yet look at the specific words used to announce it.
Now I can read into it that John wanted SOMETHING to announce because he was getting so much heat after expo from the owners. So he threw out something that wasn't even true or accurate.
And that is only one of many announcements like it.
Here's another lovely nugget from October:
"I have a new project manager starting today and we will see how he fits in. He is a pinball guy, so most of the parts he knows, but not so much my process or style and is a PM for a large company. We have set a date to show magic girl, on a rug, for mid december and I will now work on the raza schedule and report back soon which will be after that. I still have some vendors to talk to and I am creating the transition plan for the Mission software guys."
And you want to keep telling us to chill out and trust him?

Geez, I honestly need to keep closer track of this stuff if I want to comment on anything, I guess. Honestly have not seen either of these quotes. yeah, credibility is an issue here. Decisions and plans can change, but this type of stuff is not appropriate.

Not saying to just chill and trust. What I'm trying to convey, based on everything I know and currently think, is: he does need to communicate and disclose more, and take care of loose ends (like unpaid vendors), all ASAP; and that I still think the games can be finished and shipped in a reasonable timeframe with no showstoppers, but if most people bail and demand refunds now then (obviously) that could be a showstopper.

I'm gonna lay low here for a while and focus on trying to help move things in a positive direction directly. Keeping up with stuff here is time-consuming(!) although some new info does pop up that I never knew, so that's good (I guess). I will post if/when there is any significant development, of course.

#5354 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

The big difference here is that there is still a very real possibility of getting these games made. That needs to be the focus . Honesty and solutions

Agree. Because they both look pretty awesome.

#5620 4 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

That quote is both hilarious and insulting! When you deliver more than a thousand (approved and signed off on by John) PCB assemblies and you don't get paid for them, we're not talking about "not on board ... understandably unhappy".
I'm in manufacturing. I have lived and breathed it for 20+ years. I know how a typical bidding process works and usually, it's just another day at the office, win or lose.
The fact of the matter is, every project that I worked on and delivered to Zidware has FULL documentation. That is: Zidware requests a part, GLM quotes it, Zidware creates a PO, Zidware sends deposit check, GLM does the design work and sends it to Zidware for approval, Zidware approves the design, GLM produces the part, GLM delivers the part, GLM sends an invoice, Zidware pays invoice.
If the case were: Zidware requests a part, GLM quotes it, Zidware says "No thanks, someone was cheaper.", then I'd have no issues to gripe about. I'd have been more than happy to let someone else take it on (and be in this position). But that isn't how it went down.

The quote did not refer to actual parts orders like the one you describe (where the specs are confirmed and full order placed), but to one-off prototype development in the hope that the prototype will be accepted and ordered in quantity. Two different things.

#5630 4 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

The classification of a product has no bearing on the contractual business that occurred.
Zidware placed an order. Orders were fulfilled. Payment was not received. End-Of-Story.

My comment was not directed to approved and fulfilled orders, including yours. Prototyping and samples do exist when soliciting vendors, and that general case is what I was speculating on, with no specific knowledge of particular vendors' situations. Please don't conflate the two.

#5637 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Actually his lawyer hasn't been paid either, so let's not get too carried away.

I dunno, being called a 'shyster' is a new one for me! People I work with in real life would have a chuckle at that one. [EDIT: Gotta give props for "law dog" too!]

#5643 4 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

I'm Glad you took it in good humor.

I'm seriously trying to help these games get done, trying to persuade John to show more stuff publicly, etc. That's as a pinball hobbyist who really wants to see these games completed and shipped so everyone is happy. Apart from the pro bono IP work, I'm just a guy that emails and talks to John periodically. I'm not his official/unofficial rep except for the IP/legal stuff. And I've been posting here just to try to help in general. Yeah, THAT is going over really well!

#5650 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I admit, I'm baffled at why Jpop is ordering $70000 in LEDs, and 1000 boards, for ... what exactly? He's nowhere close to a production game, what in the world are all those parts for?

My guess (and I refuse to do anything more than guess anymore!) is they are production parts, of course, because the design and those parts are finalized. Artwork, cabling, parts specs etc. are basically done for MG from what I saw. Don't think he prioritized relatively 'standard' stuff like powering and controlling the games, having done that before (B/W, Zizzle etc.) So he focused on finalizing the layout, design, artwork, toys, sound, cabinet first. That is my guess. And only a guess, based on what I've seen. (And RAZA is not far behind wrt that stuff.)

#5658 4 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

People are appreciative of your help. Obviously you don't want to get in the same situation as the Predator crew, the sounding boards there (Fast pinball, the cabinet maker, etc) got kind of blindsided in the whole situation.

Thx, and i *hope* I'm not that situation. I really did see MG and RAZA recently, and apart from having the "guts" (cpu/i-o/driver stuff) hooked up and flipping, the rest looks basically production-ready: cabinets, playfields, mechanical parts, audio, plastics, lighting (except for a few new toys and position adjustments to be finalized on RAZA and the main plastic ramp on MG). Not saying the control aspect is trivial, but it seems like John worked thru the design aspects first. You'll never see a flipping "whitewood" for these titles because the playfield and parts are already production-quality. And many of the components were tested in sub-assemblies rather than on a bare-wood layout.

Please don't shoot me for just sharing this non-proprietary info and some speculations here!

#5662 4 years ago
Quoted from slapshot:

StevenP, as John's lawyer when you make comments like there is no cash crunch and money is not an issue producing the games and other positive news without knowing for certain, I don't think that is helpful. We have legitimate concern with the money we have invested and when the guy who has our money goes dark and we are getting information through you, his lawyer as a 3rd party, no offence but we don't want fluff and guess's, we want facts.

I get the uncertainty and frustration with lack of communication. I was relaying general comments made to me, speaking as an individual and not as his lawyer/representative in these topics, without having gone thru the books or anything like Ice is proposing to do. Figuring maybe some indirect info was better than none. So, if that level of info is doing more harm than good, message received. I'll stop posting in JPOP threads/topics, period. it already seems like the best course of action from my personal perspective.

I. Will. Stop. Now.

3 weeks later
#7183 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

Not just blaming, but those are some very thinly veiled threats of legal retaliation for "Great Harm" to his business.
Edit: Since he is obviously referencing StevenP with that last paragraph, I sure would love to hear his thoughts on suing JPOP's critics for damaging his business.

OK, I was minding my own business this evening, playing in the Modern pinball league, when someone there told me there was new JPOP controversy online. So this is the first I've heard of it, just now. As I've been reminding John more and more recently, I'm representing him in intellectual property matters; I'm not a business lawyer and not a litigator and not a bankruptcy attorney. I'm not a "law dog" (although I do like that tagline!) and frankly, I don't think his attitude is helpful. I'm not in control of what he does or doesn't do, and can't force him to follow my friendly common-sense suggestions. In fact, the *only* message I've given him lately (and consistently) (OK, for some time now) is basically this:

Quoted from Rarehero:

John, it's this simple:
When you don't, conversations that you don't like will flourish.
You don't respond to your own customers! If you did that, and issued refunds for those requesting them...no one would be so pissed at you!

I have been imploring him to publicly show and explain what he has done to date, with lots of pictures and video and audio. So far, he simply won't. It really is frustrating and a shame.

Quoted from PinChili:

Which design are you referring to? There hasn't been a flipping whitewood yet, right? So aside from some cool artwork and theme what else is there? Stern would buy incomplete game designs? And do you think John considered BOM cost in his designs like Stern does? And how do the pre-order folks not feel screwed regardless since they were expecting a game with exclusivity and they paid significantly more than what Stern could sell them for.
No way this option happens despite it being a nice thought that someone would bail John out.

Here's where the disconnect is. The 2 titles are mostly complete. Starting with cabinet design and art for both (finalized and all they need is an order placed for production), MG playfield is about 95% complete--I'm talking full artwork, complete layout, ALL mechanisms (including many new toys, plus flippers, bumpers, ramps, magnets, printed plastics, very cool lighting, etc.--all production-ready parts), sound system, a capable boardset (i/o designed by Quetzal, i believe, plus a driver board with serial light addressing, and a specced motherboard--not dissimilar to WOZ, I think), plus original music, a lot of voicework, and a bunch of animation developed for the LCD screen. RAZA is very close to this stage, with a few original playfield toys and a ramp to be finalized and a bit of tweaking to some ramp/post placements. Full artwork is done--payfield, cabinet, plastics. Layout is basically done apart from finalizing the few toys. Not sure how much audio and video are done for this title. These games are NOT that far from being finished, and most of the components are basically production-ready (i.e., fully designed and ready to produce in quantity, where all it would take is to place orders and assemble the parts). This is stuff I saw in person in March.

And do people know this? Not many. Will John show and tell people all of this? I keep hoping so...

#7190 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

You seem to know him best....please, help us understand the psychology at work here....the big question - "WHY!?!?!" Why does he feel like silence and lack of communication is benefiting him? If there's a Pro and Con list for how he's going about things, what could possibly be in the Pro column? Forget about Pinside for a second...he clearly sees that his own buyers and supporters want communication and answers...they're clearly angry. What could possibly be his reason for continuing in the same manner?

I wish I had an answer. I am not a psychologist. And I don't get it either. I'm as baffled as anyone else about this. Sorry, I have nuthin'.

As for Aurich's comments above, I know what I saw. I agree that he should definitely put his cards on the table. But I am stating what I saw, all the pieces, printed playfields, MG with all major stuff assembled (in triplicate--3 "full" prototypes) except for a production-quality main plastic ramp assembly. The boardset (cpu/mb, i/o, driver) running a video screen etc. The programming may take a bit of time (I won't guess here) but the components are 95% or so done for MG and maybe 80-85% on RAZA. You can choose not to believe me. I have no control over that. But if you're calling me a liar for stating what I saw with my own eyes, then the burden is on YOU to prove that. And no, I don't live in or near Chiago, so I can';t just film/photograph stuff and post it online.

And this is why I have tended to avoid the crapshow that is Pinside. No good deed goes unpunished....

#7191 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Don't even post it publicly! You have people who signed an NDA and are apparently crazy enough to still be following it, even though it's utterly invalidated, and he couldn't afford a lawyer if he wanted to.
Put it on the sekrit blog. Isn't that what people ponied up $20,000 to see? They paid for all the access, Steve is telling us they're practically done, and no one has seen one. It's like a freaking unicorn.
Steve, you know I'm not trying to pick on you here, but what you're saying is insanity. If you're right, and I seriously have trouble believing, but if you are, and he's not posting that for the owners? He's a psychopath. People are ready to murder him, they're ready to take him to court, they want to burn things to the ground, and he won't even show them the thing they're paying to see? It's madness.
This is setting aside the fact that both games could be 100% done and he still couldn't build them. Again, I played Predator. Finished game. No one got one in the year it took to drag Kevin down. This isn't about "it's just missing a few toys". Oh, and code. That pesky code. All that, and you're still a long way out from done, and requiring a lot more money than he's already spent. That he doesn't have.
Explain to me how any of this makes any sense, because you still seem to be holding out this thought that he's *so close*.

OK, not disagreeing with you here. (You posted this as I was typing above!) And I'll repeat, I have NO explanation for this. And it's frustrating as hell to me. I don't know why. But yes, i saw this stuff in person. MG looked very close to a production game, top and bottom of playfield, plus cabinet. RAZA had a few placeholder toys/mechs (out of many populating the pf.) I've been imploring John to communicate and inform people. I don't know why he still isn't doing this.

#7193 4 years ago

P.S. A few others here have visited the workshop within the past few months. You saw this stuff too, right? I wasn't really hallucinating the whole thing, really....

#7231 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

While I don't doubt that you saw 90% complete games, it's certainly possible. Also it was posted around the time of Expo that MG was 90%-95% complete and that was half a year ago.
But this is not shown to his buyers, why?
Why can't he finish the pins if they are so close? Does he need more money? It's been 3 years and $1,000,000 in hand. He needs more time and/or money. He even admits he's looking for outside investors.
Also it's the last 10% that needs to be done that is worrying, do you suppose that's the easy 10% or the hardest part? Also making a prototype is one thing, WoZ was there and Hobbit for a long time before they went from prototype to production, a long time MMR also. It could still be years not months if these pins are still a go.
Also, I've heard (in computer world) where a product was mocked up and presented. I believe this was Bill Gates with 'Windows' where the product was not anywhere in any way able to work. But he made a slideshow in a way that was convincing that the product was close.
Also, what is the benifit to John by not showing anything? There is no benifit so in the absence benifit I look for the sinister implications.
StevenP has John been inundated with requests for refunds? If so, does he realize that's a problem? And that bunkering down and not responding is not a good idea?
Wasn't John supposed to give major reveals of MG last December and RAZA this January? It's now April.

With respect to "mockups," I can state with reasonable confidence that the physical pieces are there, as indicated earlier. I have been fixing pinball machines for over 30 years and know what makes them tick. It wasn't empty shells that I saw. I can't speak to the amount of effort needed for programming and ultimate completion, though. (But it seems much programming is done after assembly and shipment these days anyway.)

I can't answer your other questions, to be honest. I am not part of John's daily business dealings, have no 'inside' on his communications or finances. I only know what he shares with me. All I've suggested/implored lately is that John be responsive to customers, show and explain all the stuff he has done to date, in detail, and stop keeping things secret at this point. How he proceeds is completely out of my control. And again, I'd like to make clear that I've only been helping John legally with respect to intellectual property matters (and a lease), and (as I have indicated to him as well) I am not and will not be part of any actions involving him and his customers, whether it be bankruptcy, contract/consumer disputes, whatever. Not my field of law and I didn't volunteer for that! Lawdog out!

#7233 4 years ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

Hello all - I'm the artist on JPOPs 'recent' machines - I haven't heard for him in a few weeks and started doing some diggin which led me here - can someone summarize what is going on? thanks in advance!

Yo Jeremy. It's a mess here, as you can see. I have no explanations. But, welcome to Pinside?

#7265 4 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Is the mess here or at Zidware?


#7269 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

Hey StevenP,
First of all, thank you for coming back to the thread. It is really nice to hear from someone who John choses to actually talk to.
Second, thank you for your assurances that you would not be any part of his threats.
Can you confirm that you were not his "advisor …(snip)... as a “very good” friend and legal guru since day one." that he referenced copying on that last letter?
If you were who he was referencing, it would make many people feel a lot better that his threats are completely empty. If you weren't, do you know who this "Legal Guru" is?
I seriously am not going on a witch-hunt here, I am just trying to get definitive proof of whether John's threats of legal retaliation are completely empty or not. For all I know, he could still have a lifelong friend who is willing to give him pro-bono help in suing his critics and customers. After all, you don't have to have any strong legal footing to sue anyone in this country, and make them deal with the pain and expense of defending themselves. Arron from Fast Pinball has stated that such threats have moderated his public opinions on this, so I know that I am not alone in picking up those threats.
If he is using his relationship with you to add credibility to his threats of legal retaliation in an attempt to silence his critics, I would love for you to clear the air about that.
Again, thank you for coming back to the thread. And I apologize if I was wrong in assuming he was referencing you in that last paragraph.

I came back to visit Pinside because someone told me about the latest controversy and that I may be referenced in it. I have not received (nor asked for) direct confirmation from the source (because I don't want to go there), but i do think I may well be the referenced "legal guru." (Although I do prefer Lawdog!) And I do not condone any implications that I would be initiating (nor even defending) any legal actions relating to Zidware. As i have reminded John several times, i'm only handling IP stuff, and I suggested he get a business/corporate/consumer/whatever lawyer if he needs representation for any legal disputes relating to Zidware. It is simply not my area of law, and I did not sign up for that!

I hope that clears the air sufficiently. I also don't think he is seriously contemplating legal action (my opinion). I think the negativity is getting to him and he's reacting badly. My advice to him (as friend and hobbyist who's somewhat aware of the current controversies) continues to be to show and explain everything he has and his plans for completing things, and do so publicly. And to communicate with customers and address their requests and questions.

Honestly, if someone were brought in to take charge of these projects, and the production runs expanded, I still believe these 2 titles could be completed and produced profitably (with MG priced like RAZA). And that they would be amazingly cool games. But getting there seems like a huge step.

#7270 4 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Grab a 6 pack and get the hell outta there buddy!!!!!

Gonna need a 6-pack of 40s for this mess!

#7281 4 years ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

I hear you & in my case I don't want to disparage a guy I've worked with for years and have a ton of respect for without knowing everything. I'm not trying to be coy - just respectful - not just to John but to the buyers of his machines... I've spoken with a few of you and hopefully you know where I stand. I want to see these machines made and everyone made whole...


And given that most (all?) RAZA games are not fully pre-paid (I don't know the details), the additional payments, plus expanding the runs, could well cover parts and production with some profit, imo. I don't think it's a huge leap financially to get the games done, and if they are as cool as they look to be, demand and more units could be pretty profitable imo. I admit, there's a lot of things to sort out first to get there, though. And like Z. Yeti, I just want to see these games made and everyone happy, as I've said many times.

#7287 4 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

Thank you for the clarification. It absolutely clears the air.
You are a good guy, StevenP, even if your zidware glasses are a little rosier tinted than most others these days. John needs to listen to you.

I try, I try. And the truth is, beyond all the problems and issues, he HAS put a ton of time and effort into these projects (full-time and then some) and has already addressed a huge amount of details to make these things production-ready. He wasn't just drawing layouts on paper/computer and putting together some artwork on a cabinet. Stuff like the plastics set (shape/artwork), detailed printed playfields with inserts, etc., many custom parts (brackets, toys, mechanisms) designed and ready for manufacture, a capable and appropriate modern boardset to run the game, lots of original music and voices and display graphics, a sound system, cabling laid out for production, lighting (incl. some new improvements), new cabinet design... all of this is in place. For MG and (with a few toys being finalized) for RAZA. This isn't just a designer ready to hand over a design to the "engineering department" to do the heavy lifting; the engineering has been done in parallel.

So, seeing all this stuff has tinted my glasses a bit rosier than most. And makes me really hopeful that these games will get finished somehow. Because i like pinball. And, despite any possible personality quirks, i really do like John too and think he has good intentions to make great pinball for his customers, believe it or not. I am well aware that good intentions can make for good paving material!

#7357 4 years ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

I won't disagree with you at all. I do hope for the best - but am preparing for the worst I suppose.
I do want to say that popping in here (or jpopping in? too soon?) has lifted my spirits. I've been working on the pinball stuff for years with no way to show or get real feedback until recently. It makes me smile to hear so many people appreciate the effort I've put into it. It means a LOT! Thanks everyone - you've got a rad community here!

C'mon Jeremy, you *do* know you're the main reason why Stern got suckered into a Kiss license, right?

#7443 4 years ago


4 weeks later
#9500 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

There could be money left, but now we have a letter from JPop himself saying that he doesn't have any money. The only way to know for sure is to get him into bankruptcy proceedings.
My least favorite part of the letter is how he threatens owners to take one of the new deals offered, otherwise you won't get shit!
This is the letter that StevenP helped him with??

No, it isn't. I just learned of this particular letter with the rest of you. I'm not directly involved in this current proposal; I've just been generally encouraging John to find a way to get the games made and shipped to customers.

Quoted from Pimp77:

StephenP, if you really helped write this letter to customers then you are a real dirtbag too.

It's "StevenP" and no, I did not as noted above. But thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt with the "if" above. Seriously, I am not privy to details of this arrangement. It came as a surprise to me too. Sorry, but I'm not the bad guy here--just the patent lawyer. (OK, Lawdawg!)

#9571 4 years ago
Quoted from kmoore88:

StevenP, right?

Wrong. I had nothing to do with this particular letter and confirmation form. The first time I saw it was this morning. It was not the 'personal' communication that I was editing, which is apparently not going to be sent at this point. The current arrangement renders that letter moot.

#9673 4 years ago

Yep. And for the record, I am not involved in, nor aware of, any "scheme to provoke us into offering up a 'tortious interference with a prospective business' claim on a silver platter." Whatever the hell that means.

And again, I am in no way involved with the current Zidware goings-on. I have no idea what Mr. Mueller thinks my involvement is. I first learned of this stuff when I saw the recent emailed docs earlier today. And to date I've never met, spoke with, nor otherwise directly communicated with, the "licensee." Because I'm not involved in this deal. Got it, Robert?

#9676 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

StevenP you are a Marsh? Brothers don't shake hands, brothers gotta hugggg!!!!!!

Word! Have you met our Cousin Eugene from Missouri?

#9688 4 years ago
Quoted from slapshot:

Did you edit Jpop's letter for him?

Not this one. A completely different one that was not part of the current deal, and obviously is not being sent.

#9705 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

So what is stopping you from posting the now defunct deal you were trying to help out?

That wasn't a "deal" but just an update letter with some specific info, now moot.

#9711 4 years ago

#9947 4 years ago

I'm kinda following Jeremy's sentiments here. Ultimately this is a case of trying to make the best out of a bad situation. (And I admit I have even less skin in this game than Jeremy.) At least somebody is trying to do something. Although I hope there will be more info and an extension of the deadline--my personal assessment is there's too much being asked for on faith right now.

#9963 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

This is totally valid and the secrecy and the fact that John's good associate gives you a thumbs down is troubling. SteveP, you should not get involved with thumbing down valid arguments unless you have something to say on the matter out in the open.

OK, to the best of my knowledge (and it is pretty good knowledge), this is not a 'shell' game, there is an outside licensee/investor/whatever who is not John and who is trying to work out a way to get these games made and to the original customers, plus more (necessitated by simple economics.

I don't mind saying this much, but please don't tell me what I should or should not do. I gave it a thumbs down because it is simply not true--a perfectly appropriate use of the "thumbs down" button@!

#9969 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

If the "licensee" is really smart, he'd be pulling a JPop on JPop:
1.. Meet with JPop. Tell him you'll take care of everything. "Just sign this document. And pass that prototype over. I'll have 'my people' (sorry, can't tell you who they are just yet, trust me) "immediately get things started on putting the game into production. Don't worry John. We have it all figured out. Here's a picture of the front of a building we'll be doing the work in. Your game and license will be taken care of."
2.. Sell prototype
3.. PROFIT and get money back

hmmm... sounds familiar.....

#9979 4 years ago
Quoted from generica:

Or to put it another way, how can you spend $1mil and 4 years in one room and not have anything real to show for it? I would go postal if I was working 10 hour days, isolated from the world, with no progress or point to the day's activities... how can you tinker aimlessly that long and stay sane?

He does have a lot to show for it. I'm not being an apologist for how everything was handled, but just trying to clarify some misperceptions. There are 2 virtually complete games designed, production-quality parts and all. One should be revealed very soon, if what I've been told is correct. Just because he hasn't shown it (for whatever reason!) doesn't mean there's nothing to show. Anybody who has visited his workshop knows this. And I can't imagine somebody would try to step in to get the games done if they were just in early stages of development.

#10686 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I agree, just start over.
The only value in the IP is the artwork. Zombie Yeti is the star of this show. Imagine what he could accomplish if his work didn't have to be squeezed through the cheese grater of John's mind?
Save your 9k and buy a game from whatever company hires Yeti to make something just as pretty, but much cheaper, than Zidware crap.

I gotta disagree with this. Are you really saying that the 2 complete layouts, custom parts and lighting designs, music/voicework, new toy designs, etc. are all worth nothing? It will be interesting to see how people compare the MG prototype to AMH in a few weeks, I guess.

#10691 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Yup, until we see a working, playable game, it's worth nothing.
AMH might not be as pretty as John's games but it's real and shipping. Is John in his shop at this very moment, tweaking code on Memorial Day like I am?

My guess is he is working on the prototype today. But just because you haven't seen the full flipping prototype does not mean it doesn't exist or is 'worthless,' as per your suggestion of 'starting over with just the artwork.' You really can't see the flaws in your reasoning here?

[EDIT] To be clear, I know pretty much everyone is royally pissed at John, and I'm not defending him in any way by these remarks. I am simply pointing out that, taking the emotion out of the situation, there are objectively 2 basically complete pinball layouts with good flow and a lot of new features, plus many improvements in lighting and display, and new toys, etc. in these 2 designs. Objectively speaking, all of this is not 'worthless.'

#10713 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

You've said this multiple times and no one has seen anything new. I would suggest you'd be better off not cheerleading John in any way. Because IMO you still are.

Thanks for your suggestion, but I'll ignore it. Because I have seen the full prototypes, as have others. So your statement that "no one has seen anything new" is simply false. And I am not cheerleading at all. Not defending John's actions or anything like that. Just adding a little bit of objectivity and some facts in the midst of all the reactionary emotion here. Because the best outcome would be to get the games made and shipped to customers. Emotion and exaggeration and insults won't do that. A reasoned plan like Bill's might, and that is worth supporting IMO.

#10768 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Bill has good intentions and you I know have done a lot of work and supported John from day one, and I believe there is a lot of work product there, there should be, its been 4 years.
But, its looking like this is such a Cluster F that its tough to see how you can overcome all of the negative emotions that John has spawned.
The constant lies and exaggerations on his part, over and over again, all while spending our money on his salary and at least in my mind, trying to defraud people into sending more money in knowing full well he was misrepresenting where things were at.
Look at Chris's statement, John basically scammed him into being part of RAZA. Stating that Raza was "almost done", two years ago. And basically every other lied about timeline and BS he's thrown out there. People HATE that!
It's horrendous.

Yep. Not disagreeing or criticizing. Just trying to point out that things already done can't be undone, and when trying to make the best of a bad situation (like getting these games completed and shipped to those who paid for them), emotions don't help the process.

#10859 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

16k is about double what the current LE or JJP goes for. Without rarity, or the inclusion of a 1k/night hooker, and considering the taint of the Jpop pedigree, I don't see a market for this game.

Yep. I could see it selling a lot in the $9-10k range if all the pieces are put together (including a great ruleset). My understanding all along was the $16k price was based largely on rarity, and without that, it is a game more comparable to RAZA in price/features/BOM. Although in that range, the features are more in line with a Hobbit/WOZ than a Stern LE or AMH, imo.

#10880 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'd take a playabe real game like Stern LE or AMH over a feature rich but not real game any day wouldn't you? Its been 4 years and he still is not at the prototype stage yet.


#10882 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

There are a lot of assets that would go for big bucks at auction... That Kiss prototype is probably worth a pretty penny...

AFAIK, that Kiss prototype can't be sold. it's not licensed, and would (in my general opinion) fall under the category of "fan art." Nevertheless, selling it would probably be a no-no.

#10885 4 years ago
Quoted from pinball_customs:

Why is it anytime someone tries to remain calm and sound positive in this thread they're instantly labeled a "Zidware PR person"? I'm simply suggesting that people have an open mind for a few weeks longer and give Bill the chance he deserves to work some "magic" of his own.
And yes, I do have a horse in this race. And yes, I too am mad at John. But jumping to conclusions isn't going to solve anything (that's what made me submit my money in the first place)

Good luck trying to reason with the horde of armchair quarterbacks here. Especially those who don't even have any money at risk! (And that is what makes Pinside such a warm and fuzzy place to celebrate the joys of the pinball hobby. I'm gonna stick to in-person gatherings/expos/tourneys going forward. It's sad because the more rational and considerate folks here also tend to be the ones who rarely post.)

#10892 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Yep, you can tell Steven is a sychophant!!! Arm chair quarterback?? Lol between jpoop and Shit-b there are millions of dollars unaccountaded for. Yea, we here at pinside are the bad guys lol. You are just as delusional as your master, possibly more so as you keep coming here saying there are games almost ready to ship, yet you bring no evidence whatsoever. Go back to johns cave until you have facts to back up your statements. pdxtoo

LOL at anyone who takes offense at my remarks. Speaks volumes about the offendee. (P.S. You clearly have missed the point of my message and my general sentiments here. Not surprising.)

#10893 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Great thinking....
Because LESS critical scrutiny and MORE mindless cheer-leading has worked SO WELL on these failed projects to date....

You forgot to add "mindless bashing by those not involved" as another successful Pinside stratagem.

#10899 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I don't see it as mindless bashing if we are stating facts. John promised untold reveals and Kevin promised he had full license, but the 'mindless bashing' as you call it stated that Kevin couldn't have a full license and John couldn't have enough money. We're the mindless ones and you are the wise one, I get it.

Lots more than 'facts' stated here. Not defending anyone's improper actions by any means, but people not involved with MG/RAZA/AIW piling on and adding fuel to the fire? And attacking/bashing people who are trying to salvage the situation and get games made and sent to people who paid for them? THAT is supposed to be smart?

#10901 4 years ago
Quoted from Major:

So you're saying there is a working prototype, right now... this very minute? Otherwise he is correct, not you. So which is it? If there is not a working prototype right this second, your credibility is nil. You should also show your work and prove it if you claim there is one.

There is one; not mine to show. But I've seen it, as have others.

Quoted from rai:

I don't see it as mindless bashing if we are stating facts. John promised untold reveals and Kevin promised he had full license, but the 'mindless bashing' as you call it stated that Kevin couldn't have a full license and John couldn't have enough money. We're the mindless ones and you are the wise one, I get it.

Remind me: have you even paid money towards MG, RAZA or AIW? (I sincerely don't know.)

#10978 4 years ago

Bravo! Was wondering if someone would spot that. As it was certainly in my mind when I posted. I am certainly not above the fray here, and wouldn't claim to be.

And with that, my Pinside posting (appropriately) comes to an end.

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