(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (3 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (3 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (3 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (3 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (3 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (3 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (3 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (3 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#2438 5 years ago

Until John has a production manager he HAS to listen to and a production house that is willing to take on the actual manufacturing of his product, there will be on Zidware/Jpop games. I wish John and his pre-order/investors good luck, everyone is going to need plenty.

1 month later
#3950 5 years ago
Quoted from DevilsTuner:

What factory is this at? JJp? That mega awesome if things are getting ready to roll out!

Factory? Just looks like a warehouse to me. Where is the *production*?

#3951 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

That's not accurate. They self-financed the game until it was finished. Then they took orders as they went to production, first customers started receiving them 6 months later. They had a completed game at shows, flyers and promo videos made when they started taking money.
Big difference between that and sending money in for an idea years in advance.

Amen.

3 weeks later
#4259 5 years ago

2007 - world economic collapse.
2015 - boutique pinball economic collapse.

#4452 5 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

This is entirely BS and borderline slander. Watch it dude. Seriously. I speak from knowledge; you babble from ignorance.

Conjecture and slander are two different things.

1 week later
#5015 5 years ago

Over 5000 entries in this thread and precious little, if any, progress. The facts speak for themselves.

#5116 5 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

I know that Churchill has a contract with Stern, and they can't do business with other companies because of it.

Sorry, wrong.

#5168 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Call Gary Stern "cheap" but he's successfully running a business and MAKING GAMES.

Uh, yep. Simple is almost always true.

#5169 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

hug your kids every day.

Always have, always will. Time waits for no one.

#5171 5 years ago
Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:

12 games built if you count MM remake and Whoa Nellie...

You can't count what has not happened. Still; TEN.

#5175 5 years ago

No pictures yet, but I'm sure we are about to bump the number up to 11.

#5176 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

"it's only pinball"

Indeed.

#5314 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I think just like Kevin and SkitB, the reality has set in, its not fantasy land anymore .......... <snip> ......... regarding the speed and difficulty of pins in production and out the door........ <snip> ........You have to be able to adapt and get shit done! Isn't it clear that is the problem?

Building anything beyond a prototype or two in your garage/1200 square foot warehouse space is pretty much impossible. The elements of designing a pinball machine are exciting to creative minds and I can see why. This leads said creative minds to venture forth with the making of a prototype machine when they haven't the first clue about the pearls of production. Production is a completely different animal. It's also hard work; factory work, something most all creative minds don't really care for. Therefore, the complex elements that need to be put into place for production are not given much thought during the creative, fun, exciting time period of game development and prototype building. Once the prototype is more or less built the mission has been accomplished in the mind of its creator. This is unfortunate and leads to a mostly working prototype machine with no plans in place as how to manufacture it in quantity.

I know 100 or 250 units don't sound like big numbers, and they aren't if you have a fully functioning assembly house like Stern has. However, if you are starting with zero means to manufacture, even 20 units is a big number. Seriously. Ask Charlie over at Spooky Pinball how big of a number 150 is (the planned number of AMH machines). He'll tell you its a much larger number than you could ever imagine if you have nothing in place to accomplish the mission. He started from scratch, did the right things the right way, way worked hard, very hard, watched his pennies, didn't get caught in an endless designing phase loop, and it STILL took him over a year to put out his first machine. This is a best case scenario, most others who try will come up short of this feat.

I know it's turned into a joke, but *building pinball machines is hard*. Couple that with the fact that the prepay model is dead and you have a recipe for lots of failure in 2015.

#5315 5 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

John has however long the Skit-B shitstorm lasts to get his shit together.
Once they're done there, they'll move into him.

In no way do I want to see the failure of any so called pinball machine manufacturing companies. It's not good for the hobby and it's not good for any entities that do business inside the hobby.

Unfortunately I see no reason for Ben's statement to not be 100% true.

-1
#5366 5 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

There are a lot of concerning similarities between John and Kevin.
both projects have dragged on for years longer than necessary with little to show for it
both have charismatic personalities that allay fears with personal/emotional interaction
both rely on third parties to relay calming messages to the masses
both withdraw from direct contact with the public (the victims? a guilt thing?)
both have "closed books" and the financial situation and transactions are known only to them
both have multiple projects running at once
both have preorder $ that will expire past a dispute deadline due to the extended project time
both have been caught lying to delay/extend deadline dates indefinitely
both use vague or evasive language
That's enough for this post, but maybe more people can play the "similarity game" if you can think of something important or relevant.

The torches are still lit and the pitchforks are already out of the barn and in our hands. Kevin's place is already burnt to the ground. No reason to go home, let's just march on over to John's place and torch that sucker as well. Now that I think of it, weren't the Hobbit machines supposed to start shipping in December of last year? Hmmm..... torches still lit, pitchforks still in hand.
2015; what a year in pinball to remember, I bet.

1 week later
#5897 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

notenoughtime.png

More specifically, *everything* on THREE games.

1 week later
#6224 4 years ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

And Jack did... and has done pretty darn well.
D

Really? You might want to look into the current state of things.

-1
#6225 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

JJP is likely the next major fiasco for pinball on the horizon IMHO.

Yep, stop number 3 on the 2015 tour of failure.

1 month later
#8679 4 years ago

Haven't looked into this thread since page 125. I see that nothing has happened. At what point is it over? Never, if John never admits it? it's like the war on terror; it will never be over because there will never be any sort of official surrender.

No point in suing John as there really isn't much to recover. Is everyone going to take 1 part from 1 of the 3 prototype machines? Not worth the effort. So again, is it possible that it will literally never have an *offical* end? I don't see John ever formally throwing in the towel, just simply evaporating over time.

#8680 4 years ago

Dateline 2025...... Jpop reveals new under cabinet art. It's never been done in pinball before. Maybe Zidware is back on track and games will go into production soon!

1 week later
#9311 4 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

It is still possible you might think that a investor(s) comes in, & takes full control. Starts the refund process to those who want out. Pays all the contractors owed money. Then moves forward with production, of those still in for pinball machines. You get the process moving forward, & can learn from what has been done for small production. Once you get those games out, you can start selling more of the models.

Well, that didn't happen.

#9321 4 years ago
Quoted from GreenMeerkat:

One has to wonder, if you don't respond within 4 days do they think that Zidware gets to keep the money with no hope of refund? Seems to me that Mr Popadiuk is likely going to be hitting bankrupcy soon as I just can't imagine too many people agreeing to such an outlandish scenario in such a short time.

The letter clearly states the Zidware is still on the hook for monies received:

"To be clear, there will not be any refunds as Zidware lacks the cash reserves necessary to return any
customer deposits. The Licensee is here to create and build pinball machines and it is not responsible for
Zidware’s liabilities".

#9363 4 years ago
Quoted from greatwichjohn:

Yes it didn't pan out fairly in my opinion. That is why i'm out. Said in the past numerous times contractors need to be paid, & people should be able to get a refund. I don't know who is the investor unless they come out since a few were in the running possibly or were trying to get this saved. I was never in the loop, & have had no personal dealing with John!

Completely understand. I did not mean to imply that you knew any behind the scenes details. I was only commenting on *what could of been* and what actually ended up happening.

#9645 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There IS an investor. One we are very lucky to have.
I'll let him reveal himself. He's doing it for love of pinball. Who else is gonna jump into this shitstorm?
Option A. Don't agree to this. Sue John personally. Zidware is broke. Good luck with that
Option B. Agree to this and you get a pinball machine. Investor is risking over 1 million bucks
We all knew there would be more MGs to make the numbers work
You get John OUT of the $$$ part. What more do you want?

It's going to take a lot more than 1 million dollars of personal investment. If that's all the angel invested (who is not actually an investor!) is bringing to the table then we'll be right back here again in a year or so. The money pit that awaits is almost bottomless.

#9646 4 years ago

Double post.

11
#9657 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

BS. He's not an idiot either.
You also have the option to go away and not do anything

He is a coward though; purposely not revealing himself until this plays out. Sounds like he doesn't want any egg on his face if it all goes south. Not very smart either. He should know that not revealing himself harms the deal.

Here's another option: go away for now and wait and see how it plays out. Zidware will still owe me a game and I can still sue him if I feel like it later. Just because his piece of paper says I won't get anything if I don't sign it doesn't mean that's what will happen. He's still in breach of the original contract, regardless of any new contract I don't sign.

#9662 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If the assets are so valuable why didn't Stern or JJP bail him out?
They told him to get lost
The gift horse here is that you have a choice, yours to make
Nobody likes John or the situation

I've decided. I'm 100% out. I'm in on RAZA and out on this deal. If it takes everyone who has money in to sign on or nothing moves forward then know right now that it isn't going to move forward. I will not sign that piece of paper.

#9669 4 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

There's that name again. Who is Marsh?

StevenP

#9687 4 years ago
Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:

..........if it's Jack, lots of people (80%? 90%?) would be pretty confident he can make it happen.

How late is The Hobbit again?

#9753 4 years ago
Quoted from GoBlue:

Can we lock this thread yet?

And kill the most entertaining thread ever? I thought we were here to have fun

#9777 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

I've seen someone go after another company with lawsuit for something very similar... at the end of the day the new investor is the correct solution of u take emotion out of the thinking... Would I like to see Jpop tarred and feathered hell Ya... But the new investor just continues the time table with a Hail Mary pass... Jpop is still a piece of cow dung for letting this take a extra year of him hiding the inevitable from us.

There is no new investor. The is only someone who has bought the rights to Magic Girl. This a very big and important difference.

15
#9804 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I've slept on it. This deal is DOA.
200 people will not pay $16k for a pinball. Let alone all the nonsense of "no sue", 2 credits, waiting years longer for games already 4 years in development, etc.
There's no point delaying the inevitable. Let John go bankrupt. It was a nice thought to try and save us pre-orderers, but there is no saving this. John was the architect of his own demise, wasted our money, and rightly will deserve the shame and ridicule for the rest of his life for what he has done.

Yes, please let this die. Do not sign the agreement. It only restricts your rights. Please remember that there is no investor, only someone who is buying the Magic Girl license. I know I've said this a couple of times before, but read the contract! Zidware is still 100% on the hook for all their liabilities! Signing this gets no one closer to a machine, only further away from being able to do anything about it. This *new deal* is still a crowd funded project, a project that has went no where in 4 years.

#9843 4 years ago

Pinside consists of its members. If Pinside is the blame, then it's really just us that are to blame. It's all nothing more than pretzel logic anyway. JOHN is to blame. Period.

10
#9888 4 years ago

I'm staying in the hobby, but I'm out on pre-orderers. Giving John money without doing my due diligence is my fault, not the hobby's. Sure John is to blame for all his wrong doing, but I did give him the money. Shame on me. I can get to sleep at night knowing I'm an idiot. I'll live. How does John sleep?

#9903 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

I totally support Pinside on this. I made a decision, and will live with losing the money as necessary. Pinside opens up information streams and hence helps, not hinders, the situation. Personal responsibility must be taken. Don't blame the messenger.

I agree. Also don't let yourself be talked into another round of *give me your money* by the new license holder. Remember, he wants your money just as bad a John did. No matter what this mystery person's past history is, one thing is for sure; he has never made a Magic Girl and doing so is damn near (if not completely) impossible.

#9904 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Stay in the hobby. Buy real machines when they are ready to ship. Crisis resolved.

yep, it's pretty much just that easy.

#9932 4 years ago

1)This is NOT a Zidware/JPOP bailout...

You're right, it is not. I wish it was. If the new license owner (who is in no way assuming any Zidware liabilies) was fully vested then he would also be refunding anyone who wanted out. The new license owner does not want to send YOU any money, he wants you to send HIM money. Let's stay very clear here one what the *new deal* really is.

#9956 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Why on earth would the new license owner offer to refund people out of his own pocket?
The "new deal" and clarification is coming. If you don't like it, ignore it.
Some people will, some people won't.
It's just a F ing option. What about that concept can there be that people don't get?
Without the "option", you are left holding the bag guaranteed. Listen to what Yeti says.

Without choosing one of the bad options being offered I can still be part of any lawsuit that will develope. I will not have signed away my right to do that. What do I get if I do sign up? More money (a lot more) out of pocket with little to no chance of ever getting a grossly overpriced game that I didn't sign up for (I'm in on RAZA, not MG).

You are 100 pecent correct that no one should take on all the Zidware liability. That still doesn't make any of the new license holder's options worth a damn. You assuming a game will get made. BIG assumption.

#10237 4 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

NO NEW CONTRACTS should be required for CUSTOMERS. NONE !

100 percent agree. There should be no reason for us customers to sign anything. We simply need to decide if and when we ever want to send anyone involved with the production of these games any money. I still want a refund and neither Zidware or the new license holder's are offering that. Zidware is in breach of their contract and I want my money back. I'm still waiting for this option or I'm inclined to sue for it. I never signed up for any version of a Magic Girl. I signed up to receive a RAZA in 2013. That didn't happen. Give me my money back.

Stern is the only assembly house able to assemble these machines. And if they do it will not be the impossible to manufacture game john half designed. It will be a Stern *ish* game and certainly not worth $16,000.

#10251 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

No we are not asking for money up front from existing customers.

You say that here, but I see that no where in the new contract. Specifically, "no more money due until your game is delivered".

#10270 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Bill, regardless of the potential merits of your out-of-court restructuring proposal, the license agreement that you just executed with an insolvent corporation is problematic:
a) Execution date? Unknown
b) Public notice to creditors? No
c) Public auction with price competition? No
d) Arms-length transaction? Unknown
e) Valuable consideration? Unknown
If you had approached this restructuring as a stalking horse bid in a §363 asset sale, these issues would have been transparent and the transaction would have been cleaner.
Because of the inability to assess whether the license transfer was in the best interest of creditors, you may have unintentionally motivated some creditors to file an involuntary bankruptcy petition just to unwind the transaction.
As you probably know, the requirements for an involuntary petition can be easily met here:
1) Filing fee: $335
2) Petitioning creditors: 3
3) Aggregate amount of claims: $15,325
4) Is the debtor generally not paying its debts as they become due? Yes (*)
(*) John Popadiuk, May 22nd letter: "As a result of the foregoing, Zidware is facing difficulty in generating sufficient cash flow to meet its obligations as they become due. Zidware concluded that it had to have help to take the designs that had been created and get them into production or the Company would be forced to pursue a Chapter 7 bankruptcy liquidation."
So if you wish to keep Zidware and its assets out of bankruptcy, to minimize delays/costs and maximize operational flexibility, you should disclose the transaction date, consideration paid, and key terms and conditions of your license agreement with Zidware.
As you undoubtedly know, transparency is very important in distressed transactions, and this one is no exception, especially given the toxic atmosphere amongst the Zidware creditor base here on Pinside.
Alternatively, you could recast the proposal as a stalking horse bid for the assets. Frankly, that's the best way to guarantee clean transfer of title free and clear of all liens and encumbrances.

This is well said. Bring on the real numbers and then a real plan.

The new license holder has no idea of what it takes to manufacture pinball machines. And yes, I do.

#10287 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Then this morning he changed his tune and now it's back to ME - according to him I am the ONLY person who wants a refund instead of the new deal. Am I in the twilight zone?
Can I really be the only single entity who won't go along?!?!

No, I want out too. Bill, PM me and I will give you my phone number so that I can confirm this in person.

#10289 4 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

I can't believe how much time and effort some of you have spent in this thread. If you were getting paid by the hour you guys would have enough cash to refund everyone! Fire up the grill, pop open a beverage and thank a veteran… do something worthwhile this weekend.

I've got time to do both. Neither are all that difficult or time consuming.

13
#10308 4 years ago
Quoted from PINTASIA:

Pintasia will be unveiling a Magic girl prototype at a show in June 2015. Not JPOP. We are making arrangements for our people to fly to Chicago to drive the machine to the show of choice with care. We will make the announcements as soon as details are confirmed. Here is the artwork for the banner we are getting made for the show. Look forward to meeting you all at the show!

mg_bannerSMALL (2).jpg (Click image to enlarge)

A poster! Now we're getting somewhere! LOL.

10
#10311 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

once production begins, the design chapter closes and a new nightmare begins ...called manufacturing.

And that manufacturing chapter is 4 times harder than the prototype chapter. Showing a working prototype isn't proof of a single production game ever being made. Far from it.

If Stern takes this on it could kill them. At the very least it would be a black eye when it eventually ends in failure.

I want no part of this mess. I want my money back for RAZA. Let me know when to expect my check.

#10383 4 years ago

Anyone who wants my spot ($6500 paid toward a RAZA) can have it for 75% of that. Please PM me if you are interested.

I want out. Completely out.

#10431 4 years ago

Is there a lawyer that is spearheading a law suit? I believe there is and it was posted somewhere in this lllooonnnggg thread. If anyone knows who it is please post it again please so that I can call them on Tuesday. I will report back here the results.

16
#10548 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

I'm totally with you in your views. Details are:
Zane D. Smith & Associates, Ltd.
415 North LaSalle Street, Suite 501
Chicago, IL 60654
(312) 245-0031
(312) 245-0022 Fax
lydia@zanesmith.com
I'll be contacting the attorney again on Tuesday to take this forward. Zidware is toast, regardless of what we've been corn-fed this weekend. Jpop/Zidware will inevitably be rendered bankrupt, and hence this project is DEAD. When I s/w the legal assistant @ Zane D. Smith on Friday, they said they'd had many phone enquiries since Jpop's bizarre and incompetent email/new agreement, so there are many lawsuits pending. And the IRS are probably auditing too. So as I said a day ago, time to wake up and smell the coffee. I know it's painful

I will be contacting them on Tuesday as well. This behavior will not stand. My fight is with John. Pintasia isn't covering Zidware's liabilities, so there is really no point in contacting them. They are not going to give me my money back. I want my money back. I'll sue him and get it, or I won't. Either way he is getting sued.

#10582 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

That's a bit of a scapegoat. Each individual is obligated to do their own due diligence before handing over money regardless of what others are saying about a fancy new product that will change the world.

It changed the (pinball) world alright. Not in a good way though, unfortunately.

#10688 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

So I'm asking everyone to file the complaint
https://ccformsubmission.ilattorneygeneral.net/

I will be doing this on Tuesday.

#10694 4 years ago

John has designed a game that, as it stands, is impossble to manufacture.

I believe John was looking at Partec to assemble his games. We'll see if Pintasia goes the same route. Although Partec has never assembled a full pinball machine, they did make the majority of the Data East assemblies back in the day. They still assemble all the Raw Thrills games, among other things.

Although Bill (of Partec) knows his stuff, he has never assembled a monster such as Magic Girl.

#10709 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

Wait. When I met with John about helping with electronics and programming, my first question was, "You're working with Ben Heck, what do you need me for?" He told me that you were way too busy with your show and project that your involvement was spotty. Are you telling me he lied to me???
Also he said that you tweet everything you see and he couldn't allow that.

John is spotty. Lol.

#10716 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

A reasoned plan like Bill's might, and that is worth supporting IMO.

It all depends on what your definition of support is. If is means sending more money before games are delivered then he won't get my support.

#10720 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

So fast forward 2 years, you're talking about competing with JJP after they have 3 or 4 games under their belts....

Lolwut?
Sorry man, couldn't resist.

#10799 4 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

Huh. So he's NOT working 14/7 or whatever he claimed...

I've seen John at 2 in the afternoon and he looks like he just got out of bed, but then again he pretty much always looks like that.

#10800 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Which doesn't even make sense because platinum is just barely harder than silver and less hard than a tooth.
Source: http://www.larsonjewelers.com/Images/metal-comparison-chart.jpg

For what it's worth, John calls it titanium plate.

#10805 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Anyone else notice the Magic Girl cab is on a rug?
Rug Reveal and "Labowski" is where I stopped caring about John. The misspelling indicated he had no clue what that license was about and thought people just wanted games on rugs and bowling (Pussycat Bowling anyone?)

I've never thought about that! Wow, he really is oblivious to what the rug reveal and the Lubowski effect really means. Amazing.

As for not being at work today; not as big of deal as the story the pictures of his place tell. Looks like no work has been done for 2 years! Maybe 14/7 means 14 minutes out of 7 months?

#10810 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

He just doesn't have the time to be on pinside dealing with this thread

Yeah, this thread shouldn't really be of any concern to him.

Good grief, Charlie Brown.

#10822 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Well, I didn't mean to be speaking for him or put words into his mouth. Obviously he's posted in this thread recently.
My intention was just to make clear that the secrecy of the old ways is over and people should post the pics here if they aren't here.

Understood. My eye rolling was not meant for you.

#10884 4 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

Just out of morbid curiosity I hope a working prototype gets displayed at the show. Then we can all finally see whatever it was that kept people believing the hype after touring JPOP's shop.

If the first idea to a finished production run is a 10 mile road, then a fully functioning prototype is one mile down said road. Those in the business of actually producing things know this. Please don't be fooled by some flippers flipping and some half baked toys and ramps interacting with the ball. This said machine is only half a mile down the 10 mile road.

#10905 4 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

I'm the last person that would be fooled by a flipping prototype with zero code and probably almost no dots. I just want to see the hardware in action.

Good to hear!

#10913 4 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

I'm no different than anyone else, I want to see what he's built up to this point.

I understand. Everyone involved needs to realize that a fully functioning prototype such as this is still millions of dollars and years away from completion. Even this is a best case senario. Failure is much more likely. This is nothing against the new owners of the license, it's just reality. Remember, this is, and will always be, a crowd funded project, unless the current structure of the agreement with Zidware and Pintasia is drastically altered. Heck, thrown out and rewritten would actually be the only way. The contract between Pintasia and the Zidware customers would have to be thrown out as well. No need to rewrite it. Just throw it out.

Steep odds. Very steep.

#10944 4 years ago
Quoted from jarjarisgod:

What a difference some elbow grease and transparency can make. There's a long road ahead, but it seems like more has been accomplished in the last couple days than the last couple years.

The only transparent things so far is the ramps.
More accomplished in a couple of days than in a couple of years? Come on. For all the failure of Jpop, let's not go that far.

24
#10948 4 years ago

Before we all get wrapped up in any new shiny things that are going on this game over the next couple of weeks, let's remember exactly where the *business* end of this is at.

RAZA owners who do not want a MG, or a MG Pro are still left 99% out in the cold; no game, no refund. OK, MAYBE a game in 4 or more years according to the contract Pintasia wants us to sign. Another phrase for *maybe* in a contract is *if we feel like it, but we certainly never have to*. Also, let's remember if we do sign the contract on this thin hope of a RAZA we also are signing the rider that states we can not sue Zidware.

Pintasia is not covering any of the Zidware liabilities. Zidware will therefore be sued by any RAZA owner who is hoping to recover even $10 of their loss. There are a considerable number of us and we are not happy.

I'm all for getting MG made, but not at the expense of RAZA owners. Remember, our payments funded MG to this point. We have a lot of skin in the game. Again, remember, many of us do not want any form of a MG. It's not what we signed up for. Still, the fact remains (super clear shiny ramps or not), we are out in the cold.

All this leads back to Zidware getting sued.

#10955 4 years ago
Quoted from CoinTaker:

What thread has the record for most posts in a weekend?

Without looking, this one.

12
#11010 4 years ago
Quoted from tjmac55:

make current owners whole and I think you will sell a lot of MGs (not at 16k of course).

Bill (Pintasia) is not making RAZA owners *whole*, and we are the majority *shareholders* in the Zidware mess.

I will be calling my attorney today.

13
#11013 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptK:

I think you have a valid point. With that being said, somewhere back in the comments, I think it was Ice who said the WC guy was putting in $1,000,000 of his own money to get the machines produced. I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed by WC/Pintasia, though. Hopefully, I'm remembering this correctly?

Oh, Ice has seen the books? He's seen an actual plan for manufacturing written down? I didn't know that. Please Pintasia, share this information will all of us. Talk is cheap, real cheap. As a matter of fact, it's free; not worth $1,000,000.

So far past unpaid Zidware vendors have been left holding the bag, along with us RAZA owners. Zidware is still 100% on the hook for this. Pintasia is not picking up any of the bad debt, but they are benefiting from all the work Zidware has done so far on MG using RAZA money. A couple shiny ramps get shown and suddenly everyone forgets about this?

#11020 4 years ago
Quoted from taz:

See posts 10956 and 10981 on the previous page, they offer a little more information and suggest that more is coming soon.

These suggestions are not in the contract.

#11023 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

well there was an option at some point that if buyers wanted to build their own with John and Ben (ha!) they could for an extra $1k. Maybe buyers can pay $1k less to build their own, on their own? Of course $15k for a pinball kit seems very unappealing.
There's also the option of finding a contract manufacturer (they build various products all the time). Of course something as complicated as a pinball machine, you'd have to hire a guy to effectively help setup the assembly line, and then show workers at each stage how to assemble. We aren't talking about stuffing pcb's here.

As I mentioned some pages back, Partec is the likely suspect here when it comes to assembly.

#11029 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

I Must have missed that. Looks like a pretty applicable place, they seem to already do wiring harnesses. If the cabinet company can pre-apply decals, that's done. The hardest part is the playfield, and I can imagine a contract manufacturer being able to handle that as well (but would need a really clear layout of where all the parts go, and possibly in multiple layers).
http://www.partec-inc.com/cableharness.htm

Partec assembles all the Raw Thrills games.

#11030 4 years ago

I know John was talking to Partec about assembly. That was who he was referring to when he would speak of having *a manufacturing facility all ready to go* to assemble his machines.

Obviously that didn't happen, but I would put that more on John than Partec

#11037 4 years ago
Quoted from shakethatmachine:

I know John was talking to Partec about assembly. That was who he was referring to when he would speak of having *a manufacturing facility all ready to go* to assemble his machines.
Obviously that didn't happen, but I would put that more on John than Partec

I don't think the Partec deal was a *fail*, it was simply a no-go. I'm pretty sure John owes them no money as no assembly ever took place (or precious little). Even if he does owe them a bit of money, that could easily be cleared up, I would think.

#12302 4 years ago

Ugh, this thread......

#12303 4 years ago

Bill, please follow up with me about taking a serious look at this game with industry professionals. After talking to me on the phone last Tuesday you said you would follow up with me via email but you have not. I know you have a lot on your plate, but this project deserves the prospective it deserves before moving forward.

1 week later
#13557 4 years ago

No functioning ramps. I'm not seeing the "it's beautiful" thing, but maybe you got to be there. Art could have been great, but John's art direction made it cluttered.

-1
#13761 4 years ago

It's not Yeti's fault, but the art is kind of a jumbled mess, IMHO. Perhaps it looks better in person? John's art direction (too complex, to many ideas jammed into small places, too much purple, etc) diminished what could have been great.

In a perfect no-strings-attached world I would love to see this game made. Too bad that's not the world we live in. The history of this game is littered with too many negatives for it to ever see the light of day.

The road to the finish line is long, steep, and full of landmines.

The challenge of doing the impossible will turn from fun to misery long before the end of this odessy is reached.

#14049 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I wonder if there is one person who up voted Greg on that post that actually has a dime at stake.

Yes I do have money invested, and I agree with Greg.

#14050 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I meant to quote Yeti separately
Good luck to everybody
It's time to close this thread down, there is nothing positive left.
Please close it down mods, thanks

Close down the most awesome thread ever?

Hmm.... that would get me back to RGP. No wonder it's starting to pick up over the again.

10
#14239 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I think it's in FAR FAR better hands with the folks here that are volunteering their time..

A $16,000 game being built by volunteers, now THAT'S funny.

#14240 4 years ago

The flipper assemblies are standard, BTW.

#14733 4 years ago

That's OK, as long as John is left with nothing. That would still put him ahead of me, I'm negative $6500.

11 months later
#18879 3 years ago

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