(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..

By iceman44

5 years ago

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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (2 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (2 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (2 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (2 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (2 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (2 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)

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#66 5 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

Heaven forbid pinheads get the chance to see some things that he is working on. I personally think that is the wrong approach to take now days but to each their own. TOTAN was the biggest reason I got addicted to pinball. I love Jpop's work and am not hating just don't care for all of the hiding going on with his newest works in progress.

Since you're a moderator, maybe you should close this thread as those who know anything about the project aren't allowed to say anything. Therefore nothing posted here will be an update & everything posted in this thread is off-topic which is a violation of Pinside rules. If someone does actually post on topic, they'll be violating Jpop's rules and subject to the wrath of his crack legal team. I'm only momentarily violating Pinside rules to point out that this thread is a trap for anyone posting anything about anything. Takin' one for the team, cuz I loves yous guys!

#68 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Maybe with total control now the rules will be better than Bally/Williams days?!

Who's programming?

That would be an update.

#72 5 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

What did iceman44 do to earn a thumbs down on every single post?

See previous RAZA thread. He started this thread due to being banished from the other one... and there are no actual updates in this thread. Thumbs down for being off-topic in his own thread.

#96 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Whatever, I don't care. Back to Jpop discussion, good bad and ugly. Not about me

It's all about you....you started it because you were banned from the other thread. There are no updates in this thread yet....just more insults.

When is Magic Girl shipping?

#98 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm no longer "banned"…..move on pal……..get over yourself, nothing to see or report here for you, let it go
I know when MG is shipping but can't say because of you….

That's not very nice...holding back updates in the update thread that you started to share updates.

#103 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

only one guy that obviously has some kind of constant thumbs down hatred complex, I don't know?

I'll make you a deal. Post an actual update & remove all of the insults ...I will remove every thumbs-down.

#136 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

No need to clutter up here, we get it

Irony. You started this thread and haven't discussed anything resembling an update. You should change the name to "JPOP excitement thread" or something....that would solve the issue of this now being a 3 page off-topic thread.

Quoted from iceman44:

At least this site has one garbage free thread in the Woz owners thread. What a breath of fresh air!

WOZ exists.

1 month later
#168 5 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

It never even occurred to me that it would take this long. I was thinking maybe 6 months after the payment schedule was completed (the original timeline) games would be shipping. That was 2 years ago...
Here we are 3 years later...

So now that it's 3 years later - does anyone know who's animating for the LCD, programming, doing the music/sound?

4 weeks later
#204 5 years ago
Quoted from cyber:

There are rumors that it's going to be more than 21 games.

How about just 1, to start?

1 week later
#241 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Wow, 21 people put $17k three years ago and he just increased it to 60 games!!!!
That sucks, still will be unobtainum but sucks for the initial 21

WAAAAH! Poor them! WAAAAH!

#250 5 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

I know this is a big waiting game, but I also know that John is a perfectionist and keeps tweaking things that the average person would think is already awesome. On the bright side, I also think (not sure) that the code should be upgradeable easily, so refinements can be made after shipping.) Otherwise, it might *never* ship! )

Holy moly, 10 years later you finally get the game and the code's not done!?!? LOL

#256 5 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

60 Magic Girls ain't shit. Come on now.
JPop should produce far more than that. Even if there needed to be some exclusivity with this pin you could have that with 500 made. They should cost 12K with partial refunds of course to those that paid more. To the original buyers bitching about more games being produced they should definitely be rewarded with something special added on top of the rest of the machines, like a rare alternate translite and cabinet art.
Zombie Adventureland needs to get bumped up too. Make that a cool 1000 units.

We don't even know if this guy can build 1 completed unit and you want him to make 500 or 1000!?!?!

#264 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

We didn't know if Bill Gates could create Microsoft out of his garage after dropping out of college.
We didn't know that Steve Jobs would have created the highest value company in the history of the world after his previous failures.
I think Jpop can build whatever amount of pins he has in mind. Just saying.
Some people have vision, others don't…...

There's a difference between designing and building.

I have no doubt Jpop can design a game.

Can he build one? Then mass produce?

1 month later
#462 5 years ago

Jpop's been spending all your pre-order money on orange hair dye.

#474 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Ditto, Thanks Frolic!! Sometimes it seems like John thinks all these delays are a non issue for the owners. Perfection can never be achieved (not even if your JPOP) sometimes compromises are made or nothing ever gets finished.

Jpop reminds me of animator Richard Williams. For those who don't know who he is, he's a master animator & started making his opus in the 60's - a movie called The Thief and the Cobbler. He'd noodle and noodle...animate scenes and throw them out...absolute perfectionist but no one to manage and guide the project. He worked on the movie for THIRTY YEARS!!!! He took a break to direct the animation for Roger Rabbit (which was beautiful AND done on schedule) After that achievement, Miramax agreed to fund & distribute Thief...but he STILL couldn't finish it - they eventually took the movie away from him, finished it & released it. There's a great documentary called "Persistence of Vision" about him & the movie. Here's one clip but there's tons of stuff about him on Youtube.

#567 5 years ago

Lawsuit time.

#654 5 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

No, I wish. But I'm just as disappointed as you all are. The white wood should have been shown at the expo at the very least.

Has he even MADE a whitewood? Not a foamcore playfield, or a playfield with various things mocked up on it....but a flippable whitewood? I'm guessing he hasn't, which means he doesn't even know how to properly design a pinball machine. He seems to be just obsessed with the art. Art is meaningless if you don't even know how your game is going to physically play!

#659 5 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

There is a WW for MG that showed sighs of lots plays, pf dimpling used rubbers
Three prototypes are near complete too

Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Yes there is also a RAZA whitewood

...but a FLIPPABLE whitewood? With all the ramps, mechs, toys, some rudimentary code?

#662 5 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Maybe you should have taken the tour

I would probably have been murdered on sight lol

...and maybe you can just answer my question.

#669 5 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Two years you've been a negative nancy for no good reason but to be a dick.

Looking at what's blowing up right now, I think it's clear that I was being a Logical Lancy! I saw the writing on the wall early on. If you can't answer a simple question - "is there a flippable whitewood?" - and instead take that time to call me a dick, then I'm just going to assume there isn't a flippable whitewood.

It was nice seeing you at Expo BTW

#696 5 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Are you guys sure he's out of money and needed to sell the extra 25 spots to raise cash? If you are then you do have cause to be concerned. I do think the first step is to collectively reach out to him and just find out what is the hold up...

Sometimes you gotta spend money to make money. Just imagine if he put RAZA & AIW aside for a moment...laserfocused on MG, the original project. Just. Finished. It. I have to imagine that would instantly boost confidence for current owners and possibly bring in new ones. Lack of a flippable game at this point is the ultimate roadblock - it's frustrating buyers and turning away new ones.

I know this is all in retrospect, but I wish Jpop would have collaborated with Spooky as a designer or art director for a project or two. Even if it wouldn't be a "true Jpop opus", you know you'd end up with a finished game with amazing art. Sell a couple of those to get yourself in a groove...THEN unleash the Jpop ultimate pin. It's clear that his B/W games were fantastic because he was collaborating with other people's strengths - management, engineering, art, programming, music. He is best suited matching his strengths with others.

#953 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I disagree with JPOP's take on the Lewbowski Effect or perhaps I don't fully understand his interpretation. To me the Lewbowski Effect in this context means, under promise and over deliver. Ain't nothing new but that's what Dutch Pinball showed me.
But whatever. I spoke with John and he is really motivated by all of this. The December reveal will be a pivotal moment.

To me the Lebowski effect is:

-Show a game and let people play it, that gets people more excited than pictures of art of empty cabinets. Showing a game and letting people play it will get you more customer confidence and pre-orders.

By creating the insular secret club cult bubble to "reward" pre-buyers, he made himself look bad & alienated the rest of the pinball community - and we are POSSIBLE buyers.

#957 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Let's get real here Greg. Nobody every stays "alienated".

Right, I'm just talking about the current moment in time & how it relates to Lebowski. Jpop created a bubble...even some of those in the bubble were getting antsy & wanted to sell their spots. If those in the bubble know very little...how would one expect anyone outside the bubble to pony up the dough for one of these things? That is the Lebowski effect. Transparency & showing a flippable game = chilled out pre-buyers & more sales.

#959 5 years ago
Quoted from dmesserly:

My comment still stands for anyone who thinks ajpop owes them any info if they aren't a customer. Right or wrong, it's the way he chooses to run his business.

That's fine, but you have to understand that he's not going to attract new customers that way (or people to "buy out" a pre-order when someone wants a refund.) That's "The Lebowski effect" vs. "the Jpop effect"

#966 5 years ago
Quoted from dmesserly:

Sure. I understand that. I hope he does as well. I don't really care what anyone says here about his business. That's their opinion. What annoys me is people's sarcastic attitudes that John owes anyone outside his customers.

We're all potential customers.

#968 5 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Nah, he was fishing for it, hoping to get it. Lost the battle to Stern.

Do we know this for a fact? Stern doing Kiss is just a rumor at this point.

#981 5 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Jpop told me in person Stern came in half way through and scooped it on him. Its Gene Simmons...its all about the money not the art or game play!

Who knows...maybe Stern had already been trying to get it for years - after all, Stern music games ARE a thing.....maybe Kiss looked at these two pinball companies and said "one has a factory and just made thousands of Metallica & AC/DCs and the other one is just some guy who's made nothing"...

2 weeks later
#1107 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

The only thing ur going to see is two more Christmas seasons go by before u get ur game

You're such an optimist!

1 week later
#1182 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

The saddest thing about all this, is I'm so over it. There is no fun left.

I think a lot of us got that feeling for WOZ. I dropped out relatively early, too - I can't imagine what it was like for those still waiting for their games to the bitter end - especially LE buyers who saw Standars shipping first and the Ruby Red reveal. The only pre-orders I'm on right now are MMr and BOP 2.0, and those have had their delays...but at least I know they're right around the corner. European customers are getting their BOP 2.0s & I've played MMr and have seen it at Stern.

It'll be interesting to see Jpop's "Lebowski-esque" reveal...perhaps the true make it or break it point for you guys with money on his projects.

EDIT: I forgot I also have Lebowski pre-ordered....thanks Aurich for catching me in a senile moment lol

#1186 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

So a reveal of a working but not completed code mg in December will pump people up... Still a long way to go and a lot of money to build them... Plus raza will get shelved while he over sees mg builds... Raza is so down the road it's sad...

Well as far as I can tell, all he has is art and gadgets. If he can actually show that he's capable of a game that flips the ball...that would go a long way. Sure, the game's still probably 10 years from completion, but I think that would calm the secret club at least.

#1289 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

I have found it odd how many people that don't have any money invested in this have so much pent up to say about it. If you aren't a buyer I just don't understand how you could have any more than a passing curiosity.

1.) We are all potential customers. I love CV, TOM, WCS'94, TOTAN....I'd love to see Jpop actually make new games. No f*cking way I'm going to give him a cent right now...but despite my skepticism, I want to see him succeed.

2.) We're all pinball friends here - we have empathy for those who do have money in on these games and don't want to see them lose their cash.

Quoted from roc-noc:

A lynch mob mentality here will only harm Jpop's progress

Please, don't blame the "victims". We're harming Jpop's progress? HAH! The burden of his business and how he runs it is solely on him. We didn't take anyone's money. We didn't say we're making 3 games. We didn't make promises and then break them. That's on him. Customers and potential customers have every right to critique the situation.

1 week later
#1400 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

What people don't want here is to pay the premium for a 17 game run and end up selling at a much higher game run price. Why do you think RAZA and MG were different prices? They won't have a BOM difference. They have a production run difference. That rarity is valued at something.

50 games is still rare as F. I don't think that number will devalue MG if it ever gets made.

#1403 5 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

50 is a lot more than 17 and will devalue it.

Doubt it. 50 for the entire planet is nothing. There are 200 BBBs that sold for $4500 NIB and are now sold for $30k NIB. MG will be fine. I'd be more concerned about it ever being built period than it's future profitability.

#1406 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

But in all seriousness people got on at 17k cause of the rarity and opportunity for a investment as well... That has to be part of their thinking on that purchase even if they don't admit it

Oh, absolutely - but I said this from day 1 - the economics of this project never made sense. The amount of R&D, time and money that go into a full commercial game is done so because that game is expected to then move 1000's of units. To put those efforts into a run of 17? Pure insanity. Even just 50 is pure insanity! ...but, it is what it is that this point.

#1416 5 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

I'm sick of people still saying "if" these machines are produced.

Why? None have been produced. It's been years. So - it's a HUGE "if".

Quoted from Strange:

These games are coming and we need to give our full support to John so he can get Zidware situated properly and continue to do what he does for the next couple of decades at least.

"We" don't have to blindly give anyone support who takes money for 3 titles yet hasn't mass produced one pinball machine. Him getting Zidware situated properly is on him & his business plan. It's not up to "us". John only shares info privately...that's the business plan he chose. Therefore, it's perfectly fair game for anyone on the "outside" to call it as we see it.

Quoted from Strange:

He's the only person in the modern pinball environment that has my full trust of pumping out masterpieces.

You're the perfect guy to give him money then. Good luck!

Quoted from Strange:

I'm sure in creating a new pinball company the first game is always going to be the hardest, and we are still getting there~

A huge part of a pinball company is a realistic business plan & a factory. Jpop has neither. He's an artist/designer and has approached this project as such. So - until there's a public reveal and/or someone gets a finished, fully functioning Magic Girl - I will continue to say "if".

Quoted from kaneda:

But it's definitely coming out.

"Definitely" is a word you cannot use with this project. Purely speculation and crossed fingers.

#1418 5 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

I believe Taylor Swift said it best when she said:
"'Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play
And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate"

LOL...I love Pinside. Logic and a rational assessment of situations = "hater". Life and reality isn't as simplistic as a Taylor Swift song.

#1441 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

I am very close...
Going to party in NY to play again. Its more about the pre order and wait thing. I just dont think I am that kind of guy.
Anything over 7k needs to be done and blowing my balls off or I think I will wait it out.

If it wasn't my dream theme I'd prob bail too, due to pre-order fatigue. I'm going to stick with it though, purely because it's Lebowski, I'm in on the original price, and I get the chrome & rug.

#1463 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It's pretty quiet on the Jpop front which I think is a great sign!

Yeah? Maybe he's fled the country? lol

#1502 5 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

John didn't pay his invoices. How's that vague?

Yikes, these games are never getting built. Sorry guys...saw this coming years ago.

#1529 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

John's been in the pinball industry over 30 yrs, what's your point?

He has? He was a designer at B/W in the 90s...not even 10 years.

Quoted from iceman44:

If it all goes to shit, you get credit for calling it first Greg, congrats!

I don't want to be congratulated...I want Jpop to make your games! However unless he bites the bullet and makes some major changes to his manufacturing plan, I fail to see how that's ever going to happen...just being realistic. The only way I think these will ever get made is if he "sells the designs" or subcontracts the build to someone like Stern, JJP, or even Spooky....someone who can actually "get it done". ...and then gives the option to mass produce & sell more than originally allotted to recoup the costs of these projects going overbudget and overdue. Yes, this would hurt his pride and piss off anyone who invested in the project....but - it might be the only way you see games built. Even with the financial situation aside - If Spooky's building 2 games a week with their small operation - imagine how long it'll take Jpop to build his games with his level of perfectionism. 2 games a month? Who knows...this shit's just gonna take forever if he can even afford to get the parts to build them. It'll hurt his pride, but he's gonna have to "sell out". If that happens - maybe the original buyers can still get something special and unique that makes their games more valuable. An extra feature, unique art, I dunno...something.

Anyway....good luck, guys.

#1540 5 years ago
Quoted from coasterguy:

Wow! I just read through this. It would seem JPop would be wise to chime in here once in a while to clear the air of things and make his customers feel better about things. I truly hope it all works out for you and all and JPop.

He's too fragile. Plus, he's got the private blog for the customers.

#1574 5 years ago

It's taking so long, the patents are probably all public domain by now!

#1613 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

I had heard of people sending in money for AIW, but I didn't realize that it was far enough along to have a development blog. I asked John three times to send me the AIW package so I could review it, but I never received it.

If John ever licenses a theme for a game, it should be "The Neverending Story".

#1620 5 years ago
Quoted from Redeyes:

Noone in this forum has ever pissed me off but DO you ever shut your *mouth* dude?

Not sure what you're talking about...I have not taught your mom how to post on Pinside .

#1747 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

There lies your dilemma. Once the public sees the MG and RAZA artwork and finds out about the AIW preorder, I do see that list filling up quickly. That preorder is still not widely known, so there is a chance to get on the list right now. End of this month, I doubt there will be a chance.

Lets see if even 1 game gets finished before the end of the decade. This small run thing is absolutely unsustainable.

#1750 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Off topic, but what happened exactly with TBL?

U serious?

Check the thread.

#1809 5 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Let's say that MG turns out to be simply unbelievable and people are lining up to get one...
John's going to say "No"? Like he doesn't need more cash? At the very least, more cash could afford him to hire someone else to do some of the real work, while he does what he wants in "artistic inventor-world".

Cash, schmash...there's still no manufacturing plan. He can sell all the games he wants, but if he's building them with some guys and churning out 1 a week...this saga will still be all drama years from now.

#1936 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Freshie:

He is asking for money, for AIW. Got my package the other day requesting another 2g.



No matter what you do, you'll always look back in retrospect and say "oh, I should have done this and that and the other thing"...but that's YOU, think of your BUYERS ...but I'm sure whatever the first version you dreamt up 3 years ago would have made all the buyers happy as clams. Just commit to what you've got and build it! No good can come of noodling around any longer. Get out of your head & have some empathy for your customers!

#1944 5 years ago

Watch this trailer and replace "Richard Williams" with "Jpop" and "animation" with "pinball"

#1947 5 years ago

Just some more awesome animation from Richard Williams unfinished "masterpiece" ...this is just scary sick stuff. We're clearly all art fans here if we're paying attention to Jpop, so I think you guys would appreciate it. Keep in mind this film started productionin 1964...all completely hand drawn, hand painted...there are techniques here that you'd swear were computer animated, but nope...all hand animated from the 60's thru the 80's!!! He worked on this thing for 25 years and never was able to finish it!!! It was eventually taken away from him and finished...turned it into a total piece of crap. Some of his fans have been "recobbling it" to its original vision for a while now.

#2141 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

DISCLAIMER: I have already written off the money I sent to Jpop for RAZA.
Out of principle alone, I'm pretty much done. Frankly, I'm wavering between two ends of the spectrum. On the one hand, drain this topic and forget about this "investment" for a couple years, only to come back in 2016 to see if things have progressed at all. Or saying F' it and round up people to "get our money back," whatever that means.

Dude don't give up like that...it's your fucking money - he's flaking on his end of the deal. You're entitled to your money back or some answers...end of story. NO ONE should be all "oh ho hum, I guess my money is gone" ...remember - the customer is always right!!!!

#2150 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Agreed, but at this point I would assume it would take litigation to get our money back. If that's the case, we might pay out almost as much as we have in to get whatever scraps Jpop has left. Even so, I feel like he's already cast us down, so why the hell not bring him down with us?

You're in IL...just fucking camp out on his front door till he gives you back what's yours

#2203 5 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Show of hands....who here is actually in on a MG?

You mean your fiancé ? That Magic Girl had quite a vanishing act! OHHH!!!

#2207 5 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

I traded up Rare...

bd.jpg 26 KB

That's trading up? Ok. Lol.

Does your new girl know you're posting her pics on some nerdy forum for other guys to critique ? Kind of a superficial & douchey move. No one cares about who you're dating.

#2209 5 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Did you miss all of his posts stirring the pot? I simply called him out for being ultra negative and it's pointless causes even if the game did ship, he can't afford one. Am i wrong? If so, I'll apologize.

You are wrong. Aurich is the most level headed dude on the planet and is always constructive in his criticism. You don't know what's in his bank account and it's irrelevant to his assessment of the situation. "You can't afford it" is a 3rd graders logic. It's irrelevant and serves no purpose than to show your own superficiality. To you, only those with a certain bank balance can have an opinion? You really want to get into that kind of dick swinging contest around here ?

#2215 5 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

You see now's the part where I once again ask you to share a photo of you, who you're dating/shagging and then you do what you always do and run away.

Choosing not to engage with a lunatic is not running away. I'm not in a competition with you and I'm not going to stoop to your level of superficiality. Just as your stories and pictures about your personal life are irrelevant, so are mine. However you keep infesting Pinside with your douchebaggery, and as long as that continues I'll rag on you because it's fun...since you bring nothing to the table here, might as well use you for entertainment.

#2219 5 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Well then I look forward to having lots of fun with you. But without your photo, how will I hug you at Expo?

You're so lazy. I'm not gonna do your work for you.

#2401 5 years ago

That's for the big reveal, Adobe!

Stuff definitely looks cool and you can see the passion there...if this type of thing wasn't hidden over the years, buyers and non-buyers alike probably would chill out a bit.

Still don't see the economics working in favor of them getting built....but at least it's a pretty carrot to dangle!

#2557 5 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

... The Real Pinball Wizard...

Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain

2 weeks later
#2891 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Man I used to give other people like Rarehero so much crap for saying games get delivered by 2018 or 2020, whatever it was.

Hey, at least we'll be enjoying our Road Shows with ColorDMD soon!

#2927 5 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

There are going to be 2-5x as many MG's as Kingpins, and that value took many years to achieve. Is there a confirmed sale at $35k? Highest I've seen was closer to $30k.

I know a dude who spent like $60k on one. All it takes is one maniac.

#3044 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Who would have possibly imagined that three years later he still wouldn't have produced even a single game?


1 week later
#3564 4 years ago
Quoted from aingide:

Wait, why is Godzilla on the PF??
Apologies in advance as I haven't read through the whole thread, but I didn't know that this turned into a sci-fi greatest hits with Godzilla, Robby the Robot and the Mars Attacks alien. They seem like expensive licenses to secure if the characters aren't even used in the title...

He changed Mars Attacks Alien's eyes to Deadpool's....so now it's an original creation!

1 week later
#3778 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

If you're an industry vet you can get away with unlicensed (Jpop, Pat Lawlor) or if you're unproven with a license you'll also do OK (Skit-B, Dutch)
It's kind of like dating. If you're tall and rich, you're golden. If you're one or the other you'll do OK. If you're neither... good luck!

I think unproven & unlicensed can work if all these elements come together:

1- Excellent art package (comparable to the favorite B/W games)
2- Excellent audio package (catchy music & experienced voice-over actors)
3- A really cool toy or feature that's compelling, unique, and looks fun to interact with
4- "Reasonable" price

IMO, AMH is missing 1 & 2, and WOOLY is missing 2,3 & 4. If a boutique can nail 1-4, I think they could have excellent sales of an original title.

#3780 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

AMH has really nice dots from what I have seen while playing and watching other play.

Dots are nice - I'm talking about playfield/cab/backglass. Amh is just OK in the art department. I believe it would have sold better if the art was better than OK.

#3796 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Yeah I agreed with your post just wanted to give credit where due.

I'll give AMH tons of credit! It's a finished game made my a few dudes and it's shipping! It's fun to play, too! However for a customer to drop $6k+ on a game with a theme they have no nostalgia for, it's gotta be firing on another level that makes you go "WHOA!" All I'm saying is that I think original themes can sell well....they just have to have the "it" factor. JUST being original is not enough.

Quoted from frolic:

I'm not sure if AMH qualifies any longer as not a good seller. It is a "sleeper", with 5 month backlog and if the goal was 150 machines, it seems likely they'll get there before they are done.

If that's the goal, then it will be a success. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ben seems to be a bit bummed about the sales so far & thinks that being unlicensed was the main factor.

#3880 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm happy to get any blog update, but my first thought was.... "More empty cabinets!"
I'm haunted by how long other games have taken from seeing PLAYABLE prototypes to production (Predator, WOZ, TBL, MMR), knowing we've never seen a playable game.
Any guesses how long it will take from seeing a playable game to production?
Seems like we have a loooooong ways to go, despite today's update.

Whatever happened to "The Labowski (as Jpop likes to spell it) reveal"? Lebowski went over like gangbusters cuz it was playable. Why won't he show the games actually playing?

#3882 4 years ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

errrr.... cause there's not one ya' think.

That's prob the reason...but - if that's NOT the reason....time to show off so people know it's not just art and foam.

#3891 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Considering rules on his games are generally criticized for being shallow, that isn't good.

I think it's a vocal minority....all of his games are still desirable - if the gameplay wasn't fun and appealing, no one would want TOM, CV, TOTAN....but they still do! I love playing my TOM and CV - I have no problem with the rules at all. They compliment the design perfectly.

3 weeks later
#4142 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Look, you guys know how this is going to go.
At this point, it doesn't even matter.
RAZA isn't going to get a big reveal before the end of the month. Things are delayed, "artwork" is still being worked out, suppliers are behind, etc.
Accept it and hope there is a future.

Argh, don't buckle! Where's that "KICK DOWN HIS F*CKING DOOR" Iceman!?!?!?

None of you deserve this. You've paid a lot of money and DESERVE answers or a refund - PRONTO.

#4383 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

Bottom line is I think he knows he's failing big time at communication but feels if he continues to put his efforts into making the best pinball machine he ever designed that people will forgive him.

Why can't he do both? I really don't understand this fear of communication that Jpop and SkitB have - it literally would take 10 minutes after the workday to sit down at the computer and type up "Hey guys, this is what's going on....blah blah blah"

Quoted from NYP:

I'm also convinced he's totally and completely irrational and paranoid when it comes to showing his master work with new designs and new innovations out of fear of 2 things. That people will steal his ideas, and that people will criticize his game in an unfinished state before they see the completed version.

Just design a game you believe in and built it. People paid for it. Just MAKE IT already. Stop worrying about the "evil forces". People may or may not steal the ideas, and because this is life - people will criticize it. Jpop needs to go to therapy to work out his issues - they are not conducive to this business venture or living a healthy adult life.

#4495 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballmike217:

Pinside is hardly a friendly place anymore.

#4666 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballmike217:

Can you imagine what WOZ would have looked like if JPop had designed it?

No, because it would have never been finished or released.

1 week later
#5049 4 years ago


Seriously - if Jpop or SkitB show their faces at this one...shit could get UGLY.

#5075 4 years ago
Quoted from Shrub_Light:

I'm not taking your comment as dickish, so no worries there. In fact I would normally agree with you about this project failing except I, like others have said, felt this would be the project to succeed due to John's prior experience.

The problem is people not understanding the reality of his experience.

His best games were made as a designer with a full fledged support team, computer hardware, parts, musicians, programmers - and a full fledged manufacturing factory.

Without that infrastructure, he has never proven he was capable of making a pinball machine....post Williams he had Zizzle games and a shitty iPhone app. Plus, the economics of the project never made sense. He took advantage of pinheads throwing money around during "Rare Pinball Fever" (MM, MB, AFM, BBB, TronLE, ACDC BIBLE, etc) without any realistic manufacturing gameplan.

#5095 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Well Greg, how did Ben and Charlie get it done?
In fact, Ben was part of the original game and team. Thanks for bailing out Ben!

I think they were generally more realistic in terms of their game - DMD, no plastic ramps, lots of stock parts, etc. Gave themselves deadlines & stuck to them. They had a flippable whitewood before they got to art. They didn't spend years on art. And...BEN! Ben not just a mad scientist in his head - he's incredibly productive and multi-talented....and he'd already built a few games on his own.

There are probably some more reasons they pulled it off- but those are the ones off the top of my head.

#5133 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

On the latest C2C podcast, there was a reference to John making mention about how beat up he gets on Pinside. Is that the way he sees it? That Pinside is just a bunch of internet haters beating up on him?

He's ultra sensitive and it will be his downfall. He's unable to step back and look at the reality of the situation he's created or have empathy for those who've trusted him.

#5155 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Wonder who's going to give jpop a job in the industry after this mess clears

They wouldn't give him one before the mess. I think he might be the only "B/W days" guy capable of and wanting to make pinball machines that hasn't worked for Stern, JJP, etc. Those guys know what's up. It's the same reason John K. hasn't had another animated show since Ren & Stimpy and Ripping Friends. Everybody loves his art and admires his talent - but everyone knows he's insane & can't work within a budget or schedule.

#5164 4 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Your probably right about the insane part but do you think Stern would let him build what he wants to build? All 4 of his W/B games were insane when it came to the artwork and even the layout. They were wanting in the rules and ToM was unfinished. What I have seen of the artwork and game layout of MG from this thread is fucking incredible. There is no way cheap ass Gary Stern would let him build it. But, maybe it is just because he is nuttier than a squirrel farm

Call Gary Stern "cheap" but he's successfully running a business and MAKING GAMES. He'd probably go out of business if he let Jpop do whatever he wanted. This isn't just arts n crafts for fun....it's commerce and manufacturing. How many games has Stern put out since MG was announced? 10?! I'd rather have 10 games I can actually PLAY than Jpop's loopy daydreams.

In any case, this has nothing to do with Stern. Jpop HAS the freedom to make the game he wants...but he's incapable without the infrastructure of an actual pinball business!

#5337 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I agree and just like Predator, Big Lewboski, or any future drama, the vast majority of noise and vitriol will come from those with nothing invested. It is the state of Pinside.
Proverb: "Empty barrels always make the most noise"

Even if we haven't ordered one of these games, we're ALL invested. When these things become shady and ultimately crash and burn like Predator, it causes a negative ripple effect throughout the whole hobby.

#5372 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

There was a hard lesson learned on Skit B, you can be sure people will be doing their due diligence on Jpop.

It seems as though plenty are trying their hardest -but keep hitting the brick wall known as John Popadiuk.

#5460 4 years ago
Quoted from jarjarisgod:

I don't know. Based on some of the back and forth in the Predator thread, it seems like the obvious needs to be stated from time to time. Not that it will necessarily be heard...

It might not even be a money issue - if he doesn't have the hardware/software thing figured out yet - there's not much else he can do with MG & RAZA...so - he's working on the next one.

#5631 4 years ago
Quoted from examiner:

"bunch of folks?". I'm sorry, I find this funny. Is anybody really on his side at this point?

Buyers are in a bind. Honestly, they SHOULD post pics of everything here...at this point, why not. However, if Jpop cries about it, he might not release any more pictures. So - they're complying with his wishes.

#5788 4 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

That can't be entirely true for every game. For example, there is no way WCS94 started off as a purely generic whitewood. It was clearly designed with soccer in mind from the outset.

Even if you don't have the theme first - you want a whitewood to flip first to makes sure it PLAYS well before you make/order plastics, parts, toys, ramps, etc.

#5878 4 years ago
Quoted from Code_Blue:

only skimming this thread but there's no one left here actually arguing that jpop is ever going to release a real game, right?

PDXMonkey seems to be the only true believer left as far as I can tell.

#5925 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Thank you saying that and understanding.
If you're a Jpop customer and interested in joining the owners group please shoot me a private email. I'll need to verify your Zidware participation and then send you an invite. We have over 40 members now but it would seem not everyone is aware of our groups existence.
One person who does know about our group is Jpop and the significance behind it. Rome wasn't build in a day but shit is happening.

I hope it works out - but Jpop has to realize that his reputation amongst the pinball public is DECIMATED. He needs to do more than appease the private buyers at this point if he wants anyone to take him seriously and purchase his "products" in the future. In fact - forget about the future - right now there are owners who want refunds, but can't get them because no one else will buy the spot. He needs to fix his public reputation for the sake of his private buyers who want out!

#5956 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Pick up your Scoregasm Master in person at MGC - No shipping cost!

April fools day is over, brotha!

#5958 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Day One Pinball's Scoregasm Master is no joke. It's a legit pin-game that you can buy at MGC.

Can you blame me for thinking its an elaborate prank? I'll believe it after MGC.

#5976 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

I've lost $4.75k on Predator, and $20k+ on MG and RAZA. I will never pre-order again! They go very quiet when you ask for a refund...
Shysters. Let's be blunt about what Kevin and John Popadiuk are. Prove me wrong, 'Jpop'. Pop goes the weasel indeed.

I know the private FB owners group is all private and whatnot...but has there been any shred of good news? I feel horrible for guys like this...so much money in limbo - it's probably taking years off people's lives stressing about it!!!

#6084 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'm speculating here, but I thought that the GLM boards in question were the little LED PCBs? Those aren't particularly expensive per, we're not talking about big CPU boards. Unless I'm wrong, that was just the impression I got from comments on a photo.
That, plus the $7k to Cointaker are relatively tame amounts in the grand scheme, so by not paying them you just wonder if he's
a) broke
b) maliciously not paying
c) so incapable of basic business skills that he cannot even handle paying his vendors
Pick one, they all suck.

If I had to guess (cuz that's all I can do), I'm thinking maybe he needed the money to finish more things in order to get the remaining balances from the pre-orders, then he can afford to pay the vendors. Perhaps he thought this would have been done a while ago, and a slight delay wouldn't bother any of them. However, now we're years into it.....multiple burnt bridges and it's become a game of putting out fires.

#6139 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

And Stern wouldn't be interested in making such limited release games as the profit just isn't there.

Whoa Nellie, anyone? The Pin? Stern's been doing a lot of wacky stuff these days (MMr) ...if it keeps the factory busy, you never know - they could be down with it. As long as they get paid! So - someone besides Jpop would have to set up this type of deal.

#6141 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

Stern would need to basically start over from scratch to build the game the "Stern" way. And what would be done for all the parts that were already ordered and to the vendors that haven't been paid? It's just too messy for Stern to get involved with..

Oh, yeah - you're right - I'm sure it would never happen...but I think Chuck's point is that even that unlikely Stern scenario is MORE likely to result in a game being built than the current situation.

#6203 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

You could probably reasonably report it as a theft loss of personal property...but as I recall anyone who makes more than $170,000 would get zero deduction of the 17k game if reported that way. I would recommend each person check with their cpa.
Someone who is a rout operator would seem to be in the best position to deduct the loss here.

Does Jpop see any of this or realize his buyers are talking this way!?!? How can he remain silent?! He's either evil or insane. Jpop, if you're reading this - You must break your silence and address the situation! That is the ONLY thing that can fix this! If you stay quiet, your reputation is forever destroyed....and remember, YOU did it to yourself. No one else.

#6227 4 years ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

How many in this thread are actually buyers?
How many here would actually buy or be able to afford one of these games if/when they came out?
How would him addressing "Pinside", the digital court of pinball universal opinion do any good?

He should be addressing his buyers, first and foremost. The fact that they're looking into legal action is telling. As far as Pinside goes - this is the most popular pinball forum, no? The Internet is forever. Does Jpop want to be forever known as an evil douchelord who stole tons of money and flaked on delivering a game? If not, he's gotta come clean. His actions (inactions?) and silence is destroying him.

#6287 4 years ago

The moderator said:

Quoted from Roostking:

There are proper ways to get restitution like JUST ASKING.

Problem is - Jpop doesn't ANSWER his customers! I don't advocate threatening visits either - but if you had thousands of dollars wrapped up in this project and the guy can't be bothered to respond, what would you do!? If I was local I probably would try to confront him in person...not in a violent way...but just in a "WTF, talk to me!" way.

#6302 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

So you're saying you don't advocate threatening visits but you would if there's thousands of dollars on the line? But now you probably WILL visit him in a non-violent way?

Let me clarify. I'm saying I sympathize with those who feel helpless and want to visit him for answers, as there seems to be no other way to get answers since John doesn't return calls or emails. I never condoned violence.

#6314 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

I wonder if JPOP's wife knows he's effing hundreds of people out of thousands of dollars each?

She'd say "At least SOMEONE's getting F'd!"


#6411 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm just going back to being the amused bystander now.

He's got your money...so you can't be a bystander. You're in it and have the right to talk about it!

#6414 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There's a new rule Greg, you have to clear everything through Kim first.

Jpop is tearing us all apart!!!!!!

#6416 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Btw, speaking of "intoxication", I will be there later tonight
I just arrived at the Master's for the tourney Sat and Sun, gonna have some fun while you guys try and figure out John.

"The Master's"? Who's the Master!?

You in some kind of cult, Ice!?

#6441 4 years ago

Oh, The Masters! Why didn't you say so...

#6710 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Worked for Stern.

Stern has a factory and a track record and an infrastructure and employees.

Jpop has none of these things.

#6744 4 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

Cirqus Voltaire is the greatest pinball ever made. To me its the only obvious Masterpiece when it comes to pinball machines. I only see a Zidware pin having the potential to match it.

CV is a great game - I have one and enjoy it very much - but it was made by Bally/Williams where John was employed as a designer in the 90's.

He may still be a great designer - but how are these designs ever going to be completed & manufactured? Cheerleading his past designs isn't going to make that happen, Strange.

#6838 4 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

and what if the tooth fairy left a quarter under my pillow tonight?
i don't buy AT ALL any of the "too busy to respond" excuses that have been used in this thread (and the other bloodbath) for years now... that is simply laughable... "oh, i'm working SO hard i don't have time to respond to emails".... bull.... part of your job IS TO RESPOND TO EMAILS....
i am dead smack right in the middle of my busiest season of all (and yes, i AM a busy boy right now), but if i decided to not bother responding to my clients because i was "too busy", i would not have those clients for long...
and yes, it sounds silly to say i'm busy, yet have time to post on pinside... call it a mental health break throughout the day... and if i'm posting in this thread as a "mental health break", you can imagine what the rest of the day is like...

I emailed Barry at Dutch Pinball last nite, as I was curious about when we're going to see more updates - and I got a response almost right away! Just TALKING to your customers makes people feel so much more at ease. Every time I emailed Katie at Pinball Sales about my MMr - I got a response within the hour. Sure I wasn't happy about the delays, but I was happy that she responded to my concerns! (Oh, and my MMr shipped yesterday...huzzah!)

#6974 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

I think the best thing about my experience with JPOP is all the new people I have met in the process, not to mention all of us who have been brought closer through shared experiences. Glass half full!

I'm impressed by attitudes like yours....I'm not sure I could be so chill about it if I was part of this situation. I've met tons of amazing pin friends, but it didn't cost me $10k+ to do so.

#6994 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Aaron is all class, like Charlie, Ben, Andrew and even Aurich
John is not. He's taken a salary, lived off of our money while time just slipped away.
The lack of communication shows an utter disrespect for us, a total lack of character and self awareness
Pinball Jpop is finished it looks like. Nice legacy John, looks like you are following SkitB right out the back door

**Offensive post removed**

#7086 4 years ago

Wow. Blaming his customers and POTENTIAL customers for his own failures.

John, it's this simple:


When you don't, conversations that you don't like will flourish.

You don't respond to your own customers! If you did that, and issued refunds for those requesting them...no one would be so pissed at you!

#7187 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

I have been imploring him to publicly show and explain what he has done to date, with lots of pictures and video and audio. So far, he simply won't. It really is frustrating and a shame.

You seem to know him best....please, help us understand the psychology at work here....the big question - "WHY!?!?!" Why does he feel like silence and lack of communication is benefiting him? If there's a Pro and Con list for how he's going about things, what could possibly be in the Pro column? Forget about Pinside for a second...he clearly sees that his own buyers and supporters want communication and answers...they're clearly angry. What could possibly be his reason for continuing in the same manner?

#7299 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Does anyone know how much Jpop was asking for each of his new pins?

Yes, everybody knows.

#7305 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Are you able to let me know through PM?

Haha, I was just messing with you...if you search old threads the numbers aren't secret. I may be off by a few bucks but MG was $16,000 or so, and RAZA was $10,000 or so.

1 week later
#7655 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

I played MG the last two days.
That wasn't a lie.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand? Use your words.

#7693 4 years ago

So, what's the point of PDX saying "I just played it" and nothing else? Haven't we learned that silence allows everyone else to fill in the blanks?

Does the silence mean it sucked? Or does it mean Jpop somehow convinced him to stay quiet. Either way - cockteasing like that doesn't accomplish anything.

#7878 4 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

I 100% agree with the potential being there regarding AIW. Just time and time again when push has come to shove, unlicenced pins get the cold shoulder when it comes time for people to open their wallets. Heck even BHZA and whatever it morphed into lean heavily on "inspired by license" material.
Ben Heck, licensed brand (I realize no money probably changed hands). Then that did not work so lets just be "inspired" by Toho and Mars Attacks.
People complain they want unlicenced themes, just not any that appear to come up for sale apparently

Unlicensed themes are still themes, and people who want unlicensed themes expect them to be of B/W quality (AFM, MM, CV, etc)

In Spooky's case, the art & voice package did not live up to the standards set by B/W - so it is what it is.

In John's case, it was so limited that they got who they got and that was that. As time has gone on, the flake-factor has kicked in - so John could have designed the greatest unlicensed theme ever but who gives a flying F - as of right now he's squandered people's money & has no proof he'll be able to manufacture.

In Dutch's case - they have proven they can program a game and manufacture a product (BOP 2.0) & they have a cool license that they've done justice.

#7899 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

John and his "30 years of being in the pinball industry".

I'd still like to know what this "30 years" entails...if that was part of the premise, this whole project was started on a lie. According to IPDB his first game was a never produced title called Ice Castle in '89. We know he was at Bally/Williams from WCS to SWEp1. Even if you factor in Zizzle...where does 30 years come from? I know Jpop's not very good at math...but seems more like 10 years at most.

Quoted from RobT:

When did TBL go to $10k??

I guess if you factor in shipping and taxes, it edges toward that. I'm gonna forget those things exist and still say it's $8500

Quoted from Skins:

I don't think any are now but I'm quite sure there were some who hoped to catch lightning in a bottle (similarly as to how BBB appreciated) when they first jumped in way back when.

Yeah but BBB was $4500...the fact that it shot up took years (and sheer "luck"). Plus it was a game that was designed already & had many parts made. When you're starting at $17,000 & nothing about the game even exists beyond a title...that's waaay more of a gamble.

#7902 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

I agree with that. No arguments there. I still believe a group justified the price tag by juxtaposing it to BBB.

Absolutely....that's why Jpop priced it so high...this project was announced when BBB prices were at what, $20k+? And Tron LE and BIBLE were up at like $13k.

#7926 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

?? Where does this come from ??
Take away the magnet tricks and Cameron's CV rules, and John is about as mediocre as pinball designers come. Five games, none of which are really recognized for their gameplay... rather about artwork and toys. Hell, John Borg runs rings around this guy, and I used to be the biggest Sega hater. Popadiuk is great for inventing gadgets, and maybe directing artwork, but that's about it IMHO. I've owned 4 of those 5 games and can't say I miss one. Well, maybe WCS a little. Game is just so happy.

Disagree - ToM, TOTAN, and CV's gameplay are fantastic. More than artwork and toys. Physically, they shoot beautifully. Smooth loops, interesting ramp designs. ToM is probably the fastest, smoothest, flowiest game out there. They have cool themes, great art, music and killer presentation. Some people seem to have issues with some of the rules (complaints I don't really understand)...but they're clearly the in the vocal minority. They're very satisfying games to shoot, and there's a reason they're in demand. If they truly played poorly, demand and satisfaction with those games would have waned already.

#7928 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

I agree as well. Love ToM (was my first pin!), TOTAN and CV. Never played WCS but always wanted to own one as I heard good things about the game. I know there's the side of pinball players who think JPOP's games are redundant or too easy, and then there's the collectors like us who love them game. I've come to terms that not everyone will fall in love with JPOP's games. I have and they'll never leave my collection.

Any game can be too easy....and every game has multiple physical & software settings to tweak it to your liking. I dunno, my ToM is set stock and I've never been able to to make it through all the modes in one game. I guess the main complaint with ToM is lack of wizard mode? *shrug* ...I wouldn't have seen it anyway lol. CV can be easy but it's still such a fun experience I don't mind getting to Join the Cirqus on a regular basis.

#7931 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

It's official then: there is a zero percent chance of me owning a NIB TBL.

Play it at my house.

I'm only paying this much because it's Lebowski. I suspect this may be my last NIB pinball purchase. Can't think of many other dream themes....and I won't pay this much for just any game.

#7939 4 years ago
Quoted from PEN:

TOM, and CV are amazing games, but they became boring much quicker than just about any modern Stern. I liked the look and feel of both of those games a lot more than most Sterns. I don't care if I'm the only one who thinks it, but rulesets trump all else in the long run.

I agree that some Stern rulesets have gone above and beyond...but above and beyond ANY B/W game. That being said, the "classic" 90's B/W games still offer a unique original experience that Stern's cannot offer...and if we're comparing Jpop's B/W games to other B/W games - I don't see how any of them can be considered to have worse gameplay or rules than their peers. They absolutely belong "in the club".

Quoted from Pimp77:

LOL! Yeah, riiiiiight.
When that Rush machine comes you'll be in line, oh yes, you'll be in line.

Yeah, you're right...but will anyone do Rush? I have my doubts. If someone does it, I hope it's Stern, as the price will be a bit lower & Lyman is a huge Rush fan and would do it justice.

#7943 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

I'd say JM is the king of flow.
TOM flows well, TOTAN does to some degree but there's little to shoot at from the left flipper to maintain flow.
As for gameplay, it does kinda suck. The "vocal minority" are those who value gameplay above all else, and it's telling they have kept a near blanket ban on all non-WCS94 Popadiuk from tournaments. ToM has exploitable rules (left orbit), ToTAN is a trainwreck, although good for beginners. CV appears nice at first, until you realize you're only ever shooting half the playfield-- left orbit, ramp (and lock targets), and Ringmaster. SWep1... Williams' last game ever, sunset of the pinball titan, sells for just a smidgen over 2K, and it ain't all because of Jar Jar.
I'm not a random Popadiuk hater. I owned WCS94 for 14 years, Ep1 for 13, ToTAN for 3 and CV for 8. After playing those for so long, and comparing them to games like TZ and MM and STTNG (then), and Metallica, WOZ and STLE (now), they're amazingly boring. Blingy but boring.

The term "gameplay" is subjective. When you start bringing Tournament logic into things, almost ANY great game can "suck". There are a good chunk of players who don't even remotely think about the things Tournament players think about in terms of playing the game or deriving enjoyment from the game.

Obviously opinions on games are very subjective and everyone has different tastes - but let's be objective...you may have bored of ToM, TOTAN, and CV...but those games do have excellence beyond the superficial, and most would be happy to play/own them. I don't even remotely like TZ - I'd rather play any other game....but I respect what it brings to the table and understand why people like it.

SWEp1 does blow though...I'm with you there lol

#7952 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

I think it comes down to software on his games. I really enjoy wcs. Cv is not as fun but still decent. Tom leaves me completely flat. Love the art. Love the music. Love the theme. The software lets me down. Totan falls short in lots of depts for me. Opinions are like credit cards...

I've never been able to figure out why anyone thinks TOM's software is bad. There are tons of modes, multiballs, hurry ups, gimmicks - there are always cool things going on and it's butter smooth to shoot. I can't think of one thing that puts it below other games of its era. I've heard "no wizard mode" and "tournament exploits". Is that it? What else am I missing? I just have fun every time I play it.

#8227 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

From FB: "John says time to replace these little ramp puppies with some serious plastic rampage.....on the way...!"
11060839_966373533407187_1973387271677356475_n.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
Can he really think that admitting he doesn't have ramps done for the game after all these years is worth broadcasting?

And there's PDXmonkey...with his face right in the game....yet - SO SILENT.

#8272 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I'm just confused with how the $15k-$17k price tag is being justified? I already see what you get with a new JJP Ruby Red WOZ for $9k, a Stern LE at nearly $8k, and a MMR LE at $8k. Where in Magic Girl and RAZA is the other $5k-$8K in parts and features?

You're paying for rarity...for "limited print art". It's not about the BOM. With LEs, it's never about the BOM.

#8298 4 years ago

Sorry to chime in and not be an owner (several times close and spoken with him personally) BUT I just don't see this being resolved until he actually is threatened with jail time or being sued for his personal assets... THEN.. he would turn over whatever worth/less assets he has for Stern to actually produce.. JPOP obviously just can't ever get his sh(# together to even come close to producing an actual game...
Artwork on MG does look great...as a concept... have Stern like a vulture seize the assets... push JPOP aside and finish the game with an experienced production/code team..I would be a buyer then..

He already approached Stern and they said "go away".

#8325 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Sorry rarehero, dude is right. BBB was instantly worth over twice what it sold for. That was a gamble that lots of people wish they'd taken - but I was very wary of forking over $4500 back then on a pipe dream. Just not my style, then or now.

I mean that BBB sold for $4500 - took years to finally be completed and ship...then shot up. But even after the initial shoot up it kept climbing. Now it's what...$30k for a NIB? Holy moly...

#8397 4 years ago
Quoted from musketd:

I am frineds with Jpop

With frineds like Jpop, who needs emenies!?!?

#8408 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

The "rules" that require you to make all of 2 shots each to finish 4 of the jewel modes?
The "rules" surrounding the most basic main multiball ever in a WPC game?
The "rules" that let you play genie battle forever, scoring all the way?
The "rules" that make the left orbit only ever worth one award at a time?
Yea, great rules.... most system11 games outplay this turd turd.gif

These complaints sound logical, but at the end of the day - most people just have fun playing Tom/TOTAN/CV and these complaints don't enter their minds while playing. If the rules were truly obviously horrible, these games wouldn't hold their value or be desired. You're right - there is no reason to shoot the "SPIN" loop around the Ringmaster's head once you've collected it...but sometimes I do it by accident...bad aim to the Ringmaster's head results in a loop shot...and that loop shot still feels good and I like that it whips back at me for another shot. I've never thought of the rules being bad due to that shot having limited purpose.

I think some games have universally reviled rules....and some like these only bother a small segment of people. If these games aren't making everyone say "THEY SUUUUCK!", then these games are doing ~something~ right.

#8410 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Apples and oranges, I think. Metallik was talking about TOTAN, and you're talking about CV.

He and others have been saying TOTAN/TOM/CV are lacking in the code dept and become boring. I quoted the most recent post, but I was also commenting on an earlier point.

#8442 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

You just described myself in 2002 (minus the topper), a couple years after I'd gotten TOTAN and back when I still enjoyed playing it. As you said, beautiful light show and great music. For some people, simple games are all they need. 12 years ago, that was good enough for me. Since then, I've found so many more, better-playing machines, that I don't see the point in just banging the ball around and shooting shots just to see them whip back at me, so to speak.

Well there ya go - keep in mind people have jumped into pinball at different times. If I was playing pinball in 2002, I'm sure I'd be bored of everything. I probably never played a TOTAN until 2009, and I've never owned one. I've had ToM for a few years, CV since '09 I think? Granted, I barely play CV anymore - so maybe I *am* bored of it lol...but, it still has a place in my collection. Presentation is a big part of code...and I really enjoy "the world" of TOM and CV. Of course the rules aren't crazy nuanced as Met or AC/DC - that's doesn't make them bad, though. I'll play Met and AC/DC when I wanna give my brain a workout...CV when I just want some simple fun. I'd rather play a slick simple game that knows what it is than a "deep" game like STLE that lacks a cohesive creative vision.

#8449 4 years ago
Quoted from pinstor12:

Oops, I thought I clicked on the jpop update thread concerning mg, raza, aiw.

What are these games you speak of? I've never seen them!

#8456 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

New facebook post from JPOP:
image.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Yay! So who's coding it, who's building it, when do they ship?

#8499 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Lets not forget expo is five months away...

Holy moly time flies.....

#8708 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

I argued a long time ago that anyone who pays for a pin before trying it isn't doing it right. This has been true for Stern for a long time. It's even more imperative for these startups who have never made a pin. It drives me crazy to see post "Kiss is going to be the best pin ever!" or "The Hobbit will be excellent!! I'm certain!!!!" But everyone keeps doing it. Oh well... People are free to do what they want but complaining about the game sucking or never getting your pin is a chance that everyone who supports this takes.

You're right - but sometimes a compelling theme or project puts on your optimism blinders. I bought Transformers and X-Men based on theme...look how those turned out. Sold them, moved on....but at least I HAD the shitty games so I could sell them!

#8742 4 years ago

Jpop's games don't use glass! He has a patent on a new invisible force field!

#9046 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Last I checked I didn't owe you a thing.
My offer is serious though.

You don't owe anyone....but look at the distress that Jpop is causing his customers & suppliers - if you know something and choose not to share info that would ease their fears and stress - you're choosing to be a dick.

#9049 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Fair enough angry mob.
I retract my offer.

...and the info you know that caused you to make that offer issssss.................

#9368 4 years ago

Hoooolllly shhiiiitt........Jpop, man....you are a vomit's vomit.

While this new deal just seems like a butt-covering scam....let me try to wrap my head around it.

Basically, RAZA and AIW are done. NO ONE will want to wait 4 more years and no one wants HALF-CREDIT toward MG "standard". They're hoping EVERY person with a deposit on these projects will convert to MG"LE". This deal is to strong-arm people into committing to the 199 MG's....money's gone, no refunds, so - no choice, hop on this great new deal!

It's a doozy...maybe Zombieyeti's instincts are right this time and these new guys are legit - however, how on earth could they present this deal and be SECRETIVE!?!? Secrets are what boned this project from the beginning. Whoever this new licensee is - they need to step forward, introduce themselves, layout their credentials and SPECIFICS as to how this thing is going to get finished. I don't believe anyone can stomach more faith at this point.

Aye-yai-yai! ...I don't envy you dudes with money in on this. If this new shit is legit, switching to MG might be the only way you'll get something for your money....but what a kick in the nuts having to trust some other mystery-man *AND* pay more *AND* wait more. Ugh....clusterfuck city.

My condolences and I hope this somehow works out.....but Jpop - you're over. He's so self unaware though, he'll probably still show up at pinball shows thinking people will be happy to see him.

#9382 4 years ago

This is now Jpop's theme song:

#9412 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

Is the deal perfect? No.
Is there a better alternative? I'm all ears...

Thinking about it more....this deal BLOOOWS. The presentation of it blows. It's a strongarm tactic filled with secrets.

If this new investor is legit, here's the alternative:

1.) REVEAL YOURSELF. You can't look at this as "hey guys, I'm doing you a favor...shut up and take the deal". Tell us who you are, why you're doing this, what your credentials are, and SPECIFICS as to how this can play out.

2. Revise the deal...this strong-arm thing sucks. You're asking people to pay more for a game they didn't order and wait 2 more years. F*CK THAT.

Option A: All MG buyers get their MG LE. All RAZA buyers get the MG Classic for their RAZA PRICE. When everyone is made whole, sell MG Classics to your heart's content.

Option B: If you believe in this game so much that you're taking on this burden, truly put your money where your mouth is. REFUND EVERYBODY. Start from scratch. Finish & build the game - then sell it, forget about editions....just sell it. If everyone has refunds, it's like it never happened, there will be less animosity toward the project - and new people will be more likely to want to buy it.

I believe these options are the only way to make this right. The current solution is toxic and will leave people who are scared and hurt in the same position - scared and hurt.

#9414 4 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Pinchili nailed it!!! If you sign that agreement you are a sucker!!!

I think all owners should band together and vow not to sign it ....make the investor come out in public and revise the deal.

I'm sure a few people will be scared and sign it, though...

#9459 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

BS. He's not an idiot either.
I wouldn't do it. I hope he tells everybody to F themselves
Don't like it? You don't get shit and we move on
I swear I don't know wtf is wrong with some of you people
You also have the option to go away and not do anything
Nobody likes John and he's a POS for doing what he did.
That doesn't change the reality of the situation. Deal with it

You don't see how this is F'd up for everyone outside the Jpop-bubble's POV?

-Mystery investor saving the day
-Sign in 4 days, take the deal & promise not to sue or GET NOTHING
-Change your RAZA order to MGLE & pay more
-Want RAZA? Wait 4 years.

This is a horrible deal. If someone is saving this project "for the love of pinball", this is not the way to do it.

#9464 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The Investor would be dumber than John to assume the liabilities. Based on the reception here there won't be 199 to sell so it might be over anyhow before it starts

Dude, as toxic as this is? Is there ANY reality to people buying 199 $16,000 pinball machines!?!??!?! Are you F'ing mad!?!? The ONLY way this works is if EVERY RAZA buyer switches over (125?) + 16 MG buyers...that's 141...you really think 58 MORE people are gonna sign on? ...and that's assuming all the RAZA's switch over. This deal is stupid. It's unrealistic. It's insulting.


#9487 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You might think differently if it was your 1 million that was at risk

If you have a million at risk, why do it THIS way? It just doesn't make any sense to jump into this thing alienating people and pissing off everyone.

Personally, I think my options were more reasonable for the risk taking investor.

Once again:

A.) Refund everyone, make the game you believe in, sell it. Clean slate, all forgiven, if the game is awesome (it must be if he's taking this on), it will sell.

B.) Automatically transfer all RAZAs to MG without any extra cost or 50c on the $ bullshit. It may not make everyone happy but that type of goodwill can go a long way in this situation.


#9540 4 years ago
Quoted from ralphwiggum:

Even if the mystery new guy is capable, he still has to work with the other guy that isn't. That is the part that is going through most people's minds right now. If all the rights were just given to someone else and the mad professor was kicked out of the lab, a lot of people might hang around just because there was someone else in there that wasn't going to blow the place up.

I get the feeling that this "consultant" thing is in name only. No WAY Jpop will get paid further - I think he just wants to help his babies get born....but he probably won't have any "rights" from now on to ask for more art changes, revisions, etc....but he'll answer questions and whatnot.

#9584 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I know who the new guy is and it's not my place to "out" him. He can step forward when he wants.

That fact that anyone would still keep Jpop's secrets baffles me. F the guy, out him! The only chance of this thing ever getting back on the rails is NO MORE SECRETS!!!