(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (2 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (2 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (2 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (2 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (2 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (2 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)


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-1
#73 5 years ago

Can't we just wait until it's revealed? John wants it to be secret. Talking about being not able to talk about it does not accomplish anything.

I feel John is correct that his ideas might be copied, but one thing I will say John seems to be striving for quality, as if it was a fine watch.

#77 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

So the thread should be locked?

No it's fascinating, like Seinfeld the show about nothing, this is the tread about nothing.

#120 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

For all the other crap people are slinging, this is pretty pathetic. Regardless of whether anyone agrees or disagrees with the secrecy issue, Jpop set his own rules, which is his right. You knew the parameters before you sent in money, that was no secret. You signed a LEGAL document for F#*& sake. And yet you are publicly willing to completely disregard that and hand the information out to anyone that PMs you? That's slimy and classless. I send NDAs to sub-contractor that work for my business all the time; I sure hope they respect my company's privacy more than you do Jpop's.
Jpop has a Facebook page and posts some pictures there. He does not post all the stuff from his blog there. Don't you think that is because he has made a conscious decision of what to make public and what he is trying to keep private? Who are you to overrule that decision for him? You handing out the information despite the NDA you signed is illegal and totally lame. If you respect Jpop as much as you say you do, then don't disrespect him by violating one of his primary requirements as a buyer.
And your "sub-NDA" comment had to be a joke. If you can't even honor an actual legal document from a respected designer like Jpop, who is going to honor a less-than-legal document from some dude on Pinside?

100%

1 month later
#174 5 years ago

It took Michelangelo over 4 years to paint the Sistine Chapel so we are not past that milestone yet.

#177 5 years ago

I think the idea here is that better is the enemy of good. John always sees something better. When he was with Williams he did not have this luxury.

I think for this money I'd rather have a better game rather than a quick game.

There is a saying you can have something done quick, cheap, and good pick two.

#181 5 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

Between the ceiling and the last judgement it took him 10.

So we should give Jpop some slack.

4 weeks later
#212 5 years ago
Quoted from taz:

If RAZA's LED placement is any indication, this isn't MG.

they could be different. I mean the LCD with different location or size. That certainly looks like Jpop's studio.

1 month later
#298 5 years ago

why-so-empty_o_1263137.jpg

#446 5 years ago
Quoted from BloodyCactus:

the angle of those cabs is crazy. do not like the shape of the cab. i wonder if its so steep to house some hugeass toy in the back? anyway.. hmm

it's for the LCD which require more height in the back wall, plus adds extra room for more height for more levels or higher ramps.

#454 5 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

I appreciate that your primary concern is the quality of the pin, so if it takes time, so be it -BUT...
like everything else, JPOP has overhead. Not high overhead, but everything costs money month after month.
With a limited number of games being produced, my concern is whether he'll run out of cash flow before he gets all these games made.

Value point.

#533 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

One of the things I hope John realizes, as constructive criticism, you shouldn't show up to Expo with two empty boxes and expect to wow people when you have TBL, Heighway, Wooly and others blowing people away.
He has a ton of great stuff to show, overly concerned about the intellectual property issues.

Exactly and he should not have said "we are planning for a big reveal at Expo" or words to that effect, I was expecting no less than a fully working prototype or two.

#534 5 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

But aliens don't really fit the zombie theme IMO.
rd.

'Plan 9 from outer space' had aliens reanimated dead humans (zombies).

But I see your point in that this game lacks direction or has changed directions so many times it's hard to figure heads or tails.

#540 5 years ago

Still, if he said 17 pins and now it seems as if he will sell more than that, I think that's a breach of contract from John's part and owners should be able to get a refund based on the fact. He did a similar thing with RAZA when he added 25 Cointaker editions at the last minute.

#586 5 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

It's funny how so many of you who have preordered are complaining about the turnaround of John's games fully aware how masterful the creative force is (greatest Pin designer ever?) along with how darn right rare these games are actually gonna be once released. If I just had the resources to be in on all 3 of Zidware's games it would be a no brainer.

I guess JPops games reach into artsy-fartsy territory and not everyone has the eye or taste or patience for that sort of thing, I get that, and some of you just want modern high quality entertaining pins as soon as possible there are so many other options out and about. Go for them! JPop is one of kind talent that seems to take forever doing the shit that he does with the aim of producing work that is one of kind - GET OFF THE MAN'S NUTS

At the time we were signing up, there was a 'schedule' something like 18 month (ish) not set in stone, but it's getting close to be double that now and not even close to done. We have no idea if any of the projects are close to anything playable. For all I know we may still be in the first half of the process, this was never hinted at, it's not like John said this might take 4-6 years (or else few people would have been interested).

I don't think there would be so much grinding as you see here if we were seeing progress on the private blog. We give him a long leash, but all we see are bits and pieces such as flashers or hinges or pop bumpers. If John was close, I would expect him to show something substantial. It's almost as if he's still in the concept phase.

#675 5 years ago

John is out of his mind, he is obsessing about other makers not painting the vent holes in the back of their machines. It's on his blog he says he won't do it that way, his vent holess will be painted and finished properly.

I could care less about the f-en vent holes in the back of the cabinet, at least the other makers have a playable demo game.

#685 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Just saw your post, followed up with another one of mine on the blog!

Can't wait to see the blog, hope it's not deleted before I see it, if so hope you save a copy of what you wrote.

Will add my 2c this afternoon

#697 5 years ago

I have not read the blog yet, but I think we are not being out of bounds to ask when this game will be done or can we get a refund for non delivery.

John said he'd have a major reveal at Expo to me that was code for a flipping prototype, to see the empty cabinet was shocking to say the least.

I don't think the majority of owners are pitchfork wielding, or are saying we need the games ASAP, what we want to see is that it's moving forward.

I've seen enough concept art or workspace pics or nostalgia pics and stories, that's fine for a while but it's time to put up or shut up, at this point I don't know what type of settlement will be left over so it's benifitial to both sides for John to make the pins he has contracted to make, but the ball is in his court.

I think too many have been stroking his ego, if I ask a question he'd deflect and say he's working 7 days a week etc.. Others would say we know you are John keep up the great work.

Believe me the bits he has shown are great, but it's like 20% of a whole pin, I can't imagine what's going on for those 7 day weeks for 3 years, I think a working prototype is more important than fancy hinges or painted vent holes.

-1
#707 5 years ago

John would be all like :

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#731 5 years ago

Just posted on the Blog hopefully he will take the time to read it and respond to this and all the other concerned posts there.

#788 5 years ago

I am nothing if not patient, I have quite sufficient number of games to tide me over. So it's not really that I am mad that it may take 5-6 years (if you count from announcement to delivery if you figure it may take several months after it's done to build all the games).

My issue has been that John had said something like this is our timetable delivery of games 2013-14 ish. Now it's getting on to 2015 and we are still in the artsy fartsy semi reveal stage. It's as if we are in the starting blocks when I see TBL or AMH going from zero to finished in 18-20 months. (I understand TBL may have been started a while before announcement). But the fact remains that it's entirely possible to design and build a prototype in less than 20 months. And John has been at it for going on 40 months for MG.

I understand more than people on the outside, that John is not simply trying to build a playable pinball game, he could have made a typical game like AMH (I don't mean any disrespect) but I've played AMH and it's very nice, but to me it's similar to other games with typical cabinet and parts.

John seems to want to make the nee plus ultra of pins, like Rolls Royce makes other cars seem ordinary. John is looking at the PF supports and making them works of art, he's looking at every little detail and saying how can we improve on this?

But as time piles on time, someone has to say enough already no one really cares what the PF supports look like or the back of the cabinet or a hundred other things, when we see TBL or AMH or MMR and say ask do I want to wait for another 1-3 years or do I want to play some pinball?

Hopefully, John will see the light (I mean TBL and AMH and Wooly) and gets moving as he likes to say he's working 7 days a week, but with all that time after 30-40 months of 7 days a week, I expect to see something sooner rather than later.

Believe me, I don't expect this to happen in a short time, we have seen with WoZ and Predator and Nemo that things take longer than we expect, maybe take a time you expect and double it. But time has past and we'd like to see more progress than art scetches and bumper caps and hinges.

#794 5 years ago

MG looks great. Too bad he doesn't finish the game and offer it for sale like TBL ( no limits except the number of people who can afford it) and he'd still have a very exclusive (low number) but at least it would have to sell based on merit not based on being ultra rare. Plus people wouldn't have had money tied up forever.

I know that's not what he's doing, but that's the selling method I'd prefer. If it really is beyond all pins as the price suggests than people will pay for it. But making it rare like Kingpin just so that it can sell for a high price seems backwards to me.

#848 5 years ago

What I think about TBL effect, is that DP had a game and showed it, they were not scared others would copy. Also they knew it was good and so let it speak for itself.

John should take a lesson. All the time he doesn't show anything either in public like the expo or in private on the blog makes it seem like he doesn't have anything to show or he's not confident in his effort in relation to the competition.

I think this quote from the movie 'The Gumball Rally' is appropriate:

image-144.jpg

#859 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I was pondering the secrecy, under "what's the worst that can happen".
Say, jpop showed an unfinished game at expo this month. In the game was a cool as hell toy, a robotic dog that walks across the playfield, picks up the ball with a magnet, and drops it into a hole somewhere (I made this up).
. BUT..... jpop's games are already long spoken for, and everyone knows and saw he had this toy first.
I mean, this is the worst-case-scenario, and the worst thing is the jpop owners all got to see some cool shit and were pumped up along the ride.

That's what I mean by the quote "what's behind me is not important"

Meaning John claims a toy or idea by showing it.

Let's say Skit-B says they are going to do UV paint, that's his idea. Now if someone else does it, ok but it's from Skit-B's idea list.

Plus the other side of that is that the game should be built in a timely manner, not like Predator or RAZA which have been germinating for 30-40 months, it's time to produce a game if that's what you intend to do.

If John wants to be an idea factory that's one thing, but he billed and sold himself as a pinball maker it's time to make something.

#935 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

As much as I love zombies (I'm in on RAZA), I like the magic theme more than Jpop's version of zombies. That said, I just can't justify $17K for a toy. The overwhelming majority of pinball machines are not "worth" anything close to what we spend on them, so there is a level of idiocy we all have paying this much for toys. I just have to draw the line on insanity somewhere, and apparently it must be at $10K.

So true, at the time Xmle was $6600 so having a $10k game RAZA was high but now with TWD LE, STLE, MMR and TH at or near $8k and TBL pushing $9k (which is a closer comparison to RAZA anyway) $10k almost sounds about right.

$17k is a lot of cabbage, as in that I bought Tron, IM and Xmle for that same amount.

#1003 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And I just noticed, wanted to pop in #1000 on this thread, it feels like a #10000 post journey so far!

maybe someday this will be the RAZA/MG owners club.

Anyway as for Kiss, I'm sure it was not wasted time, he likely gained some experience with design and such, as you can see the LCD placement is similar to the games he will be making.

John told me (when I enquired about AIW) I asked if the money from AIW was being spent on the first two games that he was building a company (and infer the R&D behind the game (money) is comingled).

#1005 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

And like CV which is how old...

so you're saying CV has a LCD or that programming a DMD (as in CV) is the same as programing for full color LCD cartoon animation?

#1046 5 years ago

When someone sells a nib Stern Gary doesn't come on the forum and say the machine will not have any warranty support like Jack did when someone tried to sell a nib WoZ.

#1047 5 years ago

I don't think John has changed anything regarding open access to more info or real timeline. He's just quieted the restless natives.

1 week later
#1073 5 years ago
Quoted from Sjsilver:

Did he explicitly promise a fully playable game in December, or just a "Lebowski style reveal"? If it was the latter, I would highly moderate your expectations.

image-144.jpg

#1078 5 years ago

article on Jpop, I do think his cabinets got ignored at Expo, I mean look at that art.

http://pavlovpinball.com/john-popadiuk-pinballs-steve-jobs/

clownfeat2-620x264.jpg
jpop.jpg

#1080 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

The art with aliens and clowns instead of Zombies?

There will be Zombies as well, the alien shoots a gun and turns people into zombies.

TILTed post. Sign in to be able to view TILTed posts.
1 week later
#1149 5 years ago

Let's put a pin in this thread and check back after next expo and see where we are.

#1160 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

It is frustrating to see these release dates given to an interviewer and the casual mention of an additional project without any of this info going to owners.

Also, John goes and makes Kiss for no one and leaves the paying customers hanging in the wind, and I believe (likely) he used our money to finance Kiss.

John is making Kevin (Skit-B) look good and that takes a lot of doing.

#1185 5 years ago

Predator is also a couple years late iirc

#1225 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

John just posted on the Blog that he is gunna do a full game reveal on RAZA the first week of January

Let's hope.

Did he actually say this January?

#1227 5 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

From the courseware section it looks as if participants will be building a whitewood in just 1 week....maybe John should sign up for this himself.

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#1317 5 years ago
Quoted from Multiball1:

LED was completely interactive with game play (scoring), as was lighting, music, speech, and sounds. My opinion is that coding is far from primitive, but certainly by no means finished.

You mean LCD.

#1320 5 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

16K for MG and 11K for RAZA.

$17k
$10k

1 week later
#1551 5 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

John has NDAs with everyone. I think that is what makes reading this thread difficult. There are many people who would love to weigh in constructively one way or another, but cannot.
I am sure in a couple years when everyone's NDAs have expired there will be a great sharing. But until then there really isn't anything that can be shared that divulges anything that is not already publicly known.
FWIW, I have a lot of respect for John as a designer. I have regular communication with him and have enjoyed his input and advice. John has gone dark on me from time to time when he, I assume, was focused on his work. I have been to his workshop. I have seen a lot of exciting pinball in the works.
The best advice we have received from veteran pinball folks like John is that "to build great pinball you need a great team." This is advice that we at FAST have taken very seriously.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Post edited by fastpinball: typo

Aaron what does Fastpinball do?

12
#1584 5 years ago

It's a bit funny that John is working with Fast Pinball (fast and John don't seem to go together).

I found a funny pic of how fast John is:

snail-vs-turtle.jpg

#1597 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

This is the bottom line, and is why NDA's like those in place with the owners aren't really worth the paper that they are written on. Like you said, the only leverage he would really have would be to issue a refund and say "no pin for you".
I know that the NDA that I signed certainly didn't include a liquidated damages clause.

some would welcome a refund at this point.

It's really frustrating that this project as with Predator has disintegrated from what should be fun and exciting to such a low state of morale and lack of communication is one of the main factors.

#1601 5 years ago

I was asking John for a refund on RAZA not so much out of inpatients but more because if apathy due to lack of progress at this point, maybe if the reveal is nice I would be more on board.

John never responded to my asking for a refund but he did invite me to visit him, however he never mentioned my query for a refund. These were in email not on the phone. But the disconnect is weird like I'm asking one thing and he's asking a completely opposite thing.

I almost feel like visiting him but almost I'm scared to as if I may not like what I'll see.

Anyone visited him? Is it worth the trip?

#1642 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I wonder how much time and $$ was wasted on the KISS art and mock up.
Really stunning that any time was spent on that fiasco while we wait for our paid games.

Right on, I only hope it was his play money and not a slush fund of all the deposits.

I had been very happy at one time to be on this RAZA list, but as time went by, less so.

I'm trying to figure out how far along this curve we are

image.jpgimage.jpg

#1643 5 years ago

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#1648 5 years ago

I'm still trying to figure out why Skit-B needed more than half from every owner to get the ball rolling and that was more than 6 months ago. What the heck, AMH didn't need half from every owner and they are actually making the games.

At least I think MMR is just a small deposit, but in all honesty they should refund anyone who asks based on their missed timeline. Imo

#1717 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Well if he wants to amaze and astound people with "The Lebowski Effect" maybe he'll start refunding people.

I'd be satisfied with that.

#1749 5 years ago

Off topic, but what happened exactly with TBL?

#1800 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

We need to keep the pressure on John guys! I posted on the blog last night, I think if the owners go quiet on the blog John takes that as an all clear to go back to design mode rather than finish the F#cking game mode.
So if you are on the blog don't be shy, post some motivational thoughts for JPOP!

I know he reads the blog (sometimes) he has specifically responded to my prior posts, but if I post something about what's the timeline or can I have a refund it's totally ignored.

-3
#1939 5 years ago

Somebody should make a Hitler video out of this mess.

#1941 5 years ago

dog day.png

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#2017 5 years ago

I have a feeling, that john will eventually make and deliver his games. But I also have a feeling that the time until that end will be measured in years.

If john had been up front and said I'm selling these games with a delivery date of: impossible to say or if he had said the delivery date would be somewhere between 2013 and 2017. I am not sure how many would have signed up.

Further, I think his 'self imposed' build limit is a ruse as well, he could have said unlimited MG games (limited that is to how many people can fork over $17,000 for a game).

His self imposed limit was deliberate to entice buyers to pony up money, rather than take a wait and see approach.

As a side note, I just got a note from John saying "yesterday we began the MG reveal for the owners..."

But apparently me being just a RAZA owner, I don't count. I suppose my money was not used in any way to develope MG? In other words if he bought a 3D printer or whatever for use with MG and RAZA wouldn't I be entitled to a reveal of MG?

#2018 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

This is the main reason I felt comfortable putting down money on RAZA. Given John's proven track record as a designer, and the invaluable experience he gained from his days at Williams, I figured this project would be a walk in the park for him. I expected to see some cool innovation, but I didn't think he was going to try to completely reinvent the wheel.

Quoted for truth.

#2024 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Our RAZA money was used to complete Mg.

So shouldn't any reveal of MG also be posted on the RAZA blog? Is that unreasonable for me to assume, we are waiting for proof of life, and he won't show anyone but MG owners anything?

I have respect for John, but if he were here, I would also have some hard words for his lack of professionalism.

#2028 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Well that's the thing, when asked about who's money paid for what, he'll tell you he's building a company. Well our money built his company, and we're not allowed to see those results.

Total BS from John.

First he said wait until the Expo and he brings friken empty cabinets and a translight he won't let anyone take a picture of.

Then he says wait until Dec 17 for a Lebowski "on the rug"-like reveal. So far I'm still waiting for a picture of anything remotely resembling a working pinball machine.

#2032 5 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

It's in a picture on this post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread……………mg-raza-and-aiw…/page/35#post-2106409
That blurry green blob in the background is it. Great stuff!

Nuts

#2041 5 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Those pictures are looking really cool...

You want to buy me out?

#2092 5 years ago
Quoted from rs812:

I keep reading over and over the description of this situation as an "investment" in Zidware. My question is, how exactly is any of this considered an "investment?" Is it because the games will presumably quadruple in value! if and when they are released, due to their rarity?
I don't see anywhere where stock or interests in the company Zidware have been bought, sold, or traded. But for the presumed immediate appreciation in value of these games upon release, how is sending money off to purchase a game in any way, shape, or form an "investment?".
I have purchased NIB games on several occasions, but I have never considered it an "investment" in stern. It was simply a transaction for the purchase of goods. I paid, they delivered. The best I can tell, a very important part of the bargained for exchange of goods herein appears to missing.

funny I never saw any posts saying it's an investment, I see a lot of posts saying we paid for a product that has not been delivered. Can you point out any posts that use the word investment?

#2228 5 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

I'm not trying to be a jerk. Just asking...can you afford a MG?

image.jpg

#2253 5 years ago

What's likely to happen, John will give up and build some crappy pin in a snazzy cabinet, he'll say here you are, so he doesn't get his ass sued off.

It's what is meant by the expression don't buy a pig in a poke, I love finding almost the exact phrase to describe the situation.

image.jpg

#2273 5 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Care to comment about John working Tesla for his 4th title when that was your idea? Or do you not care, you just want to see it made?

I'm waiting for the 5th game.

#2426 5 years ago

will be nice games, but I can't believe RAZA will be shipping for a long time. Lets pretend middle of 2016 (which is about 18 months from now), that would represent 3 years late. And I can't even begin to think it will be middle of 2016.

I'm still surprised that Predator and MMR are not shipping, can you just imagine how long RAZA will take to go gold and then the production will take quite a while (I would bet).

#2455 5 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I see assembled games... but I have no fantasy that an assembled game is one that is anywhere near complet.

Remember, Kevin (Skit-B) had working games 2-3 years ago. I hope MG does not take another 2-3 years to get delivered.

Also, I see no RAZA games so what's that mean a year behind MG?

#2456 5 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

JPop is all over the place and needs focus and needs it soon.
Post edited by hank527

This is very true.

#2457 5 years ago

I think the games look great, not sure about the huge contraption in the middle of MG, I would fear the games will be overloaded with toys and gizmos and become somewhat trouble prone or cramped (not a wide body but packed with toys).

Also, I would be more than happy to buy any of his games based on the art and craftsmanship. But I'd prefer to do it after they are made.

Let's say I don't like the play or rules of WOF. What if the game he makes is WOF-like. Then I'm stuck with a gorgous game with superb craftmanship which I dont particularly care for.

This is the problem with buying a game just based on a concept.

I like TWD! But I need to play it or at least see how it plays before I buy.

I think, it would be better for John (more upside) if he could sell as many games as people can afford. I hate this limited BS and I hate pre-ordering. And I especially hate pre-ordering when the end game is in doubt or if the shipping date is 5-6 years after the money is collected.

#2520 5 years ago

Back on topic, does anyone think MG will be shipping in 2015? or that RAZA will ship in 2016?

Does anyone think that the machines will never be built, or is it just a matter of 'when' (x number of years)?

If it's just a matter of waiting that's bad enough, but I'd really hate to pay so much with nothing to show.

#2524 5 years ago

Games look great, john has great attention to detail.

image.jpg

#2525 5 years ago

image-853.jpgimage.jpg

#2635 5 years ago

thing that gets me now. Didn't really hit me at the time. But John had a neat idea for a 'porthole' cut in the side of the game (RAZA) and there would be a viewing window. So in the space that was normally empty inside a game or not for view he was going to put a 'reactor' light and some art and decoration.

Now, I was like plus minus on the idea since I keep my games like 3" apart it would have to be on the end to see anything, but I'd probably prefer to keep it in the middle of my lineup to protect the side cabinet. But I was thinking what the heck it's not a big deal. Personally it's not a 'great' idea but it can't hurt.

So, John goes on about this and posts so much on the blog and how the porthole will be cut here and how he's working on the 'reactor' and on and on.

But in the back of my mind I was thinking, John that's fine don't dwell on it. I can easily see now that John is fixated on these mundane details that are not important.

I'd rather see John work from the most important to the least important things. Skit-B had a working game from the beginning and started working on the finishing touches and tweaking as they needed.

It seems like John (from what he's shown) is more worried about the smallest least important aspects like the head hinge and the 'reactor' and many aspects that may be considered and discarded along the way.

You can see the porthole (but hole not cut yet). I almost would rather not have the darn thing to be honest, don't like the way it breaks up the artwork for one thing. But also, doesn't John realize there is more important things to making a pin, and this kind of nonsense is way down on the priority list.

304737.jpg

#2650 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I think that was one of Skit-b's keys to (early) success. They had something to show people, as rough as it was, and the software was basically complete.
Now, of course they are having trouble getting from that to production, but so is jpop, and with jpop no one (that I know of) has actually seen a playable game (by playable, something resembling a final prototype game experience, not just flippers knocking a ball around). If there is a playable game, the "reveal" would have been a good time to show it.

That's what I was thinking if it takes several years from a flipping whitewood such as WoZ and Perdator, (even MMR is taking a while) if John is not even at that stage then he's still several years out on these games.

#2673 5 years ago

At one time I really admired John, but he's seriously pissed me off right now.

I wonder what the verdict will be if he does deliver some great pins but in 2017 or 2018. Will all be forgotten and looked back on with nostalgia about how we waited 6-7 years for the pins?

#2800 5 years ago
Quoted from Redeyes:

I'm willing to pay a fee to get help with this. PM me. Thanks! I will also sell my spot for 5500. I have 6250 on deposit willing to take a 750 hit

I feel you, it's like he's not aware that we have lives and bills etc..

If he had made a game, we could sell it. But absent a physical game (it don't look like we will have one anytime soon) than I think he should be more open to refund on request.

#2836 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

An interesting video from March of 2012, "behind you is a working prototype of MG"....
» YouTube video

Almost 3 years ago.

#2842 5 years ago

What's all this BS about Stern, can we please redirect to the imaginary pins by Jpop?

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#2900 5 years ago

Funny thing is, not funny haha but funny, that the Predator pin is so unbelievably delayed ( was initially roumord to be near WoZ's date), even TH and MMR which you would think would have been easier to complete what with JJP and his team of workers and already one pin under his belt.

Predator almost seems like a basic system 11 type game, would assume that would be done start to finish in under 24 months.

With John not doing a remake or a simple design or working within an huge organization but instead trying to re-invent everything from lights to nuts and bolts (it wouldn't surprise me if he was actually) the timetable for John must be Predator/TH/MMr times 2 or 3.

So while I'm disappointed, I'm not surprised when you consider those other examples I listed that are also delayed.

#2941 5 years ago

Would you guys agree that John is in Breach of contract?

His contract states:

The company will use it's reasonable and best efforts to complete this project in a reasonable amount of time. Any delays or extensions to the planned schedule will be communicated in a timely manner.

Last page has a timeline with delivery date estimated at 4th quarter of 2013.

#3005 5 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

I feel for all of you.
I am a bit mad at JPOP for a different reason: the very bad experience you all had with Zidware pinball is probably one of the reasons why the Wrath of Olympus (WOOLY) project did not attract enough pre-orders (I sincerely hope Scott will find a way to make this dream come true).
Too much money "invested" into preorders - and JPOP is not the only culprit - with no game in sight or long delays (JJP).

I would have got wooly if John had refunded my money, it's a joke John is officially without credibility and respect from here on out, it's no wonder he doesn't work for any major pinball company.

#3016 5 years ago
Quoted from slapshot:

The situation could be like Martin Sheen walking into Marlon Brando's lair in Apocolypse Now.
Be prepared and don't drink the Kool Aid or become mesmerized by something shiny, stay focused.
God Speed, Ice

John has gone off the reservation.

#3028 5 years ago

Well I think I've learned something in these past 3 years. I can't speak for all, but I think a lot of people were dreaming of BBB. Where a game is made, it's playable and rare and good art and it was selling for $20k.

I figured what's the worse that happens especially when a Stern Tron LE is selling for $10k, wouldn't a custom limited pin from Jpop be worth at least that?

But I was figuring on the wrong thing, I was figuring on an actual game like BBB was not figuring on a game that might not exist. I never believed this could take 3 years and still NOTHING to show for it. I said to John you have nothing to show us and he got defensive but we are still waiting for any reveal of a flipping proto.

#3043 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Rumor is the video of a flipping game was part of the big reveal and he's just waiting on a few vendor parts...

Who thinks we will see a full production RAZA pin (not prototype) by the end of 2015?

How about the end of 2016?

John's original timeline was for the end of 2013.

#3062 5 years ago
Quoted from dgposter:

Does anyone on the blog remember getting this message after posting: "your comment is awaiting moderation"? I don't remember ever seeing this in the past, but I saw it tonight when I posted the following in the cute dog thread:
"Yep. Cute dog. Now where’s my effing game??? Seriously, John, your failure to communicate with the people who believed in you from the get-go is astoundingly disrespectful. I’m not sure what else to say other than I am no longer a believer. You have made this “journey” abysmal.".

your post never made it through. I made the last post asking "when are we getting a time line"?

#3063 5 years ago

I think John's name s mud and from here on out it gets more difficult for him as suppliers or contractors will be reticent to deal with him.

Doesn't look good.

I may need to start working on a Hitler video.

#3066 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Says he's just waiting on a few parts to post working videos in a blog reply I'm told

no blog reply I've seen.

What's stopping him from posting a picture of what he has, besides empty cabinet's which we have seen already.

It's one thing if he was on target and wants to keep some element of surprise, but now we are having full scale revolt and people want to see if he has anything resembling a prototype which he was supposed to have 18 month ago.

I don't care if there are parts missing he needs to show us something that would be called progress not any more art sketches. If he drags his feet any longer he will be showing it in court.

#3072 5 years ago

I've been text messaging john about my refund request, I'd be curious if he is ignoring the blog or not looking at the replies? I would assume he looks at the blog but deliberately is ignoring us.

It's interestig he is responding back and forth with me on text message but he's not really saying anything at least I know he read what I wrote.

He almost seems to be in denial. Like I asked him if will reveal anything and what is the timeline. I also reminded him he's 34 months into a 14 month project. He responded, that he thought I wanted a refund so why was I curious about the progress.

I said, give me the refund and I'll stop asking about the progress but while he has my money, I'm still an owner so I'd like either an answer or my refund.

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11
#3076 5 years ago

Even John's dog is embarrassed

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#3080 5 years ago

ice you're a lawyer, would you say John should refund me, if requested based on non-delivery?

#3082 5 years ago

I believe John has said there were dozens of engineers to assist at BW. I wonder if he has any engineers at all at Zidware.

#3089 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

OK, yet another Hitler video:
http://meemsy.com/v/26799

Very nice.

#3091 5 years ago

To think, I could have owned a Met pro, and a nice TZ (or IJ) instead of this bag of pop.

Don't know what I was thinking.

John likes to say how hard he works, but does he ask or care about how hard we also work to scratch together money to buy this pin?

#3095 5 years ago

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#3102 5 years ago

These two pictures remind me of John image-77.jpgimage-659.jpg

#3110 5 years ago

Count me in Ice. Time for John to get a 9-5 job, I'm not interested in paying his bills.

#3113 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I can meet with him as pinhead to help everybody and that is goal number 1 or I'll meet with his lawyer, A or B.
If he chooses B, he has chosen un wisely.

Of course I'm not avocating violence, this is just a funny scene from the TV show 'Fargo' which your post brought to mind.

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#3122 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

John just responded on the blog, and it was as a complete head against brick wall moment. unbelievable.

I just posted this in case it gets deleted.

This is a quote from you (John) 3 months ago:

”We did have a much more completed RAZA whitewood for expo, but we did not take anything as I do not do a booth and I do not show whitewoods other than to the owners.”

John, we are the ‘owners’ you gave reference to almost 3 months ago and yet you have not shown me anything. Is the internet broken?

This leads me to believe you don’t have even a RAZA whitewood.

Phil
.

#3128 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Gah. I was ready to go to bed and now I've got to sit here and watch the blog and this thread.
His second post was just as bad as the first. I think we're literally going to get a new blog update this week with the backglass in the cabinet.

Maybe he is moving forward after all?

Maybe he'll give us a 'Lebowski reveal' shortly?

#3131 5 years ago

here's John from the blog (5 months ago):

"we are working on a nice update for Expo. the artwork, design and other items are being finished.

I would say we are about 75% complete and I would like to do a nice reveal in October. Jpop"

#3150 5 years ago

I feel sorry for you Redeys.

We have spoken about this, and we both agree that we want our refund. We did not receive what we were promised by John and there is no evidence he is working on a pinball machine in a timely manner which he specifically spelled out in his contract. I contend that an empty cabinet does not constitute a full working pinball machine.

Here is the definition of breach of contract:
----------Breach of contract is a legal cause of action in which a binding agreement or bargained-for exchange is not honored by one or more of the parties to the contract by *non-performance or interference with the other party's performance. If the party does not fulfill his contractual promise, or has given information to the other party that he will not perform his duty as mentioned in the contract **or if by his action and conduct he seems to be unable to perform the contract, he is said to breach the contract.

John is in breach of contract.

I feel bad if some people think me and you asking for our money back is making this project in jeopardy, but that is not our fault that is totally on John. He can easily refund us, sell our spots if/when the game is done. If he's short on funds there is a thing called a bank or he can work like most of us do to pay our bills.

If john does end up in court he will lose, I don't see why he doesn't just refund our money which I requested the day after Expo when he didn't bring anything.

#3152 5 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

No doubt! I haven't checked this thread in a few weeks and amazingly there is still no progress to report.

not to beat a dead horse, but in August he said he was 75% done, and in October he said there would be a big reveal at Expo, then in November he said there would be a BIG reveal the first week of January.

Maybe he's using the old Russian calendar?

When Peter the Great became tsar, the Russians were using a calendar that was largely Julian but that was also based on Byzantine influences. That meant that the start of the calendar year was 1 September and not 1 January. That also meant that the years were numbered from the creation of earth and not the birth of Christ.

#3157 5 years ago

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#3178 5 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Although I feel for ya, if pinball and buying some high dollar toys was more important than planning ahead to even have 5% down for a house, you have bigger issues completely unrelated to the current sad state of affairs. I mean, if you had the game, you still wouldnt have the money to put down, so why even buy a toy if you had any notion of buying a house.

If John was not in breach of contract, he would have shipped a pin by now, and we'd be able to sell it. Also john has effectively eliminated our ability to sell our spots because he won't reveal anything.

No one will buy my spot or Redeyes spot and we have no actual pin to sell. If we have no pin, John has no reason to keep our money.

john was supposed to be shipping games by end of 2013. He's not even close to that date and he has not communicated why.

Redeyes wants his pin or his money, John can't have it both ways he wants the money and still non-delivery of pin.

#3187 5 years ago

Regarding Jpop, he made a promise in the contract to build a pin in a timely manner (his words) and we were expecting 14-20 months (contract). I didn't make up the timeline John did, we are already at 34 months and still not even a prototype.

#3192 5 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

He's the one who brought it up.. not me.

Just goes to show how out of touch John is, he's an egomaniac.

If I were in John's position, I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror if I had started this shitstorm. No one else is responsible, not Ben, not Redeys no one but John.

#3193 5 years ago

Besides, this is not investing in a stock or gambling at a casino, this is buying a product. If the product is not delivered it is a breach of contract, I posted that definition a while ago.

#3195 5 years ago

Funny look back at first page of this thread, was supposed to be a celebration of Jpop. He burned through a lot of good will in 7 months.

#3206 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Oh, this is as good a place as any to mention Andrew Heighway emailed me, my Full Throttle will be amongst the first batch produced starting in a few weeks.

well played.

#3208 5 years ago

I'm now locked out of John's blog so hopefully that means I'm getting a refund.

I will miss his dog.

#3212 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Really? Gtf out ... U paid money and he tossed u

Quoted from Shrub_Light:

Meaning you can't post or can't even get in to view it?

I can not log in.

I requested a refund weeks ago, have been asking him every other day since. I think he's cutting ties, hopefully this means I will be refunded shortly.

#3237 5 years ago

I don't want to be 100% doom and gloom, it's entirely possible he has a 95% plus working pin, which he shows shop visitors. He may be well along the way to production. He could show a Stern type reveal any day for all I know.

The problem is, I don't know it. I've asked him where it the pin? He says come to the shop. Guess what I can't take off, my wife would kill me if I said I'm going to Chicago to look at a pinball machine.

So what can he do? He can show us where he is. Guess what? Stern is able to do a Stern reveal because they have a track record of 30-40 pins to back it up.

Jpop is still talking as if he has a well formed pin in development. I hope he does, but to me, and I told him this, he is not reassuring his customers.

I'm not that religious, but there are many wise things said in the Bible, it says:

One does not light a lamp and then place it under a basket, instead one places the lamp on a stand so that all can see its light.

I told him this since Expo, when things started to simmer, I said f- all your secrecy, if you have anything that looks like a pinball machine you need to show it now, if you remain silent I am going to assume you have less than zero.

Plus he has his non disclosure BS, nothing has leaked from his blog, and still he won't show us owners anything. He's shown people his shop tour even some non owners, but wh won't show me anythig and I have paid for his f- en shop.

#3252 5 years ago

I know for fact he's not working all the time, he's posting pictures of his dog, how does that constitute working?

I think the Expo was the tipping point, but the dog picture was the straw that broke the camels back (for me).

I'm sure a lot of people on here work a lot (maybe more than John). It's kind of a slap in the face by him saying he works so hard, as if I don't? I worked extra shifts and weekends in order to afford to send John my money. I'm sure others have too.

#3274 5 years ago

StevenP

Much hope you are right, as you said JJP and Skit-B have same/similar issues, but I was seeing Woz and Predator working prototypes 18 months before release, John is not even at that early stage.

Maybe he's planning a Stern type release, totally finished game. I doubt it, my gut says RAZA is still many months from done.

Say what you want but he's totally behind schedule and needs to refund people he's in total breach of contract and refuses to refund Several people.

I may not have wanted a refund if he was showing progress he said he had a prototype for expo but didn't bring it because he didn't have a booth .

He said he was working on a photo tour for us owners but he hasn't shown anything

He said he would have a RAZA major reveal first week of January

I have an idea for his next pin

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#3277 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Can't refund money he doesn't have

That's speculation.

#3283 5 years ago

I'd be wary of any 'timetable' by John.

His first 'timetable' had the games shipping one year ago.

He said the first week of January would be a huge reveal of RAZA. It's past that date.

So let's pretend john comes out and says he'll be shipping the darn pins starting 14 - 20 months from today.

How can we trust him? he can't even keep a promise to reveal somethig by the first week of January, why did he even say that knowng he wasn't going to reveal anything?

Why did he say he was going to bring something to Expo when he didn't and when people understandbly went ape on him he said it was because he didn't have a booth and there would be a very nice reveal of MG in Dec and a virtual shop visit would be posted for us who can't visit?

#3300 5 years ago

Almost a year ago Skit-B said Predator was complete, and not one single person has claimed to have received one yet. Talk is cheap.

#3304 5 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

You know, I was talking to Terry from pinball life (who's really business smart). It's sort of amazing how many people think they can start a pinball company. Building A (single) pinball machine isn't the hardest thing in the world (but still hard).
Building a volume production pinball (with cost effective volume parts), without errors (because that costs you money), and sourcing vendors, and figuring out the space, and tools to build efficiently, and figuring out how you're going to fund buying all the parts once you're happy with the prototype is a whole different ball game. You make mistakes on one, no problem. You make a mistake after ordering a hundred+ parts, unless you have a way to rework those parts (which is costing you time) you're eating that cost too. I'm only speculating here, but maybe some of the delay isn't artwork. Maybe JPOP is trying to design innovative mechanisms, but after running them on test realizes they aren't going to hold up, or there's no way to effectively mass produce them.
Think about how many complaints Stern gets for minor things, and they're experts at what they do because they've been at it for 25 years. New mechanisms go through hundreds of thousands of hours to get data on reliability. Now imagine a brand new startup. Heck, Spooky is lucky the only major error he made was not installing a post next to the scoop (which is easily remedied, and was caught early in production).

Good point, great post.

I believe this is why I hung back from WoZ, not the only reason, but a big reason. But the early guys in were getting a big discount to be in early or take the risk. They were getting around $1000 discount maybe more depending on how you value the green trim.

But I was worried about delays or unknown problems like the light board issue it did end up having.

Similarly, with MMR there was also some or a lot of unknown possible issues, but the early adopters were not give much incentive to buy especially when the LE had it's legs cut out from under it when it was announced there would be a regular edition with the exact same everything (except trim and shaker). So the question becomes, why do I need to wait 18 months with my dick in my hand when I can just as well wait and see how they actually turn out.

It's not like MMR is exactly cheap or much discount like WoZ was. Now if MMR was pre-order for $6500 maybe that would have been an insentive (like WoZ).

#3361 5 years ago
Quoted from Pickenheim:

This is why we can not have nice things.
I have never met a negative pinballer and have been very happy with the hobby and everyone I have met through it. So this Chris F'r guy is from Coin Taker with the custom clock and all that? Can't keep it professional or at least in the Zidware forums? Well I have bought a lot of your kits and there has always been a problem with some of the items not matching especially S and CFTBL and bulbs that don't work as advertised, couldn't possibly work as advertised, and I overlooked it. And that is just simple bullshit.
Climb down off that rag.

what happened at the Zidware forum?

I'm locked out at the moment.

#3388 5 years ago

My disappointment over his latest announcment is that the Febuary reveal will be 4 months after the Expo which many people myself included were expecting much more than he brought there. I hope this later reveal is a lot more then he has been showing thus far.

Hopefully, the end result is a great game, it sure sounds great in theory.

One thing I'd like to see moving forward is more of a AMH type production/build some pre-orders but many people would be much more comfortable to be able to play the games (either at shows or at Pinsiders housee) and then be able to order when they are in production.

I am not sure this super limited-ness is too helpful, the more pins John sells will more offset the development and also the game will be limited due to the cost anyway. Can have a hard cap, but not necessarily 100% pre-order.

#3398 5 years ago

I know he's not got the overhead of Stern or JJP with dozens of employees and whatnot that cost lots of money.

But lest say if the costs to develop an entire platform, hardware, software interface and develop two games just thinking of MG and RAZA at the moment let's say a total of 175 games.

50+125 = 175 games.

If it takes him 4-5 years and whateve salaries and equipment, CAD computers and 3D printers, vendors etc..

Let's say $800k R&D and equipment, vendors etc.. plus overhead (for 4 years let's call that $400k-$500k) $1.2M-1.3M

That's $7K per pin with and average selling price per pin of $12K

So he should have excess money to pay for the actual parts and assembly of the pins let's say $4K with leftover $1k profit per machine or money held back to deal with warranty and code fixes or cost run overs.

So it looks fine if my numbers are correct, but if the R&D and overhead are more than that, the remainder to build the pins get smaller.

#3410 5 years ago
Quoted from FatAussieBogan:

How did you arrive with these specific numbers?

Just made up the numbers, worked backwards.

I am assuming he is not getting people to work for free or free rent, free utilities, free 3D printers etc..

I assumed John has collected ~$1,300,000 plus or minus. I figured he has to have spent less than $1.3M. So I just worked bacwards from there. Made up the costs, but working form what his bankroll is assuming he is not using any of his own money (I have no idea if is is or isn't).

I figure he has to have some money lying around so I'm figuring he has ~$300k left over. He has money due when he starts to build which I am counting for BOM and assembly and holdback for warranty.

Here's what I figure he has collected (plus or minus). I'm figuring most people have not paid in full.
30 MG x $14000 ($420k)
124 RAZA x $6500 ($806k)
100 AIW x $2000 ($200k)

Sum $1.42M

So I'm figuring he needs to have spent less than $1.42M

He has to pay for art, music, lawyers, code, web site, rent, utilities, patents, equipment such as computers, routers, 3D printers, materials and supplies, if he has any employees he should have to pay benifits as well as employee portions of SS and Medicare taxes.

John does seem like a very frugal guy and maybe running on a shoestring budget, but over 3-4 years he has to have spent down a lot of the $1.3M which is not really a lot of money if you think of the time factor as time = money.

#3413 5 years ago
Quoted from retro_p:

Aren't most people only paid up like halfway? Depending, I bet the other half could easily cover production.

For RAZA John has collected like 60-70% because he was collecting money on his accelerated timeline not his actual timeline.

If we leave off AIW a since I don't know what people have given for that title, he'd have somewhat over $1M collected which is not a lot to last between a third and a half a decade of development.

I know Skit-B and Wooly have done it for much less, but John seems to be more high end as well as using more proprietary components as opposed to an off the shelf Computer controller like P-Roc.

From what I've seen of John's work it's very high quality and not cost cutting in any evident way.

#3415 5 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

I can't speak for the current state of his business, but I know many people including myself that have volunteered for the sake of helping the cause. Others have been offered other monetary things that shall go unnamed. Zidware isn't your typical business like a Stern, it's a startup.

Good point. I'm hopeful for the absolute best. And that all the forthcoming reveals and soon shipment of MG games will reverse any current pessimism.

#3421 5 years ago

I bet John is taking a very small salary. There just isn't enough money in the pool to to towards a substantial salary. His payout is ownership of the company.

Most people starting a company will sacrifice their own capital and not take salary or take minimal salary to get their company off the ground.

#3428 5 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

If you can't pay #1 you're running a charity.

This is nonsense, people all through time work to build a buisness and don't take money as pay, they sometimes put in their own money to start a company.

One example is when Bill Gates and Paul Allen were starting Microsoft, they worked on the code for BASIC to run on Altair computer, they didn't pay themselves to work on that, in fact they didn't even have a contract, they sold the finished product, if they had not sold the product they would have worked for free, but that's not a charity. Look up what a charity is if you're unclear. john is not running a charity.

#3430 5 years ago

I'd be in favor of not posting any more on this thread for a while. It's all speculation, maybe Ice will have some concrete facts in a while.

I've spoken with John, he says the machines look fantastic or are comming along great. Whatever that means I don't know but I'd give him some slack until he fails to meet another deadline or some hard facts come to light.

-1
#3432 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

The difference between zidware and some other startups is the profit has already been realized. All the games are sold and almost all paid for with no standards or other model to generate more profit from.

This is the biggest problem with his model as well as the Nemo pin to be fair, that was sold out before it was produced.

I think there needs to be a reward if the game is good which would mean more sales down the road, let's say Stern makes AcDc and it is a great success and they can sell 6,000 units or more. If Stern had built 100 units only no more, they would have capped their upside greatly.

Also people can say the carry forward to future Zidware games, he can sell more of the later games but as we know from Stern or B/W or any company some games are better than others. What if his first game is super like MM but the second game is not as good like Gilligans Island. He's still capped out of selling his great game not meaning it will lead to big sales of other games. IMO the preferred method should be make the games first and sell as many as people want or can afford this rewards you for making great games, his current model rewards him for making any game good or bad it's no difference.

John is limiting the total inflow to under $2M for two machines which may end up just at a break even point or who knows could end up costing him money if he underestimated the time and complexity.

#3435 5 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

Apparently 5 minutes is what you mean by "a while".

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#3484 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Hey, I was super excited to be part of that club, and was for a long time, till basically a year passed the deadline and the narrative changed.
I agree with the comment above that this all came about at the height of the pinball bubble, and now this kind of stuff won't go over as easily, not at these prices, and not if product can't get out the door.

This sums it up for me as well as others I'm sure.

People have only a limited amount of money/space and time life is short.

This project is holding a spot (space) not a problem for some, as you can have a temporary game in the space but not ideal to keep a spot open for years on end.

Money is obvious as these are not cheap by any means, at the time many years ago, the priced were rising such as for BIB LE or Tron LE, MM and other games prices were higher than they are currently so a good deal back in 2012 may not be as good a deal in 2015.

Time, this is a major factor which was not adequately addressed, John made vague notions of the timeframe, the impression (for RAZA) was in the 14+ month timeframe. Now it looks more like 48+ months (I'm being optimistic if John can complete the RAZA delivey of games in the next 14 months that would put us at 48 months). If he's taking much more time than that were pushing 4.5-5 years which is significant time difference that we were led to believe.

In that time, people can have life changes such as getting married, divorced, having children, having children starting college, lost jobs (etc..). Some people are fine with giving the money and forgetting about it, but may not be the case for 150 individuals. John needs to accommodate change in life circumstances in relation to he's own change in timeline or lack of timeline. John has not made it easy or even possible to resell these spots (except at egregious loss of money, since he won't show the public anythig and the timeline is the same 14 months as it was from the start).

Also John needs to stop acting the part of the martyr, he's brought this on himself, we are not to blame for his problems or his under appreciation of the difficulties involved.

#3487 4 years ago

+1000

John always tells me he's doing well, the games look great, well under way.

This is fine if the idea is a Stern type reveal. I mean tell the theme, maybe show a few pictures then the game is shipping intact.

What I had thought and what John said from the beginning was the owners would get behind the curtain view of the games in progress and frequent updates and inputs.

I've not seen anything like that, even the Adobe video is vague at best. Great artwork, but I've yet to see a ball roll on a playfield a flipper flip a shot up a ramp or around a loop.

He's saving somethig for a big reveal but was that what he was selling us 3-4 years ago?

#3491 4 years ago

looks Great!!!!!!!!!!

#3526 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

My criticisms are because I know EXACTLY how to start and run a business and if I did it this way I'd be out of business. I can't think of another business or industry in the world where things are allowed to slide as much as they are in pinball. This is true of MANY pinball games that are long overdue, but this is the jpop thread so we're talking about him here.

I've spoken to Jonh about this, asking what's taking so long why isn't he moving forward? Why is he working on Kiss pinball or AIW if he has not completed the first two pins?

He told me he is building a company not just making a pinball machine. I think that is part of the problem, I believe John would be better as a design studio than as a full scale pinball company like Stern or JJP.

A full on pinball company needs employees, IT, HR, billing, customer service, sales, legal, bookkeeping etc..

John seems more in the mode of R&D or design but that's just the fun part of making a pinball machine.

Making a full company (like Stern) is very hard and John probably doesn't have a clue, when he worked at B/W all the company resourses were in place he was just an important actor, like in a movie, the actors are important but if you watch the credits of a movie there are hundreds of people involved (usually).

If John wanted to make a company like Jack did with JJP he went about it all wrong, he needs a whole lot more capital than $1M that might be the total take for the first 2 deposits, which is why he started trying to sell more pins such as AIW, but still I don't think john had come to realize how much he has bitten off.

#3530 4 years ago
Quoted from roc-noc:

Notice the coats and the cassette in John's hand. Conserving on heat for his workshop and still playing his boombox for shop music.
That's not a guy wasting customer money.

That's not a cassette, I believe it's a little known device called an iPhone.

#3531 4 years ago

MG looks sweet, if only my wife didn't have acess to our checking account

To be fair, I don't have any issue with what John is charging for these pins, I only have the problem with paying in advance because:
A) I don't know if they ever will be built
B) I don't know if I will love the game play, probably I will, but if it playes like a game I don't care for, I don't want to spend that kind of money.

I am completely in favor of John and his work and hope he makes many more pins going forward and hope someday he will get closer to the selling model of JJP or AMH where there will be both pre-order and post production sales.

#3540 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

4 years and thats it?? OMG Metallica hand drawn art blows that shit out of the water in a month or less. I hope you guys get your moneys worth, but looks like you got ripped the hell off.
So underwhelming....

But, Met pro has peg legs and fiddley clasps. Did you see the hinges on MG?

#3587 4 years ago

I don't think we should proclaim these projects dead, to quote The Big Lebowski movie :"nothing is fucked here Dude"

There is no proof that John won't produce these games, the more updates the better.

#3592 4 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Looks like it's just that Adobe video we saw a few weeks ago.

That John, he's really doing a slow roll (as the say in poker).

#3612 4 years ago

There is a clear difference between making a single 'playable prototype' and actually producing pins and as far as I can tell John does not have a playable prototype that he is willing to show to the owners.

#3626 4 years ago

I think at this point I'd rather have AIW than RAZA since its less likely to become a collection of random ideas like RAZA seems to have become.

#3648 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Unfortunately, I agree. Several pinball startup asshats ruined it for a lot of people.

As I see it, John may actually deliver, but it's unnecessary for him to collect 4+ years in advance of production. Lots of this stuff could have been fermenting in the background for 2-3 years and he should have been starting to collect money about now imo.

#3682 4 years ago
Quoted from horseypin:

Playfield is very good, like it! Now, if I knew where the ramps & bumpers were I'd be knocking my own version up, lolol.
Just for fun too. -ponypony
» YouTube video

Is that supposed to be some kind of reveal? It looks like a computer representation.

this is from 3 years ago. Where is the whitewood already?

I think John sorely misses Ben:

... don't see every day, live pinball design, RIGHT NOW, as John Popadiuk, Ben Heck and staff work on the whitewood of their Ben Heck's Zombie Adventureland ...
heckstream.jpg

#3731 4 years ago

I also see that it's kind of a joke now with zombie bowling. That I supposes was part of the original promo but it's not as much of killing zombies fighting or running from zombies another thing to see them depicted playing bowling or maybe zombies with hula hoops or who knows what will end up in there. Either way, it is what it is, but I just don't care for zombies bowling unless it's in a silly jokey movie.

#3777 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

This "no refunds after a certain date" thing makes no sense. That date should have slid out with the production schedule. "No refunds after games enter production" or "No refunds two weeks after the first working prototype is shown".

image-80.jpg

#3782 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I think unproven & unlicensed can work if all these elements come together:
1- Excellent art package (comparable to the favorite B/W games)
2- Excellent audio package (catchy music & experienced voice-over actors)
3- A really cool toy or feature that's compelling, unique, and looks fun to interact with
4- "Reasonable" price
IMO, AMH is missing 1 & 2, and WOOLY is missing 2,3 & 4. If a boutique can nail 1-4, I think they could have excellent sales of an original title.

*5) reasonable timeframe.

I suppose if you have most of the other criteria may be ok, but having money tied up *while* waiting is asking for failure.

#3794 4 years ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Oh dear Jesus.... the art was criticized on the RAZA blog.....
Taking bets on how many revisions of the 'ray gun girl' we are now going to see.....

What'd they say?

#3817 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

here's the translite at expo, for reference. So in 4 months we went from googly eyes to evil eyes.

I do think the evil eyes look better.

#3856 4 years ago

image-151.jpg

#3898 4 years ago

I'm sure MG is going to be epic, and some people $17k isn't an issue. I swear I was at this one guys mansion where he had a room that was a full Irish Pub complete with beer taps, whatever you would see in a high end pub was in this room. And just as a decoration he had a brand new or classic Harley Davidson bike and I mean a high end bike. It was not for anything but decoration. So there are people that could buy $17k pins and not even blink.

But to me, that represents Tron pro, IM VE and STLE (three actual pins new delivered).

#3942 4 years ago

another problem for people essentially paying in advance many years in advance for these pins. Is that we don't know what's at the end. just some generic Zombie/Amusement park theme and some type of 'Magic' theme.

It's still not clear to me what these pins will play like. Also while RAZA PF looks cool, it is very zany, meaning cute or not at all serious such as Zombies bowling or dunk a zombie booth, at the beginning of the project it was not as clear that this would not be a serious pin. Some people may not like zany pins.

Some may prefer MG or AIW or RAZA. but when John just locks you into a pin you have to take the result. If for example one pin turns out fantastic and one pin turns out so-so. Much like anyone like Stern it's hit or miss if you will like it, maybe you like Met but don't like WWE. But if you just signed up at the beginning without seeing or knowing what the pin will play like, it's a crap shoot.

I believe the least should be a flipping prototype like TBL or WOOLY for example before they start asking for money.

#4006 4 years ago

Looks great, I have never seen a cabinet that fine.

But John should refund people who want out. These pins are 2 years behind schedule, if the shipped today they're 2 years late.

1 week later
#4012 4 years ago

John picked the shortest month of the year for his deadline so I guess in 10 days or less you will see a fully built RAZA.

Loophole alert, did he say this Feb?

#4051 4 years ago
Quoted from DevilsTuner:

Really hoping for a interactive loader of some sort. Even if it just picks up the ball and moves it like the robot for NES did.

That'd be cool. But talk about stop and go.

image.jpg

#4085 4 years ago

If I were an investor, I'd want to see cash flow annalysis, and I'd want to understand how/why the initial $1,000,000 wasn't enough to get the job done, why would I want to throw more money at this project? There's got to be a carrot at the end of the stick in other words, there has to be a promise that there will be a full fledged company building pin after pin. And IMO until John starts building one pin even, it's hard for me to imagine there will be any new investors.

#4149 4 years ago

Looks neat but I hope that's not considered the February reveal.

#4172 4 years ago