(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..

By iceman44

5 years ago

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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (2 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (2 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (2 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (2 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (2 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (2 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#9251 4 years ago

This appears to be nothing more than a typical custom fabrication situation. You (pinsiders) acting in the aggregate (like a business) contracting out to fabricate a known qty of an tem at an agreed upon price. If the 'you' isn't a big enough number, the setup costs of the fabricator make it infeasible. In which case, nothing happens, no harm, no foul. If the 'you' is big enough, the fabricator fires up the line at a locked-in profit (assumes the fabricator knows their stuff and how to cost and price properly). Virtually no risk to the custom fabricator. If the fabricator knows their stuff there is also minimal risk to 'you'. Of course, this assumes the fabricator is a viable on-going concern, that they do know their stuff and that on-going support is not necessary. I'm not sure how one could possibly make that call without knowing who the 'fabricator' is and having some time for due diligence.

#9333 4 years ago
Quoted from deeproot:

as an attorney I am always concerned (from an ethical standpoint) when a 'client' brings me a contract or settlement agreement with a no-sue covenant. Most jurisdictions either do not permit this, or severely restrict its enforcement.

This was my question as it appears to lack any semblance of quid pro quo. If you sign away your right to sue, in return you get...what? Maybe, if enough other people sign and pony up the $, you may be able to purchase a game at an unknown price (AIW, RAZA), if the game is ever made? Would that pass the consideration hurdle for contract validity?

#9352 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Smart people know when to cut their losses.

Agreed. But I must be missing something here. I assume people in on AIW or RAZA were in because that is the game they wanted. So the answer is to fund a game (MG) that you did not want at a cost of $10-12k so that you may get the game you really want at an unknown cost to be delivered at an unknown date in the future?

#9465 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There IS an investor. One we are very lucky to have.
I'll let him reveal himself. He's doing it for love of pinball. Who else is gonna jump into this shitstorm?
Option B. Agree to this and you get a pinball machine. Investor is risking over 1 million bucks

Ok, I'll bite. How is this investor risking over $1mm? What am I missing here? He/she is not buying any of the assets nor assuming any of the liabilities, correct? I can't imagine the IP costing anything. Buying the customer base? (sure, done all the time when there is a revenue flow but that is not the case and it's not like one couldn't capture that same base for a few bucks). So where is the $1mm being spent? Second, I assume if he/she is risking the $, they expect a return on their investment. If not, if they are simply a philanthropist, why not just make a gift to everyone who has paid a deposit to make them somewhat whole?

Now let me be clear, I have nothing against the 'investor'. In fact, I don't understand the anger towards them. Seems like they see an opportunity to make a few $ and have priced the games accordingly (including the need to cover any credits for previous payments to JPOP. Again, I don't blame them for doing that. If I take my car to a mechanic and they don't fix it so I have to take it to another garage, it's not like the new mechanic is going to give my a discount because I wasted $500 with the first mechanic)

#9683 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It's a good comment and question.
I guarantee you he's not delusional and might be the only guy or at least best guy to pull this off.
Give it a couple of days and I think questions will be answered, shit is being put together while the ink is drying.
Then if you don't like it you can roast him
I seriously doubt he's doing this for the $$$ potential, if so, I would question his business acumen which i know to be stellar!

If I were in on AIW or RAZA, this would seal the deal. The fact that Iceman says that he would question this guys business acumen if he were in it for the money suggests there is no money to be made. So he will stay in this losing proposition for over 5 years because he is a nice guy? Even if true, a lot can happen in five years from personal issues, to health issues to being hit by the proverbial bus. At least if he were in it to make $$$, it would suggest this is a viable business model and if something were to happen to this guy, someone else would want to step up and carry it forward.

#10475 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There is NO MONEY LEFT, unless you count remaining deposits.
As for John and financial accountability, I will be banging the drum all day every day to get the numbers and where exactly our money went.
And if you will pay for the forensic accounting work I'd love to see the results. I offered to do it originally and was refused. Tax returns and financials now.

I think this is a source for much of the angst. You state emphatically that there is no money left. You then state that your offer for an audit was refused. This, obviously, begs the question of how you would know there is no money left. I'm sure you can see how people might be puzzled over this apparent contradiction. Add to this your qualifier "unless you count remaining deposits" and it really gets muddy. If all the deposits remain, then, technically, all the money is available. If 75% remain, then people can get their $.75 on the dollar. What does that mean?

#11055 4 years ago

I always like it when two people on opposite side are able to agree. It does my heart good!

Skatethatmachine posted "RAZA owners who do not want a MG, or a MG Pro are still left 99% out in the cold; no game, no refund."

WCBrandes posted "I need to bridge and talk to all the 17 or so people who paid this much for the game in the first place. Once they are satisfied (no one else) with what can be done we will then be bringing MG to a more palpable price." (Please pay attention to the "NO ONE ELSE")

So what do you say now? I can't be the only one feeling it? GROUP HUG!!

#12589 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

I would think it might work something like right of first refusal. Using some round numbers, for example:
Game 1 is made and ready to ship, Owners 1, 2 and 3 have put in $5k deposits, and the game final price is $15k.
Owner 1 and 2 pass and want refunds, owner 3 says he's in, and pays his $10k and gets his game, Owner 1 & 2 get their 5k back.
Pintasia/wcbrandes said 7 days/500 posts ago.... as games get made, the $ will go to the folks who want refunded or they'll get their games, and he will take his game last (i.e. after everyone else is made whole or either a delivery or refund).

OK, I admit I may be dense here, so someone help me out. Game is made and sold for an additional $10k in cash. That cash is then refunded to two owners. Everyone is whole. Correct? However, doesn't that assume the game costs nothing to make? Isn't the formula more like, the game is made for $9k (maybe more due to the limited run and custom parts). That game is sold to owner 3 for $10k, leaving $1k for owners 1 and 2 to split (so $500 apiece). After 10 games are made and sold owners 1 and 2 finally get their refunds. What am I missing?

1 week later
#14253 4 years ago

There are a lot of reasons some advocate bankruptcy including fair market valuation of the assets, distribution of proceeds from the sale of the assets to vendors and people who paid in, transparency of the financials, potential to pierce the corporate veil, etc. One, that I haven't seen (but may have missed) is the ability to separate the assets, including IP. While a judge may prefer fewer transactions, it could well be that the value of the IP is maximized by breaking it up. An established manufacturer may have no interest in MG, but thinks AIW is a marketable concept and, given the apparent lack of customization, could be brought to market in a cost effective manner. So they are willing to purchase AIW assets while Bill can scoop up and go crazy with MG.

#15051 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It wouldn't feel like a victory to me, but rather a really dark mark on the hobby if he actually did jail time for that.

Interesting. I'm curious as to what others think. It is understood that if he were to do jail time, it would be the result of some pretty insidious deliberate acts on his part. He won't go to jail for simply being a bad businessman. So if he were convicted and the charges were significant enough for him to actually do time, is that really a "dark mark" on the hobby. I admit I am new to this so maybe John is a demigod, whose fall from grace is devastating. There are prominent people from almost every industry who have done bad things and been convicted and served time. Yet, the industry seems to do just fine. I realize this fiasco has dampened the passion of many; however, would the fact that John does time make more people leave the hobby and fewer enter? Since Aurich is a level-headed, elder statesman, I am guessing others feel the same..while I couldn't care less if he does time or not. Hence, my question

1 month later
#17067 4 years ago
Quoted from AliciaC:

At this stage I think we will reach our "Million Lines of Ink" challenge I set for myself, and to work as hard as I can for my owners. Jpop

Isn't this indicative of the underlying issue? A challenge of 'make the best pinball machine ever' or even 'introduce a new design aesthetic' or 'bring innovation and designs never seen before' or 'manufacture 100 games in 6 months' are all reasonable challenges to set for a pinball company. But number of lines of ink? Really? Why a million? Why not 900k or 1.1mm? Any one of us, given enough time, could create a million lines of ink. There is no relationship between lines of ink and quality of the end product. It is all about a meaningless metric tied to a process as opposed to an end product. What's next? 'I just hit my goal of producing 100 foam board layouts'?

1 month later
#17915 4 years ago

There once was an old pinball guru
Who had magical thoughts and design voodoo
He said "Give me your money"
and I'll turn out a honey!"
But now we all know he'll just screw you

11 months later
#19638 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm just trying to wrap my legal and accounting brain around this and figure out what the angle is

The only viable answer would seem to depend on volume. They may look at Spooky's pricing, compare it to JJP and BM66 and calculate a healthy per unit profit margin. If they can move a few thousand produced at an AMH cost yet priced at JJP/BM66, it becomes a reasonable investment.

As someone who has watched the drama across all manufacturers over the past few years, I have learned one thing. Pinball manufacturing is a very deceptive business. On the one had, anyone can make a single pinball machine for not a lot of money. On the other hand, mass production (say 3000 units) is extraordinarily difficult and takes a lot of time, people, $ and process to do it.

Maybe they have that expertise and/or access to it, but certainly not for the faint of heart. Seems like starting with the JPOP weight hanging around your neck only makes it that much more difficult.

3 weeks later
#20223 3 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Why do people want rare things? Seriously....I don't get it.
I get wanting "things"....I like "things". Now some of the things I want also happen to be rare and they tend to cost a lot more. However, I don't want them because they are rare. So what's up with that?

In a word ego.

That having been said, I used to collect large size US currency. Virtually every old note is rare (less than 100 for higher grades based on FR #). However, there are certain notes (google 1896 $5 Educational note) that are just damn beautiful and, as a result, they have a much higher value than much scarcer notes. It seems most collectibles, including cars, currency and pinball machines are that way. While some may value scarcity, by itself, many more value beauty (and/or playability). This translates into not only higher demand but also people tending to hold onto the note longer, thereby reducing supply. My advice to those who pay up for scarcity alone with the hope of making lots of $...flip fast.

1 month later
#20379 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Also, why in the blue blazes did John hire a programmer in ENGLAND?

You get a whole lot more mileage from the "your (pay)check is in the mail excuse" ?

#20380 3 years ago

The old "things are progessing much slower due to the language barrier of working internationally" excuse?

3 months later
#23083 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The lucky owners of these games can pour as much money as they want into trying to turn them into actual working games. The idea that any "crowdsourcing" would go beyond that immediate crowd is fairly laughable.

Agree and, in fact, seems like the potential pool is even smaller.

There are about 20 games? It appears most owners are interested in the unique investment aspect as opposed to making it a great playing game. Right now, it is the Winchester Mystery house of pinball...ramps that lead nowhere, areas that are inaccessible, etc. Seems like that adds to the whimsy, story and, therefore the value of the game. I'm not sure rebuilding the game based on JPop's perceived vision helps the value of the game. That's why I would be surprised if many owners wanted to invest additional $ in the game. In fact, if I were an owner, not only would I not put any $ into the game, I would love it if the other 19 did, so that my game remained the only original pristine example.

1 year later
#24075 1 year ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

From reliable sources in the industry and I will leave it at that.
Don't ask who that might be because I am not saying.
Either believe it or not, I really don't care.
If I am wrong, so be it.

I heard from a reliable source in law enforcement that my neighbor was into bestiality. Don't ask me to reveal the source but let's just say there are lots of scared pets running around the neighborhood. Take it for what it's worth, believe it or not. If I'm wrong...oops, sorry

Damn! I can't tell you how sick I am of this type of crap. If you know something to be true, state the source of the information. If you can't provide the source, then close your pie-hole. You may be surprised how many people's lives, businesses etc. get screwed as a result of unsubstantiated rumors. I can't tell you how often I've seen these tricks initiated by competitors and people playing an angle. Create FUD, pump and dump, all variations of this same theme. I'm sure you are a great guy and this is not your typical modus operandi, so I'm not singling you out. You just touched a nerve...I apologize for that.

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