(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..

By iceman44

5 years ago

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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (3 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (3 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (3 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (3 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (2 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (2 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (2 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (2 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#9395 4 years ago

This "deal" looks much better when viewed through the proper lenses....


#9680 4 years ago

Wondering what kind of extreme level of Stockholm Syndrome would lead anyone to spend $0.01 more on this project even if Bill Gates was the Mystery Man.

Also struck by the similarities to the old SkitB thread: a few people with "insider info" condescendingly telling everyone else how "things are really gonna be better" and "give it some more time"....and lording their insider m oblige over the rest of the peons....

"For the good of pinball?"

The best thing "for pinball" will be the complete and utter destruction of any scheme, where people pay for products that haven't been built yet, whether it's SkitB, jpop, DP or JJP.

#9713 4 years ago

Even if this fantasy was reality, would anyone want this $16K game?

Even folks who would ONLY need to pony up another $10K?

Is this where you'd place your $16K of pinball money?

I'm thinking for $16K someone could own a Pat Lawlor JJP#3 and a Stern Game of Thrones pin...
or a MB and a MM....
or a ST Pro, ACDC Pro and a Met Pro!

Hard to imagine any sane scenario where that $16K goes to this fiasco.....

#9818 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

I've been reading this thread with interest. Wow, has it taken off since that bizarre email/proposed new agreement from Jpop!
I paid Jpop $20,245.00 in total- $15,995.00 for MG (full payment) and $4,250.00 towards RAZA. mostly via PayPal

First, condolences.

Second, I would direct you to the parallel SkitB thread, specifically, many of those that were similarly scammed have had success reversing charges with pp/their funding CC companies - even though the charges occurred pretty far in the past.

An earlier post quoted John as asking for paypal payment as recently as 10 days ago, so it's certainly feasible that account is still active....

You may have already covered all this ground, but wanted to mention it had you (wisely) avoided that train wreck....

#9852 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Blaming Pinside is like blaming Facebook for cyber bullying.


However, I see the point that some folks might think that when Pinside creates "manufacturer" forum status and allows companies like this and SkitB to have special moderated threads for "news", etc, etc it gives the air of credibility.

I agree 100% that the fraudsters are to blame.... but I also heap a dose of blame towards some of the people that decided to VOLUNTARILY take up the mantle of CFO (chief fanboy officer) and pump the projects. It perpetuated the fraud....

#9902 4 years ago
Quoted from shakethatmachine:

I'm staying in the hobby, but I'm out on pre-orderers.


Whats the WORST pin-related drama we've seen when you exclude prepayment?

late code? lol- that "drama" probably feels like a paid vacation compared to the guys who lost money on:
Skit-B fiasco
WoZ -Bumper fiasco
This fiasco

Stay in the hobby. Buy real machines when they are ready to ship. Crisis resolved.

#9918 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

why don't the people that pre-ordered one or more games unite as a group and come up with an alternative plan to get the games made?

The problem is (IMO) any "plan" would require nearly starting from scratch from a funding standpoint...

I mean, what are the real "assets" that a new investor is even acquiring?

Some pretty artwork?

It doesn't seem there's much that couldn't just be replicated by a new entity- so not much value in "acquiring" anything from John. The flipside is- all the deposit money that was collected appears to have been completely pissed away....

So there's near-zero motivation for someone to come in and clean-up this mess and take ANY of the liability onto themselves... So the best bet is the folks that lost money might get their game for near-cost, or at a slight discount from someone walking in off the street.

Its hard to see ANY happy ending here..... no matter how many times iceman posts into the thread.

#10261 4 years ago

Interesting reading....

In all the excitement of the new deal, did I read correctly these 2 VERY SMALL issues yet to the resolved:

There's no Programmer?
There's no Manufacturer?
There's no final Prototype?

OH well... those are minor points I suppose.... The really hard stuff (art) is covered, everything else is easy...Carry on!

#10277 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I bet there are many pending lawsuits. Maybe, those in already will get bought out with the left over money John isn't talking about.

Yes, I've been wondering some of the same things...

Why is the ONE thing everyone seems to believe from this guy who's proven to be a world-class liar, is that he's out of money for refunds?

So, NOW is the time to take him at his word?

Fool me once.....

<insert Prez Bush video....>

#10315 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

We will have a working game pretty soon

So you guys are ALMOST caught up to where SkitB was... but not quite....

#10323 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

To be fair, wcbrandes has something SkitB didn't have. Really deep pockets.

So he's going to "guarantee" it?

#10406 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Maybe people didn't actually read this part Bill.
You guys are a non profit venture

Cool idea... I think Skit-B was doing the same thing.... not-for-profit-ish.

#10408 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

John is going down one way or another

How so?

Under the plan you clearly endorse and are championing here, does John not get retained in a (paid) consulting role?

Not sure how that is remotely the same as him being buried in litigation and declaring bankruptcy (with no corporate protection either)....

#10412 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Funny and but not original. See a few posts up

Correct.... unfortunately nothing about this story is original (or funny for that matter). The real question is will people find a way to stop the repeating cycle of fraud here....

Quoted from iceman44:

Crawl on back over to the Predator threads

fair point... is *IS* becoming increasing hard to tell the difference....

#10477 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You are amazing Hilton, especially coming on the heels of your ridiculous non stop promotion of Predator. Haven't you learned anything. Get your facts straight
This is not that. We don't need to be saved by you but thanks for your concern

Well the irony is even richer with YOU criticizing Whysnow in this thread.

If he was the Prime Sycophant of the Predator thread, it certainly isn't difficult to find his alter ego in this thread....

Of the last 400 posts here, how many would you guess are yours? 50, 100?

#10508 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm heading out to the beach where i should have been for the several hours.

Good idea... 16 posts on the last PAGE alone... you're going to burst a blood vessel.

Pretty sure everyone understands your position on the topic...lol....


#10683 4 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

What Jpop has done is 100% criminal, poor to no records, owes everyone, no money for refunds, and the threat of bankruptcy if you don't sign this bullsh*t.

Criminal charges, possibly some time in a facility, and restitution are the only viable options to make him pay.

A criminal case is no easy thing to prove.... look no further than the SkitB case where on top of all the stupidity HERE, he falsely claimed to have a license!
No Criminal finding.

Oh, I'm sure you all have a great chance at some serious civil suit, but don't expect him to do jailtime....

But why are we talking about ANY kind of punishment, Hell, under the PinTastic plan, not only wont he be punished, but he will be employed, sent around the country to shows and generally be REWARDED for his failure...

#10715 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

Whoever builds the game could easily sell 1,000 MGs = $ 1M in profit.


*IF* they build one of these (big butt.... like jayloX2 big)


It would have to compete with some of the best games EVER for that price.... made by the best programmers EVER.... manufactured by ACTUAL companies....

So fast forward 2 years, you're talking about competing with JJP after they have 3 or 4 games under their belts.... and Stern who might finally innovate a bit by then... and have titles like Star Wars, Game of Thrones, etc, etc out?

Sorry, but there's no way in hell this game is sold to anyone that's not being held hostage today with jpop money...

#10756 4 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I remember the day the MG spots became available, advertised on RGP. When I looked there were 6 spots left out of the original 13.
I remember thinking $16k is a huge amount for a pinball. But with only 13 ever made, it could make sense. .

It didn't make "sense" if you were thinking of the machine ever being worth close to $16k on its own.

It only made sense (which I would dispute) if you were greedily thinking, "heh... Who cares what it plays like....Only 13.... I can resell this for a fortune."

And so they bought into the worst part of pinball, the speculative "investor" instead of the hobbiests.... Who DOES makes game for hobbiests? Well, Spooky certainly for one....

#10891 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Good luck trying to reason with the horde of armchair quarterbacks here.

Great thinking....

Because LESS critical scrutiny and MORE mindless cheer-leading has worked SO WELL on these failed projects to date....

#10960 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I think its a beautiful game and

Nice photos.... I agree, artistically, beautiful.

To me it looks like it has potential to be a very nice $6k-$8k game (which is in NO WAY a slam, it would put it in very good company!)

But, the most expensive game EVER sold (nearly by double)?

Not to rain on the parade and excitement over the ramps getting done, but:

Nope, never, no way. ;-(

#10964 4 years ago
Quoted from CoinTaker:

What thread has the record for most posts in a weekend?

20,000 by Christmas.

#10992 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Lowpeg. We are not going to commit to anything here yet. I am not the one who pissed anyone's money away ..... I can do is try my best.

Sorry, my ire wasn't intended to target you.

That would be like criticizing the junior officers on the Titanic for not getting people on the lifeboats fast enough! You are clearly trying to resolve a disaster that was NOT of your making.

However, you never get a chance to make another first impression. The first impression of this venture was that ill-conceived initial announcement.... The infuriating items in that note have been well-covered here, but it certainly started things off on uneven footing.

I hope for the best for the folks swindled in this deal.... Whether that means some new joint venture remains to be seen I suppose....

#11002 4 years ago

Question for the pinside attorneys:

Let's assume at least SOME people will file suit against jpop (some have already?)

If he's as broke as many would have us beleive, that alone might push him into bankruptcy....

In that likely event, wouldn't any transfer or sale of assets to another entity be significantly impacted? It seems like this could likely fall into the definition of Fraudulent Conveyance?

Isn't it likely THIS (and not the whole "we can't have jpop DISTRACTED by lawsuits") is really whats driving them to try to force people to sign away their right to sue?

#11125 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

John shows ZERO remorse
Still thinks he owes us nothing
I want an explanation and answers from him. Where are the financials and where did our money go

Differences of opinion aside, as a pinhead, I certainly feel horrible for the situation you guys are in.

You must be chomping at the the bit to PUNISH John, but at the time time trying to counter that instinct with the desire to find SOME WAY to get SOMETHING for all your time/money.

Easier for us outsiders to lean heavier on the PUNISHMENT aspect.....

#11127 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Seems like the right way to do this is for someone to:
- Step in, and buy Zidware's assets outright
- Pay off the vendors owed
- Refund all the preorders
- Finish MG
- Build it and sell it.
Who's up for that?

All that's missing from your equation is a $ followed by several commas

#11164 4 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

Wait a horrible way to end a career.

Well, given his actions, I'd rather see it end here than continue on as a paid consultant...

I was feeling a small shred of sympathy for the guy..... UNTIL I saw the email that he was still trying to collect prepayment money as of a couple weeks ago.

Yep, game over after that.

There's no "he had the best of intentions, but got in over his head and just couldn't honestly make it work" bullshit after than revelation.

None if that. Straight-up scumbag status now.

#11176 4 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

WCS, ToM, CV, and TOTAN are all A list games. It's crazy to suggest that John isn't incredibly talented in pinball design. He's obviously just as incompetent in regards to business as he is talented at design, however.

Good games , very good games....(not great games, IMO).

One thing they have in common - to me- (I hesitate to say flash over substance) but they are stronger on art than game-play....

#11228 4 years ago


Stern hire Zombieyeti and puts him in charge of art for Game of Thones or SW or Jaws....


JJP hires him and they won't have the hot mess they had completely redoing TH artwork on their next title...

Becuase right it seems like folks are trying to build a pinball company around gorgeous artwork....

That's like picking out a wedding dress THEN going out to try to locate a wife....

#11324 4 years ago

I was just thinking....

perhaps one of the contributing factors to Jpops failure was the lack of proximity to a horse racing track?

#11436 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

I posted this at some earlier point in the thread:

Original code was built on PROCs. New board has libraries that make it able to run the same code.

He was sweating the cost of a proven board (what is the wholesale price?, $250 in volume maybe) for a $16k game.....?

#11470 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

What I don't get is... with the advancements in pin games like PinballArcade now.. and the proven market for it.. why don't these idea people focus on making a VIRTUAL game first...

Some might argue that SkitB abd Jpop did indeed sell a "virtual game"

But, seriously, Ive thought the same thing.... as a Virtual cabinet owner, Ive wondered why they havent leveraged the platform for development, game testing, rules testing, etc.

On a related note, there are also some gifted folks that are creating original designs and tables in that community.... it seems like there might be some room for some cross-over there as well.

#11485 4 years ago
Quoted from bounoun:

Is it ? I am being serious. Lets say I start a legit company. I ask money for a game that will be delivered in 2 years. Lets assume I raise 2 million. I get a big office, pay myself a reasonable salary (80k a year) and hire a bunch of expensive programmers. 1 year later the game has completely failed and there is 0 money left. Was is left to show is a few million lines of codes and an alpha state game.
Did I scam people or just had a poor business plan to start with ? What would be criminal of failing a business ? I am not trying to defend JPOP in anyway, but wasn't this mess a failure from the start ?

I've been thinking the same.

The big difference with SkitB is he actively misled and misrepresented the license issue. This might not be so clearcut.

Back when the SkitB issue was hot I recall chatting with a friend who works in the local DA's office... I explained some of the issue and he was FAR more incredulous that so many people would ship off money (some writing checks!) to SkitB then he was at SkitB's failure.

Guess he just doesn't understand pinball economics...

#11638 4 years ago
Quoted from PINTASIA:

So for those people who are the naysayers and can't stand the fact that someone has truly stepped up out of the goodness of their heart to help the pinball community and want to just try to dig up stuff to hurt Bill and Pintasia...stop, just stop.


#11644 4 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

There is a certain place in hell for people who make a post quoting 1204 words from a previous post.

lol! Yes!

I feel the same way about people who insist of 15 line email signatures that are longer than most the messages they send....

#11807 4 years ago

I'm not sure I see any problems with having someone involved in a "Global Ponzi Empire" a key person in the formation of a new pinball company?

After reading this, hiring folks from the local horse racetrack (comparatively) seems legit.

#11937 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

. Bill Brandes is the only hope these guys have to see a Jpop pinball game, and as long as they haven't asked for money from the preorder/owners you need to cool it with the conspiracy theories.

How is asking if a key person in this new venture is the same person connected to a massive ponzi scheme? ESPECIALLY give that they were trying to leverage the reputation of these new players to instill new confidence.

Seem like a very simply allegation to correct if untrue.

One of PinTastic's alter egos is surely reading this thread. If baseless, I wonder that it's not been refuted already?

#11992 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I do not know what Sabrina did in her past life however she has nothing to do with control of this company as I am the shareholder

Nothing to do with control of the company?

You can understand how some might be concerned though when you listed her as responsible for Finance and Operations?

Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

Dear Fellow Zidware Customers,
Pintasia Design Inc. is the Licensee to MG, RAZA and AIW. We want to share with you who we are and why we are here.
Pintasia is a newly formed company set up to bring the best talent in all necessary facets of pinball to produce extraordinary games ready for production:
· Business Development - Bill Brandes: business restructuring, real estate holdings, commodities, investment fund
· Finance & Operations - Sabrina Wei: investment banker, business consultant, Deloitte & Touche alumni

Quoted from wcbrandes:

I do not know what Sabrina did in her past life

Assumed you would since you were planning to "bring the best talent in all necessary facets of pinball"

Again, perhaps shes not this infamous Sabrina that others have identified as a serial fraudster. If so, it would probably be in her best interest to clear that up.... If it's really just a coincidence.

#12101 4 years ago

"Hey, this new option is a super-long-shot but MAYBE it will payoff"
"IF we go home now, we might just get pennies on the dollar, but maybe, just maybe, if we hang on there's a chance"
"at this point, what do we have to lose"
"who cares if the finance persons background is filled with fraud, THIS TIME, it will be better"

As an outside observer, you could seemingly lift many of these wishful comments right out a compulsive gambling recovery meeting.

This concept that - even though ALL logical evidence leads to failure - just ONE MORE bet might turn it all around - is sad....


#12157 4 years ago
Quoted from lost8ball:

I'm not gonna lie - my whole takeaway on your post was "lowepg's been to compulsive gambler meetings?" I bet you a dollar you're going to regret admitting that.

lol- if that was your WHOLE take-away, then I failed.

I'm not a gambler... if I were, you'd probably see ME on the hand-wringing-side of the TH, TBL, Predator, MG drama....

I've also never been held hostage, but I can also connect some of the behavior seen here to Stockholm Syndrome...

#12194 4 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Who exactly is this Zane D. Smith, and how did he get involved? Is he a friend of someone with money at stake? Do we even know if he is a competent attorney?

Well, a quick google search reveals he has NOT been convicted of mass business fraud and running a ponzi scheme, so right there he has climbed to one of the more competent folks involved in this so far...

#12204 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I just refuse to expend 1 more dollar or calorie thinking about what JPOP needs, wants, says or does.
I'm DONE with him.

Are you truly though?


Pintasia Design Inc. is the Licensee to MG, RAZA and AIW. We want to share with you who we are and why we are here.
· Business Development - Bill Brandes: business restructuring,
· Finance & Operations - Sabrina Wei: investment banker, business consultant, Deloitte & Touche alumni

· Consultant* (Game Design) - John Popadiuk, Zidware Inc.

#12239 4 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

Maybe as a prerequisite to playing the game, he should get anyone that does play it, to fill out a quick survey form, while the playing experience is still on their minds. He could even ask the question about if the would consider buying one, and if so, they could leave a name and email for him to pass on more information.

Screen Shot 2015-05-29 at 4.52.25 PM.png

#12443 4 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

He didn't say it would suck if it was non-licensed, just implied that it wouldn't sell as many units. Tigerlaw appreciating and owning an original themed game doesn't really counter his point. A licensed game is going to sell more units and JJP needs the sales. It doesn't look like Jack has the luxury of taking a risk right now.

I agree an unlicensed theme is more risky.

However, if anyone was going to do an unlicensed theme, putting a legendary team behind its design would be the best way to mitigate that risk. Granted I'm an early-Lawlor-fantatic, but I think it's fair to say this upcoming JJP game will create massive buzz in the pinhead community if Lawlor has indeed regained his B/W mojo....

#12458 4 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

With all the changes in art work, programming, video, etc. etc. It would delay the game a year or more.

a year-long delay for a JJP machine??!?!?


I'm super excited to see what PL has been working on, and I also LOVE there's been no dribbling of details and clues for 12 months. LOVE THAT!

#12522 4 years ago

Well, several days have past with zero effort to refute the claim that Pintasia's #2 on the "team of experts" that Bill assembled (the finance person, no less!) is indeed the same person embroiled in multiple past Ponzi schemes.

Safe to assume that if it was somehow untrue, it would have been vigorously denied/refuted by now.

Between that (the first Pintasia announcement) and the horrific lead-in that John sent out prior, it's hard to imagine a WORSE way to kickoff a venture whose goal is restoring trust.

Oh, wait, they made 2 ramps.... Oh, snap, forget all the ethics stuff.... NEW RAMPS!!!!

#12541 4 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

1000 units x $1000 = $1,000,000 . That should make a lot of folks whole. Of course this is pure speculation on my part..

At what price point would they need to sell to be able to turn that profit?

Oh, and factor in a NEW cost JPop didnt even consider: outsourcing manufacturing.

I still think thats a FAR greater hurdle than figuring out a flipping proto:
Who will make these machines?

JJP? They can hardly figure out their OWN production schedule.
Stern? Why? Why with all the BETTER options out there (Stern titles, Vault editions, PPS/CGC remakes, etc), would they want to wrestle in this mudpit?

#12584 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

But mainly, the selling price will determine if it's a go or no go. If they're sticking with $16k than I think this has less than 1% chance of going forward. People could buy three Stern pins or two JJP or (2 of) Alien and TBL or MMR.
$16k is the no-go range. $16k can sell a few games but not enough numbers to pay for development (see Zidware).

Respectfully, I think the "no-go range" starts a helluva lot lower than $16K.

And, consider there's 2 distinct groups"
1. The folks already held hostage with deposit money.
2. New customers- folks with no skin in the game

Group 1 will likely want to believe anything positive.
Group 2 will be looking at this FAR more objectively, and comparing it to many other options

For Group2: I think the no-go price point is more like $9K. And realize for that it would still be the most expensive new game sold EVER.... who's the programmer again?

#12586 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

Not to mention group 2 would have nothing to do with the ponzi preorder.

Well, I would say ANY (sane) buyers will be resistant to giving $$$ to this project.... I mean, who knows, there's probably some pinheads with stupid money (thats a term of endearment, not judgement) that might be willing to throw $500 down on something if its gorgeous, but I think even THAT will be a hard sell.

#12636 4 years ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

/////// posted by Bill Brandes: Jim the area inside the ramp will be decorative as there was no way completing this toy in time or diverters etc off ramps. In fact going through all this stuff is not very clear at all. We haven't got the final "purpose" of the center and how ramps/balls were to mingle.


Was this entire endeavor built around a name and pretty artwork??

Not even sure what the items on the pf even do?

What a [email protected]#$

#12645 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:


Christ.... did you sell your caplock button too? Buy that back- you'll need it at some point....

#12656 4 years ago
Quoted from CoinTaker:

Page 4 of my MG Contract: "John A. Popaduik Jr. and the Purchaser both agree to act honestly and with good faith in ALL respects and matters regarding the design, development, and sale/purchase of the Magic Girl pinball machine,including: Communication, Quality, Timelines, and Overall Transparency, as set forth in this Purchase Agreement" Hummm.....
Where to start:

I'd say the whole thing is f$&ked right at " act honestly"

#12680 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

He is after all, Zane D. Smith, attorney at law. What a F ing joke that is.

So you're happy to pump the guy who hires a serial ponzi fraud specialist as his 2nd in command, but want to vilify this guy who you presumable don't know anything about but his name?

Seems reasonable.

#12689 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

See wager above Lowepg, you don't have the BALLS as usual.
Even Sad Sack did.

Classy.... Just like your juvenile PMs begging for a reply.

Why are you on such a rant here? It's like your meds got mixed up or something? Seriously? It's like backwards day- Kaneda's post are making sense and you've gone off the deep end....

Your shrill effort to browbeat folks OUT of pursuing legal recourse is likely having the exact opposite effect you are intending....

Chill.... And play some pinball or something.

#12693 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Go troll the Predator thread Lowepg, seriously, everybody is getting tired of your act.

Nah. No need. Even the most diehard apologists, cheerleaders and pumpers have come to their senses in THAT thread....

I think it's YOU that had worn out their welcome in this thread, especially if you can't participate without petty insults. Rise Up! Quit the personal insults, it just makes you sound foolish. If you have something NEW and of value to add, try that.

#12703 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

How it evolves into bitching at each other I don't know

Really? You have no idea?

hint: your 19 posts in less than an hour is a good start....

For the record:
I'm sorry you got ripped off again
I'm sorry you though everyone would celebrate Bill, Sabrina and Johns plan.
I'm sorry that there's about a 99% chance that everyone involved is screwed on this.
I'm sorry you think anyone here is happy about the situation.

However, even though there are people on both side of the issue:
You insulting anyone that wants to sue John is not productive, just like
Anyone insulting your intelligence for supporting Bill would not be productive.

#12709 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Coming from you, it doesn't mean a thing.

It doesn't mean a thing? - it sure doesn't sound like it... because you keep filling my inbox with this kind of crap:

"Confront you man to man?" lolwut?

You *DO* understand that I cant just come out the playground at recess right? You know, because we're like 1400 miles away from each other? Oh yeah... and (theoretically) we're both adults....

Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

#12714 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

Isn't publishing PMs a big no-no? I'd delete that.

Yeah, good point... I thought personal attacks were as well, but since Ice has already been kicked from the last 2 Jpop threads, perhaps he's allowed to go unmoderated here...

Frankly, I thought he was TRYING to get ejected from this thread again...

No need to lower myself to his level, but I wanted to let folk see his craziness. He tries to goad you in PM and then plays the victim here.... it's just sad....... I actually feel sorry for him.

#12716 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It's...... who you are. 1400 miles or not. I'm right here, all the time. Come see me.

Stop embarrassing yourself...


#12917 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Thanks from holland,I appreciate your efforts,you will be legend if this works out...legend..

You can say that again!

#12927 4 years ago
Quoted from gcp:

I saw this post in the RAZA thread just now, and was impressed with its prescience. From August, 2013:

(not trying to rub salt in anyone's wounds - just thought it was a pretty spot-on prediction, from nearly 2 years ago. for all the times we rake people over the coals for being *wrong* with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, it's interesting to see someone get something right.)

Yup- whatever you do- DO NOT click that link and see the folks that trashed his comments.... Hell, someone went so far as to not only compliment JPOPS design, but his savviness as a BUSINESSMAN !

Repeat- do NOT go back and read that thread. DO NOT.

REposting them now seems akin to "spiking the ball" for the folks that tried to warn, but were scorned as unbelievers.... I suspect they are already feeling plenty enough pain for their misplaced trust....

#12989 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

but I guess one or both of us is lucky you're not allowed to make threats of physical violence on Pinside?!?

It's actually allowed now: you just need to claim you're a lightweight, can't hold liquor and that you post like a little bitch when you've been drinking.....

#13208 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

It will be the tale about a zombie girl with big magical tits that drank atomic waste in radioactive wonderland and ofcourse turned purple and is eversince in sort of a retro rollercoaster acid pinball trip.

(resisting natural temptation to take that comment as reason enough to post some 'magical melon photos")

#13209 4 years ago


#13365 4 years ago

random musings:

"spilled a bag of skittles" on the game might have gone over better.... but to re-iterate- it was a critique on lighting, not artwork.

ramp looks better than I gave it credit for.... looking forward to see it in action.

PF looks better with the lights OFF....

If this project WAS going forward, I would have asked zombieyeti to take a whack at the cabinet.

Sadly, I think this will be a bittersweet event for MG "owners." I'm afraid they might fall in love with the art of the game, but I suspect this might be the closest they ever come to getting one

#13594 4 years ago

So who really needs to be "convinced" or "WOWed" by MG at this point?

It doesn't seem like it's the folks already IN on MG- they are hostage to the situation regardless.

But, if it's really NEW money (and lots of it) that it would take to salvage this thing, it would seem it's the folks NOT previously emotionally vested in the project that need to be convinced, right?. People that will weigh this purchase against other upcoming options (TH, Star Wars, GOT, TBL, AFMr, JJP 3, etc).

Or is it enough to convince all the AI and RAZA folks?

I'm just wondering what "success" looks like for this reveal?

#13623 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

And you can't hit the drive-thru at 2am with a pinball game.

My TSPP would beg to differ!

#13636 4 years ago

Best photo yet....the colors are growing on me.

The angle "looks" like it might be close to a players view? If so, the LCD doesn't look obstructed.... I like it.

#13676 4 years ago
Quoted from Shorty:

At the end of the day there is really only going to be 2 opinions:
1. I have time and/or money invested - this is a beautiful game and needs to be produced because it is going to become one of the greatness games ever.
2. I don't have time and/or money invested - this is a beautiful game and looks like it could be a great game but no way am I going to pay five figures for this.

I think there's a few more options out there:

3. "It's visually impressive, but just not that FUN to play."
4. "There's too much that still not working/incomplete/unexplained to make an opinion."
5. "Check back with me when there's a programmer, a manufacturer and a complete prototype."
6. I love it!... But for $6-$7k,
7. Etc

#13891 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm dubious on all the 'claimed' money spent. How has $100K been spent on this pin in the past 30 days?

Unless Bill paid Jpop $50k for the "rental" of the game, that amount seems a bit dubious.... Wait, 100k Canadien?
Bill might want to check the math if those are the figures his new Finance guru shared with him

Perhaps he was figuring in the cost of his time? That would be reasonable....especially if he's been work in on this thing for weeks.

I hope he didn't really stroke a check for $100k for THIS though, can't help but think that was a colossal waste of money given the sorry state John left the game in (yeti's fine artwork being the exception).

#13896 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

The playfield cover contained the artwork.

What does something like that cost to print?

It might look good on the wall? If ALL the PF artwork was done by yeti, maybe he could print some for sale....

#13903 4 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

What you saw here was a PROTOTYPE and still at concept stage.

concept stage? hmmm.

Serious question since you seem to be pretty informed on the status:

I know many folks want to think John can be completely excluded from the Pintasia project (real story, my auto-correct changed it to 'fantasia')- but with so many of the mech's/toys/etc not even present or functional, is it really feasible to complete this WITHOUT John? Its obvious he dreamed-up a lot of unusual stuff here, but it would appear much of it still isn't complete (or even understood by those other than John)?

I'm wondering if - for good or for naught- if this game is inextricably tied to Jpop....

#13917 4 years ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

I realize this project is poison to some and a great fun to piss all over any bit of positivity it receives - but give the folks that are doing SOMETHING to TRY to move it forward the tiniest bit of respect they are possibly due.

So by all means - do continue to drink plenty of fluids and continue the flow of your piss directly on MG and anyone standing near it. I mean, it's their fault for standing near the target, right?

Quoted from zombieyeti:

Down vote me. Show your love for pinball and relieve your bladder.

I'm sure some of the folks that have lost sleep getting this done might be a bit over-sensitive to ANY criticism, but I'm not sure where you're seeing all this "pissing on EVERYONE standing near it"?? Come on....

"Not giving folks the tiniest bit of respect"? huh?

I'm pretty sure I could go back and find 100 posts that start with something like, "the pin is beautiful to look at" or "gorgeous artwork", and "thanks to those that tried to make this happen" etc, etc, etc.

However, if you were expecting everyone to fall over with their legs in the air with this reveal, I think you had unreal expectations. This looks like it wold have been a welcome "stepping stone" if revealed about 2 years ago.... but now?

#13923 4 years ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

You them go on to try to paint this project as impossible from all angles with coy 'what ifs?' Posing johns need to be involved...

*I'm* painting the project as Impossible?
I simply asked the guy who was working on the machine if it *could* be completed without John. Why? Well, it appeared it wasn't just a case of the game simply needed a ramp to be finished- there appeared to be whole lot of stuff missing. And maybe thats exactly why they need John to stay on in a consulting role- but if you think that's not a fair question....

Quoted from zombieyeti:

And forgive me if I'm not hearing correctly that you want this to have the worst possible outcome for the love of pinball - but my hearing is questionable as I've got piss in my ears. My ears are so so very sensitive.

You're forgiven. You certainly were NOT hearing correctly.

"I want this to have the worst outcome for pinball?"
If anyone has "harmed pinball" -its certainly the likes of characters like Jpop and KevinK.

#13926 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

» YouTube video
Here you go Yeti, this pretty much sums it up

Ironic that YOU would post a video of a DRUNK who pisses all over himself lol

#14003 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Holy crap dude, would you STOP misquoting me!?!

Wow, now just flat out wishing me (and others) ill? F you, dude...I've never come at you like that with the Zidware games.
Thankfully your predictions are always wrong.

No sense reasoning with him...

This is his typical response to getting called out or even disagreeing with him:
personal attacks and a launch into rant-mode.

Ice seems to want to make this thread all about himself:

827 posts in this thread alone.... lol.. .EIGHT HUNDRED! And that's when he's NOT on eject/vacation here from the mods....

Screen Shot 2015-06-07 at 9.05.43 PM.png

There's one villian in this story: Jpop.
Not Bill and also not the skeptics.

#14129 4 years ago
Quoted from cranie:

Anyone taking odds on how long before that 1 prototype "disappears"?

I think it's in FAR FAR better hands with the folks here that are volunteering their time than if it was sent back to Jpop.

The question is, if jpop still owns it (which it seems he does), what happens if he demands it back?

My questions about pintasia aside, I'd still consider him a better steward of the game.

#14230 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

Right, and the problem stems from the fact that the original $300k (19*16k) would never have fully funded the build in the first place. This situation was almost inevitable from the outset. The question now is it worth going forward with an expanded production number to get it built or let it die?

I'm still trying to understand why the effort is "finish MG at any cost"? Is it simply because it was assumed to be the closest to completion?

If it's indeed the game with the LEAST number of people "invested"- why not survey the group and determine if it's even worth throwing more time and money at?

Obviously MG isn't "shovel ready", so if it's going to take a major redesign, perhaps it's actually NOT the best machine to build? I mean, once you look past the nice artwork, the game seemed unremarkable.

Are RAZA and/or AIW even on the radar for prototypes?

#14234 4 years ago
Quoted from BackFlipper:

Bill taking on the project is a distraction of the real problem-JPOP. He should have waited for the BK AND PURCHASED THE LICENSE LATER. He then could have offered some credits to all purchasers and would look like a hero.

Yes, but then Bill might be bidding vs other interested parties.... I assume he chose the timing very deliberately.

It was unclear if (under the jpop plan) he was going to have to pay anything (to Jpop). He wouldn't assume the liability, but would TRY to offer credits to the jpop victims.... Jpop might trade away the whole thing for protection from lawsuit, and a Liles multiyear gig "consulting" on the games.


Having to big against someone else looking to pickup the work done so far for a song.

Btw- I'm not suggesting Bills strategy was a bad one.

#14315 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Or simply.. some of the noise generators left the thread finally. Don't say their name three times or we'll have to suffer through it all again.

Well, ice was ejected again... (Permanently this time), so you don't have him trying to respond to every other post.

That right there is a 7% reduction in posting. Add in the dumbasses like me that would get goaded into responding to him, and you're looking at a net 15-20% reduction in noise with the ejection

#14316 4 years ago

Double post... (is that happening to everyone?)

#14359 4 years ago

Ha! And you said I was never optimistic in this thread....

#14460 4 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

Using the F word is immoral, but swindling people out of a million dollars is just the daily grind of being a top end pinball virtuoso.

or a successful politician....

#14472 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

And I'm still waiting to hear form PDXmonkey why he was leading us on 7 months ago. He has as much explaining to to as anybody. I understand guys like Cointaker and others maybe wanting to keep things on the down low, not wanting to submarine John, but PDXmonkey flat out lied his ass off saying the games were mostly complete 7 months ago.

Good luck with that.

Pinside is a forgetful group..... "Hey pdxmoney spent HOURS trying to glue the ramps in, what kind of an ungrateful cretin are you for trying to square his previous comments (misrepresentations at least....at worst??? )..... It's all about the ramps now man, the RAMPs! You obviously don't love pinball"

Btw- the same criticisms were initially shouted down across town in the Predator thread when people wanted to call out Aaron and Paul (virtuapin) and Spfxted for their part in propagating the lies.... "stop critiquing beloved pinsiders- or You Don't Love Pinball!!"

#14486 4 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

I remember reading on Pinside 2 years ago that people never believed he'd finish a single machine. I figured it out about the time he told Ben to flake off....

Yes, but not everyone was even convinced at that major turning point....

There's been a consistent theme of shouting-down and naysayers, logic bedamned;

Screen Shot 2015-06-10 at 11.25.22 AM.png

#14504 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Hell, people won't even buy a game when shown a flipping machine - WOOLY.
"Tell me when I can pick it up" is the line now.


And, btw, that goes for the future jpops of the world, but also DO and JJP and even Stern.

You think Stern might do a little better on code at release if they weren't preselling the entire allotment of Le models in MINUTES? If buyers wanted to SEE and TOUCH working machines?

Yeah, I know, pie-in-the-sky that pinheads can exhibit that kind of self control...

#14524 4 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

I doubt if Bill will post any more info here. He must feel every time he opens his mouth he gets the equivalent of an extended
prostate exam.
He'll probably just talk in the private "owners" group and avoid us rubberneckers and armchair QB's... those guys in the group have actually lost real money so it seems fair to me.

Here's the problem: in the "old world model" a new business venture would have their business plan "pressure tested" when they went to the bank or investors to borrow money. They'd certainly get a "financial prostate exam" before they ever got a penny. Many bad ideas died right there.... And some good ideas, but not fully thought out....

In today's "crowd-funding world" - that pressure testing doesn't happen in any formal sense. A sexy idea has oftentimes been enough to raise millions of dollars by people without the first idea of how to execute. No sense boring people here with some obvious examples.

So, expect to get your "pressure testing" right here from now on. And, let's be honest, if a business venture can't answer questions HERE- on a pinball forum!!- how the f+€€+ are they going to make it in the real world. Too much heat in this kitchen? Need to fall back to a secret Facebook page or something? Get ready for failure.

#14646 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I really couldn't care less what happens to the MG proto, .


Next major show- bring it- set it up in the parking lot-

$100/swing with a sledge hammer, all proceeds to go to the victims fund.

#15041 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

From John Popadiuk -
Zidware marches on! Most people don't know what I know , and what I know is people buy million dollar paintings every day. And my deal costs way less! So why wouldn't a Millionaire angel investor just walk in and take over? It could happen today. Pintasia may not see the light , but there are smarter, better business men out there (please stop in for tea and pinball whispering anytime if interested). All we need is one of those Millionaire painting buyers to walk in and carry the ball. We are 95% done anyways. Lawsuit shmawsuit ... We will have another investo-sucka in here before you can say Zane Smith! - paraphrase from the mad hatter down the hole.
Sad...but that's where he is now .

i think you need to clarify this post- some are taking this as a literal quote from jpop....

#15070 4 years ago

Obviously an oversimplification, but:

If Kevin at SkitB isnt going to face criminal charges (after CLEARLY misrepresenting the product and violating licensing, etc, etc) it's hard to imagine jpop will.

Doesn't make it right or better, but I think criminal charges are a pipe dream.

The "good" news is criminal charges aren't necessary to ruin his life....

#15107 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I doubt you'll get many flames from the Americans, we know our justice system is fucked. 1 out of every 100 Americans is in jail.

Well, it's not really fair to compare the US to Canada in regards to incarceration rates. Why?


Yes, the U.S. Incarceration rates look horrific compared to Canada, but you're comparing apples and oranges. If you adjust for racial differences the numbers are quite different. Sad, but true. Demographics.

#15175 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

From my contract:
The Purchaser may terminate or otherwise cancel their order at any time, prior to actual shipment or transfer possession of the finished BHZA pinball machine to the Purchaser, with an incurred penalty of 25% of their accrued deposits at the time of cancellation if no other buyer can be found to purchase e the cancelled game within sixty (60) days of such a cancellation by the Purchaser. In the event that a new buyer is found within this time period, then all accrued deposits submitted by the Purchaser at the time of cancellation will be refunded in full. No interest shall be pain on any returned deposits. These same cancellation terms shall apply if the Company terminates this Purchase Agreement with the Purchaser under any of the relevant clauses herein.

So, perhaps a dumb question, but:

Have you formally cancelled your order? That might sound foolish, but if you haven't, jpop might be able to claim they are still trying to find a way to deliver your machine... And therefor not in breach.

I think I'd send a certified letter to him formally canceling and requesting the refund per the terms of the contract.

You may have already done all that....

#15222 4 years ago
Quoted from joestro78:

In the last couple of weeks, Bill gave me hope that the world that seemed to be spiraling out of control could be made right again. He was our national anchor and our visionary. His vision for this project was akin to what my grandfather would tell me about the way FDR saved this country with the New Deal.

Not sure if your post was supposed to be sarcastic?

I know many were looking for any shred of hope in this mess, but honestly, that pintasia plan never seemed like it made sense from day 1. From the horrible initial email from jpop, to the request for protection from lawsuit, to the announcement of the "expert team" that included a ponzi expert, to the general lack of detail, etc, etc.

What came after followed an unfortunately standard gameplan:
1. A faithful and overzealous supporter(s) floods the conversation
2. Any critical comments are furiously and shrilly refuted
3. The critics themselves are discredited as "unbelievers"
4. The victims are given hope that "something's better than nothing"
5. Disagreement rises to the level of "hating pinball"
6. Rinse and repeat.

#15230 4 years ago
Quoted from APB_Enterprises:

John stated himself that he has no money.

This is one of the things has has me scratching my head.

John has lied to so many people on so many topics, and yet, many take his statement of "being broke" as somhow being truthful? Even though getting folks to believe this would be incredibly self-serving?

#15541 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

I dunno.. I think he really is just that dumb. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity as they say.

I prefer the fuller quote:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice. "

#15636 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Why would you go after revenue?
If you show revenue, people will always ask, ‘How much,’ and it will never be enough.
You have to always keep your company in a “pre-revenue” state.
Do you know what ROI stands for? Radio On Internet.


Yeah.... difference is jpop is going from 1 comma to zero commas....

#15745 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinterest:

I second that.
So - I have no desire to read 300+ pages to figure this out - can anyone please tell me in no more than 5 words per line and 5 lines total what this thread is about?

Don't prepay for pinball.
Don't prepay for pinball.
Don't prepay for pinball.
Don't prepay for pinball.
Don't prepay for pinball.

#15773 4 years ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

Yawn... Lots of bark and no bite happening here. John still lives free. Had I fallen prey to him, things would be very different for him. This thread is becoming boring and nauseating.


#15790 4 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

What's a noone? Is that pronounced noon-E and is that like a nooner? I like those.



#15888 4 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

If I win tomorrow's Powerball ($80 million) then I will give $3.2 million to finish this.
So don't give up hope just yet. If you don't hear from me by Monday then assume I did not win.

Why? You could probably buy JJP (a company that might actually survive) for about a quarter of that....

#15912 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I don't care who was loading the complete games on the truck. It could be Sabrina, or Hitler himself and I still wouldn't care..

Obviously some of that was tongue-in-cheek (I hope). But I think it brings up an important point. i think the experience with Kevin and Jpop should teach the lesson that you *DO* need to know more about the people you're getting into bed with. And, despite what some may think, integrity matters. Maybe it doesnt to people in the SALES phase, but it sure as ell should in the manufacturing and service phase....

btw- folks need to stop over-reacting and realize criticism of Bill's selection of his "dream team" is not the same as criticizing Bill's own ethics and/or intentions. One is a question of his business acumen and judgement, the other is a question of his ethics.

#15937 4 years ago
Quoted from beefzap:

I have seen this enormous thread and looked at it a few times but can't read the whole thing.
So can someone do a short executive summary / cliff notes version of the gist of what is going on here?

Don't prepay for pinball.

#15965 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Jack risked a lot of up front money on all the fixtures, space and 3 years float for salaries and $1mil in parts (I'm guessing --- actually, it had to be if you saw it personally), before the first game rolled off the line.

I give Jack credit for doing what few others have been able to do- actually ship a pin.

However, don't forget, Jack "risked" a lot of OTHER peoples money for those 3 years, not his own. You might say "so what", but I think that a pretty big distinction.

That doesn't take anything away from the accomplishment, but lets not romanticize who exactly was taking the risk.... Because frankly, THAT is still a big part of the problem with all these startups- they aren't risking their own money.

#16030 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I don't think I was "bashing" Zane Smith so maybe this isn't aimed at me. I did recommend that people be realistic about the likely outcomes of suing

No, you weren't, and really, it was one person that was on a irrational tirade trashing Zane Smith (personally ANd professionally) as if HE was somehow responsible for all that was wrong with the world....

2 weeks later
#16331 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

JPOP Thoughts -19 Jun - Jersey Jack
"My personal opinions:
I don't know John.

he should have just stopped right there.

Quoted from Concretehardt:

skewered in public by the angry mob and even the few hopeful, hapless know it all armchair experts that do nothing and have never done anything worthwhile.

nice.... now 'were getting some prime Jack.... "all the pinside critics have never done anything worthwhile"

Amazing jack has the time to keep up with EVERYONE elses accomplishments to make this statement...

Quoted from Concretehardt:

I do not believe his intent was ever anything other than to deliver the best most innovative game he could design.

So, after admitting he doesnt know the guy, he *IS* able to determine his intent? Pretty impressive.

Quoted from Concretehardt:

....years of passion, blood, sweat and tears of his life to do this. Pinball is (or was) John's life. He did it for you, those who believed in him.

eh, you forgot about the part where he was housed and salaried during this "arduous blood/sweat/tears ordeal" So, lets be fair, "he did it" for a salary and all expenses paid gig... He risked OTHER PEOPLES MONEY.... not his....(sound familiar?)

Quoted from Concretehardt:

He did not intend this to happen, it happened because of poor planning, because of negative posts cutting off and panicking his buyers.

There it is! The reason for jack to wade into this shitnado- to blame pinside for Jpops failure! Of course! The damn critics! Waiting for him to coin a new phrase "PInside Mafia"

Quoted from Concretehardt:

Those who "invested" in him - well - you got what you paid for. You got to be on the roller coaster ride of ups and downs. You got to be an insider and an outsider. You had the money to burn for a big toy that nobody needs and that money got burned alright.

TH "investors" - please take note...

Quoted from Concretehardt:

You already have received your pound of flesh and if you truly cared about Pinball all of you would have rallied as a group to help the poor guy figure out what he has and what could be saved if it was possible. Instead, the lynch mob storms the castle with pitchforks and torches.

"Pound of flesh"? I think the folks burned would rather have their MONEY BACK, not a pound (or ounce) of flesh.

Quoted from Concretehardt:

The guy and his family have suffered enough, really, he has. ....John is not a failure, his company is a failure.
I feel bad for John"

<group hug>

Wow....just wow....

#16358 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

Why is it OK for Ben to say whatever he wants about JPOP but Jack gets criticized when he says something? And he said it on the JJP forum not pinside. I'm not saying whether I agree with what he said, just pointing it out. Double standard or just the usual Pinside drama?


Well, for starters.... Ben is right

Jack is.... well.....um.... what's the opposite of right??

i think jack is entitles to his opinion.... however the optics of him sharing it would be 1000% better if he made those comments AFTER shipping TH!

#16380 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

At least 2000. 1000 ECLE's and 1000 standards.

Count me as IMPRESSED when the number of SHIPPED pins matches the number of PAID pins....

right now that's probably more like 2000 vs 3000

btw- I know you want that too!

#16401 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Guys, Jack apologized a little while ago. Post 6945 in The Hobbit update thread.
From the thread above
"I'm sorry that my post was misunderstood. I'm sorry that it confused or upset anyone. l"

He "apologized" for people that misunderstood his post.... or were confused.

come on man, thats some weak-ass shit right there!

I'd love for him to help us "understand" what he meant regarding:
"the jpop investors got what they paid for"
"jpop never meant to screw people"
"jpop failed because we just didnt BELIEVE hard enough in him"

At least he's consistent.... Even his 'apology" blames the victims for not being smart enough to understand his comments.

Pretty sure he lost a few supporters with that ridiculous commentary....

#16446 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Word is he has a Friday meeting with another angel investor.



#16458 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

If Jack starts asking for money for number 3 pin before TH are delivered, I'd assume he is not liquid enough to build The Hobbit.

Agreed. And I really hope that doesnt happen, because I'm REALLY pumped to see the lawlor pin, but would NEVER prepay for a pin....ever.

#16468 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

This thread is finally dying. It will have a revival when jpop files bankruptcy. I still not think it will get to 20k

It was likey already going into hibernation a few weeks ago, but Jack's assinine comments gave it a couple hundred post boost....

#16493 4 years ago

So much for jack's insighful opinion that John "Never INTENDED to screw people"

horseshit. this is pretty much 100% bullshit to screw folks tryin to recover their money now.

I pulled that page from the web archives and found Nothing... so this "News blog" didnt even START until what, after the first lawsuit?

I sincerely hope a lawyer will be able to rip this up...

#16496 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

It has been mentioned quite a few times that someone from the local area should stop by his shop and see what's going on and give him a few things to think about. There must be dozens of people from the Chicago area who live within driving distance. ......

Well, I've heard talk about a "Chicago Pinball Mafia"... perhaps THIS is the kind of thing you could call on them to do?

#16501 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I think this statement is true:
"Never INTENDED to screw people" ... 4 years ago when he started.
At some point though.....


#16502 4 years ago


#16503 4 years ago


gawd I hope they fix this...

#16511 4 years ago
Quoted from RomstarArkanoid:

I know it is broken, but if you click "Send Post" only one time, it will post... even if it looks like it has not. Click once, save a server.

yes, yes... I know.... itchy trigger finger.

One nice fix would be the ability to DELETE your own thread... perhaps on a 5 minute timer or something... I'll bet that would get used.... I know it does on other forums.

#16524 4 years ago

Well... just when you thought this thread would die at a "measly" 15,000....

With Jack commenting and John now blogging.... pretty sure this baby is headed for the big TWO -OH -OH -OH -OH

#16598 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I am very skeptical of Pintasia and $100K invested, that seems like complete BS to me, how is that even possible and why would someone drop $100K on Jpop.

I think he factored in the value of his and his "teams" time.

If not, I think he found the most expensive van rental in the history of the world

#16662 4 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Email I received:
Thanks for the email. We started as a custom shop (low runs) and taking from my original works from the 90s and moving forward with new ideas, custom features and great hand drawn artwork. So the base price is about 9.5k and up and we setup a pre-order basis. It all takes a lot of time.
John Popadiuk

Sounds like he carefully (vaguely) crated that email.

No mention of MG or other titles he said "werent happening"

I could see this is as strategy... Screw the big production and try to build 2-3 totally custom pins/month.

He may have heard JUST enough positive feedback to feel he could dribble out that many to stay afloat. All this extra attention of the artwork and design may have unwittingly HELPED his new cause...

#16732 4 years ago
Quoted from PinPatch:

However a few silent big ugly looking friends tagging along may help persuade him and he will pay up I guarantee it. .

You guarantee a few dirty looks will suddenly force him to create a conscience and will also magically put $1M back in his bank account to payout?

I think thats fantasy.

#16743 4 years ago

So Zane filed the motion for continuance?

#16813 4 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

Like I said, it's all his opinion. It's not a great opinion, in my opinion, but that's all it is! So far, he hasn't stole anybody's money. He just hurt some feelings. And that's not cool, but I'd much rather have hurt feelings than a hurt wallet.

Your post makes no sense...

You defend Jack's asinine comments about Jpop and the folks that 'invested' in him as "just opinion"
However, you're somehow upset at everyone's criticism on Jack. Isn't that just people expressing THEIR opinion?

Why is one OK but not the other?

But even your simplistic defense fails because, as the president of a company, you don't just share your ramdom "opinions" without expecting it having some consequence.... Especially when it touches flashpoint topics on things like prepaying for pinball and losing your investment.... Certainly an "opinion" that carries some extra weight since he himself is sitting on millions of prepay money and is a year late delivering....

Jack needs to STFU and ship every machine he's been paid for, fix every defective machine that he's shipped and THEN he can wax philosophic on the trials and tribulations of others. That's MY opinion.

#16819 4 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

Hey, thanks for dissing my "simplistic" response, lowepg, but perhaps you're too busy huffing and puffing to get my point: THIS ISNT THE THREAD TO COMPLAIN ABOUT JJP. y

and yet..lol... your last 4 posts in as many hours have been about Jack/JJP.

I'm not sure why your confused about the topics intermingling, though:
Jack posted a inflammatory/idiotic message ABOUT Jpop!

Discussing it here would seem to follow the mods intent to keep "all things Jpop" in one place.

#16844 4 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

if people don't want to buy a JJP pin because of it, then more power to them!

When JJP unveils their next title, everyone will be collectively oohing-and-ahhhhhing and putting down preorders.

Dude... seriously... enough with all the JJP posts... someone told me this was a jpop thread!

#16845 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Let's see what Pat does when "budget" isn't the issue.

Agreed.... fewer budget constraints *AND* not being hamstrung by constantly having to cow-tow to a licensor.

Seems like he's literally got:
a blank canvas
a kickass new platform to stretch
a blank check (well, within reason).

pretty damn exciting!

#16869 4 years ago
Quoted from dkazz1:

No great games in last 22 years?! How about RBION? Severely underrated title.

Maybe that's his best STERN title, and certainly could be called a "good" game, but "great"? No way.

It's an old conversation, but I think PL did his best work at B/W and his Stern stuff was just weak... some bright spots in a few games, but as a whole, disappointing.

Even his B/W games that perhaps weren't "great" certainly had some very unique ideas: Banzai Run, Safecracker, Earthshaker, etc.

In comparison, the Stern stuff looked like he was mostly "going through the motions" on mostly licensed gigs.

#16872 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

But what does that say when the games are mostly projects PLD did, that they just handed over to Stern to manufacture? They were games built by Pat in his studio under his label.

I'm not taking the oft-used excuse that it was "all Stern" or "Stern cramped his creative style" or "stern was too cheap" - I'm simply saying his best work was done at B/W - by a LONG margin.

#16893 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Dude... seriously... enough with all the JJP posts... someone told me this was a jpop thread!

Lol... Yup... You're right.

However talking about the return of Pat Lawlor is a helluva lot more inspiring then the greek tragedy of Jpop.

And, since they were both characters from pinballs recent past, perhaps it IS relevant to contrast the two different paths they took.... Ok.... Yeah- that's a stretch

#16942 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

John has added a "preview" site for magic girl now
He's gone as far as uploading images of all the artwork, and embed quicktime movies (that PC users typically can't see), and giant .WAV files of game music (oh but then a few mp3's mixed in, just to be consistent)

Wow- he's been working harder the last few weeks on the website than the last few years it would seem!

2 months later
#17649 4 years ago

Afraid Nate unwittingly just help perpetuate Jpops claim that he's still "trying to make it all work."

#17656 4 years ago

still listening.... against better judgement...

"You know building these games isn't really a big deal... I didn't lose any sleep on that part of the planning... but it's a parts problem... can't build then if you don't have all the parts (guess he took a page out of someone else playbook with that excuse)"

brutal - listening to him talk about Pintasia- and how he was concerned about THEIR credibility/ability to follow through.... nearly lol when he brought up the Sabrina Wei fiasco....

"its between 75% and 90% done"

"I'm very good at costing..."

I know the guy isn't a investigative journalist, but jesus- this was a horrible interview.... the guy asks a question, the lets Jpop blather on for 15 minutes uninterrupted on 25 different topics- none of which answering the question. It's like a "fan interview."

#17660 4 years ago

In May, Jpop said,

"Dear Owner, Zidware no longer has the ability to get Magic Girl™ into production let RAZA and Alice in Wonderland (“AIW”). "

Now he's apparently back in business and "continuing to move the game along"?

He's making it sound like CABLING is his biggest challenge left for MG? wtf?
AND still talking about what's left with not just MG but also RAZA and AIW....

Simple question,
"John, just 4 months ago said the company was not solvent and COULD NOT continue. With zero new money coming in, why are you now suggesting things are still progressing?"

#17663 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'm only an hour into it but I think Nate's doing a good job.

Keep listening.... pretty sure you'll modify your opinion by the end.

Here's the big finale:
Nate: Anything else you want to tell folks out there?
JPop: Yes, I want people to know I don't give up, you know, WCS took 10 years to get right...
Nate: Sure
Jpop: And don't forget about taxes... 20% gets upped off the top and I wrote the governor about it...
Nate: Yup
JPop: Yeh, its just a lot of stuff to do... and like JJP and Stern have dozens of people helping them with office stuff
Nate: Ok, thanks well Ive enjoyed the conversation and best of luck to you and hopefully the next time were' talking about games shipping.
Jpop: Thanks Nate- yeah- well- we're REALLY CLOSE to MG production and the others close behind.... and now its getting to the fun part.
Nate: Appreciate it John...

Certainly Jpop gets a bit WTF..... but... sadly...so does Nate.
WTF Nate.... just wtf.

#17703 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Well if Nate had come off like an angry mob, John would have just walked out.

Who cares?

I would rather have had jpop get asked questions - and when he was unresponsive- asked again.

AND, challenged on some of his answers.... and if he bailed- he bailed.

jpop "Like, dude.... pinball is really hard... and we;re doing as best we can... and were still going to make it happen."

Nate(with balls added): John, I have to stop you right there. First, who is exactly is the "we" you keep referring to? Who else is actually working on this project right now? Second, you sent a very dire letter to all buyers saying there was No WAY MG/AIW/RAZA could get finished by Zidware. Now, since multiple lawsuits have started, you've suddenly started blogging again and now claiming otherwise. How can you square these completely contradictory statements?"

And if jpop want to hang up on him, well, all the better. Better to get cutoff than give him a 2 hour platform for making excuses and more empty promises.

#17714 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Nate: "John's a likable guy; I like him a lot".
IMHO: One of the most ludicrous statements ever.


Any amount of "like" or "respect" goes out the window after you STOLE/CHEATED/DEFRAUDED hundreds of people in this hobby.

"like" is not allowed in a sane person's vocabulary after that....

Lost a lot of respect for Nate after this....

If you can't do it right (the interview), better to not do it at all!

This whole thing will be propaganda for pops attorney that he's still functioning, "hey, I did a 2 hour interview with a pinball reporter, of course we're still in business, just listen.... TWO HOURS"

#17726 4 years ago
Quoted from someoneelse:

Nate gave him the chance to tell his version of the story and shed some light on what lead to this fiasco, and that's basically what JPop talked about.

But....why does Jpop deserve a chance a "tell his version"?

That aside, when "his version" jumped the shark and he started delivering pure bullshit, he was never called on it....

Instead you got 2 people who like to hear the sound of their own voices.... And little else.

#17749 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I found the interview fair and balanced. Had Nate "gone off on him" he would have just hung up.

Well, I think that would have been better, frankly. My problem with the "interview" is it just gave jpop 2 hours of propaganda.... and nothing new was learned by anyone that cares....

And worse, he was allowed to say "MG is progressing and nearly done, others close behind" - without being challenged by (a seemingly tired/worn-out) Nate. That's BAD.

Quoted from benheck:

We learned more about the depths of his business ineptitude

Didn't need 1 minute (much less 120) to know his ineptitude.

#17753 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm not even sure how "great" these zidware games were going to be. Take away ZombieYeti's art, and what is left? The disaster showing of Magic Girl at the NW show showed the reality. And 4 months later, he can't even show MG again, because it sucks.

Didn't you hear him explain this - he still hasn't gotten any feedback from the show! lol....

Hell, even if the game turned out to her decent (it isn't), then what? He's got no money to make it... this thing is dead regardless.

btw, I'm clearly in the minority, but I didn't even think the artwork was fantastic.... ZY's stuff is great to look at- no question- but it didn't seem to mesh with the game.... I saw nearly zero redeeming qualities in that game. Put a fork in MG.

#17794 4 years ago
Quoted from Artimage:

Everyone sueing Jpop should be thanking Nate right now. If that interview doesn't show gross business negligence than I don't know what does.
For those arguing that an interview on a pinball podcast where John looks ridiculous is somehow helping him prove his case that he's still working, I just don't buy it. What judge will say "Oh, you did a podcast? Well carry on then." Your anger at Jpop is completely warrented but shooting the messenger won't help.
Finally, saying that this is essentially the same thing you heard from Jpop in the past misses a huge point: namely that you spoke to him in the past. A lot of the community never heard John speak about this stuff, we didn't have his number and weren't in the club. So, getting the chance to hear his insane views first hand has benefits to the community as a whole.
In the end, I think this will help the lawsuits and gives a lot more people information they wouldn't otherwise have had.


Thats a fair point.... And a better one than I was trying to make criticizing Nate. You're right. It does put John "on the record" more completely than he's been before (at least without piecing together dozens of emails, blogs, etc).

I still think Nate could have "corralled him in" a bit AND should not have been so deferential, but I suppose those at stylistic points. If Nate doesn't naturally have the ability to challenge someone in conversation, I guess your destined to get what amounted to a 2 hour stream-of-consciousness blog from Jpop.

#17839 4 years ago

When he took people's money he was officially playing "big boy games"

He made the choices, and owns every consequence.

He did NOT just made a mistake or 2...

So I have ZERO remorse for him. zero.

#17885 4 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

Magic Girl looks amazing to me.

Had to look twice to make sure someone hadn't reposted something from like 2 years ago...

Perhaps Strange has been stranded on a desert island?

Cant otherwise explain this nonsense...

Hell, even the imaginary MG mock-up looked like a skittles explosion....Not only is it NEVER getting made, it was never that great to begin with!

#17905 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I think he's ok on line one. Line two should use " fallin' " to hit seven syllables though.
Haiku Police strike again!

still on first cup of coffee, but doesnt 'fallin' have the same number of syllables as 'falling' ?

#17911 4 years ago

Haikus are easy
But sometimes they don't make sense

#17941 4 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Roses are Red and Violets are Blue
Where's our Fucking Money

guys... please stop with the rhythms, haikus, limericks, etc.

THIS (above) will not be improved upon.

#17965 4 years ago
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:


oh shit... I better get dressed.....

#18016 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_4_me:

This thread reflects all that is wrong with Pinside - a train wreck in every sense of the statement!
Robin, hang your head in shame for allowing this nonsense on your site.

I know you're pretty new here, but here's a few "pro tips"

1. You are not REQUIRED to click on any threads you don't want to.
2. If you *DO* accidentally click one you deem "nonsense" or "all thats wrong with inside" - click UNVISIT
3. If you are so offended at the mere sight of the thread in your list- try DRAIN
4. Lastly, you certainly are not REQUIRED to add/participate in the discussion - especially one you deem a "train wreck"

From your post, it sounds like you were not aware of these 4 items....

You're welcome.

#18031 4 years ago

Accidentally hit page 1 of this thread...

WOW - pretty eye-opening to review how this mess started and how it was exacerbated...

flip through a couple pages....

John was a "Genius"
"the next Steve Jobs"
"hard working"
"100% NOT a scammer"

Ouch, then later:

"Screwed up & late, but MG will ABSOLUTELY GET MADE"
"OK, Jpop is getting his shit together....NOW things will be OK"
"Only an idiot/fool would sue him"
"New Investors coming"
and on and on...

#18039 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm glad you got a kick out of it. It is pretty comical pointing out how stupid we all were.

*I* never called anyone stupid.... some were certainly more foolish than others....I was pointing out the irony of the cock-sure postings of SOME at the beginning of this debacle...

But since you opened up this line of conversation:

Besides the (eventual) agreement that John was stupid, the one person I recall calling others "stupid" was THIS guy (at the "insane" suggestion that people should band together and sue Jpop):

Quoted from iceman44:

Give me a break. The dummies living in fantasy land are the ones that think you will get something out of litigation. That's utter stupidity.

"dummies"....."utter stupidity." not too much irony there....

Yes. Ice was deadset against even the idea of litigation.... when it was someone else idea...

Quoted from iceman44:

There won't be any scorched earth because there will be no lawsuits of any kind. It's just not reality, what lawyer would waste his time on such nonsense and who would pay him? Nobody gets a pinball machine and only the lawyers get paid.

That said, I just got off the phone with John...

John is a good guy that gets his feelings hurt and that's just the way it is.....

Anybody can feel free to call him, don't be intimidated, he's a great guy.


Quoted from iceman44:

I'm an excellent judge of character and John is the farthest thing from a scammer, con artist, etc. That's MY judgement.

#18047 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Live and learn. For some people, stupid is forever

Yup.. sadly many people are STILL pre-ordering pinball, even in the face of an avalanche of evidence....

Oh well.

#18070 4 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Always wonder why some people that make a lot need to make it known to others, and some are happy keeping it private.

My experience on the internet (as in real life) is the folks that feel the need to brag and boast the most are also those that are the most insecure....


#18110 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

In the grand scheme of things, I feel like I get robbed a whole lot more by the government, filing my return on the 15th and I need to stroke out another 100k for 2014.
I delayed taking the "theft and casualty" loss with John until this year, didn't move the needle on a 350k total tax due bill

On a related note, here's a stocking stuffer idea to put on your list for santa...

I suspect you already have one, but this one DOES come with the Velveteen Pouch....


#18200 4 years ago

lots of talk....

When Kulek showed up in public....

Someone BRAVELY took a picture of him... from behind.

That showed him!

#18244 4 years ago