(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..

By iceman44

5 years ago

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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (2 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (2 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (2 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (2 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (2 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (2 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#164 5 years ago

Magic girl has like at least 4-5 complete cabinets with art and semi populated play fields with full art. The plastics are done also. Not sure if its a full playing game yet but it looks close mechanically. Not even a clue as to video or code being close. Boards look cool.

#179 5 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

I can't believe it's been 3 years either, and seems there's still a LOT to do. NDA or not I can't say I'm happy about that. I'm still in and I have faith that the game will be astounding but from what I'm seeing I predict another year before anyone sees any games, maybe more, so I wish John would get moving. Problem is, you don't want to rush him and have the game come out rushed, but he seems in no rush at all, keeps designing new playfield trinkets and art, thought that would have all been done by now. John's young and healthy now so I'll chance it that he'll be around to finish, but if he was Gene's age I wouldn't be too happy about sending him all that money. I might be in for MG & RAZA but if he wants money up front for all his games I might have to rethink.....

Your ok with magic girl getting made in quantity more then 21? That's the new rumor..

#184 5 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

all for it as long as the price goes down and I get my machine faster.

Would think if they are making more of them it's cause they need to offset the original build cost for over runs and unforeseen cost... I doubt the 21 will be cheaper only what ever they make after being a cheaper model/version of it. Just a guess on my part as its only rumors

4 weeks later
#195 5 years ago
Quoted from cyber:

Unfortunately I haven't found any further pictures of Magic Girl.
I'm really wondering how many are being made (...if any).
There are rumors that it's going to be more than 21 games.

Heard there will be a scaled down version of magic girl to offset cost over runs.

#200 5 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

Ih he

I never heard anything like that, If he is I would assume he would tell the MG owners, I don't think he would do that, nor do I think he will make more than what he said, it's also in writing if that means anything. I just wish he would finalize the design and start building machines.

From the rumors I heard, he wanted to increase the numbers to 40 magic girls, then the latest one I heard at Allentown was keeping magic girl at 21-22 games and doing a strip down version run. Should be a beautiful game when done. Regardless of future support, the amount of time and quality he's doing should hold up well. U won't have rgb issues like woz, he's using regular 555 and 44 led bulbs.

#202 5 years ago
Quoted from TaylorVA:

WOZ had issues beyond the LEDs though. If he is making only 20 games how many replacement parts will he do? Are owners being given the opportunity to order extra plastics or other items?

I'm not sure, but with the time he's spending and the attention to details I'm sure he has those plans as well.

#213 5 years ago
Quoted from cyber:

But also with all 21 one it's going to be hard to ever see one of these.

There's going to be 2 or 3 in mass if he sticks to his original total of 22

#221 5 years ago

scary 4 years!!! and not one game shipped or shown completed and working

i guess he can get away with that longer since theres a block from public pitch forks drumming up the real buyers egos

#240 5 years ago

Wow, 21 people put $17k three years ago and he just increased it to 60 games!!!!
That sucks, still will be unobtainum but sucks for the initial 21

#245 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Haha, yep, you got it WC, at least 50k!
Well, I think the reality hit for John that you can't possibly make 17 or 21 pinball machines and not go broke no matter how much you charge for them. Need quantity discounts along with covering all the fixed overhead, which is exponentially less than Stern and JJP.
Jpop is like an early Steve Jobs of pinball! A freaking perfectionist, but the end result will be phenomenal.
As for cash flow for business, what startup doesn't need it?
Like i said, the big reveal is "coming very soon" and for Jpop, he needs to get it out there to drive sales and enthusiasm of his brand and AIW.
You saw his KISS artwork. What we've seen so far is like a piece of art. F it, I might just set it up and do nothing but turn the lights on and look at the damn thing!

Would make more sense for jpop to get a loan, keep extra 39 games and sell them for 50k each if that's the case

#251 5 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Breaks down to him spending 300% of budget really. Expected to take 1.5 years and require x whitewoods. It will end up taking 4.5 years and 3 (???) x whitewoods. You don't want our man thrown out on the street do ya? This approach will probably factor into his decision of how many RAZA's to make when that time arrives.

No I want him to succeed. I'm just being silly

#257 5 years ago

Boutique shop loses its name when u pump out 1k games of one title. And his production room looks like it fits 8 games at a time!

#259 5 years ago

Jjp will not be doing jpop games...unfortunately

#262 5 years ago

Some people make better workers then Buisness men! It's like Michael Jackson surrounding himself with people who just never tell him no, or stop , or that's enough.. He will just keep going and going... The things going to be a piece of art for sure..

1 month later
#326 5 years ago

Worse pr move I ever seen... Great seminar, really shows how much love and dedication he's put into it for us. Then at the end pulls out raza transglass sees people pull out cameras and puts it away. Was out for two seconds literally.. Someone post a pic I know a few got it... But great way to make people give him money.. Don't show them after u say in the beginning u would!

#333 5 years ago


#340 5 years ago

Jpop will drill out a hole the plexi will show a led toy inside the cabinet. Plexi is installed hole not drilled yet

#350 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Wait till you see what it does on the completed game

No doubt.. Only problem is that key word.... Wait!

#351 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

Pinball news has a photo of the backglass.

Even worse, what's the point of hiding it then when he says he will show it to the crowd

#447 5 years ago

Worst pr move showing up to expo with all these new company's showing the big laboswki, hobbit, p3, twd... All these guys taking preorder money all weekend... Jpop with nothing to show lost money not showing anything...I'm sure it will be amaze balls when done.. When n n n n n

#470 5 years ago
Quoted from Billy16:

This all seems like a lot of smoke and mirrors--"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"
Hope I'm wrong , would love to see these games hit the street.

It's real no smoke and mirrors the guys just overly protective and a perfectionist. It's hurting him at this point. But when he ever gets done it will be forgotten the time frame... Unless he never gets finished.

#478 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Agree on the secrets thing. Like putting the translite away. Get the patents , do the art and show it. If you show it we will all Know it's yours hide it and if it's stolen who would Know?

The stupid part of hiding the glass is it was up on pinball news or something when I asked if anyone got a picture of it... Why tell people they can see it hold it up for a second see people pull out cameras and quickly hide it? U said they can see it wtf is that shit?

#479 5 years ago

I'm sure who ever owns the rights to the movie mars attacks will come after him for using a alien that looks exactly like theirs does


#481 5 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

I think it's likely that by next expo it has an entirely new art package

Naa just a empty Alice in wonder land cabinet by then...

#484 5 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Sounds like maybe Topps still owns them?
Warner brothers licensed it:

There ya go. Like jack said at expo. Give it to pinside they can find anything!

#488 5 years ago
Quoted from Multiball1:

Iceman, you've said this a number of times in numerous blogs. Forget RAZA for a second, with regards to only Magic Girl how many is he making in total and can you please site the exact source of this information? Not challenging you, but I'm a MG "owner" and I haven't heard this at all.
I know you believe this to be fact but upon inquiry of this exact issue I was told by numerous sources that it's not the case. Multiple sources have told me 25 games in total. I know the initial was 17 with the contractual right to produce up to 25 games.

I've been told he is upping the number around 40 mg games... That he has to. That's from multiple sources in the know.

#496 5 years ago
Quoted from Multiball1:

So is anyone saying their source is JPOP?

The original source is... Unless he changes his mind its a done deal.. U should call him, if he answers the phone after u chase him for a while he should own up to it... Cost was more then expected, certain parts need to be made in a certain total amount to get made, stern putting blocks in the road making him find his own vendors instead of ones stern uses, having to redesign ever mech not using Wms parts, ect ect... He's had lots of hurdles. Again I'm sure the games when done will be amazing I can't wait to play them. But close n dagger, and fight club is the way it has to be. Protection of his patents too

#498 5 years ago

I'm guessing he didn't get the ok from the current or former owner of the Wms rights. Why? I know stern made things like vendors not help him and other company's. no one will legally say that though its just a rumor

#508 5 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

Ponzi scheme anyone? Look, there was no way Jpop was ever going to make enough money selling 17 MGs to pay for the design, art, coding, parts, and manufacturing effort. I'd hope his customers would be less interested in the investment value and more interested playing his games outside of 17 people's basements. WTF hobby are we in exactly?

He was off for sure. But there's no way he could know he would have to start everything from scratch and have no vendor support from the ones helping others

#510 5 years ago
Quoted from Multiball1:

I respect what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree with you, but understand Magic Girl sold at a $17k price tag when BBB was trading at $12k and ACDC BIB could be purchased NIB for approximately $7.5k. Nobody can honestly say that regardless of how talented he is, a $17k price tag on a JPOP game didn't significantly factor in the intrinsic value of exclusivity. Heck, why does ACDC BIB and LTBR trade at a significant premium to a premium if not for that same reason?

At the time it was 17 magic girls. There was no talk of other games just the 17 mg games and that was it. So investment was there in exclusivity. If he pushed the game out in a year or two the game would be worth more then the 17k the day it shipped. That's what drew the deposits, and his talent as a great designer.

#513 5 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Magic Girl was initially just 13 games according to RGP.

Yes then 17 then 21.. Now 40 something

#521 5 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

Hold ON WTF, I have NEVER been notified the number of magic girls was increasing to 40, I've been waiting 3 years, I emailed John last week and asked you if this was true, you never replied, no problem I'll call you, but IF this is true, you have some nerve increasing the number now after 3 years, we had a contract, If you do this you are breaking the contract, how about some answers?

If he hasn't changed his mind again this is the plan I'm told 40 ish...

#548 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The patents have long ago run out on those WMS parts.
In the USA, Design patents last 14 years, Utility patents last 20 years

I'm not sure how the patents work and I do know he had issues getting the ok for certain things.

#549 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Why would PPS be blocking Jpop?
It's not like he is violating any patents.
It's not like he is stealing stuff out their backdoor.
If anything, PPS could/should be an ally selling spare parts, translights, cab decals, for Jpop's games.

I didn't say pps... But like jack he couldn't get certain vendors. One company that was supposed to build a amp for jack said yes. When stern found out the pressure was out on to say no cause he also did stern stuff. Which made it land into my hands. Things like that happened to jpop for sure

#551 5 years ago

Either way when its done it will be amazing..his pr Buisness needs some help lol.

#553 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Has anyone mentioned that the translite also has Robbie the Robot? Did he license that?

Didn't see that... He must have asked for license work?

#557 5 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

AGREED as of right now John has not told me he's changing the amount of MG's so frankly it's a rumor started by Iceman who I don't even know. As an owner of MG and RAZA it would be nice to be better informed.

It's not a rumor Iceman started.i heard it before he ever said it. it's a fact that its been said and jpop plans as of right now. U should call him

#573 5 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

I was going to update the blog but I can't post on Wordpress from my phone.
Flying home in 2 hours...
The tour was really cool
May not be for everyone with the long wait but when it gets completed it will be ballsy

Deff will when it finally gets done

#576 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

I was super excited when I first got in on RAZA. I know there has been some cool stuff on the blog, but it is all shown in enough of a vacuum that I don't have any real idea what the playfield layout is, much less the game play. I know a lot of the art and a lot of the individual features, but I have no idea about how it fits together.
I have also been confused about the predominance of aliens and lack of actual zombies. When you step back and think about the artistic beauty JPOP is known for, it is hard to imagine zombies in this context, although Spooky did create an aesthetically pleasing zombie character. This has always felt more alien invasion to me than zombie apocalypse. Not sure why he's gone that way.
I'm crazy, but I'm actually in on 5 pre-orders at the moment, one of them being JPOP's RAZA. Unfortunately I've lost all my enthusiasm over this game as I just can't see the finish line. I don't want to get out, because I think (hope) it will be awesome some day. But frankly, even if I wanted to sell my spot, who would be willing to buy their way in now anyway. JPOP has pooched this entire situation and screwed anyone who might need to back out in the process.
I've paid in half way on this and while I'm not totally assuming my money is gone, I've gotten to the point where I'll be really excited when (if) I find out I owe the rest because the game is ready. I don't have this level of skepticism with any of the other pre-orders, even though several are technically with lesser know commodities.

If I'm told right even the mg owners haven't seen a flipping game or full working populated pf layout

#582 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Uhhh, yeah, I'm with you 1000% on that. We are all in the same boat with the secrecy thing!
Obviously at least 25 other people knew about the additional MG's long before I ever said anything, and as far as that goes, no idea how that could be some secret anyhow or the fact that some of the original 25 didn't know?
But then it started at 13, went to 17 and then to 25. You guys should want 50, otherwise its not gonna get done. He's gonna need the $$$ to complete them.
As for the communication, he's just the "mad professor", that needs an assistant to say the least!

This is spot on in every sentance!

Get this man a drink on me!

#652 5 years ago

Well with twd out and his theme having zombies as well I'm guessing the whole retro zombie thing ended up gearing toward Robbie robot and the alien guy. Makes sense they are both 50-60s retro aliens. Retro alien zombie adventure

#658 5 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Before the tour...
Expo Cabinets
There was a few people in the online world disappointed that john brought two cabinets to expo rather than a prototype of MG.
Are you one of those people?
But how close did you look at just the cabinet?
Comparing just cabinets in the pinball world, this might be the nicest cabinet made for a production game ever.
The design and space is huge and really rad with the LCD placement. There is a lot of custom stainless steel on that bad boy.
The mounted transformer in the cab is really big and beautiful.
The head design is retro yet modern, very neato design.
I'm glad he made an entirely new design versus the Williams cabs that I think all the other companies have followed more or less. This innovation takes time and money. It's this high level of craftsmanship that John is striving for throughout his entire game!
Hopefully John can continue his passion and be able to create pinball for us and everyone to enjoy. This cabinet is the Zidware cabinet that he plans to use on all three of his new games.
I know john is really proud of his new cabinets so it must have stung if he reads the online threads but the most vocally upset people haven't seen the cab in person! Ironic. Once people didn't see a playfeild in there they immediately dismissed the cabinet.
I have seen the cabinet, it is really awesome, IMO of course.

saw the cabinets a long time ago...the mystic has worn off on those..saw the art long ago too...

#660 5 years ago

complete view of bare play fields, white wood, or even a cad drawing of a bare play field would have been good to see...the patents dont cover play field art...and a 8" corner of one doesnt count as shown lol

#667 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Those currently not in on a JPop game and do not have their money on the line right now:
Please do not fan the flames, take a victory lap for getting out previously, or generally troll this thread.
Obviously, there are issues going on with this matter, give it a couple days to see if JPop addresses the obvious criticism he is under from his existing customers. Perhaps he will smooth it out, perhaps he will not - regardless, no reason for those who do not have a vested interest to speculate for the next 48 or so hours.
I'm not saying not to post in this thread or restricting posting to only those with an interest, just post responsibly...

this is the same treatment jjp, stern, dutch, vonnie, and every other maker gets on here... no one is violating his nda. well maybe the one guy posting a pf picture is lol....but its been a very smooth thread, no name calling. u kinds shocked me u posted that if i dont have my money still in i should step back and not talk about the games...i completely respect you tiger, dont take it as disrespect if i continue to put my 2 cents in this thread as i want to see him succeed but i can view how i see, know , and feel about things...

#668 5 years ago
Quoted from Magic_Mike:

Once you patent something, it becomes public domain forever.
....Including the pictures of the patent!
Too bad you can't keep Google out of your secret squirrel club.

patent.jpg 79 KB

boom goes the dynomite lol

#677 5 years ago
Quoted from TaTa:

Those playfields look horrible. I'm so glad that a real estate deal feel through before I paid for a spot up for sale last week on a RAZACT. People need to drop stroking this guy and relieve that the greatest sometime fall real hard. And this is becoming one of those times.

From what I've seen of better play field magic girl pics the colors looks great. Raza pf I haven't seen much of. Magic girl looked great

#699 5 years ago

In guessing on this statement so don't call it as fact.

My guess is since the platform for magic girl, zombie adventure, alice is the same that he is using a portion of the money for each game toward magic girl. Ur seeing some work on raza for that reason to justify him spending some of the money on magic girl. But he's still way under. The worst has got to be coin taker in this deal. If he gave money for his 25 special edition games to be made he's taking the biggest beating of the group if he did.

#701 5 years ago

With all this talk I hope jpop revealed a working game next week to show his funders its coming...

#705 5 years ago

Bingo. Ya Ben was the guy in the translight originally

#716 5 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Can understand the eggshells... but at the same time he can't just take your money cause he's pissed off. So, at worse he could kick you out by refunding your money. Maybe as you guys get fired up, this becomes more an acceptable risk of a result if it came to that?

There's no refunds...

#717 5 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I forgot about that...yeah that was ugly then it had to turn into an apology-fest to get things back on track. At one point slapshot confronted him about giving a date or revising the timeline schedule and that got ugly too. A few days later we got a "I need to work on that" and the timeline never materialized either. It's definitely an eggshell situation because we all have a lot of skin in the game and if you say the wrong thing...


#724 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I love that idea, and the illustrations and vibe look sweet. I have no doubt the art on the playfield and plastics and toys (whatever is even done) looks great too. Just struck me as odd that with all that creativity he was borrowing known (and pretty damn famous at that) character designs.

Aurich u should do a revised translight like u did jjp cabinet... That would be comical and probably cooler

#733 5 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

I'm not happy the games are taking so long, but i believe they will be complete and worth the wait or else i would have tried to get out too.
Honestly i was worried before taking the tour, but I think the progress he's made since last year is really good.

So ur estimate is another year? Or less or more for magic girl to be completed before production begins?

#747 5 years ago

How's the private thread going. Still crickets?

#769 5 years ago
Quoted from roc-noc:

I am truly ashamed to be a member of Pinside when I see what is happening here.
This is Pinside at its worst!
This is a lynch mob and all you naysayers are just fanning the flames and stroking your own egos. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I thought Pinside's mission was too help Pinball. Since when does a lynch mob or a court order do anything positive in order to get pinball machines made?
There are many of us that still believe in Jpop. We all knew the risks when we signed up Jpop pins but we believed that the potential rewards outweigh the risks. Some of us are willing to take those risks. If that has changed, then sell your position at what the market will bear.
If you are not a risk taker, then crawl back under that rock you crawled out from and leave Jpop alone. Stop fanning the flames.
I am not the only one who believes in Jpop and feels disgust with Pinside and the members in this thread.

I'm not saying that some people havnt taken it a little too far here, but there's people who want out of the project and can't sell there spots cause of the situation jpop has put them in. If anything this is the problem that's been brought to others attention. I don't think saying things like he has depression, or stuff is appropriate cause its not. He has a nada, the buyers can't talk about there games, they can't get refunds, and its been three years where they still haven't seen a fully working game. I'm sure it is a mostly working game, he's got 3-6 populated mg. they should just be not be afraid to get info from him. Hope it works out for them all I'm looking forward to playing them when they ship.

#772 5 years ago

Nice, maybe that will help the guys selling there spots to move them easier

#776 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I just posted this to his blog:
Thanks for the updates, John. I do want to keep insisting for some answers to questions asked including an updated time line for the project. I appreciate your heart felt post, but I still have no idea what YEAR i might expect the game.
I’m sure I can speak for all of us when I say we all know you have the best of intentions, the quality of the work is beyond debate, but the transparency has been poor and questions have gone unanswered, and still are.
Not trying to be a ball buster. Just want some straight answers to some straight questions. Thanks.


#777 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

Magic girl looks great!

Yes, it's going to be beautiful. People will be lining up for the extra games if he showed it. I'm sure

#789 5 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

The 'look' of it has never been in question. John makes pretty stuff, sure. But one might ask why is it this goofy fisheye shot instead of a clear view of the entire thing?

Cause that's John still controlling and hiding his work from the masses. Is what it is not going to change

#791 5 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Or the ramps still aren't done.

U can see the ends of the ramps in the picture.. He's just controlling hiding the main new designed toys and what not.

#796 5 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

You can see the glued together ends of the pieced together test ramp, sure.

Better then no ramps I guess... Hopefully he shows the buyers more privately

#816 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

I think you have to give credit to John for the letter that was posted on the private blogs that he asked to have posted here. He acknowledged, as he has before on the private blogs, that there was much more to do than he realized and that it has taken much longer than he realized. He also acknowledged that he has made mistakes and that The Big Lebowski looked great.
At the time I sent him my initial two payments, I got in to RAZA a few months in, I had access to the RAZA blog and could e-mail John. Everyone realized that giving money to a brand new company for a pinball machine that existed only in very cool drawings took a significant amount of faith. We weighed the risk of failure vs. the upside of having a limited machine that is likely to be one of the best ever and chose to send the money.
Things are where they are at this point. John has admitted that he underestimated the task and I'm sure he did not contemplate that suppliers would not come through for a variety of reasons. John obviously does not have a huge staff or a PR department. I am sure that he was so involved with the cabinet build and proud of its quality that he had no idea he would be disappointing owners by not showing more. Now, he does know that. He also knows that he needs to respond with some sort of timetable beyond the estimates of people who have toured his facility.
When this all came to a head, he responded with an honest, public message explaining how things got to this point.
Lets all take a deep breath, give John a second to take in all that has happened and move forward with more communication on both sides.
I'm sure that John wants good relations with his buyers so that he will have more buyers in the future.
If some people are unwilling to accept the explanation for the delays, then I'm sure he will find some way to satisfy them.

Deff needed to happen, glad u guys are getting more info. Hopefully that's not the last titbit picture u see for 6 more months and he offers a timetable to show u guys a working table even if its not in completed form. U guys deserve more info that can't make it to his shop.

#819 5 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

guys it is pretty simple. Jpop, personally is not responsible and all agree it is his LLC. Given that, If someone wants their money back they would file suit and eventually (lots in between here) get in front of a judge who would then decide whether or not it is a valid claim. If it is, and due to the amount of time I believe this is the case, the judge would then ask the LLC to pay back what is owed. If the LLC cannot, it is insolvent and a Court ordered receiver would be appointed to rip the LLC apart, find what assets it has, and distribute on a pro rata basis to all creditors who have "signed up" or are involved. If the LLC can pay claim back business continues as per usual.
I really don't have an issue here and there would be a whack of arguments on both sides the LLC and the creditors but by principle I my self have to sit back here and ask myself, did I get into this because I love pinball and did I know there was possibility this would never get done? Of course I did so there is no way I would be the one to force the LLC into insolvency. I am not saying anyone needs or has to feel the way I do, it's just what I knew in my brain when I handed over my hard earned cash. I myself don't even have access to the private form which i'm sure is no more than my bad computer skills and misplacing an email from John that did give me the access and a code? Rambling, sorry. Lets let him get this done and really I don't think there will be much less there NOT letting him try to finish to be honest.

Even if jpop ran out of the money to actually make the games by using it all up on company build up and design build up he could get a loan to build the games, increase the totals to offset the cost of the loan and make the games. He's far enough along that there's that option if it were a issue. Again it's nice to be informed what ur rights are from knowledgable guys here in law. Your talking hypothetical scenario no one is saying go sue him.

#823 5 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Exactly i am saying the opposite. There is no point. there will be more there in LLC letting him finish. For anyone to consider starting the Avalanche (see Rob T's comments) its really just not good business. If he was out on his 50 ft Yacht with a martini in his had (sounds more like me) then yes but he is working his fingers to the bones and this letter proves this! Let it be!

He'll be fine, just push him along

#826 5 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Get a lawyer and you can get a refund. But first ask nicely in writing. Refunds are available when a contract is breached. No one should be held in at this point if they want out.

I know there is raza people looking for refunds. Is anyone on mg looking for one? I think there's a waiting list on that

#837 5 years ago
Quoted from Redeyes:

WOW.. well with that ALL being said anyone who wants in on RAZA PM me please! thanks!

If it was a mg I could have helped u

#839 5 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

I'm with RobT. That was a nice jpop post and I'm pulling for you guys. I just hope that doesnt buy a year of silence. He needs to give you guys a schedule and update on milestones

Ya, u guys should have more then the one shot we saw. It doesn't have to be released to us. But u guys in the private sector lol should have a full blown show down regardless if its done

#843 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

John posted this on facebook today:
a new term I learned.....""The Lebowski Effect" - the outcome of showing a new game concept, exactly and early on it's it's entirety to the masses to create surprise, comradery and extreme happiness"
I think he gets it.

So he's basically saying he hiding it from u longer and waiting till its done to show u... Am I wrong or is that the interpretation? How is that good for u guys

#847 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

I took it to mean that he saw how well the Lebowski reveal, with bare bones code, was received and realizes that he should show more sooner. I guess we will see.

Ahh I get ya.. Cool hopefully that's what he meant

#876 5 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

LOL, whose interest does that serve?
... in the interest of me wanting to know all about it, please violate your NDA for no benefit to yourself.

I would violate the nda but then I might get sued and he would have the money to complete mg

#911 5 years ago

U know, UL testing hasn't even happened yet. That's another bunch of time when he finished a working prototype. Send the game off for testing is big money and more time.

#921 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

He definitely didn't answer all the questions, but he has been producing a flood of info on the owner blog that is showing cool stuff we haven't seen and shedding a light on progress we didn't know was happening. Don't expect to get continually updated now that owners are feeling pacified.
I still have some questions about true status, dates, etc. However, I think John is showing more of his hand to owners, which he should have done all along, because of the "Lebowski Effect" as he put it. I hope he answers all the questions soon, but I'm pleased to see what he's shown in the last few days.


#933 5 years ago

I would jump in line if he extends the count and I don't have to wait another two years for mg

#938 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I wonder what would have happened if jpop had the games at TBL level (flipping games with alpha software but completed artwork) and was able to show them at this year's expo? HE would have been the belle of the ball.
expo 2015 will have Pat Lawlar's new game, likely DP #2, Heighway #2 and maybe #3, Stern with who knows what, P3. Harder and harder to stand out.
Just seems this 2014 expo was a missed opportunity, but if nothing else it hammered home a large point and hopefully we will get our games well before expo '15.

His magic girl will still be better then anything out looks wise. Doesn't really matter cause he's not mass producing anything. It will just be a show off fest for those not on order and a drool fest for those waiting...

#940 5 years ago

I don't think there are any shows in December. Likely private reveal to the buyers. Then it will be up to jpop if they can release any pictures or info. Based on the shit he took I don't think jpop would use pinside as a outlet for reveal work. My only guess other then private would be a pinball news reveal

#972 5 years ago

Just assuming the game won't be a complete working prototype till Decembers reveal. The game will be about a 10-12 months before they ship. UL testing, having vendors make the parts in final design quantity with quality control from jpop, wire harness builds, building the actual games. U won't see mg ship soon, but we will see the quality and craftsmanship by December.

#980 5 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Jpop told me in person Stern came in half way through and scooped it on him. Its Gene Simmons...its all about the money not the art or game play!

Good it will be another Rolling Stones for them I'm sure

#983 5 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

I'm sure most will disagree, but in my view of the world, if Stern knew Jpop was in talks with them and swooped in to take it, while not illegal by any means, does strike me as scummy.
If they did not know and it was just something they were pursuing since they have been doing a series of old rock and roll bands, then no harm no foul.
If KISS liked the idea from jpop, and decided to shop it around and brought it to Stern, then hard to hold it against Stern, but would have been nice if they passed on it, if they knew Jpop had been pursuing it. Not saying I would have expected Stern to do that, but would like to see that type of behavior in such a small ecosystem, no matter how unrealistic that is.

This was the way of the world when capcom,Wms, and data east ruled. Welcome to the Buisness world

#994 5 years ago

Assuming he has the money, or the help to put the engine in the train.

#1024 5 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

Jpop got sidetracked with Ben Heck on BHZA, got sidetracked with KISS, got sidetracked again with AIW, imagine if he focused all that energy on MG? 17 happy customers!

No it's 40-50 now. And it's confirmed 21 since the last time it was 17 total.

#1031 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I think my suggestion/prediction is going to come true!
Jpop is going to team up on a joint venture basis with JJP. It's a marriage made in heaven. He can help them obviously and John certainly needs the "outside muscle"!
Stay tuned.


#1033 5 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

I've seen production numbers 13, 16, 17, 19, 21, 25, 26, and 40-50 published in various articles, web sites and discussion forums. I'm sure one of those numbers is accurate.
Interesting thought...I wonder how many current customers would complain if he dropped the price by 40-50% and produced 10x as many? It would be a mixed reaction of "oh no I lose exclusivity" and "I get MG plus another game for free" followed by hundreds of happy new customers... all pending proper manufacturing setup, which will help provide incentive and timeframe guidance for Jpop to get his first game to completion.

I think 90% of the 17-21 would complain a lot. They did put up all the money, part of which was for exclusivity. I know three of the 17 that wouldn't be happy.

#1034 5 years ago

Regardless I'm sure the 17 will be happy come December when they see the complete game

#1037 5 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Hope not, because then I'll absolutely not buy his product regardless of what it is.

Don't worry it's not

1 week later
#1076 5 years ago

It takes a LOT to get a machine fully working.

Ya, but everyone else has done flipping games in less time. Regardless of how crazy his will be

#1088 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

3 weeks after this thread blew up, I still never got any of my questions answered unfortunately. Still have no idea what year I might see RAZA.
It will be helpful for MG to be shown to the world next month. But I have no idea how much is left with RAZA, and how long it will take to produce 120 machines. If the Spooky standard of 2 machines per week is realistic, and without a factory or huge workforce that probably is a reasonable number, and RAZA isn't completed till end of '15... it is likely '16 before many if any see their game.
But I am GUESSING because I have NO IDEA on any of this. John's response at the time bought a few weeks of quiet, but we're pretty much at the same spot. Are MG owners seeing any more info about anything?

The only thing ur going to see is two more Christmas seasons go by before u get ur game

#1104 5 years ago

Hope when December comes its a close to completed code and not just a flipping game. If not u guys will be waiting another year. It's going to take 6 months just to build them when the parts come in... And I'm talking about magic girl, never mind raza

#1116 5 years ago
Quoted from Kerry_Richard:

Iceman... RE: Zombie Adventure
Maybe JPop will take on the attitude that Gene Cunningham did for Big Bang Bar, back in 2003-05. He was going to finish the game, even if it cost him $$$.

Gene had much deeper pockets then jpop does. Big diff

#1120 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

What concern of this is yours?
Provocative comments from those standing on the sidelines serve no purpose here other than macho bluster and stir the shit. I imagine you are one of those that have a permanent seat in the peanut galley of life. And you stroke your ego by sniping at those actually participating.
Again I ask, what concern of this is yours?

U can use these freely I found them for u


#1122 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

He can not explain it adequately and he knows loud and clear this is a bone of contention. Your point is valid and JPOP knows it.
Look, please don't misunderstand my other post. I want and appreciate constructive criticism from Pinside. Much of the past criticism here I have used as my own words in some very heated conversations with JPOP.
Some of you guys on the outside are acting like the owners are just cattle standing around. Individually and now collectively JPOP is feeling the heat.
So feel free to keep the criticism coming. But knock off the keyboard boasting of what others should do or what a tough guy you'd be "if" you were in on this.

#1129 5 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

Do you have access to JPop's bank accounts or tax return statements?

Lol, if I did I would give out raza refunds

#1137 5 years ago

Easy men... Points well taken. Lets not kill each other... How's Christmas looking with the updated u customers have seen this month?

#1153 5 years ago

So since no one follows the schedule for delays and what not magic girl will be the end of 2015 and raza will never get made cause he will have run out of money by then...

#1154 5 years ago

When u hear 2016 that doesn't mean 125 games appear in January, your basically two years away on raza that's crazy

#1168 5 years ago

Well u can bet pats game will ship before raza

#1183 5 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

I think 2016 is a reasonable assumption for RAZA at this point. JPOP has said that his plan is to have "Lebowski" type reveal of MG in December 2014. Dutch Pinball revealed TBL 7-9 months ahead their self imposed production start (Q2 2015). Assuming JPOP can stick to the same schedule (highly unlikely given his current organization's size) he will not begin production on MG until Q4 of 2015. During ramp up to and actual production I am guessing that he he will have less than zero time to devote to RAZA and AIW; which will push their schedules even further out.
All of this could change if he is able to secure the hinted partnership with a third party that can provide the muscle to push production forward. Otherwise, I would say that the above schedule may even be a bit optimistic given JPOP's track record for wanting to achieve perfection at every level.
It has been said before (probably somewhere in this very thread) but John really needs an equal collaborator. Someone who is willing to say when something is good enough or that it is time to move on from an idea that is never going to come to fruition. I think having a team of designers and collaborators has helped DP get to where they are with TBL much faster than John has with any of his three projects. They have been willing to give up on certain design elements that they just could not make work and focus on the end goal much more efficiently.
I really hope that John can find a partner to help him become an efficient, productive visionary and not, instead, wind up a genius tinkerer who was never able to see his designs become a reality. He is one of only a handful of people in this business who wants to always look ahead and push the pinball envelope.

Hard to find a partner to take on half the debt when there's no profit left. Unless he increase the build quantity.

#1184 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I think a lot of us got that feeling for WOZ. I dropped out relatively early, too - I can't imagine what it was like for those still waiting for their games to the bitter end - especially LE buyers who saw Standars shipping first and the Ruby Red reveal. The only pre-orders I'm on right now are MMr and BOP 2.0, and those have had their delays...but at least I know they're right around the corner. European customers are getting their BOP 2.0s & I've played MMr and have seen it at Stern.
It'll be interesting to see Jpop's "Lebowski-esque" reveal...perhaps the true make it or break it point for you guys with money on his projects.

So a reveal of a working but not completed code mg in December will pump people up... Still a long way to go and a lot of money to build them... Plus raza will get shelved while he over sees mg builds... Raza is so down the road it's sad...

#1187 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Well as far as I can tell, all he has is art and gadgets. If he can actually show that he's capable of a game that flips the ball...that would go a long way. Sure, the game's still probably 10 years from completion, but I think that would calm the secret club at least.

Yes from what I have seen play field arts done, cabinets done, play field plastics done, ramps done... Proto boards done, I'm guessing code to make it a flipping game is issue? Will be beautiful when he gets there. At least there will be three proto done for real

#1189 5 years ago

I have a great idea... Give me $10k we'll go around back, ill kick u in the nuts and we can call it a day?

Fuck lol

#1200 5 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

When Zid's games finally release they are gonna be worth their weight in gold. If someone could honestly say that about WOZ I'll do a back flip~

IF they finally release

#1201 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

John needs to cut a deal with JJP. They need a designer and he needs production.
Ok problem solved! Happy times

I bet jacks reading this and shaking his head, and its not up and down lol

#1207 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Damn Sadsack is JPOP banging your old lady or something? Sounds like you have some pent up rage going on there brosef.... It's only pinball!

Its only pinball ... And $10k-$17k for a bunch of people

#1209 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Yea and I'm one of those people...

After seeing inside what jack had to go through to get woz done I bailed. I Was raza #8

I feel bad for the group that still are waiting

#1210 5 years ago

I want him to finish but man the time frame is crazy now.

#1218 5 years ago

They will get to see cabinets

#1229 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I don't accept that. I've got the schedule sitting on my desk of the project I paid to get in on. The answer is rip it up, forget about it, and maybe a machine shows up years from now?
Probably time for me to go... if refunds were available.

One does not simply get a refund lol

I'm sure if he shows a game in January someone will get excited and buy ur spot

#1249 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Sending an email to Jpop telling him your speculations about his finances, expenses, and "impending bankruptcy" strikes me as pretty foolish. If you want to cancel, fine. Telling him you're doing so because you're afraid he's about to go bankrupt is nothing but pure conjecture on your part.
Believe me, I'm as frustrated as anyone on this. But cancel based off what you know (or in this case what we don't know), not based on what you make up in your head.

We do know he needs to raise the game quantity to build the mg cause he ran out of money to build them. We don't know when he will actually build them. Frustration was expo... Few more weeks should put things to bed on some issues but likely raise more!

#1254 5 years ago

Developing parts, building rent, paying his small crew a salary, and the big one is patent work... The amount of money to file for patents is in the thousands. Generally it's minimal to start. But after a year to continue the patent process can cost upwards of $8-10k each patent... $800k is not a lot of money to go through for this type of Buisness.

#1262 5 years ago

Raza is so far off from build, mg I wouldn't be surprised to see 2-3 full proto next month... But what the build time after that will be is the next issue... The last issue is who does the warranty work lol

#1265 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Who does the warranty work for a 20k BBB?

Who DID the warranty work for gene? that's a good question as I wasn't in on that game back then... Any original bbb owners want to chime in how gene handled warranty work the first year after he shipped games... O ya that's right that game design was already done with a tried and tested existing board system, not started from the ground up with all new systems that are untested.!!

#1266 5 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

I will be completely floored if the MG reveal has anything more than rudimentary code and animation. I would say that will be a lengthy process to get through before production begins. DP's timeline for TBL has allowed for 7-9 months of code/rules/dots development between physical reveal and production start and most of their animation is provided by the IP. I still see a long road ahead before owners have MG in their possession.

He's said for a while now he has new core of fresh fish doing code and LCD work... They have been around for a while, hopefully it's more then a flipping game. I'm not sure would be nice if it was more, but as John shows u nothing is ever not finished he can make it better

#1268 5 years ago

Was in on two mg now just a piece of one, and refunded on raza #8 cause I had a feeling mg would get done and raza would be left holding the bag... But I'll be delightfully wrong if he gets there

#1270 5 years ago

Spilt the cost of a game with someone. Piece of it!

Glad ur on mg... Feel bad for raza guys

#1331 5 years ago

Please Jesus help me
Magic girl $17
Retro atomic zombie adventure $10k

Can we move along.. Don't start bitching about the price. It's been set for three years. If ur new to the notion of this no one else is shocked

#1344 5 years ago

ill give u $$ for ur spot....o wait naaa just stirring the pot

#1358 5 years ago
Quoted from VGC1612:

Is preorder for RAZA are sold out?

I bet he just got 10 pms lol

#1404 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Doubt it. 50 for the entire planet is nothing. There are 200 BBBs that sold for $4500 NIB and are now sold for $30k NIB. MG will be fine. I'd be more concerned about it ever being built period than it's future profitability.

Just a theory, if all 200 bbb came up for sale at the same time they would not fetch 30k... Hypothetically

#1405 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Doubt it. 50 for the entire planet is nothing. There are 200 BBBs that sold for $4500 NIB and are now sold for $30k NIB. MG will be fine. I'd be more concerned about it ever being built period than it's future profitability.

But in all seriousness people got on at 17k cause of the rarity and opportunity for a investment as well... That has to be part of their thinking on that purchase even if they don't admit it

#1465 5 years ago

Don't forget when/if u see the game this month your still close to a year before they get built and ship.

#1639 5 years ago

Mg unveil only gives hope to the mg buyers... Then buys him time on raza buyers to cool their heals but u shouldn't be IMO. U should continue to push for details.

#1723 5 years ago

The art and games are awesome.. Just wished he get his shit together..

#1730 5 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

I have a good feeling a working game will be revealed. Patience.

Of course u do. U havnt been around the last three years like us wAtching this. Ur around for the final steps...

#1732 5 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Really no need to get hostile. Did you really think a pinball machine would go from concept to production in less than 3 years? Especially one that's innovative, highly detailed and such a work of art? I feel bad people have waited so long, but trust me, the wait will be worth it. This pain will end soon enough.

Wasn't trying to be hostile.. Just came off that way..

It's been too long... Yes it will be amaze balls and people will throw more
Money at him this month when he shows it all.. If he shows it all.... But what he does after another influx of money will be important. He needs to take those funds finish the first game and ship... If he continues to move toward three and fourth title before first if compelted it's more of the same bullshit

#1782 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

We need to keep the pressure on John guys! I posted on the blog last night, I think if the owners go quiet on the blog John takes that as an all clear to go back to design mode rather than finish the F#cking game mode.
So if you are on the blog don't be shy, post some motivational thoughts for JPOP!

U should be fearfull of when he shows this amazing game this month. People will become delearious over how amazing it is, and it will buy him more time. But what if he doesn't get to building them for another year. What if he keeps tweaking and refining what he shows u this month for another 12 months.... Honestly, I know it's going to be art!!!! But I still think he's a year away from actually building the 40 plus mg games...

#1820 5 years ago

Says dec 17 .. Hour and a half till then tomorrow is game reveal day if he sticks to it. Private reveal day that is

#1839 5 years ago

It's a beautiful machine

#1849 5 years ago

We have page movement on the private thread!

#1861 5 years ago

Nothing yet. New page but link doesn't open yet

#1919 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Wtf? Just another disappointing milestone in the Jpop sad saga.
The NDA is a farce, somebody better start revealing something

More by midnight then more over the holidays... Patents still pending lol.. Those can take years by the way

#1989 5 years ago

not happening...nada still in full affect by his rules with all the new stuff hes showing over the next few weeks

#1994 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

not happening...nada still in full affect by his rules with all the new stuff hes showing over the next few weeks

hey im not saying i agree with it....just was stating what hes doing...lol hes negative not me

#2068 5 years ago

He's showing things slowly. Doing video of a working game to present the buyers.... If he continues to avoid giving hard dates after he shows stuff then I guess there will be issues... He's saying he still going to hold stuff back

#2085 5 years ago

Why am I getting shit on lol... I'm stating what he's saying and doing to the people who can't see it.. If u go back in this thread u can see I'm one of the guys shitting on this whole thing... The only thing I regret saying is no need to panic.. I don't know why I wrote that lol.
But I would love to see someone break the nada and post everything... He would probably cry and stop updating...

#2099 5 years ago

Does a watermark show up if u take a screen shot from ur phone lol...

#2122 5 years ago

For 150-200 game boutique I think his patent spending and lawyer fees probably are off the charts... Something he most likely didn't need to do.

#2124 5 years ago
Quoted from minnesota13:

I am risking getting some negatives on this post, but there is a way to obtain answers and perhaps move things off of dead center. Lodge a consumer complaint with the Illinois Attorney General.
It's free to do and will get Zidware's attention. You have paid money, have no product and no information. It appears that Zidware is operating a Ponzi type financing scheme but who knows? There is no product coming out the door and no reported schedule other than the original passed date.
Zidware is required to keep books and will have to show them to the AG.
Your name can be withheld from the complaint by request so that Zidware will not know who lodged the complaint. Multiple complaints will accelerate AG action.

It's not a Ponzi scheme, he's working towards building a game.. He's spent money doing so... He's just not getting it done timely and to his agreed time frame

#2138 5 years ago

I think the raza play field is fugly colored.

#2146 5 years ago

The money has to be spent.. I think that's why he wants to double the order for 21-40 something... The extra games would cover the cost to build the original list plus the extra 20

#2153 5 years ago

I would also think some of raza has to be spent on magic girl... The platform is the same as mg. he could easily say that some of the razA funds were used in developing the platform and were taken since its development was the end result

#2162 5 years ago

Coin taker the biggest fucked in these deals. He's in on mg and then his own 25 raza and put up lots of cash. Feel bad for him. Great guy

#2166 5 years ago
Quoted from Shrub_Light:

Don't know if you saw my post earlier, but I talked to Chris today and he said he's got way more invested than all of us. Great guy for sure!

Sucks jpop fuckin him too

#2185 5 years ago
Quoted from T-800:

Good luck getting that one through the USPTO - if it does then someone should go patent the wheel again. Multimorphic's P3 has been out for YEARS prior to this application, publicly, and I'm guessing has their own IP related to video screens interactive with a pinball in a pinball machine... Patents are not cheap to file, litigate, or maintain...

I know, we also wasted thousands of cash on patent stuff... At some point u have to realize the lawyer will be the only one making out!

#2186 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

All this talk of getting an updated timeline seems misplaced. He can just make up a new timeline, he's learned that missing self imposed deadlines are not that big of a deal...
What you guys really need is a full accounting, inventory and budget (the budget would be tied to some timeline. Here is what I would ask:
1) How much money has he taken in total from customers to date?
2) How much capital did he invest into the company from third parties or himself?
3) What is in the bank account as of today?
4) What is his cash burn rate monthly?
5) How much is his salary (broken down by each year of the project)?
6) What is the outstanding accounts payable not yet paid?
7) How much is left outstanding in pre-order money from people who have signed up (this is his only AR)?
Does he intend to contribute capital to the company moving forward and if so how much and when?
9) What are the assets of the company (mostly equipment I would presume)?
10) What is his inventory?
11) How much in parts does he need to build out MG in total? How about Raza?
12) What will the labor costs be?
13) Costs to pursue patents further and other weird intangible costs?
Once all this is answered you guys can decide the next step...and whether JPop is able to build the games even if he is inclined to do so.

This entire write up by tiger law would make jpop vomit, shit his pants, close up the shop, and quit pinball... Cause there's no way in hell he would divulge this info. I would love to see him respond with real world answers to these questions.

#2226 5 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Kaneda's girlfriend picture is stolen from the internet. Several examples, here is just one.

Wow, Kaneda didn't u know about the pinside police? They find everything, don't ever try to pass off a lie!

#2280 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Your self imposed ban from this thread for one week is accepted. Please honor the self imposed ban.
Everyone else, please do not bait kaneda into responding further.


#2409 5 years ago

Cabinet pics are opened