(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..

By iceman44

5 years ago

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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (2 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (2 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (2 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (2 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (2 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (2 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#2016 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Same was true for me. I bought in because of his background and experience. As he will tell you, he's one of only 2 people in the world that made pinball2000 games. I figured all that would mean something but I'm concluding with all these boutiques you need sound business management as well as the pinball design and passion.

::cough:: One of only 2 people in the world that *SHIPPED A* pinball2000 game ::cough::

#2055 5 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

That is honestly a very good question and the other side of this whole equation. Manufacturing and code development, presumably, are all still hurdles left to jump. Owners may demand that the games be shipped ASAP and that could force John into a situation where he has to decide to ship without incomplete code. At the rate we have seen JJP and Stern finish code with teams of programmers, I shudder to think what that will mean for someone like John.

I have offered to help him code in the past (couple years ago at this point?), nothing came of it though. I think the distance thing was an issue (IL vs MA)

#2058 5 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Apparently not, since the guy he DID have programming on contract was in another country. Until that ended.

Bummer. Well the offer still stands if he needs it.

#2060 5 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

He seems like someone hard to work for though.. unless you're very comfortable with uncertainty.

Meh, the timeline seems flexible enough to get it done

...I'm kidding I'm kidding. I don't have any money in his games, but I do feel bad for the peeps that do. Alice does interest me, though, like others have said, until something ships I'm not putting any money down.

#2340 5 years ago

Magic Girl looks cool visually and seems interesting layout-wise.

Taking too long? Sure, but looks cool none the less.

#2373 5 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

That art just needs to become large wall posters. Would sell a ton!

I'd buy some translates and playfield prints.

#2381 5 years ago

I'm sure there's a 3rd party storefront somewhere that provides sales and printing services (for a fee). Just provide them the art and print requirements. If he did something like that then not only would we get the art in a reasonable time span after payment, but it's also something he wouldn't need to be directly involved with.

#2382 5 years ago
Quoted from Jakenjoi:

And any time I have an artist illustrate something for me I will pay per each use, even if it's the same drawing.

Not something I do. I hire for art for my company. It is now my company's property. Use in a portfolio is fine after a certain date, but general usage and sales are not. I'm a bit old school when it comes to this stuff though. Do I pay more for it? Maybe, but then it's mine.

2 months later
#4024 4 years ago

Makes perfect sense to me. Many tri-colour leds and strips are 12v.

#4094 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:


And what's the problem exactly? :3

1 week later
#4746 4 years ago

For any creative project R&D takes a lot of time and can often show a large "waste" of time and money. However it is critical for these types of things. Remember, Stern has been working on (R&Ding) their new hardware for years before finally releasing it in Wrestlemania. Spending time and money for many months to years on design and testing must be done or a product will be a shadow of what it could be. I'm not defending all the tiny art tweaks or lack of flippable whitewood, but just saying proper R&D is rarely a waste in the long run.

Seeing as this is Zidware's first game, I'm not surprised at all to hear about multiple hardware trials or cabinet design (not artwork!) revisions. Get it right once and you're good for yeeeeeeeeeeears. Get it wrong and you're screwed.

2 weeks later
#5513 4 years ago

So, is John not going with Fast now?? I'm confused...

#5524 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Nope, nor Mission. When he announced that in October it was a lie, and the attempts to try it again didn't go anywhere.
No idea who's going to program Magic Girl, or if the hardware in it is final.
There's no emperor inside the clothes.

I know I'm basically a nobody in the pinball world, but maybe should try and contact him and see if he would like a game programmer to help out. I mean, even if it takes another 3 years to manufacture the games, it'd be nice to at least be able to play prototype machines no?

3 weeks later
#6793 4 years ago

$$$. Depends on how much time is needed and how complex the new features are. I'd charge ~$20K+ for a complete Totan overhall personally. Again, depends on what needs to be added, hardware already in place, software already in place, etc...

#6797 4 years ago
Quoted from Redeyes:

That's a lot of hours..

A complete overhaul.... Gotta assume it'll take at least 2 to 3 months of time to do it right. Good programmer's ain't cheap.

#6802 4 years ago
Quoted from nintendo:

Very interesting stuff. Nice to get an idea of how much the coding by itself would cost. This is just on the dmd's ($20k+), must be double that for the new Jersey Jack machines no?

More. Multiple years of coding with more then 1 programmer for those because of the extra complexity (among other reasons). Looking at over $100k minimum. Probably a lot more.

Same with Jpop's current games actually. If a programmer were to charge properly it'd be over $250k for all 3 games. Of course, that'd never happen... he'd be lucky to get anything at this point

#6899 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I can do the engineering, we could get FAST involved for the hardware and code, and maybe even convince Aurich to do the art.
I just don't want to see anyone lose more money.

Quoted from fastpinball:

Dream team? Lol there certainly is a crew of us eager to create some rad pinball. Baggage free!
FAST Pinball

Quoted from Aurich:

Hey, Heighway has proved that I'm happy to be involved in serious projects!

Want to get a game done quick? I have a secret whitewood I could wire up in about a month or two. A few people on here have seen it... Who should I send it to for programming? Fast? Then off to arch for art?

2 weeks later
#7811 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Only video I have seen on here recently was for Frozen. It wasn't flipping yet but appeared to be a real mockup. Time to ... Shutup and take my money, Frozen! Would this be considered a preorder or just a case of precipitation?

Frozen is mine. It is a 1-off I'm building for my daughter. I have no current intention of making it anything more then that for a variety of reasons.... and it flips and scores fine

#7821 4 years ago

5 months of: an hour here, a couple minutes there, I'll sleep on it, too busy this week to touch it, etc...

*cought* I mean.. *cough* 6 years... *looks around* 5 hours a night *cough* ...yeah.

#7864 4 years ago

AIW is a great IP, and I disagree with your comment about TBl vs AIW. If John had shipped MG, and RAZA was on its way to the production line, THEN AIW would be taken seriously and hav just as large of a following as TBL if not more because of John's proven technology and track records. Well, non of that happened because most people looked at AIW as game 3 and responded "where's game 1?!"

#7884 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

"Making pinball is hard"

Making pinball start to finish is very hard.

#7941 4 years ago

I sold my ToM last fall, I really miss it and regret I sold it. I expect to have another mint blinged out one in ~2 years or less that will not leave.

#7954 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

Ben is extremely talented in all sorts of ways but he's no Lyman or Keith. Those guys are in a league of their own. And they are very different in how they attack rules.

I write video games for a living so my style is different from both Keith and Lyman. I called jPop, no answer. Left a message, no callback. I have more important things to do then chase him down. So I stopped trying. Anyone who doesn't think I could bring one of those pins to life should come over play Haunted Cruise sometime. I know my shit, I play pinball competitively and know what those type of people expect, I have casuals play my games and know what they expect. I'm not saying I'm of the pinball-programmer caliber of Lyman or Keith, but frankly I'm not far off.

It sucks, I want these games to be completed as much as anyone else. If Magic Girl shipped and was of quality I would have been in for Alice.

#8023 4 years ago

There is a video of the MG playfield flipping, though it seems like a very old version of the game (video may be from a long time ago?)


#8248 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

- Nemo's planned run was 30, but the actual number of sold units is 14. I hope for him he will be able to sell the remaining 16 once the first batch is delivered.
- price was 4300 - 4425 euros (without sales tax; exact figure depends on coin door specification) around $5,000. Barely sustainable as the BOM was much higher than planned initially and Antonio had to redo / redesign / reorder a number of items - latest of them the ball trough because of non standard dimensions. Each single item that is not standard adds to cost and creates delays.

Now that I've seen the final package I want one of those other 16. Wasn't all that interested initially though which is why I didn't go in on the first batch.

#8324 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

"Kevin Kulek built this in a cave! With a box of SCRAPS!"
A flipping Whitewood is no big deal. Few thousand Tops or less if old used parts. You don't even need an OS just wire secondary coil winding through end of stroke old school!
If a Whitewood was really that difficult you wouldn't see Frozen, Nightmare before Xmas or any of these other homebrews.

The most expensive part of a whitewood, for me, is:
1) x2+ Flipper assemblies
2) x2+ Jet assemblies
3) x1 Trough assembly
4) Driving hardware (P-roc in my case right now)
5) Hard to find parts like drop targets, kickers, poppers, troughs, ect... that fit in where I want to put them.

-A computer is cheap shit, just get a $40 Pentium 4 windows xp off of craigslist, and BOOM! You have a game brain. ALL my games use XP pro or home, it doesn't matter both are perfectly stable for running a simple pinball machine. Is this the best choice for a final product? naw... but for prototyping and development why the hell not? Set your code up right and it doesn't matter what OS or driver you're using. [Game Logic] <-> [Hardware]
-Posts are easy, $0.4 or something each when ordered in bulk? meh
-Targets can add up ($6 to $12 each depending or style) but still, meh.
-Sheet guides can be hand cut from a sheet of $20 metal from home depot or lowes
-Wood $20 or so from home depot or lowes

I built the Frozen whitewood in under $600 worth or raw parts/materials... 2 flippers, 1 jet, 10 targets, scrap metal for guides, 20ft of solid core grounding wire for the wire ramp, some switches, an old trough from Bally blackjack, $100 tv from best buy, old p4 3.2 computer I've had since 2003, ~$100 of various frozen toys (took some time to find the right ones), P-Roc I already had from Tail of the Dragon, etc. Programming and wireing time is another story.

Tail of the Dragon, similar story. less then $800 worth of raw parts (not counting computer or proc).

Fairyland Tales never really got too far, basic flipping using raw power like what Ben described, but no real code.

Haunted Cruise is a different beast all together. Many $Ks worth of parts, revisions, etc. But still under $7k total in raw parts used over it's lifetime.

I'm not saying all my games are OMGWTF Innovative! in design or toys, they don't really need to be as long as it's fun to shoot and the rules/gameplay is fun. Obviously JPop feels like he's doing something new, though I don't think any of us have seen it yet from the videos and images shown. Which again goes back to the "what's taking so long" question all you owners have. It's a very good question!

Quoted from benheck:

The scale and manufacturing is the hard part.



1 week later
#8850 4 years ago

Would it be possible to print up the 3d modeled mold, clean it/smooth it, make a plaster negative, then a final aluminum positive kinda like classical bronze statues were made?

#8869 4 years ago

I will be willing to bet that ramp is probably shootable. Based on it's position and curvature, with strong flippers you should *just* be able to make it. Forget about less-then-ideal unshopped flippers though.

If you look closely, it's still going up the ramp (rising) on the right side of it's initial path, but that rise is going back towards the front of the playfield. That rise won't really be rising much, it will begin to flatten out but still technically be "rising" (taking the 6.5 slope into account) so it's not *that* steep if at all there. There is a little bit of a rise again on the upper left part of the loop around but the ball could keep momentum via the circular forces swooping around the downward motion in the front of the ramp's loop.


#8983 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Wouldn't it be amazing if someone put a CCC amount of work into a TOM code re-write, and it was an approved release with a FAST WPC 2.0 brain swap?

As long as it is PAPA approved and becomes ToM's competition standard, Yes! Otherwise, no.

#10110 4 years ago

I just sent them an email just now about programming it.

:: shrug :: figured it's worth a shot.

#10190 4 years ago

Better idea (for buyers at least):

-An LE for the current 16 or so MG buyers and only them
-199 $12k premiums offered first for raza/aiw owners, then the remaining to the public
-Unlimited standard MGs at $9k

As others said, not knowing the BOM makes these numbers pie in the sky, but imo these numbers and buy in ideas may be more palettable to current owners and future buyers.

There's that old concept of $10 to sell 1 book or $5 sell 3 books.

#10196 4 years ago

The LE can be exclusive just by changing, say, the playfields background color from purple to yellow or something simple like that. Premiums vs standards could be something like removing a magnet or those spinning outline things. It doesn't need to be much of a change at all for the game to be different and thus more rare. It's all in the eye of the beholder... Look at stern's LEs vs Prems, really just some art change, no?

#10209 4 years ago
Quoted from TOK:

Worst way to design a Standard/Pro is to start with the game you really want to build and strip features. Thats how you wind up with a giant ugly Angus Young face taking up a quarter of your playfield.
These games already seem overpriced, even the Standard is going to have to above and beyond anything ever created. Ain't believin' it!

Never said it was a good way to do things, I said it's a simple solution to the problem. The more complex of a change you make to differentiate things the longer and more expensive the timelines become. Do you reaaaaaaly want to wait x more months and be charged y more $ for a significant playfields redesigns and custom-bits production delays? Or would you rather have the games sooner then later in a more streamlined way?

#10214 4 years ago
Quoted from TOK:

I'd rather have one fully featured game at a fixed price than all the Premium/LE/Pro nonsense. That doesn't have anything to do with the JPop debacle though.

Fair enough

#10337 4 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

...not a hobbyist....

I hope that comment wasn't aimed at me...

#11101 4 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Isn't the entire point of this shitshow to produce some brand new Jpop machines?
Not sure if I understand the whole "get Jpop as far away from this project as possible!!!!" concept.
Seems like if anybody is going to try to see this thing through Jpop's involvement is going to be a necessary evil.

Based on what's been presented in this thread, the machines are already designed to varying degrees now. Unless those designs are thrown out, the games *will be new Jpop machines*.

The consensus that people are making in this thread is that if he is kept on then there will be potential further delays since he will continue to "chase perfection" rather then produce a product. In addition he has "poisoned" his ability to work with needed 3rd parties. If he's out of the picture then those doors could open again.

#11108 4 years ago

Apple, people have questioned the ramp's ability to be shot. When you were working with that prototype did you notice any issues with the ramp's height vs flipper power?

#12198 4 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Finally, some game play video that i shot some time before i got the ramps, install them and made updates for their inclusion. Its quite a short vid and i don't really shoot much, but please appreciate that this was just another dev video for testing out certain features.

I realize this is still very much WIP... but was that score going to be in your face for most of the game (barring a couple animations here and there)? ... that'd be a complete waist of a screen if it was...

For 16k, I'd expect video detal similar in quality to the background of Carl's stage (Ignore the fighting, just watch the background animations)

#12208 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Everything we've seen so far is 90s CD-ROM kinds of animations. Tricks applied over still frames. I wouldn't expect much more than that.

I know, and it's kind of unacceptable in this day in age.

#12216 4 years ago

That quality of graphics doesn't take millions or years anymore. Just say'n. Frankly, the way lcd/led video screens are used in all pins these days disgusts me.

#12230 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballfantexas:

That is true but it also costs a lot more to get it done right.

Not a whole lot more frankly. And it's worth every penny. Quality products are worth more long term then quick products short term.

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