Its only Thursday. How do we know Jpop doesn't have something hidden in a panel van outside that he will be showing on Saturday?
Its only Thursday. How do we know Jpop doesn't have something hidden in a panel van outside that he will be showing on Saturday?
Software is the long pole in this tent. Unless there is a room full of programmers in India or something that we don't know about, I can't see this ending well. If this was just one game I would give it a chance, but with multiple games in the mix I can't see this ever getting past the playable proto stage without a huge influx of money. Hopefully something can eventually be shipped and people can band together to write software over the next several years.
Quoted from frolic:
Based on everything that has been gleaned from the adobe videos, shot 4 weeks ago, and any other information (or lack of).... I think we're getting a pretty clear picture of the state of the games. I don't think there is a lot we don't know that exists (ie: no finished playable prototype with completed software/ramps/etc).
At this point this whole situation is the very definition of insanity. I really don't think he could have completed one game including the rules, software, sounds, music and animation. The fact that he is working on three games is...insane. Sure he can design the layout, hardware and the art package, but that is only part of the game. I remember the prototypes of WOZ where the lights flashed and you could beat the ball around but there were essentially no rules. If even one of these JPOP games actually makes it to the paying customers as a beat the ball around prototype like that I will be surprised at this point. Truly glad I don't have money in on this and never did. Anyone who has money down and is not a billionaire should seriously take a step back and think about this logically.
Quoted from RobT:
Have you even bothered to read the recent posts by owners in this thread?
Yes, I have read them all. I did not mean to say they are idiots and apologize if that is how I came off. What I did mean though is that anyone with money still in this might be caught up in wishful thinking and rationalization at this point. It is rare that I agree with Iceman, but I think he is on the ball here.
I am also not trying to say that I am smarter than those who ever had money in this. If this had been Steve Ritchie or Dennis Nordman I might have gotten in. I simply don't like any of Jpop's previous games well enough to throw my money in. So my decision was mostly a matter of personal taste way back in the beginning (along with sticker shock).
Quoted from Baiter:
This sums up the situation perfectly. Jpop has spent all these years designing multiple products and dreaming of creating a company that can produce all of these products, without focus on delivering a single one of them, much less the infrastructure needed to deliver many of them.
Quoted from Frax:
Easy to be "Sold out" when you refuse to issue refunds, eh?
This "no refunds after a certain date" thing makes no sense. That date should have slid out with the production schedule. "No refunds after games enter production" or "No refunds two weeks after the first working prototype is shown". I guess hind sight is 20/20, I know.
Quoted from Rarehero:
I think unproven & unlicensed can work if all these elements come together:
1- Excellent art package (comparable to the favorite B/W games)
2- Excellent audio package (catchy music & experienced voice-over actors)
3- A really cool toy or feature that's compelling, unique, and looks fun to interact with
4- "Reasonable" price
IMO, AMH is missing 1 & 2, and WOOLY is missing 2,3 & 4. If a boutique can nail 1-4, I think they could have excellent sales of an original title.
AMH has really nice dots from what I have seen while playing and watching other play.
Quoted from RobT:
I told someone who is in on RAZA and got starry eyed after the MG blog was opened and got a bit of a confidence boost with Iceman, Mr.68, and FAST getting more involved with JPop, and therefore was going to "stay in", that in my opinion, best case scenario would be 3 more years before RAZA would be shipped.
I still think that's the best case scenario.
You are more optimistic than I am. Maybe I am just jaded by the whole Predator situation which just unfolded, but I do think we all *want to believe* in these start-up companies to a fault. To me the parade of employees and suppliers who seemingly all have not been paid, including Chris from Cointaker who is a "friend" of John's, is a hurdle that could be impossible to clear without immediate action. This project is dead without new/outside help, management, software coders and manufacturing talent. What competent and capable person(s) would be willing to set foot on this runaway train at this point? Anyone who could rescue this situation already has a good day job. My best case scenario is that there is money left for refunds when the plug finally gets pulled or the project is taken over by Stern.
Quoted from frolic:
I was also pleased to see that Heighway's chief software guy won the IFPA state championships for Florida - a real pinball player. THAT is the experience we need for programmers,
Brian is a damn good guy too. Heighway also lent him a prototype to work with in his home. This is something I'm sure JPop would not do even if he *had* a prototype.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
Last 1000 posts are similar to first 5000. Four years elapsed, $1M +/- paid in, 3+ pins under design, no flipping whitewoods, little communication from JPOP except broken promises, heavy criticism within this forum, shattered dreams & the pre-order model is dead.
You forgot the part about the large number of suppliers he has worked with not being paid for products delivered, and not to mention disgruntled/disillusioned former employees seem to be the only employees he has.
The fact that "PR" was perceived to be even the slightest problem in the big picture is disturbing enough. Hitching one's horse in any way, shape or form to Kaneduh just shows a complete lack of any sense of reality.
Here is my PR plan: build a flipping prototype and concentrate 100% on MG until it is done and shipped - even if it ships with no software whatsoever. Someone will program on the consumer end.
If this does eventually end in bankruptcy I have a bad feeling that JPop would not be the type to let his IP go with the remnants of the company once he ceases to control the project. In other words he would dump his hard disks Hillary Clinton style and force the new owner to reverse engineer all the mechanical drawings and artwork based on what little has been released in the blogs.
Time for some humor. Going back to the Idiocracy post a few pages back, maybe we can commission a movie about this whole situation? Every time I read about someone going to talk to JPop or trying to help him only to fail, I think about the storyline Apocalypse now. Brilliant young officer gets a command and is suddenly out of control and operating completely outside of reality. Ice would be Martin Sheen and Jpop would be Col Kurtz. The crazies could be the fanboys on Facebook. Maybe Coppola will come out of his winery to make it?
Pinside as much as anything enabled him to show off his shiny new business, created a fever and collect a ton of money. Pinside stuck with him and defended him for way longer than it should have - until just recently in fact. Pinside did not collectively change their mind until long after even JPop himself had to have known the project was in serious trouble. Now he is blaming Pinside for his downfall? Sorry, but Pinside reacted to the downfall, not the other way around. What balls on this guy.
Quoted from Concretehardt:
I just got an email from JPOP it sounds like he has a couple pinsiders there and they are "playing MG"... He said they are shooting video, hopefully it gets posted to to the blogs & Facebook soon.
Showing us something he said he had three years ago changes the current situation how?
Never missed any Jpop game after it left. WCS was neat for a little while and so was CV but both got old fast. TOM was the shortest lived game ever in my house. It was up for sale almost as soon as I got it and that never happens with me. I keep games for years, not weeks. TOTAN like the others is a beautiful game, I don't even like the game play on that one enough to give it a chance.
This all sounds reasonable were John not still firmly in control. The problem with any solution is getting the leopard to change his spots. This project has little or no chance until John loses control via the bankruptcy court. The upside is that this may not be far off.
Has there ever been an aluminum ramp before? Seems like it would wear and deposit dirt all over the playfield? That is why stainless steel is used, because it is so hard.
The higher slope on normal DMD glass compared to EMs causes more reflections of lighting, etc to be seen. I wonder how this even higher slope will affect things. A lot of people have lighting set at just the right position to be out of sight in reflections and the higher slope will bring the lights into view.
Quoted from Aurich:
Right, that's what I'm shaking my head over, it's ridiculous. I could make a call now and go pick up my glass today. Done it before, it's easy. Tempered, custom size, no problem.
The places around here have to send out to have it done. Still it only takes 2-3 days.
Quoted from rai:
Absolutely amazing John is at this early stage.
It's surprising such a simple thing... I would have thought he had glass on them at Expo at least. Sheesh. This is more proof the water gets to full boil before the frogs realize.
I sure hope this trip out West is a Lebowski moment. Not holding my breath though.
Well hopefully this will speed the closure of this debacle. I can't help but feel bad for John's wife getting caught up in all this.
I think most of us at one time or another has had an awesome looking girlfriend who was out of our league and of course it did not last, she met another guy, yada, yada... Even though she totally dirted you and you told your friends how much better off you are now without her, all it would take was one phone call or for her to be nice to you when you run into her out at a party and you are suddenly back under her spell. All of this to find out that once again it was a mirage and your heart is broken once again.
Seems like this is a few months too late. How does a 3rd party take over a company that has many valid law suits against it and is basically circling the drain about to go to bankruptcy court? All good intentions aside; is this even possible at this point? Won't a judge immediately freeze any sort of deal and let bankruptcy and class actions run their course?
With all the people joining the lawsuit and filing complaints, the shady Jpop accounting (or lack there of) will be exposed sooner than later and nullify any potential deal in favor of bankruptcy court. I respect what Pintasia is trying to do but I really think/hope that a judge somewhere saves them from making a huge mistake by diving into this mess hand in hand with Jpop. Much better to buy the remains at auction and start the project with the accounting fully exposed, any remaining funds returned to creditors, and most importantly: Jpop completely out of the picture.
Where do I sign up for a game designed by Dennis Nordman with Zombie Yeti artwork based on the new SPIKE hardware and built by Stern? Something tells me that Zombie Yeti could come up with an original theme that would be off the hook if given a chance to work with someone that is not bat shit crazy.
LOL. Have to be fast in this thread!
Edit: Just read through that and HOLY SHIT! I heard rumors that this was not going well, but this is like an HBO series or something.
I think a lot of people would like to see Jpop enter into reality TV rather than see a movie about him...
I'm not sure why people get so mad about the people questioning Pintasia? It's not hard to understand the skepticism. Here are the facts:
- We've barely known Pintasia 48 hours
- They ask people to sign a no-sue contract
- They were for some reason hand selected BY JPOP HIMSELF
Edit: I should add that while I am skeptical, I would love to see Pintasia or anyone else actually pull a rabbit out of the hat and rescue this situation in a way that at least comes close to making everyone whole.
From day one I never doubted this would be a great looking game. It's the game play I have little confidence in. Nothing about the layout intrigues me. Seeing it lit up it just looks like a jumbled mess with awesome artwork. I'm sure there are dozens of home brew designs in PinMAME that are more polished and deserve to be made more.
I'm waiting for someone at the show to say the layout plays like butter and has some real gratifying shots...not holding my breath, but I would love to be wrong.
At least this disaster is contained to one thread. Killing this thread will create tons of new threads competing for attention, half of which will get out of control and killed by moderators. Keeping it as one big, contained tire fire is the best idea.
Quoted from McCune:
Rgp post , funny reading some of the responses early on.
That is funny! Even Jersey Jack chimed in to take a cheap shot at Gary Stern. Not surprised...
My understanding on the prototype sales was that Jpop sold the initial 13 so fast that he had a bunch of people flashing money to get in on one. At the time there were four prototypes planned to be built, but not sold. The plan was hatched to sell one or more of those prototypes after the main production run was completed and Jpop was able to refurbish the prototypes and bring them up to the production specs.
Like I said, this is my understanding, but I severely doubt that anyone who purchased a prototype was expecting to be buying the incomplete mess that was at the show last week.
Quoted from NYP:
Why is it OK for Ben to say whatever he wants about JPOP but Jack gets criticized when he says something? And he said it on the JJP forum not pinside. I'm not saying whether I agree with what he said, just pointing it out. Double standard or just the usual Pinside drama?
Seriously? The problem with Jacks post is he throws pinside, which is JJP'S OWN CUSTOMER BASE, under the bus as a bunch of worthless losers. This is truly delusional conduct for someone in his position. Pinside is not the problem.
Who says those pictures aren't a year old and just now being thrown online as evidence of continued progress for the courts?
At this point things have gotten so crazy I have to wonder if this in not a case where the guy actually is bonkers and not in touch with reality. Rather than the conspiracy theories of him doing this or that to impress the courts or bring in new money, do you think it might be the simplest reason of all? His wife is on the board of directors, has anyone talked to her about this? Bill maybe?
Once the court battle gets heated up, and the resultant auctions, evictions, etc begin; this thread could hit 30,000.
Quoted from RobT:
Screw one of your customers for quoting SOMETHING YOU SAID.
In a recent JJP thread someone gave Jack the advice to simply "STFU" and build pinball machines. One should never underestimate the power of posting on the Internet to do harm to oneself.
On the bright side; I guess money must not be as tight as rumored if JJP can afford to offend the customer base and show loyal paying customers the door
Quoted from TaTa:
JJP is doing something that Pat himself said he never had before, total creative freedom.
Seriously? You're telling me he had any restrictions when he made Safecracker? The game was an original theme, complete new form factor (size), unlimited budget, etc, etc and it sucks. The only selling point is it is a unique collector's item and it is "different". Roadshow was original theme, wide body, and seemingly unlimited budget and it sucks big-time too. I love Lawlor's early work, but I am not holding my breath for JJP #3 based on the "what have you done for me lately" theory. Pat has not put out a great game since TZ - 22 years and counting.
Funhouse: now that was a great game.
Edit: sorry done with OT posting in this thread.
Sad that Kevin shows up at an auction and no one calls him out. Now Jpoop does a two hour soft interview? I'd rather have knitting needles rammed into both ears than listen to this.
Based on what I have heard about Jpoop's accounting system, I'd imagine he would have a hard time even coming up with a list of "rightful" MG owners after all this time. Those bar napkins have probably all run through the wash in the pocket of his pants by now.
Quoted from Cornelius:
I'm a little surprised myself, frankly. But again, I tried to give the people a scoop, and I think I did. Really wish I could have said or shown more, but ah well.
This is true, this is very true. The way I imagined the scenario was:
-MGs get made for the MG buyers.
-Houdini goes on sale.
-AIW / the zombie game owners get credit towards Houdini or the next pin
-JPOP gets out of the shithole he dug for himself, makes more games
-Joe Balcer keeps JPOP in line
That doesn't explain how Zombie Yeti gets paid. Or Wolfmarsh. I don't like that, but I was hoping that the above things would happen and then behind the scenes, other people would get their due. Am I naive? I probably am. But I like I said, I love a good Cinderella story. I think a person with your avatar could appreciate that.
Wow! Just wow. A perfectly run pinball company would be lucky to be profitable within a few game titles. The idea that one could start up and be so profitable that they could literally give away machines to people is ridiculous. What is it about Jpop that makes people completely lose their minds???
Quoted from Cornelius:
I still don't know what this means at all
Don't sweat it, you did nothing wrong and even said you were a little star struck. A lot of people with more experience than you have been caught up in the enthusiasm by big words, cool artwork and a fancy box of flashing lights. For him to use the word "con" was uncalled for.
Quoted from Tsskinne:
The fact that the game Space Mission X existed probably
This guy is truly insane. He designs games to the point he can slap someone's cool artwork on the cabinet and backbox and them moves on to the next mock-up without even coming close to finishing a single game.
I never cease to be amazed...
Quoted from c508:
Ok, here is the THIRD AMENDED COMPLAINT (most recent version of the original complaint in the JPOP suit, dated Sept. 22, 2015).
It is 44 pages, but a lot of it is repetitive since it lists the same allegations over and over (on behalf of different plaintiffs).
So, first we get the details of Plaintiff Gilbody's basis for his suit against JPOP. Then pages 3-4 are largely the same, but for a different plaintiff (Zilch) and amount of $$$ ($6,895).
Then it goes on and on in a similar vein listing the other 20 plaintiffs' claims (for varying amounts of $$$).
I deleted pages 5-39 due to their repetitive nature. Pages 40-41 contain additional info from COUNT LXVII. Page 42 is the "certificate of service" and pages 43-44 are "Exhibit 1."
Exhibits 2-19 (referenced in support of various plaintiffs' suits) are likely correspondence between plaintiffs and JPOP, bills, receipts, sale contracts, screen grabs of Zidware's website and blog, etc. advertising MG, RAZA, AIW and assuring plaintiffs that all is well and that the games are on the way.
I did not get those exhibits, because I did not want to pay for them.
If anyone wants the full 44 page THIRD AMENDED COMPLAINT, please PM me with your email address and I will send it along.
Wow. Need to study up on my roman numerals. That is a lot of counts.
I had completely stopped following the Predator mess, until it was mentioned above. After listening to the two audio files of the court hearing I could not help but think of the similarity to the Jpop matter the whole way through. I took no pleasure in Kevin's pain, but I think standing in front of a judge who was threatening to haul him directly to jail helped to put things in perspective. *These are serious criminal cases with dozens of victims.* It would be therapeutic for all involved in this case to hear Jpop have his day in court and be confronted with the specter of going directly to jail if he doesn't start fessing up to the truth. I fear that anything short of that will not jar him out of his denial. Hopefully his day in court comes sooner than later.
Quoted from Pinballs:
If the legal case continues then presumably these assets might eventually be e.g. rolled into an asset auction later (thus, even if you receive a machine you might have to return it later).
Not many statements in this entire thread make more sense than this one. This whole thing is surreal.
Seems like the playfields have some empty holes. Also, the inserts look terrible being clear like that. Are those just dirty spots or are the inserts ghosting??
Beautiful artwork...but that was never in doubt.
Quoted from mbaumle:
That game is absolutely stunning.
Say what you want about the clear inserts, but I think they're neat looking.
No doubt the artwork is great. It is the build and design I worry about when I see this insert. There is definitely something wrong with the clear or maybe bubbles in mylar? Also, being able to clearly see every detail of that LED flasher through the insert without it even being lit is not good. It would look a lot better faceted or clouded.
I picture Jpop as a little boy serving his time in detention building MGs. His lawyer probably told him that he would go to jail if he didn't use what little was left of the money from games 2 and 3 to at least produce game 1. So Jpop produces 19 copies of a cobbled together semblance of what was supposed to be a $16,000 pinball machine and ships them. Now he can claim to be broke and show intent to deliver on his business promises. Failed business sounds much better than fraud when the fear of PMITAP is hanging over head.
Quoted from hank527:
I read all of this and am.invested in RAZA. I can say I do hold AP accountable for associating with JPoop and will not be buying any of the games they sell unless they do something for us RAZA owners.
I agree in principle and will never associate with AP in any way. They basically took what little cash was remaining from AIW and RAZA and colluded with Jpop to help him avoid jail by building parts to be cobbled together into 19 piles of pretty junk. It is not just that Jpop was tainted at the time they struck up with him - it's the fact that the money itself was tainted. It is insane that the courts didn't get involved and freeze the assets before it came to all of this. Too late now. Jpop will walk free and the money that might have been recovered is in AP pockets.
Quoted from Fulltilt:
Why would you want to piss on them for that??
AP already accepted your Raza money from John to build parts for the pseudo Magic Girls. If there is any money left it is certainly not enough to build more than a handful of incomplete Raza to keep Jpop from going to prison. Hard to believe the courts haven't stepped in and frozen these assets long ago.
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