(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..

By iceman44

5 years ago

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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (2 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (2 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (2 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (2 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (2 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (2 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#126 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There is no such thing as a "sub NDA", as a scumbag lawyer, I'd know that..

Looking forward to the Breaking Bad prequel "Better call Saul"

Jokes aside, if there is a Jpop thread may be this should be a locked thread updated by a moderator. I am interested in these games, but not enough to scan pages and pages of dispute - legal, illegal, legit or not !-

#142 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Yep, Nemo been in the works for a long time now, looks great!

Should be home soooooooon - within weeks !
I have been waiting for mine for more than two years now...

4 months later
#335 5 years ago
Quoted from djhannu:

image.jpg 241 KB

I must confess that part is really, really beautiful. And I have no horse in that race.

#631 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I put money down on TBL today.

We need you for WOOLY too! Don't stop here!

Jokes aside, I have been waiting for Nemo for 30 months now. I know how it feels. Got a firm delivery date by mail this week end: before November 30.

3 weeks later
#1145 5 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

There is a thread that Nemo has shipped or has a shipping date within a month

Yep! That's mine.
Within 2 weeks now...

I have been waiting for Nemo for 30+ months so there is hope...

#1188 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Predator is also a couple years late iirc

May be we should create a support group (thread) uniting all that are waiting for games beyond expected announced release...

Basically everyone buying NIB pins from any company, besides Stern and Spooky. Right ?

2 weeks later
#1479 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

an unnamed pinsider who went to visit him planted a tracking device in his hair (never find it in there) just in case he thinks about running!

Seen him in Europe. I am afraid he found a way...

#1687 5 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

In other words, you 'buyers' all have become artists' patrons ...

This is not a bad comparison and I do not feel insulted (I am not a JPOP patron but I got other artists to "sponsor" so I see the point)

Quoted from SadSack:

... and have simply paid for the pleasure of the artists' company.

...except that Patrons expect a little bit more than that. Painters' patrons are given, in addition to the company, some paintings from time to time...

#2201 5 years ago

The "Ignore" button is your friend.

#2619 5 years ago

How about a Xmas truce? No more negativity (even if deserved) until Dec 26?
Guess all pre-orders freaks like me (although not on Jpop) have other games to play by then.

In the meantime...

2 weeks later
#2992 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The "timelines", whatever they were, are out of fantasy land, actually Alice in Wonderland like.

I feel for all of you.
I am a bit mad at JPOP for a different reason: the very bad experience you all had with Zidware pinball is probably one of the reasons why the Wrath of Olympus (WOOLY) project did not attract enough pre-orders (I sincerely hope Scott will find a way to make this dream come true).
Too much money "invested" into preorders - and JPOP is not the only culprit - with no game in sight or long delays (JJP).

#3148 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

What happened to the old software development team?

JPOP has contacted (at least) someone about it.
I can't confirm if he accepted / declined - he would not comment because of that famous NDA!

... but I hope to meet the guy F2F in 3-4 weeks. We will see what's left of the "lips closed oath" after a few beers and local wines ... Assuming I remember anything of that conversation the next morning

#3355 5 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

I have cash in hand to pay for a AIW as I sold my POTC and got my refund for The Hobbit so I have cash burning a hole in my pocket

You got to be kidding, right?

Quoted from zr11990:

AIW is a dream theme.

... ouch. You are serious.

Unsure if/when JPOP AIW will be released, but Riot Pinball also has this theme in mind
Check this: http://riotpinball.com/node/3

If only Scott could produce WOOLY first...

#3476 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

This is the biggest problem with his model as well as the Nemo pin to be fair, that was sold out before it was produced.

Regarding Nemo: somewhat inaccurate, let me explain:

The initial limit was fixed at 30. Antonio kept "preorders" for Nemo (with no money required!) open for a year. Never reached 30. Around 20 I think.

At one time he had to order parts and asked people who were in for a deposit. 14 stayed in. So he placed orders to manufacture that number (hopefully with some spare parts if necessary).

Now the machine can be consired as "sold out" because he would not make more.
Once the 14 are produced, if people like the game, he would still be allowed to make 16 other games and keep his word. I doubt he wants to make them but if the feedback is good, try petition him to make these extra games... but let him finish the 14 first!

Note that there is still a waiting list according to http://www.quetzalpinball.com/menu/order
I know that at least a few of the 14 have not paid in full - so there is still a possibility that a few would drop out.

By the way, this limit of a few dozen is probably the upper figure you can assemble without a factory. So announcing a low run makes sense. He is building these pins in his home. Mine is expected hopefully soon !

Antonio next game will involve partnership with a game manufacturer. A higher run becomes realistic.
In any case, as you can guess with Nemo priced at €4,400 (without sales tax) Antonio is not making a living out of it. He told me he lost $$, without including any salary for himself and the workers (his wife!). He (they) keeps his regular job and builds games when he finds the time.

The ultimate boutique pin!

For better or worse, like a marriage, I knew what I signed for 32 months ago, and I am still in!

Post edited by jlm33: grammar/clarity

#3596 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

There are many shallow minded people in this world that rejoice in the misery of others. It's not difficult to spot many of them here.

Had to give you a thumb up for this... sadly.

Would have preferred to disagree

1 week later
#3832 4 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

After reading most of this thread, I'm not sure who this is addressed to? There are still people that believe it will happen, but calling them "kool aid drinkers" is a bit of a stretch.

LOL. Guess most of the "kool aid drinkers" needed that break!

#3947 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Every pre-order has been a disaster and a headache. Jpop, Rick, Kevin, DP, whoever.

How was Wooly pre-order a disaster or headache? Did not work out, everyone got his deposit back within a few days... Scott handled things as promised.
Failure maybe (but the story may not be over); Disaster or headache : no.

MMr is probably a headache but does not seem a disaster...

#3973 4 years ago

It looks beautiful!

Post edited by jlm33: not talking about the Knocker of course

1 week later
#4014 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Hard to show a flipping game when you don't have that

Does "fully built" mean "flipping"?
To the very least one can expect a fully populated PF within a nice cabinet?

1 week later
#4216 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

What's a bigger cluster RAZA or Predator?

Not even close. Pay attention.
- What RAZA owners are asking is a video of a working game... "Predator mission complete"-style.
- You also got your refund from Skit-B. I wonder when the last JPOP patron asking for a refund got it.

#4372 4 years ago
Quoted from Expletive:

I believe that there are many more people who don't think the pins will ever be built than there are people who think that they will be built.

What people like me think is irrelevant - what matters is what Zidware clients think.

You have more information than we do and the educated advice you get here are based on gossip, speculation and hearsay... here is an example:

Quoted from YKpinballer:

And one more thing. He had to fire his assistant and hasn't paid himself for months? The company is broke, plain and simple.

1 week later
#4797 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

We call it getting JPOP'ed.

I sincerely hope Antonio (you know the guy from Quetzal Pinball or, more accurately, the guy who IS Quetzal pinball) was not JPop'ed because he does not deserve that.

#4799 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

This is a story I've heard at least ten times now
Get the name of the guy and call him - ask about the production schedule, see how enthusiastically the guy responds.

By the way, would you mind if I repost this post on our French forum ?
It seems we have a new local wave of JPop worshipers that may benefit from hearing some dissent voice.

#4937 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm calling him tonight

I would be interested to know about the partnership with Antonio (Quetzal) if Aaron/FAST takes over.

#4992 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Thanks for your contribution.

Quoted from Frax:

And yours is just as valuable.

Nice to be among gentlemen

#5012 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Its really just a few folks who jump in screaming fore everyone demand your money back etc etc.
Just fanning flames for the joy of misery.

I completely agree and know exactly how you feel as I am in the Predator boat... We have a few bystanders who feed on negativity. Guess everyone has a right to express his opinion, but when non-owners dominate the thread, it becomes annoying.

(trying not to become a nuisance on this one)

#5039 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Neither are professionals, thats what it boils down to. One is an eccentric kook and the other one is a naive guy in a basement

At least Kevin paid his bills (until proved otherwise)
At least JPop is not supposed to deal with licence issues

#5131 4 years ago
Quoted from RomstarArkanoid:

I find this interesting, since John tried to have some of the boards he was using duplicated to cut the people out who made them.

The ones from Quetzal, Fast or PROC?

#5316 4 years ago

Ice, your efforts in this matter are appreciated, even from those with no horse in the race. Looking backwards, someone like you in the predator journey would have been far more useful to me than Mr X. So I would beg you to stay.

I understand your perpective (you do not want to be tainted with JPop if it fails).
What I suggest is not to remain alone. JPop buyers should designate a few other "official" delegates to keep the project going forward.

#5350 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Suck it frolic, I typed faster!

Maybe, but he writes in a more poetic way:

Quoted from frolic:

Here's another lovely nugget ...

#5472 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I think Heighway will get it.

Why did you thumb down what I wrote in the Predator(gate) thread a few days ago, just before the Pinball news reveal, then?
I had at least that right. Would have preferred to be wrong with the manufacturer but right with the license though...

Quoted from jlm33:

My bet on the mystery manufacturer is on Heighway. Seems odd, but let me explain why:
$4750 does not seem much, but with a near 1 exchange rate, this translates into 4700 euros, VAT excluded... 5700 euros with sales tax. Not that distant from the 6300 euros price tag for Full Throttle, which is a widebody with LCD, etc...
Heighway will start shipping FT very soon so they will gain credibility.
The fact that no artwork is released yet for Aliens tells they have to solve some licensing issues as well. They may feel confident that the Predator licensing issues can be addressed.
Heighway has already demonstrated they can produce and ships 250 copies of an entirely different game (Bacardi). Predator is on the same scale.
My feeling is that if Heighway think their production line may be underused between games #1 and #2 or #2 and #3, they will look for creative ways to keep their workforce occupied.
... and that would save some shipping cost for me

#5525 4 years ago
Quoted from Linolium:

I know I'm basically a nobody in the pinball world

... who has made the great Haunted cruise project

#5565 4 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

please stop immediately as great harm is being done. Jpop

This is a really scary comment. (seen from an outsider)

#5680 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

Maybe Steve also look into my refund request.

Not getting refunds sends a strong alarm signal. Says a Predator'ed customer.
At least I have CC (Amex) protection.

#5752 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

The software can be finished by someone without changing the current hardware (QPC) or the current software platform (PyProcGame).

Can Antonio Ortuno - the QPC System designer, if I am correct - work on the software as well? (after finishing Nemo's code, of course !)

#5769 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

(my applause is for the Heighway stuff, not your last sentence

I have the exact same feeling. Regarding the last sentence...

Quoted from frolic:

Having just written the above, I don't see how this can possibly end well for us

... Game is not over yet. It may well be a difficult game, but you are not yet at Post/Predator stage. There is more money involved (which here can be a good thing) and there are no license issues.

I sincerely, deeply, strongly wish it does not end like Predator.

#5984 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Guess so, it's his first and only post on Pinside.

But his account was created over a year ago!?
If it's a duplicate account, it took him time to make use of it!

#6142 4 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

The difference is that both "The Pin" and "Whoa Nellie" were Stern projects from the inception.

Absolutely not for Whoa Nellie...
This project started years (and light years) before Stern was involved.

1 week later
#6768 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

video was killing the pinball star.

I see your reference here

Quoted from Mr68:

That would be an EM, right?

Yep. Fireball!!

#6817 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Don't leave us hanging; post a pic of your art sample.

#6826 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

Walks on water, can shoot lasers from my eyes, encyclopedic memory, invented the internet, trillionaire, incapable of feeling pain, unlimited cell phone minutes, fun at parties...

Uh? Someone's calling me?

1 week later
#7554 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Being self (or privately) financed always gave me confidence in Heighway. Meant there was a business plan somewhere that made sense to people.

Any way, the fact that Heighway pinball will host the next UK pinball party at their place next August is a smart move and very strong positive signal - everyone visiting will be able to check the reality of their factory.

#7605 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Ok your right "what's the point" I won't post info in this thread anymore as it has clearly upset you! I will keep any new info on the private owners group.... After all its not like this is the "JPOP update thread"

Please no, keep posting here. Otherwise we will only get negative updates here.
Most pinsiders (which are not JPOP owners) sincerely wish this project to succeed.

#7710 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

If you're in on any of these games you're pretty much an "elite" collector, and can probably pick up any machine you feel like.

Respectfully disagree... perhaps not for a $17k MG (those who were in may pick up any machine), but unsure about those who bet $8-10k on RAZA.

That's money that could have been spent on Heighway, Spooky, P3, etc...

In my case the $$$ lost on predator are $ I would have spent on another pin.

#7747 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

It is an anti-Semitic reference.

Does Nazi equal anti-semitic only? What about Gipsies, Mentally-impaired, Gays? (and probably forgetting a few others: Commies, etc... Plenty of reasons to be considered sub-human).

(and back to the initial post, no way Ice was suggesting any of the above - that was an inadequate choice of words, I would give it a rest now)

#7801 4 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Do it! Get someone to video it and I'll send you your dozen beers back

Quoted from iceman44:

You are on RD!!! Maybe I can get somebody to video me doing an interview with him

I second that. But as a classy French I am not allowed to send beer...

#7808 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Btw, just from everything you read AND an already excellent track record with more great stuff to come, who would you rather buy a pinball machine from now, John or Ben and Charlie?

Given my known record of sticking with Kevin K until the very end, are you sure you want to rely on my recommendation?

There are three current projects I am following with great interest: P3 / Heighway / Pinball circus.

#8237 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I guess Nemo has not shipped either (yet).

Nope but that should be very, very, soon...
The last non standard piece of equipment that had to be custom made was finally delivered to Antonio a few days ago.

Quoted from rai:

that was another pin with limit of 30. I don't recall exactly how much it cost, but let's say $8000 x 30 = $240K
How was Nemo able to have a flipping game 3 years ago, and John still can not show one with 5x as much cash collected?

Slight correction:
- Nemo's planned run was 30, but the actual number of sold units is 14. I hope for him he will be able to sell the remaining 16 once the first batch is delivered.
- price was 4300 - 4425 euros (without sales tax; exact figure depends on coin door specification) around $5,000. Barely sustainable as the BOM was much higher than planned initially and Antonio had to redo / redesign / reorder a number of items - latest of them the ball trough because of non standard dimensions. Each single item that is not standard adds to cost and creates delays.
- Only a minority of the 14 buyers have paid in full. I am one of them...

So Antonio collected far, far less than $240k. JPOP did not get 5x as much cash but 25x or more. But Antonio kept his regular job - this is of course mandatory as given the figures above there was no "meat left on the bone" to get a salary. He might be making these games at a loss even then.

And yet Antonio had a flipping game as early as September 2012. I played it in Madrid. Actually, like Scott Gullick with Wooly he had a flipping game before collecting any money.

#8262 4 years ago

Sounds like a reasonable proposal as long as early MG buyers get the financial incentive given above - reimbursement down to the 10k price -. I would be far less enthusiastic if priced higher. $10k is already pushing it and the "exclusive" factor is far weaker with 150+ units produced than with 25.

The difference in numbers between MG and RAZA pre orders makes this possible. Even better, this does not prevent Zidware from producing later RAZA once all MG orders are filled. And make sure John understands this as it will be easier for him to postpone RAZA than to cancel it completely.

Who knows? With videos of a flipping game and an agreement with a manufacturer you might actually see new potential customers like me interested... once the first pins ship. Magic Girl's artwork is absolutely stunning and I would love to see this project successful.

1 week later
#9600 4 years ago

I feel sorry for all of you - been a hard day at work, back home with 300+ new posts regarding JPop.
Know what you feel, been predator'ed. Believe it or not, I have more sympathy for Kevin than John... and still have not lost anything with Jpop.

The thing is that the investor could be legit.
But the way Jpop introduced the deal is so bad that no one can accept it. So dumb.
Were I the investor, the first thing I would have asked would have been to ask John to shut up.

The only chance is the mystery guy to show up real soon, apologizes for Jpop (!), change the deadline and accept to re-discuss the terms of the agreement.
- No more 1:2 conversion.
- Give a firm price, with a firm delivery date.
- Give a name and show you invest your money in the adventure.
- Allow full refunds.
- Find a way to pay Jpop's debts.

Assuming I had the $ to be the mystery investor, that's what I would do for the love of pinball.
Sadly, I am not.

#9619 4 years ago
Quoted from pinlynx:

My completely unfounded guess at who the mystery investor is....

My completely unfounded guess at who the mystery investor is is someone who took part in the production of PMI/IPB BBB.

#9769 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

My completely unfounded guess at who the mystery investor is is someone who took part in the production of PMI/IPB BBB.

I slept over that idea... and haven't changed my mind. These guys have shown their ability to produce a game on the same scale (a little bit less than 200 units) and deal with someone who was not easy (Gene Cunningham). That was 8 years ago.

Anyone to comment? Stupid idea?

#9771 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Even if this fantasy was reality, would anyone want this $16K game?
Even folks who would ONLY need to pony up another $10K?
Is this where you'd place your $16K of pinball money?
I'm thinking for $16K someone could own a Pat Lawlor JJP#3 and a Stern Game of Thrones pin...
or a MB and a MM....
or a ST Pro, ACDC Pro and a Met Pro!
Hard to imagine any sane scenario where that $16K goes to this fiasco.....

I am not even considering a $16k pin - no way I will put even a $250 deposit on that one.

Now comes the regular version - priced $10-12k.
For me, adding shipping ($1k?) customs and sales tax would put the game in the $13-16k range... something like 13,000€.

I would spend that amount of money on a modular platform (Heighway or Multimorphic) rather than on a single pin. Or I could buy 3 relatively recent Stern Pros.

#10150 4 years ago

Pintasia - Get rid of John.
Leave his name on the PF as "initial design by JPop" and cut all ties.

Not sure you would lose many current buyers that way but something is sure: I will never buy any game from a company currently listing John Popadiuk as a consultant. Ever.

#10676 4 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

Whoever builds the game could easily sell 1,000 MGs

Seems really optimistic, especially if priced >$10k.

How many TBL sold? Hundreds... Cool theme, decent artwork and the game plays nicely.
No one knows about MG's gameplay.

#10796 4 years ago
Quoted from danczaz:

No one there...tinted windows make for bad photos...

Thanks for sharing. MG cabinet artwork is gorgeous. It's quite fortunate I do not live closer, because I have to admit I could have felt for it after visiting his shop... No wonder so many of you gave JPop a pass for so long. I would have too.

Could a person like me become a MG / Pintasy customer now? Possibly...but are my conditions:
- no more JPOP, as a consultant or employee.
- priced below $10k (sorry, at $16k the game better come with a rug, Lebowski-style, except this one would be flying!)
- deposit below $1k. No more money until game ships.
- deal with a known manufacturer.
- a long video of gameplay showing code is mature.

#10991 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

$16k is beyond silly IMO

There were 3 reasons that justified (to some) this price tag in the first place:
1) a very small run, making this pin highly collectible
2) a legendary designer
3) a "spare no expenses" approach with promises of never-heard of toys.

1) 199 LE + "unlimited" regulars is no longer very small
2) still legendary, yes... but may be not for a good reason.
3) some of these innovations just appear as waste of time and money.

Add to that that in the meantime (these last 3-4 years - since the original MG announcement) the competition was not inactive:
- JJP has released a great pin, raised standards, (re)introduced LCD, etc...
- P3 seems far more innovative than anyone else
- Heighway platform looks cool
- Dutch Pinball has shown a prototype with great promises

so I am very doubtful one will see new buyers at $16k. This game has to priced in the same (high) range as WoZ, TBL or TH.
What Pintasy has is a good non licensed theme and great artwork. It needs to have good flow, decent rules and one or two great toys to compete for new buyers in the $9k+ market!

#11786 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

He actually blamed Spooky for torpedoing a supposed deal he had with Jack (this was like 2 years ago) which, even if true, was his own fault for involving me or Chuck in any capacity (it IS true Jack hates us)

Guess I trust Jack even less now.

#11790 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

When I look at those video files and think back to my conversations with John and at the time I and SteveP were begging him to open the flow of info and how reluctant he was to do it.
The day he opened up the Dev blogs I talked to him and it was like him birthing a baby that he had to give up for adoption. "I feel totally naked".
He has severe control anxiety!
The "project manager" that he had for a short time told me he was convinced John could have a game ready if he would have let the sourcing and production guys do their jobs
He was out of money by then

This is so sad.

On the other hand, seeing the videos released by applejuice, I suppose I am not the only one to realize MG was not vapor/promiseware but an actual flippable game since... early 2014? earlier?

Which makes me think producing MG is still possible. Knowing whether Pintasia can do it, and if MG/RAZA/AIW buyers can swallow this pill is a different story.

#12047 4 years ago
Quoted from The_Crow:

I have not been asked for any payments from these "investors" and the only motive i have seen from them is to bring these pinballs to something other than a dream. I have seen more positive information from them in the past few days than i have seen in months on the blog.

I was open minded too... until the Sabrina Wei-gate.
Simply too much for me.

#12111 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Exactly, and I said as much in the Vonnie D thread. I mean, Vonnie D dabbled in synthetic narcotics and is facing a 20 year stay in the Big House but what does all that have to do with building pinballs? Nothing. And Vonnie D is the best chance we have of seeing Pinball Gremlins get made. I just wish people would listen to what Vonnie has to say and stop all the negativity. What he did in the past has nothing to do with the present.

You got to be kidding, right?

#12121 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Of the list of "Cars a pin can fit inside" how many get scratched off that list with this tall cabinet?
My guess is a lot, since it's the folded down height that is the killer.

NDA: No Delivery Agreement.

#12591 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I think the no-go price point is more like $9K.

Quoted from iceman44:

The no-go price point is probably above 10k based on most of the people I've talked to.

Seen from a "group 2" potential buyer:
The No-Go price point is below $10k to me (and that would come with a lot of ifs...: gameplay / code / manufacturer / pay upon delivery / offers from other companies).
Pintasia better reveal fantastic innovations to justify $10k.
$16k for 199 machines is simply Alice(Pintasia) in Wonderland.

#12594 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There might be a handful of people in Group 1 at best.

Ice - was looking at your collection. Noticed you kept Predator (and RAZA) as "previously owned" like me (conflicting smileys I know... hard to find the correct one)
Our badge of (de)honor.

Quoted from iceman44:

I'm pretty sure people are operating today with eyes wide open today.

Zidware's game #4:

#13109 4 years ago

I am in for a MG print (unlimited or not, I do not care... but preferentially a color one) and for a BHZA (Ben Heck - **not** RAZA - assuming Ben agrees!) print.

Shut up and take my money!

#13383 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Pretty sure it is safe to say 'nothing is final'

Including the $16k price tag, I hope.

#14056 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

How many people would consider MG if JJP was producing and Keith was coding?
At at price tag in line with TH?
1600 TH orders so far?

Makes sense to the buyers. Even if JJP multiple delays are now the norm, this would give a real / tangible partner in. Assuming I am interested in TH, this is something I would consider... Unsure if the deal is interesting for JJP then:

Can they afford to cannibilize present TH sales - or Pat game #3 - to secure a future title? I may be wrong, but MG would compete more with JJP sales than with Stern LE models.
Would the current MG achievements worth $1M+? (JPop preorders would have to be considered as deposits). JJP knows how much it costed them to develop WoZ and TH - they would have to really look at MG current state and asses how advanced it is. It may be more advanced than the prototype shown at expo, but I doubt it is worth $1M.

#14350 4 years ago

Seen from a bystander, it is even worse to see that thread spiraling down into name calling and bickering than to know that so many of you lost your money.

Quoted from JosiahCox:

Be nicer to each other and only post when you have something of actual value to add to the conversation. This thread doesn't need any more fuel than what Jpop stoked it with.

#14540 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I have decided that it is not worth my effort or finances to move this to completion.

Sad, really. Thanks for trying.

#14714 4 years ago

Someone should auction some / all of Zidware artwork and pay the programmer and various bills. Obviously there won't be enough money to refunds preorders, even in part, but if this could repair some of the damage that would be great. Trouble is: no one would trust Jpop organizing that. But if one waits for bankruptcy, what are the odds of finding out that much of the stuff has already disappeared?

If I knew for sure the money would go to people who suffered Great harm I would definitely be a serious - and I mean serious - bidder for a MG backglass (my pockets are not deep enough for one of the prototypes and at least one belongs to a Museum. Not a big fan of the "Burn them all" approach, even if I understand the frustration!).

#14879 4 years ago
Quoted from stangbat:

Given the options of:
1) This is all some elaborate scheme John designed 4+ years ago to rake in money, pay himself a big salary and cash in, then evaporate
2) John's an idiot
I'm going with option #2.

I'am going with option #2 too but remember these options are not mutually exclusive. (change "elaborate" to a less glorious adjective though.)

#15409 4 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

to have a 4 year sabbatical from the real world

Love the formulation.
Wish he could have afforded that without taking preorders' money.

#15532 4 years ago
Quoted from swinks:

looks like he has scrubbed his pinside account

How could he changed the "last seen here" to September 2014 !??

#15659 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

You should talk to the WOOLY guys about maybe getting that game into production. That one is at least 95% finished for sure.

Seriously. Go to the twin cities and meet Scott. Play his prototype. You will be conquered.

#15945 4 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

I don't know about posting this kind of personal stuff on a public forum, it should be off limits.

I tend to agree. But at least it tells us JPop is not living in a luxury mansion. Just a "normal" house.

#16014 4 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

John was a one-man show trying to develop, build and sell a game. Antonio is a one-man show who developed, built and sold a game. Sounds relevant to me.

Guess one could have compared Zidware with Quetzal had Zidware only planned to make 19 MG. Similar small run size, doable by one in a garage with no factory and little help. They also shared something: MG and Nemo are the most beautiful pins I know!

The first major difference was the price... polar opposites: guess that was the "famous" vs "unknown", "US-based" vs "somewhere in Spain" effect... 200% difference.

The second major difference is that Antonio had a playable prototype in 2012. He brought it to a large pin tournament.

The third major different difference is that one planned to make a living out of it, while the other kept his job and hoped to break even.

In any case, as soon as a run of 100+ RAZA was announced, it made the "home-brew" model unstainable. No more doable in one's garage, one needs external help, if not a factory.

#16015 4 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

It is even more relevant because the board he designed to run Captain Nemo is the SAME BOARD that John is currently using in Magic Girl & RAZA.

It is not exactly the same board. Antonio redesigned it for MG and RAZA according to Jpop's specifications.

1 week later
#16171 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Was at the bay area launch party for KISS and ran into a friend of mine. In for 10k to Jfail. He's resigned, by his own words, to take the loss, and "stick his head in the sand", and didn't want to talk about it. You could tell it was a sore subject for him. Who could blame him?

I won't!

Quoted from jonnyo:

But both he and his girlfriend said they didn't go in on KISS because they're "absorbing" the losses.

Which tends to show that all these manufacturers are (were) competing with Stern, at least indirectly.
The money siphoned by Jpop and Skit-B (tell me about it!! ) is money lost for pinball, pure and simple.
My money spent on Predator would have gone to Star Trek or Mustang instead.

#16317 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I just read the whole letter,

Sorry for being clueless. Where is the letter? Not in a pinside post from JerseyJack, right?

1 week later
#16657 4 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

it's all detailed and takes a lot
longer, like a custom chopper"


1 month later
#17442 4 years ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

there is no reason Popadiuk could not have produced a viable working machine.

+1. And there are at least two viable working machines produced with far less money than JPop.

Antonio Ortuno released Nemo with very little cash. One of JPop customers has sent him more money than all of Quetzal Nemo customers sent to Antonio. Hardware is complete, game code needs some work.

Scott Gullick produced his initial two prototype with very little money (I remember a campaign to donate $5 to $500). And game is now essentially complete with great code (thanks Frank).

#17456 4 years ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:

Hey don't forget Wooly. The freakin gang over there shipped 4 games and didn't have 1 cent of funding.

Full disclosure: once Riot Pinball decided to produce 4 games, we - the lucky four - had to pay some $ in advance, if only to order parts. Guess the wait was the shortest in Boutique pinball manufacturing history, and we had regular updates like twice a month. In comparison to my wait for Nemo (37 months) this went so fast I already don't remember waiting...

You may argue that Scott and Frank's two prototypes were produced nearly without funding, besides a small Kickstarter-like campaign.

3 weeks later
#17860 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

He pocketed almost 3 times as much money NOT making games as I did bringing something real to market.

May be he should work for the European Union then, where farmers are subsidized when not producing goods.

#17872 4 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

Magic Girl looks amazing to me. I routing for all of Zid's game to be finished, but MG especially. The sound and art are above and beyond and if it ended up playing as well as any of John's BW games with modern rules I wouldn't complain. John's games might not be the absolute most popular from the pinhead community but they are definitely some of my personal favorites. Heck, CV to me really is the greatest pinball ever. Very unique experience for a very unique game designer. I'm sure something will turn up to help these games come along eventually, and if they are some of the best pin games ever created and the financials get sorted and people get games, I'm sure the saltiness of the current situation will dissolve and eventually be forgotten, while the cool games will be remembered.

I'll have the same drinks. Thanks. Have not been that high for decades.

1 week later
#18023 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_4_me:

This thread reflects all that is wrong with Pinside - a train wreck in every sense of the statement!

Feel free to leave that train wreck then.

I think this thread needs to be kept alive, as an active reminder to everyone. Closing it would be a mistake. And the Jpop mess is contained within one single thread (more or less) which is good.

Quoted from Pinball_4_me:

Robin, hang your head in shame for allowing this nonsense on your site

Sorry to ask, but how are you to make such demand? Not exactly used to do some boot licking to the Mods but there are polite ways to disagree and this one is not acceptable.

#18069 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I sent him $1500 one night for AIW because i was drunk and wanted to declare my support for the Ahole!

Remind to self: send a PM to Iceman when he seems drunk, offering new investment opportunities

#18139 4 years ago

Until 5 minutes ago I thought the pre expo dinner picture was from 2014...
Check the 2015 program for autograph and...http://pinballexpo.net/autogrph.php

(but... "Special Guest Speaker: Python Anghelo!" WTF ??? Is this last year's version?)

#18175 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

If John brings it to Expo, it will get torn into pieces by all the buyers, like the bad guy at the end of Mad Max Fury Road.

Beware. He would use this as an excuse. People can't sue him for not delivering a game, and then destroy the prototype he brings to Expo.

Not that I would not enjoy watching this though... guess I would not be alone.

#18206 4 years ago
Quoted from mwong168:

I don't know if would be sportin' a custom plate and parking it anywhere near Expo.

Cool one, thanks for sharing. Made me smile. Now looking for a Skit-B vanity plate. Anyone?

3 months later
#18492 4 years ago

Been reading JPop and Roger Sharpe's interviews in pinball magazine #3 in regard to the Kiss project. Interesting but saddening.

2 months later
#18709 3 years ago
Quoted from VacFink:

Maybe this thread should be moved to the basement,

I see your point, but I would argue it would not be a good idea as visitors would not see it (You need to log in to see the basement).
It's important the contents of this thread are visible to everyone.

#18718 3 years ago

I saw that too. If true...
Homepins is underestimating how radioactive Jpop is. Or may be I am too Pinside-centered. Have many Aussies been robbed by Jpop?

#18721 3 years ago

Then it makes more sense.

"it can’t be any of the top designers at Stern or Jersey Jack’s, and most of the other well-known designers are spoken for too"

What is Dennis Nordman doing right now?

#18726 3 years ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:

If Homepins has actually brought jpoop on board then they have lost all credibility. Jpoop is a know thief and a liar and he is not a genus designer as the Pavlov article claims.

Believe it or not but some people are still convinced JPop is a great designer.
A French pinhead told me he was the victim of naysayers.
Not making this one up.

#18730 3 years ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:

Is "naysayers" French for "people who were stolen from"??

Some days I just wonder.

6 months later
#19927 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

What a F ing joke.

Quoted from iceman44:

If this thread gets to 20k posts I'm quitting pinball R diddy.

Deep breath, Ice, Deep breath.
We don't want anyone to have a heart attack about this...

1 week later
#20050 3 years ago

Seen from an outsider: I never was a Jpop fan so I was (and still is) immune to the hype.

Quoted from CNKay:

But people never learn.

People never learn if they preorder from AP or put a large deposit.
But now assuming you could "cash and carry" a Houdini pin, why not? Especially if MG has shipped in the meantime?

AP (assuming it's legit and not a scam) made the bold bet that JPop name would attract publicity... well, it does! Good and Bad.

Time will tell if they can deliver. Let the MG/RAZA/AIW group of owners deal with AP. I'll keep an open mind until things are settled.

2 weeks later
#20272 3 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

Now that it's all over but the screaming...
This last month has been quite exciting for me. I'm not a journalist (as many nice, wonderful human beings have already commented), just a guy who loves pinball and wanted to deliver a good scoop to the pinball community. I never thought the people at American Pinball would take me seriously, so when they responded to my inquiry about the machine I used every last dime I had to go to Vegas and check it out.
It was a strange trip, too! Unlike any of my other Vegas excursions. I hardly drank, didn't gamble (okay $20 on a spin poker machine)... I tried my best to stay focused and do what I came to do, and no
matter what anyone says, I did what I set out to do.
Now that it's all over with... I wonder if I did get punk'd a little bit. Maybe Thunderbolt Levi is correct; maybe they didn't get a "real" journalist to come in and check it out because I'm a nothing nobody who would be dazzled by the proverbial, non-flipping box of lights.
But as dazzled as I was (and I was yawl, good god I was), I was actually more excited by Joe Balcer's presence! That dude has been involved with so many incredible pins, I was really having a hard time holding my fanboy-ness to myself.
Do you know how HARD it was for me to keep my mouth shut about that? They weren't sure of what Joe's involvement was going to be, so they didn't want me to mention him. Even though I was dying inside to do so! I think that would have legitimized things so much.
But, alas. And of course I had to go and get a month ban the day before the reveal. Probably for the best though, as I would have gone apeshit on the naysayers.
And speaking of: I really, really, really don't get the naysayers. I understand people being pissed about JPOP. But it almost seems to me that people would rather be on some "I told you so! JPOP sucks!" shit than to actually see people get their Magic Girls, or see Houdini come to light. And that makes me sad. I really, really wanted this to be a happy ending, a cinderella story, not to be all negative and solemnly swear that no good will come of this.
And then Expo happened.
I don't know or even remotely understand why it went from being shown in a cabinet to just the playfield on a table. I don't know what happened to the Magic Girl promise. I feel like a sucker. And that sucks because it ended up validating the naysayers.
So here we are. I still hope with all my evil might that people will get their Magic Girls. I hope that Houdini will be made. But that hope is fading fast.
Big ups to Minus World and Mr68. You were both very helpful in my time of need.

Welcome back! Must have been hell of a rollercoaster.

2 months later
#20507 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

But let us make a bet toyotaboy...
I paypal you $25 if they don't get build,you paypal me $25 if they get build.
If 2017 ends( let's give em a year )we'll see who has to pay who,let pinside be our witness.

Just to clarify:
Are you talking about Houdini, or MG?
And what do you mean by "build"? As in JPop-Kiss blinking box of lights? Or as a playable game shipped to customers?

1 month later
#20770 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

MG is like most 'collectables' put out now.. artificial scarcity and BOUGHT from the start as a collectible. So there won't be the same type of scarcity+demand.

I see your point, but if I had to choose between BM66 SLE and MG (in the same price range) I would pick MG. The 6-year wait will make it legendary, assuming it's not simply a shining box of lights.

(My opinion of course, and I confess a bias towards the underdog)

#20984 2 years ago

Welcome back Kim!

Really an amazing week.

#21204 2 years ago

Well, I think your position is now clear.
May I suggest to stop for a while to avoid a "broken record" moderation?

Quoted from Whysnow:

Go research bankruptcy laws and then come back. There is a good reason i am suggesting people retain a lawyer asap and then let the courts sort it out.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Or they got preferrential treatment in delivery of assets... That is for the court to decide.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I have started to research IL lawyers that are experts in the matter and may be a good fit if anyone wants more info to get things moving.

Quoted from Whysnow:

You don't understand how the bankruptcy law works. I don't know all the details but i do know 100% that they can claw back preferrential disbursement of assets.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I got word that at least 1 person is looking into things and I would also suggest others get involved. The sooner you get on the lest to secure your debt, the better.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I have advised people to get their shit in gear and find a lawyer to force bankruptcy. Note... Find a lawyer is step no 1.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I really hope the RAZA folks are getting together/ organized and forcing bankruptcy NOW/ASAP.

1 week later
#22589 2 years ago

"It's still in the box and unopened".

No wonder! One can't be disappointed by missing game features that way.

#22684 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I hate that nauseous feeling when waking up behind a bus station and wondering, Was I on Pinside last night?

If the only thing you could not remember was whether you posted on pinside the day before, I think you're lucky

#22693 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Wait 6 years for a pin, then sell it unboxed for a few $k profit. I cannot understand this. I want to play the damn thing. Aren't these people curious? Obviously this doesn't apply if you've got two and sell one.
My MG arrives at the house tomorrow. And it will be played, man.

Nemo and MG arriving within one month! ... impressed.
You know when Martin will post his report on Nemo, by the way? Is he coming back for Magic Girl?

#22813 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I'm not following the reasoning behind the sticker confirming this position. They did say they designed 2 prototypes, so it was 19 complete and "2 imperfect" or something along those lines.

Not reading "prototype" this way.
I remember that a rich French collector told me he contacted JPop begging for a MG spot. The Great Man told him all regular machines were taken, but he could may be spare prototype #4 or #5.
My understanding is that "Prototypes" were a convenient way to increase numbers and generate cash. Or machines that were promised to people who worked on the project.

Any idea how many MG have actually shipped?

#22937 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

I'm half paid on RAZA. I'll gladly sell my spot for a fraction of what I paid. Anyone interested please pm me.
Thinking of selling for 30 percent less than what I have in it.

You are not the only one... https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-retro-atomic-zombie-adventureland-1

#23071 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

OK people, prepare your down votes.

Lol... I'll have to try this one too

Capture d’écran 2017-03-09 à 21.14.46 (resized).png

#23199 2 years ago

Moved to Oysters subforum (I prefer them raw... although I confess a good Po' boy sandwich justifies by itself a trip to New Orleans!)

Back on topic...

Quoted from Concretehardt:

it seems like the disk is spinning the wrong way!

Same impression!

1 month later
#23371 2 years ago

Gentle moderation notice... it's a JPop thread!!
Please try to keep it on topic, thanks.

#23399 2 years ago

Wish I saw this auction before: I'am already priced out... Would have loved to be the virtual owner of a MG pin, at least for one minute. But $10,400 is already beyond my means!

Curious to see the final price!

1 month later
#23569 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Please, JPOP couldn't pour you a soda if you gave him a glass and the can of soda.

To be fair, he would probably be redesigning the glass from scratch and patenting a new type of soda bubbles instead.

6 months later
#23825 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Why is pinball hyphenated in the first sentence?

He probably patented it?

4 months later
#23948 1 year ago
Quoted from rommy:

produce an estimate of how much the (four?) big failures have cost us?

JPop, Heighway Pinball, Skit-B and... ?

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