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(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..

By iceman44

6 years ago

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24 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #7211 Zombie Yeti (Jeremy Packer), first post on the Magic Girl/JPop fiasco Posted by zombieyeti (5 years ago)

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (3 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (3 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (3 years ago)

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#1 6 years ago

So I've decided to start another thread since I've been "ejected" from another Jpop thread on two of his pins I own because of the total DB's that continue to ruin everything…………

Eject this……..

I'm so excited about RAZA, it looks awesome so far and am thrilled to have Jpop leading the charges here. So I can't wait to see more from Jpop on RAZA and AIW, I think there is still availability left on AIW!

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Im in! RAZA here I come!

Way to go WC! You just get in? Congrats!

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Just in today. Hoping not financing magic girl oh wait might be in on that one too! Im screwed (in the head)

No way, you are good to go, have you been able to access the blog yet? Welcome to the club!

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

It's weird to have a public update on a NDA but whatever floats your boat.

The NDA is way overblown, no proprietary secrets disclosed here. John I think has evolved to a different mentality versus day one of the NDA stuff. I really don't think anybody could copy the genius that he brings to the table anyway. See Kiss proto art………

Any patents applied for can be searched on the USPO site so nothing is really secret and the "competition" just isn't Jpop…….

I'll post some art pics of RAZA on the next update unless John blows a gasket, which I doubt…..

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

sent me the site to go through is that what your talking about ice? Pdx are you in on this as well? Still need to pick up one of those jpop pins your holding for me!

There is a "blog" that has all the updates….need username and password, if you don't have it yet just pm me and I can give you mine to check it out…..

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

What is this "DB" you speak of?
Any word when game 1 is to start shipping? I understand he moved into a space to set up a production line not too long ago or is he outsourcing production?
Edit----what are rough estimates on machines being produced per title or is it unknown, I though Magic Girl was only ~20~ machines?

Yes Flanker, you are the pin side DB ratings giver, so I think you know what I speak of!

approx 21 for MG, 125, for RAZA and 133 for AIW….as for "when", I don't know, but i somehow feel better about that than when the remaining Woz LE will ship or the start date of the Hobbit, which I don't really worry about either….

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

RAZA1.jpg 34 KB

RAZA2.jpg 36 KB

RAZA3.jpg 35 KB

He showed that artwork at the show……so beyond that! I wish I could post the updated you tube videos of all the progress but "sick" is definitely the word for it and then some…...

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

You may have me confused with someone else. Go Spurs!

Nice, cant wait to play a finished machine of any of these, Hell I cant wait to see some pics of early production machines.

I pm'ed you that OKC would tie it up last night! Arghhhhh, Spurs are mentally F ed up now, they think they have to play a "perfect" game to beat OKC now with Ibaka……my Spurs fan brothers just can't believe that the clock is ticking on Duncan and Ginobili, how old did they look the last two?

Epic game coming tomorrow! Should be the best game of the playoffs…..

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

rareheros thumbs down button is stuck again can someone help?

It's Greg, he can't help himself, what does anybody expect, sorry Greg, but the mod whining won't do any good this time, hehe…..

Now, back to the Jpop update thread and forgetting obvious trolls….

#43 6 years ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

and he himself will tall you that you can have the best design, but if the software isn't there, it will not be good.

That's the biggest concern, will the rules be great, the artwork and creativity is a given, integrating that Lcd is gonna be a bear on top of that so we will see if he can make a beautiful machine a great player.

It's definitely way beyond "concept drawings and a few parts" but it does have quite a ways to go, I would say by the end of this summer we will be looking at a 95% complete prototype in terms of art, cab, layout, and actual finalized pin, then it will be who knows when on the software build out.

#58 6 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Just to clarify, the NDA covers only stuff from private conversations and the private blog, workshop visits, etc. Anything already revealed to the public by JPOP (through public postings on FB or the like, displaying at a public event, etc.) isn't covered by the NDA and can be freely reposted (but not copied!). I'm pretty sure the NDA has language to that effect; it's pretty standard. (You can't get in trouble for 'revealing' something that is already public knowledge!)

That's true and the fact that Jpop, despite having patents and such, would have a difficult time financially enforcing any of these much less a violation of an NDA. It's meant as a deterrent and I think John has become resigned to the fact that people are going to copy his stuff and there isn't a whole lot he can do about it in reality.

See Samsung versus Apple patent fights, as usual, only the lawyers win there, especially the latest bout, and we are talking about companies with billions in cash on hand to fight claims. The patent system is broken in this country and has been for a long time. The little guy can't ever win.

#59 6 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Hopefully jpop can get some good gameplay in these new machines to go along with the killer artwork. Right now I'm skeptical, but hope to be proven wrong.

Everybody is rightly skeptical, as am I, but at the end of the day, you'll have a very "limited" run of what could be a great player with guaranteed blow out artwork and innovation.

I'll be happy with just letting it sit there and look at it like a piece of artwork if nothing else! I'm sure we'll be able to find some enjoyment out of the game play though......

#67 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Because of the rules. Not the PF design. Johns PF designs are mostly superb. I'd think it's not really his fault that the rules on some of his designs are lacking.

That said: who is doing the programming for RAZA? Is Ben Heck involved in this project at all anymore?

Maybe with total control now the rules will be better than Bally/Williams days? There is going to be some fun and cool stuff to shoot at!

I'll be posting some update stuff that shouldn't be a "violation" but should help sell some pins!

#78 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

See previous RAZA thread. He started this thread due to being banished from the :zzz:other one... and there are no actual updates in this thread. Thumbs down for being off-topic in his own thread.

Get out! JK keep it up. FYI only 24 hr ban thanks to your whining and my bad behavior

#80 6 years ago
Quoted from gprotein:

How about who is going to assemble all these fine pieces of artwork? Not some ham-fisted, inexperienced volutneers I hope.

The tooth fairy?

#81 6 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

What did iceman44 do to earn a thumbs down on every single post?

Because it's the nature of Greg? Just can't have a discussion without the aholes coming out in full force. This is everything Jpop

#82 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Because it's the nature of Greg?

Whatever, I don't care. Back to Jpop discussion, good bad and ugly. Not about me

#85 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Yes. So back to it.
My questions are still unanswered regarding who is doing the programming, and what were the circumstances regarding Ben Heck no longer being involved in this project?
Also, like GProtein asked, and I've asked before too, who will be putting these together? It's a small run, so it doesn't make sense to have Stern do it like PPS is with MMr, but 125 pins is still way too many to have just a few guys doing it.

How is SkitB pumping out 250?

We aren't at production stage yet but I'm sure it will be a bunch of hamfisters and idiots doing the job. Good point. And I really don't know who is doing the programming right now, yes it's happening, but most likely a total idiot wouldn't you think? Aren't you glad you bailed out?

Maybe it will never get made and/or code will suck. Happy now? That's a risk we all know.

#89 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

If people don't even know who is doing the programming at this stage of the project, this thread will be even more useless than I thought it would be.

Then don't participate in this "useless thread", no major thumbs up action here, just ignore and move on….you've exposed the worthlessness of this thread, congrats...

Look, I just want to know who else is in, what their thoughts are, and provide a place for others to get interested…..

We are all well aware of what you and Greg think, no need to stoke the BS over and over again!

#94 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You say the programming "is happening" but you don't know who is doing it?

I didn't say I didn't, Jpop just said, like JJP just experienced, there is a monumental amount of crap to integrate that Lcd with the game play, and probably why Stern can't/hasn't done it yet. Maybe it will be an epic fail, that is a big concern of mine, but I don't lose sleep about it.

I want to provide as much update as possible here without any kind of NDA violation which I think is becoming a whole lot less of an issue than in the beginning.

The idea should be to get the word out and let people know what's going on in the pinball world without hurting the IP……which is WAY overblown for many reasons

Changed to a thumbs up btw I'll post what I can confirm, not what I think based on comments made on the blog, shouldn't be any kind of NDA violation

#95 6 years ago
Quoted from homebrood:

Good luck getting your games...

It may never happen, you are correct! But "Zidware does not = Vaporware" and I certainly wouldn't bet against it….

But for some unknown reason of pure hatred and whatever else, Greg hopes it blows up like you

#97 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's all about started it because you were banned from the other thread. There are no updates in this thread yet....just more insults.
When is Magic Girl shipping?

I'm no longer "banned"…..move on pal……..get over yourself, nothing to see or report here for you, let it go

I know when MG is shipping but can't say because of you….

I'm done even responding to you, ignore everything on here and what I say! Go crap on some other thread…..

Rommy, what's your update?

#100 6 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Nice going Greg! Now we're all gonna just sit here in suspense.

Move on Aurich, nothing to see here, no suspense for you or thumbs up activity….just move on

Updates will be forthcoming for the people that actually care for crying out loud!

There, I gave you a thumbs up to pump up your total, next thread You guys are cracking me up, like vultures on roadkill carcass, just can't help it can you?

Game time, updates coming soon!

#102 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I'm really starting to think that this is a troll thread that you started. Seriously.
I've asked completely legitimate questions that should be easy to answer, and all you do is get personal and super defensive, with answers like

What kind of response is that? Can't you be calm and not take things so personally? Again, these should be EASY QUESTIONS TO ANSWER. Not one's that incite the kind of responses that you are giving.

You don't get all the answers right now! I don't have all the answers right now! This is a thread for updates now and in the future! Seriously, wtf is so hard to understand about that?

I don't take ANYTHING personally, and have no problem with you or Aurich, only one guy that obviously has some kind of constant thumbs down hatred complex, I don't know, but he keeps proving what he is? All legit questions by you guys, see my RESPONSES, I have concerns, get that?

This thread is for current and future updates for those that care and I know you are interested so no problem. In fact, at some point you can pm me and I'll give you my log in to the blog if you agree to a "sub NDA"…..

#106 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

If you think that our questions are legit, then why did you give some of the responses that you did about the programmer "being an idiot, don't you think" or the pins being assembled by "hamfisted idiots"?
Those don't sound like responses someone would give if they thought the questions were legit.
If you don't know, just say you don't know. Then there wouldn't be all this back and forth nonsense.

Really, I guess sarcasm is a lost art form? You should know me by now... Wait, you do so what is the question designed to provoke?

#107 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

well, to be fair, Stern still works in secret and doesn't even announce the title till they are ready to sell. jpop is used to working in secrecy from his time at WMS. The owners blog is his compromise to let the people with some money invested know something about what is happening, but I understand his desire to just work in secret. I think ideally someone fronts him the entire nut to create a game and then sell it after, but what we have now is just how its going to be.

Everybody, Stern, Jpop, PPS and JJP are so wound tight about IP and competition right now the constant round and round threats are somewhat ridiculous…..

The reality of it all is a totally different truth…..

#123 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

You signed a LEGAL document for F#*& sake. And yet you are publicly willing to completely disregard that and hand the information out to anyone that PMs you? That's slimy and classless. I send NDAs to sub-contractor that work for my business all the time; I sure hope they respect my company's privacy more than you do Jpop's.

I was kidding for F#*& sake! Lighten up Francis.......There is no such thing as a "sub NDA", as a scumbag lawyer, I'd know that..

#124 6 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Let's be honest, this thread is dumb. The game is under NDA, by definition there are no updates to be had. Just enjoy your private blog party, you paid for it after all, and when it's ready for the world to see we can all judge and hopefully be awed and enjoy.

Short version: ice, keep it in your pants.

There are updates for us folks involved, whether you like it or not, if you don't, move on....just saying

Look at Rommy's post, there are things people can post about visits to his place, in general...Have fun on your trip Rommy, sounds great!

Trolls move on, you don't get to decide what threads you want to censor and which ones are not, even though some of you act like you own the place......

It's a place for owners to talk amongst each other and others to weigh in with their opinions....we don't get to do that on the private blog

#128 6 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Opinions on what? You can't even legally discuss anything!
"Did you see that update last night? Pretty cool art huh?"
"Yeah, that ... you know, the center part, that was sweet."

Don't you have several other hundred threads to go waste time in? Surely you can enlighten everybody elsewhere in all of the genius threads you participate in?

Ever watch Seinfeld? It was a great show about "nothin". Ha!

No need to clutter up here, we get it

#129 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Don't you have several other hundred threads to go waste time in? Surely you can enlighten everybody elsewhere in all of the genius threads you participate in?
Ever watch Seinfeld? It was a great show about "nothin". Ha!
No need to clutter up here, we get it

At least this site has one garbage free thread in the Woz owners thread. What a breath of fresh air!

#137 6 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

And, at this point, that's all there is to see. The dev site is not live yet.

John said its coming by mid June for AIW, be on the lookout!

I've paid my deposit for that one based on what I've seen on RAZA

#140 6 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Lol, a little late but right on target.
» YouTube video

Yep, Nemo been in the works for a long time now, looks great!

So, Woz or AIW or whatever, its right on target….. Really thankful for the boutique guys making great pins!

#144 6 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

Ummm...I just looked at the top page only, saving it for the trip really. WTF!!! You should not have started this thread the hell are we supposed to NOT talk about that stuff? in this thread?? It's called a "honey pot" , or , as Admiral Ackbar so succinctly put it - "It's a trap!" A thread like this could generate some SERIOUS cash for some lawyers doing the circle jerk sue(tm). All you need is to add one clueless insurance company into the mix and you got a batch brewing!

Haha, yep, pretty exciting stuff, you'll be in for AIW after you get through the thread, blog on that one soon, there will be more stuff I think that John will be putting out there as we get closer to the finish line.

Quoted from jlm33:

Should be home soooooooon - within weeks !
I have been waiting for mine for more than two years now...

Congrats Jim, looks like the wait was well worth it!…….

#145 6 years ago
Quoted from Skulz:

Damn Ice, how could you leave out Kiss from the thread title?

I think Stern is trying to get that license now after John did that great mock up, seriously…..the problem is Stern doesn't have Jpop?

#153 6 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Oh and I will ask about NDA and how he sees it. Want to hear from the horses mouth. Disclaimer I have not signed one yet!

The NDA is what it is and while it might still be important I don't think it has the same level of concern from his standpoint when the venture first started and all of the things that have transpired in the interim. It's about protecting IP and that is almost impossible under the current broken US system, especially for small business owners. There isn't a lawyer in the country, except for maybe a die hard pin head who wants to waste his time, that would take on trying to quantify the damages number one and then number two work on a contingency fee basis and thus, leaving John to shell out big bucks on an hourly basis to recover what? And from whom, a bunch of judgment proof pinheads? It's basically an honor system.

Ok Wc, Question #1 has to be who is doing the programming! And that may have to be questions 2-10 as well……

I thought originally it was going to be Ben H. but now its still somewhat of a mystery, Steven P is right, the music and sound will be the best out there unless the other guys leapfrog…..

#2 When do you think production of MG will begin……….."ish"

#3 When do you think production of RAZA will begin……."ish"

#4 After building out the platform and base system for future pins like AIW, how long would you predict the production cycle to be since so many things have already been put into place?

#5 How many patents do you currently own and how many more are on the drawing board to be applied for…….

#6 Since you have moved into the new space, how many pins do you think you could reasonably produce on a weekly basis……."ish"

#7 What if you meet a premature death? Is there a key man term policy set up to fund to essentially reimburse deposited funds, like an escrow account. I'm pretty certain John is "key", "critical" and whatever other word denoting MVP level you can think of!

#8 Will there come a time that as things get rolling we could get a little better accounting system so we know where we stand on payments? i.e. setting up a Quickbooks invoicing system is simple

#9 How long do you plan on producing pins under the Zidware brand, can you ever fathom a time that you might go work for a Stern or a JJP? Is that out of the question?

#10 Back to the programming question again, since its not PROC, will there be an opportunity for future updated software releases on all Jpop pins as sort of a "service pack" that we can pay for? It's a "boutique" business, why not be different, after all, paying big bucks for a limited pin that should have "longevity" and not get stale.

1 month later
#157 6 years ago

3 protos are being assembled now

Looking forward to that case of beer from RD

1 month later
#235 6 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

I might get it if MG was out and I saw the design elements for RAZA...get a machine out there JPOP!

The MG reveal is supposed to be coming very soon. There should be 60 or so of those.

RAZA is coming along nicely, working on finishing the wiring harnesses amongst many other things.

Yes it will be a while but worth the wait for me! I have plenty of other pins to play in the meantime. Not a big deal.

#236 6 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Give me the # you used then because he has never answered an # I have found. Maybe he just knows Im an asshole and doesn't want to speak with me. I spent my money on THLE now though.

It must be just you James!

Btw, you will have plenty of time to wait on AIW and still get in. At least until he reveals MG and everybody blows a nut on how awesome it is

#243 6 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Yes I agree, cry me a river. Like that's gonna do anything to the value!!!! If it's a hit, and less than one third that of BBB your talking in the neighborhood of about 66k ?? isn't that how it works

Haha, yep, you got it WC, at least 50k!

Well, I think the reality hit for John that you can't possibly make 17 or 21 pinball machines and not go broke no matter how much you charge for them. Need quantity discounts along with covering all the fixed overhead, which is exponentially less than Stern and JJP.

Jpop is like an early Steve Jobs of pinball! A freaking perfectionist, but the end result will be phenomenal.

As for cash flow for business, what startup doesn't need it?

Like i said, the big reveal is "coming very soon" and for Jpop, he needs to get it out there to drive sales and enthusiasm of his brand and AIW.

You saw his KISS artwork. What we've seen so far is like a piece of art. F it, I might just set it up and do nothing but turn the lights on and look at the damn thing!

#247 6 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Breaks down to him spending 300% of budget really. Expected to take 1.5 years and require x whitewoods. It will end up taking 4.5 years and 3 (???) x whitewoods. You don't want our man thrown out on the street do ya? This approach will probably factor into his decision of how many RAZA's to make when that time arrives.

Certainly could be, but based on what I think, the 124 on RAZA can get it done, if not, go to 250.

Vulture capitalists, well you know the general story. I'm sure Jack found that out quickly.

#260 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

We don't even know if this guy can build 1 completed unit and you want him to make 500 or 1000!?!?!

We didn't know if Bill Gates could create Microsoft out of his garage after dropping out of college.

We didn't know that Steve Jobs would have created the highest value company in the history of the world after his previous failures.

I think Jpop can build whatever amount of pins he has in mind. Just saying.

Some people have vision, others don't…...

#263 6 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

image-49.jpg 6 KB

The blind leading the blind? Go back to our TWD love fest Rick, we get to play that one soon, while we wait on pure genius!

3 weeks later
#266 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

There's a difference between designing and building.
I have no doubt Jpop can design a game.
Can he build one? Then mass produce?

Building is easier, can always contract it out, like PPS did. And in this case I'm sure he is going to use "contract labor".

But yes, he will show the progress at expo and I predict that people will be slobbering all over themselves to jump in. And I predict he will be able to build whatever numbers he sells. Who knows, that's just me, but before they come out, its easy to say he can't do it, nothing is guaranteed.

3 weeks later
#270 6 years ago

Hum diddy diddy fellas!

Starting to get jiggy

#317 6 years ago

These are just the cabs, why would we be upset? We know what's going in there!

I thought we might see a MG there........

#360 6 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

New Zealand's biggest brewer, Lion Breweries, heard of the famous Iceman-RD wager and have created a special beer to prematurely celebrate our victory (cough...) Us kiwis take a wager seriously!
Check it out! A nice fresh tasting beer it is too.

image-297.jpg 6 KB

Hmmm. That one seems appropriate!

#365 6 years ago

The port hole on the side of the pin is called the "love you long time" hole.

Wait until you see what's inside, "happy endings"

#370 6 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

Pay your money, drop your pants, and wait two years.

That's why it's Love you LONG time

#373 6 years ago

Still time for a grand finale MG happy ending.

Party at Johns pad? With a different kind of Magic Girl

#379 6 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I'm guessing JPOP will also announce game #4 and #5 during his seminar.

He's already on #6. I know, I've got deposits on the first five

BBB has 222 pins produced. RAZA 125 and will blow it away. I'll take RAZA, when it finally arrives, besides 10k is the new normal

#386 6 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

A lot of pins blow bbb away now
Id rather have my money in a machine i can play in my office now

I have plenty of those "play right now" pins

Maybe the point was lost BBB 15k now with the pin deflation?

John is what he is. A genius pinball designer, one of the best ever. I can wait

#390 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I am/was good with waiting, but it's the not having a clue part of where we're at and how much longer it will be that I don't like.
John told me 18 months ago that MG prototypes were being built and ready for spring 2013. I get that there are set backs, but no one has seen a flipping game at all. I can only guess RAZA is a year off still? Will we have it xmas 2015? No even factoring in how long they'll take to build (another year?). Spooky can make 2 machines a week, why would that not be a normal number for all boutiques?

If Spooky can build them why would you assume Jpop can't?

Why does it take a full year for Stern to update code on a new pin?

When was Woz supposed to be done?

It will be done when it's done.

#394 6 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

You had me excited. Too bad this turned out to not be true.

It's not over yet. A huge missed opp if he doesn't reveal MG.

#396 6 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

With all the hype and delay, I don't see any possible way this game could meet expectations.

Sounds like Woz Honch? He will deliver, I've seen enough of MG, if the MG guys were to say they are disappointed id like to hear it.

#401 6 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

How is it not? Is he going to pop a playfield in his machine and let word of mouth advertise it. If he didn't show it at his scheduled time, he has no intention on showing anything at the show, especially if he took the backglass back off 5 seconds after putting it up when everyone starting pulling phones out.
I'm sure he has "something" designed and built, he posts some details on facebook.. If he chooses not to show it, it is what is is. I just don't know why you wouldn't want to show it off if you have something done.

Like I said, I've seen what he has done. I'm surprised he's not showing off MG. I guess he feels he has his buyers lined up and doesn't care. Who knows

#403 6 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I'm disappointed he didn't bring it. And if he did bring it, I'm disappointed he hasn't shown it. I'm disappointed there has been zero communication on the owners blog in the last 5 weeks. I'm disappointed that when I try to post on the blog I get an error saying that comments are not allowed from me. I'm disappointed at the disproportionate amount of time spent on other projects while MG waits. I'm disappointed at the lack of details given to owners, specifically playfield photos, playfield art, toys, programming info and LCD pictures and video.

He's been on the Raza blog with a lot lately. Seems to rotate. Not disappointed with what you have seen though, right? I'm waiting for MG too

#404 6 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

Ice - are you saying mg is done?

Based on my conversation with John I expect it to be done or very close to production time. I'm sure perfection is getting in the way of putting a bow tie on it

#411 6 years ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:

Have you ever considered that it might be "obsessive compulsive disorder".... From Wikipedia:
"Its sufferers commonly share personality traits such as high attention to detail, avoidance of risk, careful planning, exaggerated sense of responsibility and a tendency to take time in making decisions."
I really admire all of your patience and faith and I really hope you all get your machines, I really do but this build is getting way out of hand.

I'm sure John would acknowledge OCD. He really is amazing, all these great designers and coders are. I think you'll see future pins roll a lot more smoothly as he gets his foundation in place.

But yeah, it's excessive OCD

#430 6 years ago

"Sad sack"

Jpop messed up opportunity but he prob doesn't care, buyers are and will line up

Disclaimer "if it ever gets done"

Since he talked about the porthole it's pretty obvious there is going to be a cool atomic glowing reactor in there. So you position your pin properly!

#443 6 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

so the port hole thing is still secret for those who bought into the game(s)? He didn't say anything publicly about them yet?

See my post above. That's what it is

#456 6 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

I appreciate that your primary concern is the quality of the pin, so if it takes time, so be it -BUT...
like everything else, JPOP has overhead. Not high overhead, but everything costs money month after month.
With a limited number of games being produced, my concern is whether he'll run out of cash flow before he gets all these games made.

That's why he's making more MGs.

#460 6 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

At the expense of his owners trust and the contract we signed as buyers.
...and without a discount to the early owners who paid in full whose games will inevitably be devalued.
Could you kmagine the apocalypse that would occur on Pinside if stern said "let's now make triple the number of TRON LE's"

Yeah that was a bad move up front. He made a mistake thinking he could produce only 17 pins and survive. The original guys should get something!

#464 6 years ago

I don't think John thought that one through!

And he said he was working hard getting ready for expo

I have to believe he took a good look around at TBL and the other shit getting $$$

#467 6 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

I'm just wondering why he would even need a booth for that showing. Perhaps he expected to bring more when he bought the spot. At any rate, I would recommend that all pinheads stop crowdfunding these guys. With his resume, he should have easily found VC (if he didn't already have a reputation for practicing "Perfect is the enemy of good").
My prediction is a financial collapse before the first machine is delivered.
From wikipedia:
Achieving absolute perfection may be impossible and so, as increasing effort results in diminishing returns, further activity becomes increasingly inefficient. Watson-Watt, who developed early warning radar in Britain to counter the rapid growth of the Luftwaffe, propounded a "cult of the imperfect", which he stated as "Give them the third best to go on with; the second best comes too late, the best never comes."

I wouldn't expect anything else from Sad Sack!

Everybody gets crowd funded today. Do you want pinball machines to be made? Stern is the only one

#471 6 years ago

Ditto for me too Frolic!

#475 6 years ago

One of the things I hope John realizes, as constructive criticism, you shouldn't show up to Expo with two empty boxes and expect to wow people when you have TBL, Heighway, Wooly and others blowing people away.

He has a ton of great stuff to show, overly concerned about the intellectual property issues.

#522 6 years ago
Quoted from Multiball1:

Iceman, you've said this a number of times in numerous blogs. Forget RAZA for a second, with regards to only Magic Girl how many is he making in total and can you please site the exact source of this information? Not challenging you, but I'm a MG "owner" and I haven't heard this at all.
I know you believe this to be fact but upon inquiry of this exact issue I was told by numerous sources that it's not the case. Multiple sources have told me 25 games in total. I know the initial was 17 with the contractual right to produce up to 25 games.

Well, my source is John himself. I and a few others I know are on the list that as soon as the announcement and reveal is made we are to be ready to pay for the pin. I have a confirmation card.

In my conversation with him he acknowledged that it was impossible to build a pin at any cost with a number at 17 or even 25. Makes sense. My concern from day one and why i didn't jump in initially.

I thought we would be getting the reveal and the call to pony up during expo. 40-50 ish

#525 6 years ago

Actually I think it's an offer to people who are already in on both RAZA and Aiw Not sure though

#538 6 years ago
Quoted from Multiball1:

I'm sorry Iceman, what's the offer you're referring to?

I think its just an informal offer to owners of RAZA and AIW that might want an MG.

I get what NYP and others are saying. Building a certain amount and then having to change course is not the optimal outcome, I think its just simply one of those live and learn things and a mistake was made by John. You can't make 13 or 17 pins of anything at any price due to the part costs, they have to be spread out over a larger number to make it work. Now he knows.

#547 6 years ago
Quoted from Multiball1:

So on the additional 25 MGs he is producing (bringing the number up to 50) at this point in time what is the total amount that those 25 owners were required to pay, or have paid? I'm assuming like RAZA the full amount wasn't required yet?

No money yet. He just said be ready. I assumed expo reveal obviously not

#568 6 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

AGREED as of right now John has not told me he's changing the amount of MG's so frankly it's a rumor started by Iceman who I don't even know. As an owner of MG and RAZA it would be nice to be better informed.

Call it whatever you want or call John himself. What part of that don't you get? Others here have confirmation cards from John. You know, Jpop

#581 6 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

What I'm saying is pretty simple, as an owner he should keep me informed better. I haven't received any 'confirmation card' whatever that is, or have I read anywhere on his blog, or received an email or phone update that the number of MG's was increasing. I don't think I'm the only one. Personally I think it would be better to inform your customers directly rather than have it leaked out on pinside.

Uhhh, yeah, I'm with you 1000% on that. We are all in the same boat with the secrecy thing!

Obviously at least 25 other people knew about the additional MG's long before I ever said anything, and as far as that goes, no idea how that could be some secret anyhow or the fact that some of the original 25 didn't know?

But then it started at 13, went to 17 and then to 25. You guys should want 50, otherwise its not gonna get done. He's gonna need the $$$ to complete them.

As for the communication, he's just the "mad professor", that needs an assistant to say the least!

#588 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I think a lot of us were expecting something significant at this expo. It can't be business as usual anymore, something has to change.

Well that is what John said, "big reveal coming". I don't get it.

We are all good Multiball1, NYP, I really don't know what to think either. Had I already put down 17k it would be very concerning. My understanding was that there would be more pins and maybe a little lower price for everybody and something additional for the early adopters. Who knows. We are all on this crazy ride together.

I've been in RAZA for a long time now and signed up for AIW.

I can honestly say I have no clue how much I have paid in to RAZA its been that long or where things stand on the payment schedule.

What I hope happens is John can get a good "financial partner" to help budget and get these pins built and out the door.

#598 6 years ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

Yeah I want to post on the wordpress thread but I can't with my iPhone (don't know why it just says 'user can not comment'
I will tomorrow when I have laptop access
The good and the bad

I can't wait to hear it. I will wait to describe what I really think is going on.

#609 6 years ago
Quoted from Multiball1:

I know we're all on the same team and want the same thing, and you're aces in my book, but I have to respectfully disagree with you gentlemen with regards to the above.
1. It's not simply a live and learn thing.
He F'd it up, he bares the brunt of that mistake. JPOP doesn't get to live and learn with my money, he eats it. If a commercial construction company wins a contract from the state to do a set job for a set price, and then they go over budget or learn half way through that something they did needs to be amended, they don't get to live and learn at the state's expense, the construction co. takes the hit. I don't want to hear how that's a big corporation and he's essentially a one man operation. He has taken in well over a million dollars...that's big boy money, and JPOP needs to be treated like a big boy and suffer the same setback any larger company would.
2. Original 25 MG owners should want 50 or it's not going to get done. That's not true either.
Look I know it's a good problem to have, but if Lamborghini announces they are going to create 25 collectors edition vehicles and once they sell out of them on pre-order they announce they are going to double production to cover unanticipated costs, those original 25 owners don't necessarily still want it. Well 3 years ago a $17k pinball was sure as hell the collector's Lamborghini of still is. JPOP has immediately diminished the value of my machine by producing double the amount. I don't care if it sounds like boo hoo there are now 50 of my precious machine it will be worth great as he is his work doesn't make it a $17k pin. Why is RAZA only $10k and it's being produce by the same "artistic pinball genius?....because 100 units of RAZA are being made vs. only 25 units of MG. Is MG going to have $7k more worth of toys, NO. That means if the difference between a 100 unit production and a 25 unit production machine is worth $7k, then upping that production number from 25 to 50 should entitle the original 25 to a $2,300 discount. AS ONE OF THE ORIGINAL 25 OWNERS I'VE IMMEDIATELY TAKEN A 14% LOSS IN VALUE TO MY MACHINE EVEN BEFORE THE FIRST ONE LEAVES THE FACTORY.
3. He's gonna need the money to complete them. We should hope he produces hundreds or thousands so there's actually money to get them done. HE OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T NEED THE MONEY.
If as you've said Iceman he hasn't asked for any money from the additional 25 MG owners until the reveal, he clearly doesn't need the money to stay alive, he wants the money to maintain his profit margin at the expense of my 14% loss. Let's also be direct here, and I don't mind saying it because I'm a RAZA owner as well. Zidware is the one single entity (corporation) for MG, RAZA, and AIW. Unfortunately for all, that means from a credit standpoint all the money is commingled as one. So the truth is if he goes over budget on MG then he has to spend RAZA money....which he is...which is the exact reason he doesn't need your MG money yet; He's supporting MG development cost buy dipping into RAZA funds. Sure when it's revealed he'll take your money so his profit is there. When it comes time for RAZA, AIW funds will need to support him if he goes over budget.
With all that said Iceman, I don't fault you for signing up for MG. I know you've paid money towards RAZA and AIW, but when it comes to Magic Girl you're smart, you know you have a free option. If MG looks great at the reveal, then you pony up for a machine you know already looks great and exists, if it sucks or never happens you lose nothing. All reward, no risk. I'd take that option all day long on MG, RAZA, AIW, and the next 100 titles he wants pre-orders for. The problem is the first 25 owners don't have a free option, we've already paid the $17k in full. In finance isn't it supposed to be the initial investors that get rewarded because they've taken the risk and second round investors pay a premium for less uncertainty?

So you are saying you are a little unhappy?

I'm sure he absolutely DOES need the money and I believe he is seeking it with 3rd party financial partners. If he didn't need the money why do you think he went to 50? He loses his ass building 25 pins of anything at 17k, per John himself, he's NOT trying to maintain some profit margin, TIME has destroyed that. Thus, it is now a "live and learn" thing for him. If he has to do 50, which he does, then he is going to do them, he has no choice, like it or not. That said, for me now, with this whole experience turning south, at this point I wouldn't pony up 17k to be one of the 50 and I highly doubt anybody else would be dumb enough either until they see a major update and a definitive schedule.

It's been 39 months since MG and 32 months since RAZA, what do you imagine the "cash burn" is on the operation? It's a catch 22, how can you ramp up production/completion when you can't afford the "cash burn" and you have to do everything yourself.

AIW, I'm not sure, even though I'm stupidly in on the project right now, initially just to support him, how he could or should be spending any time on that one BEFORE the other two pins get made? $$$.

Like you said, without RAZA, you have/had zero chance of ever getting a MG completed with 17k worth of stuff in it much less 1,700. Those dollars are going to help get MG finished, if any of those dollars are left. At this point, it looks like MG and RAZA are a combo deal in terms of ordering parts and getting these done. Btw, where are all the parts, cabs, etc. for 175 pins, or 150 for that matter.

What you are saying in effect is that John is running a Ponzi scheme, RAZA dollars pay for MG and AIW dollars will pay for RAZA, as long a they exist. Maybe so. Thus, as a RAZA owner, I'm not too concerned about a 14% loss for the MG buyer, I just hope you get your pin.

Were you part of the original 13, 17 or did you come in when it got bumped to 25? What's the difference on those bumps? I recall them like it was yesterday, just shows how 3+ years can fly by.

I hope this has a happy ending for all of us! If not, it will be a "live and learn" moment for me.

#610 6 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

This post is directed twards RAZA owners... Drano just posted a pretty strong post on the Blog and I have made a few posts as well. At this point as owners I think the only way we can get anywhere is to stop beating around the bush with John and just post how we really feel..... So if your an owner get on the blog and politely say your peace. That way 3 or 4 owners don't have to do all the heavy lifting and John is more likely to listen.

You and Frolic had some great posts on the blog, Frolic especially. I think people are afraid to say what they really are thinking!

#613 6 years ago
Quoted from Multiball1:

RAZA owners....I know it was very long, but please read my post #602 in it's entirety (or at least bullet point 3 and on) because although the main focus is MG, it shows how serious the risks are for RAZA owners. I'm a RAZA owner as well.

With what I know and think, the risks, after all of this time, are HUGE.

Like I've said before, there will have to be "proof of life" before another $$ from me goes into anything, or don't care what list I'm on. And it's not just some "reveal", but it has to come along with the proven ability and funds to get it done.

It's so clear to me that from a "business standpoint" that he doesn't understand when he says you can get only 2 of 3, PRICE, QUALITY, SPEED. We know SPEED has left the building and to expect it up front is crazy anyhow. However, to survive within Zidware, his own company, SPEED has to be part of the equation, he doesn't work for Bally anymore!!!

It's called CASH BURN.

He gave us a "production timeline" in the original packets. Zero update since, yet he must have thought it was important then?

If he changed the timeline so readily why would anybody think he wouldn't change the quantity? John is obviously a pinball genius, and a business _____ fill in the blank.

I think Hank's offer to sell his spot is the tip of the iceberg.

#617 6 years ago
Quoted from Drano:

My biggest fear is that we have all been collective "patrons of the arts" in a sense.
I have never once had any impression that JPOP was running a proper business. He is the creator, engineer, artist and customer support... such as it is.
I am myself a designer and I still understand the importance of things such as customer service and proper book keeping. I could never create the work I do without them.

That sums it up right there as I've been saying. I run a business, I rely on others to do my marketing and creative work.

If you are like me, it's been LONG ENOUGH, its time for some definitive answers.

I'll say it again, he used a "production timeline" in our original packets to sell us. I want an update and schedule that he holds himself to. Period.

Who's doing the code, how are they getting built, and after all of this time, where is the $$$ coming from. Don't like it, I don't care, send me a check. I don't need a pin that bad.

A great experience is turning into total frustration. Expo set it all off and was the straw that broke my back. I'm now in on TBL, out on TH (and getting a refund check, imagine that) and on the fence with TWD. Also love Alien.

How about that, with ALIEN, they actually have a production schedule! How did that happen?

Well if you click on their webpage you can count 13 employees, I'm sure one of those is a bookkeeper.

As the saying goes, its time to shit or get off the pot. No more eggshell nonsense. NO EXCUSES.

I love the guy and what he's done and is capable of doing but enough is enough.

The whole idea of the NDA at this point is a JOKE, take a look around, other guys are building pins without worrying about what kind of IP he has or doesn't have!

I'll have more comments tomorrow. I just don't think it does any good on the blog, especially if he will control the comments.

If you don't agree with me then feel free to publicly denounce me!

#626 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

A lot of this is a real disaster, and some of it I am really having a hard time comprehending. Seriously, some of the original MG owners weren't even aware of the fact that JPop is increasing the production number on that pin?! That's completely inexcusable.

Then the RAZA artwork. WTF? Is it a zombie pin, or an Alien pin? Or a robot pin? Or a Godzilla pin? How can the main focal point on the backglass be an alien, not a zombie?

Well its time to go ahead and pull the scab off!

What he said leading up to Expo and then what he brought is actually beyond belief. What's even further beyond belief are some of the expo comments he has posted on the blog discussing his huge success.

Two empty cabs and all he can talk about is how perfect his cabs are and the others are garbage.

What happened at Expo overall is a game changer, pinball changing. Too many other great projects going on, people actually getting shit done, to put up with non stop EXCUSES.

Again, 39 months on MG and 32 months on RAZA, WTF! Anybody with any business brain at all knows nobody can double the production time and maintain that CASH BURN and actually survive.

At this point, after Expo, its just turning into a nightmare, I really don't give a shit anymore. Like Hank, I'll take the pin or a check. No more walking on eggshell BS.

#629 6 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

Wow, you really made a 180 here. You have always been the guy defending JPop, and posting to the tune of "When it gets done it gets done. I have no worry about the timeline. " Interesting how the Expo really changed everything.
I was there and I played TWD, WOL, TBL, LL, etc. They were all amazing and drumming up a lot of excitement. (TBL is a work of art...) I went there hoping one of JPop's games would be finished. I think he really missed the boat this time. If he is not done by Expo next year, I think that he will literally be sunk.

Honestly, my patience meter just ran out. You said it, the TBL is a "work of art".

Then we get the whole "translite fiasco". And the "Empty cab gate"

I put money down on TBL today. It's not about the $$$, its about the excitement of being part of something with your friends here and being able to enjoy and discuss the whole thing. That is totally gone now with RAZA and he doesn't get it.

All of my optimism went down the tubes after Expo and then reading what John had to post on the blog.

And like Rob said, while i think the versions of RAZA i have seen look great, its become a cartoon Alien game more so than any zombie related theme.

Nobody has a choice now, we are all stuck, like it or not. I do feel like he won't destroy his 33 year pinball history and ruin his life and reputation by not putting these pins out at some point.

Let me just say this, having a MASSIVE EGO can be a good thing, you gotta believe your great, but when it completely clouds your sense of self awareness to the point where you have no idea what is happening around you, it's NOT a good thing.

#638 6 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

Same here. 100%

Just saw your post, followed up with another one of mine on the blog!

#644 6 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I don't honestly expect the games to ever ship, I'm sorry to say, but I hope I'm wrong.

The pins will get done, he won't ruin his 33 yr reputation in pinball and massive Ego by not delivering.

At this point, I don't really even give a shit, I'm excited about TBL, Alien and maybe TWD, the true zombie pin.

Yeah Chris, mob, intervention, I don't know what it is, just complete and utter frustration on our end.

I've said it from day one, if I lose my money it was a risk worth taking. Onward and upward.

My guess, and I hope not, is that John will first act like a petulant child and not respond at all.

#683 6 years ago

In the light of day, and after popping my blood pressure pill, thinking I might feel differently….I DON'T

I'm not sure really how to even put all this in context or succinctly?

I guess the bottom line is just simply do what you say your are going to do! The excuses, delays, secrecy nonsense etc…What a freaking LETDOWN expo was.

I have been a HUGE Jpop supporter and cheerleader for the 39 months with MG and 32 months with RAZA, can anybody dispute that?

The tipping point came with Expo, he didn't do what he said he was going to do. How did that work out for Jack and the Smaug toy? Honesty and integrity needs to go along with "perfection".

Then I read his post expo comments on the blog and my head explodes!!! I won't post those yet out of respect but it really shows the entire disconnect and where this thing is heading. He was essentially saying "No junk here" in reference to the other guys cabs!

IF he had the $$$, waiting line and financial supporters he would easily take out all of the people that are dissatisfied.

HE CAN'T, there is no money to build MG, he needs another 25 buyers at least to get it done. How is RAZA gonna get built, with AIW.

If there is $$$, just send us a check?

Honestly, I don't need the "courtesy blog", I'd prefer just to know a schedule, update when its gonna get done and tell me when to pay based on milestones achieved.

When you look at Heighway and their website, 13 employees in the picture gives you the warm and fuzzy feeling. Count me in for Alien. I get their model and game plan after one weekend.

When you see Dutch Pinball show up at Expo with an awesome looking pin and then ask money, count me in.

Jack didn't deliver on what he said with Smaug, and Stern is trying again to ship TWD LE with no code or even one for display at Expo.

Thankfully, Expo has delivered options and more importantly CHANGE!

Here is hoping John can get it turned around, as we are all "stuck" in his projects. At the end of the day, I see JJP or somebody else completing these projects with John wrapping up the design. Mark it down. I see no investors coming in to bail him out.

Maybe the Shark Tank would give him pennies on the dollar!

#684 6 years ago

Btw, copyright law and breach thereof is the LEAST of his problems. We know he has great art options and can get around that.

#687 6 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Can't wait to see the blog, hope it's not deleted before I see it, if so hope you save a copy of what you wrote.
Will add my 2c this afternoon

I have it all saved via copy and email.

#691 6 years ago
Quoted from gearheaddropping:

I love his stuff, but it seems like a financial manager might want to reign him in a bit.

Ya think!

I forgot about the KISS mock up. I didn't say what others said and/or thought.

WHY? How can you even waste 10 minutes on a license you don't even have and need to get three other pins done?

I'm not sure what his agenda really is? Seriously. Maybe he thought big money investors were gonna roll in a save the day?

#800 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Well, to be fair, there was a deadline. It was in the owner's package when I signed up. Q4 2013 for RAZA. Actually John re-affirmed that deadline when my wife visited his studio spring 2013.
So we've been "Jersey Jacked" already, but with never having an update again.

Totally agree, I would just appreciate if John sets a schedule for himself like he did in the beginning with the timeline that he used to SELL us.

And try and hold himself accountable to that schedule. And then give detailed explanations and honesty for why there are delays and a continued update of the schedule for all owners to see.

With all these pins coming out he owes it to the owners to let us know a "when ish" timeframe so WE, the owners, can plan accordingly. We don't expect "perfection", just communication.

Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

And actually the more I get “put to the fire” from owners the harder I want to work and not let anyone down. This is my 33rd year in pinball after starting at Bally in 1981, and creating Zidware, named after my kids, and making these custom games have been the hardest thing I have done and most rewarding.

This is what I want to hear, when you get "put to the fire" come out swinging because you do care so much, don't want to ruin that 33 yr history and especially, have the desire to "NOT LET ANYONE DOWN".

I'd say get focused and go make it happen! Forget AIW for now or anything else that gets in the way of completing MG and RAZA. Then move on to the next game.

#830 6 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

I will agree as well. I haven't had time to go though my owners blog emails yet, but when I woke up this morning and saw 25 new messages and posts from the blog overnight I got the impression that our concerns were received. PDX's post above with the MG playfield pic seems to be a show good will from John as well. If things can stay on this course I think we'll all be happy in the coming months.
Big thanks to all the owners for voicing concerns and keeping it civil, and huge kudos to JPOP for stepping up.

I think the concerns were delivered loud and clear. It's just NOT personal, John is a great guy that in my opinion, and others, needed a come to jesus (TBL) kick in the ass.

Afterwards, we can all get on the same page and hug it out! I love the PASSION!

And if somebody wants out they shouldn't have to feel locked in. I'm in but others may still want to go.

#831 6 years ago

So on the hypothetical "LLC" issue. I probably set up a dozen or so a month for small business owners.

What goes along with that is about an 8 page Memorandum on "How to operate an LLC"

The key to asset protection is following the corporate formalities. Do most people? Some do, many don't. Has John? Too busy? Piercing the corporate veil may not be that difficult if you don't follow the rules such as annual meetings and NOT paying personal expenses out of your corp account, etc.

If you do things properly, in Texas, all a lawsuit is going to get you is what's called a "charging order" against the person's ownership %. The right to receive the profits and losses of the partnership or sole proprietorship usually.

Why don't I as a creditor want a "charging order"? Because the owner can choose to NOT make profit payments out of the business and retain them inside of the LLC. Guess what, the creditor then gets the K-1, has to pay the income tax on those profits and the creditor never even received a dime to pay them! Used properly, it is a GREAT asset protection tool.

Realistically, nobody should be suing anybody. Most of the time its only the lawyers that win.

All that said, onward and upward guys!

#844 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

This was done in the original packet/contract, and those dates obviously no longer apply. Get a new schedule from JPop. He's almost 3 years in, he should be able to give a much more accurate schedule at this point. This would help keep his feet to the fire, knowing that he has to have certain things accomplished by a certain point.

Agree 1000% and been saying it over and over. A schedule right now is very MEANINGFUL.

Sure, initially, who could know the hurdles.

However, isn't it better to have a timeline and adjust it as things change rather than letting people simply fill in the gaps themselves after all this time! We've just seen the outcome of that fiasco.

I could care less about actually seeing anything anymore, a living breathing timeline is all we need.

Honestly, one of the reasons I jumped in on RAZA early on is the fact that John had a schedule and appeared to have his shit together.

For me and many others, I think John realizes there is no more "buying silence" and that things have to change. We'll see.

#896 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I run my own biz, it does well, it gives me money for things like pinball. If I ran my business like this I would be OUT of business, so yeah, I'm going to be critical.

Likewise, and the bottom line PDX is that we shouldn't have to fly over to Chicago to see John just to try and piece together what is going on.

Since you did, can you answer the questions posed above for us?

As far as the NDA and patents go, I've told John from day one, secrecy and obtaining patents for your hard work is one thing, enforcing them is another! This isn't Apple!

If John had to attempt to try and enforce a patent he would be out of business in a matter of time due to 1) the cost of enforcement with litigation and court costs and 2) actually trying to quantify the damages that would actually make a material difference!

#897 6 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

while TBL guys are drinking Caucasians, less then 2 years after concept.

Are you saying as a TBL guy I'm a drunk white boy?

#905 6 years ago

For me it was a combo of TBL killing it and the perception of the empty cabs with John and then the Smaug disaster.

I bought TBL as a result. That is how you market and do business. WAKE UP CALL for pin makers and us buyers! A great thing

#909 6 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

It appears this thread might have caught the attention of Coast2Coast pinball. listening to episode 117 "Atomic Madness" that just went up.

Just listened to it as well. Pretty good summary and analysis.

#910 6 years ago
Quoted from Honch:

That's how they almost got me to spend so of my moldy money, almost.

Open your wallet and knock off the dust Honch! Come on....

#912 6 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

U know, UL testing hasn't even happened yet. That's another bunch of time when he finished a working prototype. Send the game off for testing is big money and more time.

See JJP and PPS..........

Here's an idea: John meet Jack, Jack meet John. John: "I hear you jettisoned your designer Balcer last year. I have pins, need production"

#915 6 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Ice that idea just made me do this......
» YouTube video

That's hilarious Sean, it'll never happen because it makes too much sense!

#936 6 years ago

Happy to report John gets "the Lebowski effect" as he calls it on the blog

He's announced new team members and brought on a much needed "project manager" to help him organize production, timelines, etc

MG "on a rug" reveal in Dec. Good to know he still has a sense of humor after the beating he took. And then RAZA shortly thereafter.

Here is hoping he can create the "Jpop effect"

Yes I will be paying RD for a case of beer!

2015 is gonna be a great pin yr

#954 6 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I'm a buyer and I know nothing! ...... probably my fault

Ok Sgt. Schultz! Get on the blog Bill

#956 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

By creating the insular secret club cult bubble to "reward" pre-buyers, he made himself look bad & alienated the rest of the pinball community - and we are POSSIBLE buyers.

Let's get real here Greg. Nobody every stays "alienated". Look at Stern.

If you see a pin you like from Jpop you'll buy it, just like you did with TBL, IF it ever gets made

Quoted from dmesserly:

Give it a rest, will ya? He doesn't owe anyone except his customers anything.

Seeing that Bill aka Wcbrandes is in on all 3 of jpop's I think you misunderstood

#960 6 years ago
Quoted from dmesserly:

Yeah, I missed the later comment that he was an owner. That's why I deleted my post. You're too quick!
My comment still stands for anyone who thinks ajpop owes them any info if they aren't a customer. Right or wrong, it's the way he chooses to run his business.

The point being is he is in the process of changing the way he runs his business. You are certainly right, he can run it anyway he wants to. But after Expo I think he has found a better way forward imo!

Things will loosen up a whole lot once MG hits "the rug" with the big reveal.

#991 6 years ago

I'm glad he didn't get it, one less thing for him to worry about! Focus

#993 6 years ago

When/IF Jpop gets the train rolling down the tracks, after building his patented cabs and having re done a lot of the engineering that doesn't have to be duplicated in the future, he could end up being the most desired pinball creator for the future......

AIW is gonna be sick, #4, #5, #6, what's next? It will be like creating a Leroy Neiman piece of artwork I think.......

Assuming he puts an engine in the train

#999 6 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

However, drinking your beer will elicit pleasure.

Hmmmmmm an ethical quandary!

And how will we get a case of Modelo from Texas to Auckland? Logistics!

Or the local supermarket is doing 24 Coronas for $42 NZD ....

Ohhhh I wish we had a Walmart with $9 Dozens ... But hey, we don't ...

Take your pick RD, Can't believe they even have Coronas there! I'll paypal you the $$$, it was worth the fun and I figure you probably need some extra cold and chilly's after your epic US adventure

#1000 6 years ago

And I just noticed, wanted to pop in #1000 on this thread, it feels like a #10000 post journey so far!

#1028 6 years ago

I think my suggestion/prediction is going to come true!

Jpop is going to team up on a joint venture basis with JJP. It's a marriage made in heaven. He can help them obviously and John certainly needs the "outside muscle"!

Stay tuned.

#1038 6 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Hope not, because then I'll absolutely not buy his product regardless of what it is.


And with respect to MG, so it's ok for #18-21, and later #22-26?

Where do you draw the line? Initially it was 13.

So when he does do 40-50 I guess the early guys would get something in return or simply the return of their funds. Because like it or not, it's happening

#1041 6 years ago

Well who does respect the pinball community?

If I want my Jpop pin sooner, and I do, then I want JJP to build it. Jpop respects them

It's still Jpop and his pin. But I agree, the arrogance, stupidity, etc is astounding at times. But it's in no way limited to JJP

#1051 6 years ago

I don't want to make this about JJP or Stern but seriously, Gary doesn't even read the internet and they certainly aren't the Saints of Pinball or pillars of truth

I like Jpop better than all of them. As/if he lines up outside help, hopefully things will come together.

Let's see in two weeks

#1057 6 years ago
Quoted from marlboroman:

Logistically... Stern makes more sense.

My guess is Stern would not want to help Jpop and John has been pretty critical of Stern pinball so I'm doubtful that's even an option.

Quoted from Baiter:

He should completely stop work on RAZA and AIW until MG is delivered. Does he owe RAZA and AIW pre-orders a timeline? Probably, but his track record on timelines is not good, so delivery of anything is worth more than any timeline he can come up with.

I totally agree with this, and I've been in RAZA the longest.

Quoted from Baiter:

The other item that no one mentions is the code. It's obviously a substantial amount of work as we've seen from every game delivered in the past x number of years, and it becomes the key make-or-break feature of a game. Does Jpop have a good handle on that?

He indicates that there are a couple of very talented "coders" that are part of these projects. The positive thing is that I would guess John would want to overcome his reputation, which he didn't fully control at Bally, the idea that the code on his games isn't very good. Which isn't true. Maybe Totan, certainly not CV and TOM. WCS, haven't really played it enough to know.

Time will tell, and judgment day is closing in rapidly.

#1062 6 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

Id love to see a fully playable magic girl.

Apparently we all will in Dec., rug and all, and from what I've seen, the little of it, and also heard about, it's beyond WOW, way beyond!

2 weeks later
#1096 6 years ago

All Quiet on the front lines. Thinking no news is good news. Partner deal in works?

#1102 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Aliens and saucers are secondary to the Zombie theme in the flyer. Quite contrary to the side cab art.

I don't know if he took it more in that direction because of Spooky or not or just that's where his creative brain went but IF the ideas and art ever make it into a pinball machine it's gonna be great!

John values his "33 year pinball" history greatly and I know he'll die trying. He will get it done.

#1109 6 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Ice old mate, you'd have to be the most optimistic dude Ive ever met!
Wishing the best for December ... But not holding my breath.

RD, are you talking about next December? haha

I would say I'm a glass half full kind of guy but I usually drain every last drop

Two more xmas's, next December? So you're saying there's a chance!

#1111 6 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Do I smell another Ice-RD wager coming up? Hmmmmmm
I already polished off my last winnings. In fact they only lasted 2 days.

Yeah we will come up with another wager of some sort! 2 days, that would be about right for me too.

#1113 6 years ago

“We leave (mods) for you to think up , and then you can ask us to do them,” he says. “If you want your wife’s face in the machine, we can do it for you.”

I nearly spit out my drink on my laptop when I read this quote from the Pavlov article on pinball and John's comment.

Uhhh, hell no I don't want my wife's face on my pinball machine! I love her and my three girls but pinball is my "man cave time". I'll take Kate Upton's face, along with her rack on my pin though, actually, I might have John "mod that" for me like he says he can.

#1130 6 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

This is a public forum, and I'm calling out bullshit behavior. Also, I know a couple of people personally who are being jerked around in this whole thing that have invested a significant amount of money with zero real results, and it pisses me off that my friends are getting hosed.

Well what are you gonna do about it? Just life in the big city

We are just on the slow boat to China

#1132 6 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

So since it doesn't effect me directly I should just shut up about it?

No, keep ramping up the rhetoric, what else are you going to do about it? We have put plenty of "heat" on John.

Fyi, if you don't have this "pre pay thing" you don't have other pinball options.

It's your choice, nobody has a gun to your head, pre pay, or not. If not, it is guaranteed to not get made.

If people want to take the risk, that's their choice. If they took the risk up front then its suck it up time. Bitch, moan, complain, what else are you going to do?

#1136 6 years ago

Nobody is saying "shut up". Whine about it all u want if it makes u feel better. It is what it is.

#1140 6 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Nice update on the blog today Ice, check it out if you havnt already.

Holy crap! WOW, I freaking love it!

Quoted from lllvjr:

Easy men... Points well taken. Lets not kill each other... How's Christmas looking with the updated u customers have seen this month?

Anybody that has been thinking about getting in now, after all of this time, should jump in and take one of those spots that are up for sale if they are still available. Yes it will be a year before its shipped.

When it gets finished (insert timeline jokes here!) it's going to be amazing.

You can actually see part of the MG cab in one of the updated pics. Holy crap! I can thank Apple for paying for that one, and all the others for that matter!

#1142 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

John can run things any way he wants... IF he were giving refunds to anyone who asked for any reason. If the journey isn't the reward for them and they're tired of it, then let them out.
Because there are multiple people we know of that can't get out, then this model is broken. The NDA's have been VERY effective of snuffing out information for the greater pinball community and killing enthusiasm for the game, so much so there is no apparent waiting list anymore.
At the same time, John is not confident enough in the NDAs to show the owners anything that HASN'T been patented (yet) and very little of the game.
I asked again last week on the blog what YEAR I might see the game. No response. There was a blog post this week of the white wood build, but that tells me nothing of how much is left to do, where we are and what timeline we're looking at.

I think people need to make their own judgments on what they see and where its going from here. The fact is, that John can't afford to not get these pins out sooner than later. Based on what I've seen recently and what I think we will see in December, I have no problem with where things are currently at, especially with different partner discussions.

I think we will get a "timeline" on Raza with the new guy he hired if we can be a little more patient, by the end of the year.

We all know how fickle pinheads are, when people get a look at that MG, I predict a huge renewed interest in Jpop pins! If not, who cares, I'm just glad I'm on the list.

#1146 6 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Yep! That's mine.
Within 2 weeks now...

Congrats Jim, the wait will be well worth it!

#1148 6 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

I'm glad all 17-50+ people will be happy. For the rest of us I'm not even sure it matters for such a small run... I'd like it to matter, but in the end it's just too few.

125 for RAZA? I think anything that advances pinball, like what Jpop is trying to do "matters", a lot.

AIW could be 250 or whatever the demand is. John is trying to start somewhere, just because we all don't own every pin I think it certainly matters on a lot of levels.

#1156 6 years ago

He "wears a jock and flame proof underwear to work"

#1159 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Well, this is exactly what I'm talking about... I've been asking what YEAR i might see my game and a timetable. Abd the reality of building 100+ machines outside of a factory environment. So, what, 2017 when I get my game then? It said Q4 2013 in my owner's package and never an update since then. This is shitty.
John has provided no other info or answers. I have to guess that this is the timeline then.

Yep, it appears 2016 looks like the current timetable for Raza. Way ahead of a lot of people's guestimates

Maybe a new "muscle" partner will alter that timeline.

This ought to cause quite the shitshow tonight.

#1164 6 years ago

"John is making Kevin (Skit-B) look good and that takes a lot of doing."

Haha, yep in some ways I suppose so but as bad as it is I still wouldn't want to be in Predator land.

#1169 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

I'm so frustrated with this whole situation. I have more of a stomach for pre-orders than almost anyone, but this situation is just starting to piss me off. 2016?

I'm at the point where I'm basically considering my payment lost money and if the game ever gets made, I'll consider it a windfall.

Between this and finding out BoP 2.0 is shipping with really incomplete code has been a double kick in the ass this week!

And BoP 2.0 is coming from Dutch Pinball right?

The thing that is the most aggravating of all, Frolic said it above and I've said it a thousand times, when you use a Timeline in our original packets to sell everybody, yes I know there are unforeseen difficulties, but that timeline indicated we would have DELIVERY of our pins by Q4 of 2013 and it won't be now until some time in 2016, with no real timeline status updates along the way!

That is truly amazing my friends. Then you have a guy like SkitB build a following and 250 orders on Pinside, communicate as a pinhead himself, only to go into hiding like he's Osama Bin Laden.

Stern, well, no commentary needed there. Jack and JJP, at least it seems they are trying to fix issues and communicate.

I swear I've never seen anything like it. Pinball people have the greatest lack of self awareness that I've ever seen.

#1172 6 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Says the dude with 25 preorders.
Sorry Ice, couldn't resisit!!
Still keen on that Xmas 2015 bet?

I'll let you know in a month RD Yeah I know, I'm the pre order king, although I did actually drop TH

#1194 6 years ago

My biggest concern for John, knowing what any investor would want in return, is whether or not there is any chicken left on the bone to give away. Not sure how he is going to reconcile all that.

I'm afraid, after all these "partner discussions", that he could be right back where he started, which may not end up being a bad thing, and just realize that he has to step on the gas and get these pins done.

#1198 6 years ago

John needs to cut a deal with JJP. They need a designer and he needs production.

Ok problem solved! Happy times

#1213 6 years ago

Sad Sack

Quoted from lllvjr:

I want him to finish but man the time frame is crazy now.

We are all painfully aware of that!

#1226 6 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Let's hope.
Did he actually say this January?

Yes he actually did say this, and MG is supposedly 95% done.

Frolic, you don't need John to tell you what the new timeline is, just set your expectations for 2016 sometime and if he works out a production partner it might be sooner. Simple as that.

#1230 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I don't accept that. I've got the schedule sitting on my desk of the project I paid to get in on. The answer is rip it up, forget about it, and maybe a machine shows up years from now?
Probably time for me to go... if refunds were available.

Option B is what? Maybe you can actually get a refund if you call him and sign a NDA of such a deal.

#1232 6 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Well, John could at least be forthcoming and answer my and others' questions.
As a businessperson myself, I can't think of any other business or industry where this type of behavior towards your customers would be acceptable. That is what really gets my goat.
If I entered this as literally an "Artist's Patron", well, then that is the situation and I'm throwing my money away to create art. But that isn't what was pitched, I came in to buy a game promised for delivery a year ago, presented with a time table created by someone who's been in the business for decades.

I think the answers to OUR questions are pretty clear, Raza isn't coming until 2016 at the earliest.

No way to change what has happened to date. I would assume that the new guy that he has hired is coming up with a new "timeline" for all of us, and we are just going to have to wait until probably the January reveal for that.

By the time MG gets revealed in December I'm sure you will have plenty of opportunity to sell your spot. I don't like the situation either but MG is right around the corner and the "first week of January" is not that far off.

If you can't wait, then pick up the phone and call John and ask your questions directly. And report back what he says.

#1248 6 years ago

John REALLY needs to add some "muscle" as he says to propel these projects.

As for the lack of a reply re the request for a refund, I'll just simply never understand why that happens, the overall lack of communication, not with just John, and how damaging it is.

#1258 6 years ago

Hookers, blow and Shasta! Ahhh yes, it's good to be able to laugh at the situation sometimes

#1263 6 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Raza is so far off from build, mg I wouldn't be surprised to see 2-3 full proto next month... But what the build time after that will be is the next issue... The last issue is who does the warranty work lol

Who does the warranty work for a 20k BBB?

#1267 6 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Who DID the warranty work for gene? that's a good question as I wasn't in on that game back then... Any original bbb owners want to chime in how gene handled warranty work the first year after he shipped games... O ya that's right that game design was already done with a tried and tested existing board system, not started from the ground up with all new systems that are untested.!!

Tried and true huh? Why does Stern have so many QC issues with every release. Last thing I'm worried about is the "boards" or the "system". If and when we get the pins Jpop will be viable. If we don't warranty won't matter, now will it

Which Jpop pin are you in on?

#1269 6 years ago

A piece of one. How does that work? Well I'm in for MG too without the risk so im looking forward to it

#1272 6 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Spilt the cost of a game with someone. Piece of it!
Glad ur on mg... Feel bad for raza guys

I'm on RAZA too. Def could be a bag holder but I don't think so. I actually think John is going to make it. May be wishful thinking but we will see

#1275 6 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

I do not want to get a lawyer involved, but I think many of us are so frustrated that it may become a reality and then John is really going to have a headache.

As a lawyer, "getting a lawyer" is a bad idea, you may win the battle but you will lose the war and throw good money after bad. The legal retainer alone will be prohibitive for the $6500 in damages you would be looking to recover, plus a low interest rate.

I think your best bet is to hang in there until MG is revealed and then get somebody to pick up your RAZA spot.

In some respects, I feel like the patents John is getting will be worthless as well from a practical standpoint other than used as a deterrent. If you have to enforce a patent as a small business owner you lose, especially when you would have a hard time quantifying the damages over the use of a particular part or design. Cease and desist, sure, but so what.

#1279 6 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

After 30 days you can decide where and how to sue. Just think how an endless series of depositions could delay any limited progress that might otherwise may have been made. One difficult "pre-buyer" could really reduce the chances that anyone get a game.

You are obviously clueless Sack Good lord

#1281 6 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

So how do we convey to Jpop that we are not happy and expect our questions to be answered including the major one of who is going to produce the game and whom is going to do the coding? To my knowledge John is not a coder

Just my thinking here but......

I know John is working on getting a partner to help with the production, big question

We will get to see a MG release in a few weeks, should be a huge boost

Plus, John said we will get a big RAZA reveal the first two week in January

The coding is being done by some "new talent", that issue has never changed

At this point, it makes sense to wait until "RAZA reveal", I'm sure you will be able to get out then if you still want to.

We have waited this long, another month and 1/2 and we will know a timeline and direction.

#1291 6 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

I definitely want my RAZA, but I also want to be confident its going to get made and we are not going to be out $$$. The wait is also killing me. Is anyone fine giving someone $6500 and waiting 4 or more years?
That's where I may bail. I want to know all of the information and make an informed decision on whether to keep our sell. Currently, none of us can find a buyer and if we want to get out and John is not responding to buy back request.

I agree with you, I'm saying just wait another month or two to for John to set a timeline and get some major reveal going.

Then you get the excitement going again and when people see MG they are going to want in and you'll have a better chance of getting out of RAZA.

And no, I wouldn't give him another dime either....right now But i'm ok with losing what I have into it also, although I highly doubt that happens.

#1293 6 years ago

Yep, in any business venture, the last guys in line could get stuck holding the bag.

That's just the way it is. I agree, MG is a given.

#1296 6 years ago