(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..

By iceman44

5 years ago

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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (2 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (2 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (2 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (2 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (2 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (2 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#413 5 years ago

Yes, dig the blue alien chick much more than the obvious Attack from Mars similarities..
Nice to have hand drawn art, but am I the only one that doesn't think the BG is way too pink, very busy and actually ugly? (I can't stand the artwork on CV BTW.. mainly because of the similar intense color scheme)...

Quoted from toyotaboy:

so ben heck's likeness is replaced by Attack from Mars? fitting since he owns one, but I liked it before (even if he's not involved).

"Mars Attacks" is the title you're all really thinking about, a brand of collectable cards which eventually became a Tim Burton movie. The pin "Attack from" is not related.

#414 5 years ago

I love this side art

#730 5 years ago
Quoted from cyber:

About two month ago, when I was in England, I bumped into the guy whose name used to be on the zombie game. I talked to him about pinball machines in general and his collaboration with JPOP. He said it was a pleasure to work with him and he really enjoyed it. As this guy is a freelancer he started working also for another pinball manufacturer and he said because of that JPOP ended the collaboration.
If I look at all the video this guy posted (live sessions with him and JPOP building cardboard playfields and mechs) the project went along very well. After they split not much happened anymore ...at least not in public.
I think JPOP is a brilliant mind which has great ideas and good designs but he needs people to assist him in implementing his ideas to material. He needs someone besides him to push him to get forward and stop him from fiddling around with small details which does not help to get a finished product put together.
The guy I talked to said he really hopes there will be something coming from JPOP ...but he's not very confident right now (status 2 months ago).
I think JPOP really needs help. Someone who manages him maybe?.
He does not have the WMS people around him which helped him to end a project.
However, I still hope I will ever see one of his projects in real. Everything which came from him was special ...and I liked it a lot. Let's hope there will be more special stuff to come from him.
And of what I read here he may realize that he needs assistance. And maybe he will get back to the other guy I talked to to ask for help? Well... we will see! Good luck John!
Post edited by cyber: there were some typos ...maybe there are still some left

So two months ago, Ben Heck (ex-business partner and ex-technician of Zidware) was not confident about John's chances?!

My condolences to everyone who paid.

#748 5 years ago

With Ben Heck gone, John is done. Ben was the lead tech at Zidware.

And what are the main toys for MG and RAZA? Does John even have the technical knowledge to materialize them?

#750 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

My buddy told me that there is two magna flippers in MG...so there's that.

Sounds good, which means there's a whitewood. But I wonder if that was developed while Ben was involved...

#751 5 years ago
Quoted from cyber:

The guy I talked to [Ben Heck] said he really hopes there will be something coming from JPOP ...but he's not very confident right now (status 2 months ago).

Okay guys, pay very attention to this quote because it's the most revealing. Ben Heck was very important at Zidware, so for him to even state that to someone is quite astonishing.

#759 5 years ago

@ Ben

It's good you're here to clear things up a bit. But what about the following quote?

Quoted from cyber:

If I look at all the video this guy posted (live sessions with him and JPOP building cardboard playfields and mechs) the project went along very well. After they split not much happened anymore ...at least not in public.

We can all agree that things have slowed down, so that quote got me thinking that you were helping John with the technical aspects. Not in a million years would I have thought that you were the kind of celebrity that gets his image licensed.

#764 5 years ago

If John hides everything, we try to fill the blanks ourselves. There's just no clarity here.

And this is a public forum, and we should all voice an opinion about this scandal. If you feel I'm being hyperbolic, just wait and see. You haven't seen anything yet. I've witnessed many companies going under over the years, the victims (the employees) would work without pay and give excuses. Some would voice concerns only to be met with "just wait and see", naively believing that the brick wall will show itself gradually. It might start that way, but it doesn't even ramp up, it hits you instantly with a bankruptcy statement.

Zidware is showing all the signs. The more people ask for answers, the more silent the boss is when he should instead do the opposite. This is a man who has been badgered by many clients for months and he still had the temerity to bring empty cabs.

Whatever answer you're all waiting for from John, it won't be satisfying. He'll be kicking the can down the road for as long as he can because he himself is in denial. Then reality sets in with that brick wall: no more money

I really hope I'm wrong here. But my cynicism comes from experience in the entertainment industry, where artistic leaning people sometimes call the shots, with the same predictable results.

#766 5 years ago

You mean "statute", not "statue".

#768 5 years ago


"Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with them."

#773 5 years ago

He explained himself very well. I hope the best for everyone involved.

The following quote was very honest of him:

"Also (sorry to ramble) this has definitely taken a lot longer then I ever planned, but i did not know what I did not know, and can’t go back. The first year of starting actually was planning and not really accomplishing much. So most of the work now was done in the last 1.5-2 years which I am amazed at."

What took so long for him to write this? I guess his competitors are such sharks that they got him all paranoid.

Pinball unfortunately is a “cut-throat” business for those behind the curtain. I have been threatened, stolen from and otherwise been hindered at many junctures from others in the business. My lawyer and I are amazed.


#871 5 years ago

John knows all about the idea of marking your ideas in public. In the interview linked below, John explains why he announced AiW as early as he did. To paraphrase: it was to mark it to the other designers that the idea is taken.


So I'm thinking that there are more important reasons as to why he's so secretive. The simplest explanation is usually the right one, and that he just keeps changing and tweaking to such a high degree that he doesn't want to officialize what he might insecurely feel sucks. He showed the translite art for a second and quickly hid it from sight, and that wasn't because he feared someone will steal the style. This is John, he's insecure about his work just like Kubrick was. This is well known about perfectionists, they quickly feel ashamed when they come out with a better idea in their heads, no matter how petty the issue might be.

He won't change.

#874 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Great info! now can you explain what compels a person to analyze another person over and over again on a pinball forum? What type of personality disorder is that?
image-905.jpg 1 KB

It's called Pinsideritis.

#881 5 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Couldnt you read the jpop TBL line though as "don't show it till you've got real product" which is more of the same ? I.e., shouldn't of even shown the cabinets / translite? Wondering if there would be more/less outrage if he had done nothing this year at expo?

The image that was created by those empty cabs just symbolized vaporware. It was a bad marketing move. If he never went to expo, buyers would not have worried as much as they did.

#919 5 years ago

Not to be such a skeptic... but does the blog post by Jpop really change anything?
I mean yeah.. he admitted being shamed by all the new "real" product and he basically needs to get his act together.. but an apology? an empty promise?
After this many years.. shouldn't buyers expect a more concrete/affirmative change in direction (Jpop has a epiphany) and immediately asks a professional to get his concept /parts out of the door... ala Stern?

He never brought up the money situation. So the question still remains: does he have the money to produce these three games?

And why is he even working on two games at once? Who does that?

#929 5 years ago

I wish I had enough money. MG is just too rich for my blood.

$16k right?

#1067 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Your right I would feel like a douchebag if I had my money tied up for 3 years and all of the sudden my limited production pin isn't limited any more and anyone can order one, no money down no waiting...
But wait! I get a key chain or a numbered plaque for my 3 year interest free loan? Your right who wouldn't want that deal. The risk to putting your money out years in advance was that you could lose it all and get nothing, the reward is that if all went well your would receive a truly limited machine not some mass produced machine.
So I will turn the douchebag comment back on you, if you want to "enjoy one of these cool new games" then stop blathering about it! get your wallet out and buy someone's preorder.

Sorry if we're not as rich as you.

Quoted from iceman44:

and from what I've seen, the little of it, and also heard about, it's beyond WOW, way beyond!

Why do you torture me so?

1 month later
#2536 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

The burn is the things we're asking for (updated timetable, production estimates, etc) are not "trade secrets", we're not asking for him to demo some innovative toy that he's worried will get ripped off.

Quoted from TigerLaw:

I think the one thing people don't want to see is more art posted. They want a timetable and project budget update for game number one.

From everything I've seen from his process, he probably doesn't even know himself. Or worst case scenario, he doesn't want to scare people with the truth.

2 weeks later
#2905 5 years ago

This game isn't an Oculus Rift VR Skyrim kind of thing. If buyers finally get their games, the negative experience this has already generated inside the mind will prevent them from enjoying what is, at the end of the day, just a simple game of pinball.

The only thing positive here is its rarity which might bring the value up to $35k, but like frolic said, from the lightboard issues of JJP and all the other problems that custom made parts will create for the owner, these things might become lemons, and their value can drop like a stone. Or they might get remade by the company that buys the rights when Zidware goes belly up.

So if you're doing this, it should be for the fun of playing, not as an investment,
which brings me back to what I stated in my first paragraph.

#3125 5 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

This seems relevant...
STEVE: Oh, World Cup. World Cup was taken over.
MARK: It wasn’t a bad pin, it’s still all right, actually we still operate it.
STEVE: In the end it turned out to be pretty Ok, but in the beginning it was handled by a newbie. The game designer was a stubborn newbie, and it had to be taken over by someone else.
MARK: Did this happen very often?
STEVE: Actually it never happened before unless somebody died or got sick.
MARK: Did he abandon the project or did he just get the sack?
STEVE: Neither. He cooperated, learned and latter did Theatre of Magic and some other really good work. But when he first came in he thought he just knew everything about making pinballs and it is just not that kind of thing. You have to live it for a long time, you must have an affinity for mechanicals and you have to be able to work with other people.
MARK: Working with others is essential, unless you are a going it alone.
STEVE: No one could make a great pinball alone. The closest I’ve seen is Brian Eddy on Shadow, I think. I believe he drew the game and then programmed it. It was quite a feat, but he had to learn about mechanicals on that game. It was tough, but I will always admire him for doing that.

"The game designer was a stubborn newbie, and it had to be taken over by someone else."
[seems like nothing has changed]

"you must have an affinity for mechanicals"
[translation: John was too much about the art and forgot about the rest, yup nothing has changed]

2 weeks later
#3621 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

» YouTube video

That South Park video sums up JPOP's business plan very well.

2 weeks later
#3995 4 years ago
Quoted from retro_p:

Just shocked by all the negativity... we've seen pictures of 3 full prototypes sitting in a row, tons of gorgeous art, and indications that he's been working on a production path. I think these are going to be amazing games. Sorry for playing negativity police, but it gets a little old.

You're shocked?

4 weeks later
#4852 4 years ago

So he lied about making a deal with Fast and Mission last october, and states at the same time "Lying to customers is not the way I work, to make them go away for a while".

Like wow.

How can iceman be sure that John told him the truth over the phone? It's possible that he's getting j-popped aswell.

Will the bank account get an audit? Can ice get that done even if John changes his mind and fights it. Using the legal process doesn't always mean scorched earth, it could also be about a basic audit.

Knowing how much money John has left should be the first step.

I also remember ice saying something to the effect that everyone must finish their payments for the games to get done. Is this why John doesn't refund?

#4958 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If John can't get it done himself then it goes to a plan B handoff.

Do you mean using the legal process to take MG and RAZA away from him?

#4968 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There's Option A, and then there is Option B. Can it be any clearer?
Two options are better than One, especially when the second one involves the FAST team.
And I believe, its a unanimous feeling across all the owners.

And you forgot about the third option: buyers wanting their money back. Will you aid in this aswell? Or is your goal to make sure that there is no run on the banks? Because when you write "unanimous feeling across all the owners" you seem to ignore those who are trying to get their refund (just like John has done).

Some buyers have remorse because of the price, some just don't like the idea of playing a game that reminds them of this whole ordeal and just want out. Will you help this group get their refund?

You seem pretty adamant about getting these games out, no matter what, but what if the refunds create a run on the banks? Will you tell everyone here the truth? Because you seem to be pretty machiavellian right now.

You write of "brutal honesty" but only towards John in private. I hope that you will extend that style of honesty to those here who are thinking of buying or cancelling.

#4971 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

best thing for refunds is to get the game playable and get new buyers lined up. So ice's plan will help.

So you're assuming that Zidware doesn't have enough money to refund those who want out now? New buyers are needed?

#5083 4 years ago

After the expo fiasco with the empty cabinets, he wrote a letter to everyone and mentioned his difficulties concerning "others in the business".

I once theorized that it might be Stern playing hardball, but I now see that Popaduik has a bad reputation which spread through word of mouth, and that he is too delusional to see that he is his own worst enemy.

And I quote him (from last October):

"Pinball unfortunately is a “cut-throat” business for those behind the curtain. I have been threatened, stolen from and otherwise been hindered at many junctures from others in the business. My lawyer and I are amazed."

#5104 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

To be clear I wasn't saying "welp, the rich people can afford it, lol!"
I just meant that John's vision was always a bit pie in the sky. Very few people could make the pitch he was and get away with it.
Skit-B though kind of represented "obtainable" pinball. The whole homebrew, anyone could do this if they just try thing. Not crazy expensive, and a bit of a model that seemed more realistic.
It's not a good thing that either would fail. But I feel like Skit-B's failure could have a bigger impact on the future of boutique pinball.
Frankly I'd rather that both projects somehow made it, and that at the very least people were able to get most of their money back. But it feels like we're reaching a tipping point there.

Kevin is a nobody with a pinball machine that always looked like crap and caused too many bricked shots with its terrible layout. Him failing will not make it into the pinball history books.

Whereas Popaduik is a pinball legend. His fall will create ripples of conversation for decades.

Pat Lawlor: "My new machine will be amazing."
Jack: "Make sure you don't pull a JPOP."

#5110 4 years ago
Quoted from jarjarisgod:

To the people who have skin in either game, the ripple effects will be just as significant whether it was John or Kevin who was the one taking their money and doling out false hope.

Check my edit, the top designers at JJP and Stern will definitely be using the term "JPOP" in a different manner. I'm not just talking about money. When a book about the legends of pinball get made, the Zidware failure (if it happens), will be detailed. Kevin is a nobody.

As for the loss of the clients money, I can't really judge which one is worse right now. No point in taking sides.

#5226 4 years ago
Quoted from woodworker:

Wait a minute...

So who is telling the truth here?

It's definitely not Zidware or anyone who gets paid by Zidware.

#5340 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

If you're implying I'm getting paid by Zidware, you are 100% wrong. I just want to clarify this. I volunteered to help John a few years ago with some patent stuff, and have done so along with some other legal assistance (e.g. a trademark filing or 2, the lease for his workshop). And I'm doing this pro bono. Not charging John a penny for my services. Why? because i love pinball, love his earlier games, want to see these new games get made, and I think it's cool to be a part of a new pinball venture. (Truth be told, I offered to help JJP early on too, but Jack already had an IP lawyer.) And I have regular big clients for my day job that pay the bills, so I can indulge in this fun aspect of my profession.
As for the apparently discrepancy in the above statements, they aren't quite so incongruous. What I meant by the lack of a cash crunch is that based on the pre-orders and amount remaining due from both titles, there is enough money (based on what I was told, with no evidence to the contrary) to complete and build the games. And that there are waiting lists. Obviously making more MGs would add a cushion.
As with any startup/new company that needs parts inventories for product, if a ton of people demand refunds, then yeah, there wouldn't be enough to finish the games and ship them. Because there are startup and development costs. They have to be amortized over the total run of games. Once the startup/development costs are covered by X number of games, then selling more games is where the profits start, which represent basically the difference between the selling price and the parts/mfg costs. And with the small runs of both MG and RAZA that were announced, there doesn't seem to be a huge cushion. If the full runs remain paid for, then I think all should work out based on what I've been generally told. (Iceman could probably speak to this better at some point!) If each run is cut in half, then yeah, there probably would not be enough left over beyond parts/mfg expenses to cover development costs.
But from everything I've seen and heard over the past few years, I don't see any deceit going on here at all. Just a great designer with his own quirks who tends to focus on finalizing the layout/artwork/toys/design first, with audio and video clips, and saving the 'standard' hardware control and programming for the end. Clearly he has never focused on getting a basic whitewood flipping, and instead has been testing new toys/components individually with mock-ups/prototypes. The parts he has designed, printed, and purchased to date are basically production quality. And I do agree, it would really change things if he got the MG prototypes wired in and flipping sooner rather than later. (the cabling layout i in place, btw.)

You're not getting paid? Not even a free machine?

And you just admitted that your knowledge of Zidware's cash reserve is based on what he "told" you. That sounds like Skit-B fanboy ignorance. John has been proven, as a matter of fact, to have lied before, he has no credibility (not after his lie about Fast/Mission being involved in october, and at the same time, saying he doesn't lie to delay).

#5473 4 years ago
Quoted from jarjarisgod:

True. It makes me wonder what the next theme will be. Game #4 has to be just around the corner. Sadly, I'm only half-joking at this point.
And shouldn't he be figuring out the hardware/software side of things at this point anyway?

Game #4 has already started, it's called Pussycat Bowling or something like that, and game #5 has something to do with the bible. These games also had a "coming soon" website but got closed down when pinsiders found out. Which means John follows this thread.

#5477 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

He also mentioned a Makerbot pin in an interview.

That was a JPOP joke, it was his way of saying that he's using Makerbot so much he wants to get married with it.

#5598 4 years ago

So now even those who have pre-ordered AiW (and have a right to see the private blog) are in the dark now?

#5715 4 years ago
Quoted from Bonnevil69:

LOL i responded to this post, talked to him awhile about it, then was told by friends that i wont be paid and discontinued such talks

He's not a "nice guy".

#5724 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Wow, good luck finding a programmer.
He would be better off trolling college recruiters for someone that doesn't know any better and will take a $45k job right out of college.

He has no money left. They would have to work for free.

#5726 4 years ago

or a naive pinball fan

#5746 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

The FAST board is still not for sale yet. MPF is incomplete. What's the rush?
MPF uses pyGame for video. As someone who (co-?)wrote the original HD VGA fork of pyprocgame using Pygame (and recently re-wrote the new hardware accelerated version) allow me to assure you that doing this:
In Pygame would be rather difficult without some very beefy computer driving the game. There are ways to do FMV in another process (via udp or similar) controlling the graphics and we've seen quite a few variants of this on the pinballcontrollers forums over the years. So, if you want to make good on John's goals for this game, you're not likely to do it easily/soon with fast+MPF.
There's also potentially no need to order new boards if there are enough QPC boards for every machine. Others have stated that the QPC board has been made to run pyprocgame so I assume that means they ported Libpinproc. Since MPF leverages Libpinproc for p-roc support (Brian, do not crucify me for oversimplifying) then the QPC can probably run pyprocgame code OR MPF code.
There's certainly a way to get this done. Flushing what has been done already is almost certainly not the way.

in english please

#5747 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Speculation, maybe true but a guess on your part.

Look, he owes some serious money to some serious vendors. So if he's not broke, then he's a petty criminal who I would never want to support. Either way, it's bad.

#5789 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

You need a whitewood to refine.

And he wanted to open a pinball school, you know, to teach students how it's done.

#5810 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Lyman, Keefer, and Nordman may say otherwise.

What did they say?

#5812 4 years ago

indulge me

#5821 4 years ago

I was ejected for 1 day from the SkitB Predator thread for writing this:

"And JPOP is, in fact, a thief who stole $7k from one vendor, and there are other vendors I'm sure. So me saying "he's not a nice guy" is fair."

The mods write:

"Unless you have concrete evidence on JPop, there is no grounds fr calling him a thief. That's how nasty rumors get started. If you have evidence, post it in the appropriate thread."

Didn't GLM admit this here? Oh well.

#5831 4 years ago

Guys, the only thing right now that will light a match under John's butt is my creating a new thread in the general "All" section about him stealing money from Cointaker and GLM. A thief deserves to be (at the least) called out for it.

No one reads this thread. The mods banned me because they did not read the following:

Quoted from GLModular:

This is the post I made to the private owners thread:
"From my records GLM worked on and delivered approximately 16 different prototype PCBs and 4 production ready PCBs over the course of 2 years from March 2012 to October 2013, totaling approximately 1420 total boards built and delivered to Zidware.
Out of the 10 invoices that were sent to Zidware, two are outstanding
One of the invoices was for 4 different production ready PCBs (1122 in total). All four of the designs were 1st runs, although one was a modified version of a previously run prototype, all of which had been properly quoted and signed off on by John.
The second invoice was for 4 power supply units which were signed off on, but due to a heavily compressed time schedule to get them done for the 2013 Expo "reveal" (that didn't happen), a proper quote and invoice was sent afterwards.
By Expo 2013, the first invoice had already been past due by 4 months."

Quoted from GLModular:

When you deliver more than a thousand (approved and signed off on by John) PCB assemblies and you don't get paid for them, we're not talking about "not on board ... understandably unhappy".
I'm in manufacturing. I have lived and breathed it for 20+ years. I know how a typical bidding process works and usually, it's just another day at the office, win or lose.
The fact of the matter is, every project that I worked on and delivered to Zidware has FULL documentation. That is: Zidware requests a part, GLM quotes it, Zidware creates a PO, Zidware sends deposit check, GLM does the design work and sends it to Zidware for approval, Zidware approves the design, GLM produces the part, GLM delivers the part, GLM sends an invoice, Zidware pays invoice.
If the case were: Zidware requests a part, GLM quotes it, Zidware says "No thanks, someone was cheaper.", then I'd have no issues to gripe about. I'd have been more than happy to let someone else take it on (and be in this position). But that isn't how it went down.

Quoted from Aurich:

So I'm confused, you said Zidware pays invoice, but you didn't get paid. Were you paid for some things and not others?

Quoted from GLModular:

I was outlining the general process.
There are two invoices that were not paid by Zidware. Meaning GLM upheld it's part of the process (as outlined), but Zidware didn't complete the final part (paying the invoice).

Quoted from Aurich:

Got it, just wanted it to be clear since we're talking about this in public.
That sounds like a pretty crystal clear issue to me, not something about "unhappy prototype bidders" or whatever.

Quoted from GLModular:

The classification of a product has no bearing on the contractual business that occurred.
Zidware placed an order. Orders were fulfilled. Payment was not received. End-Of-Story.

Quoted from Aurich:

The fact that he's paid 8 invoices and now suddenly refuses to pay 2 of them, and then is showing a third game ... well, it's hard to read it as anything other than him being broke and trying to use the 3rd game to raise capital.
Edit: I don't mean to be alarmist by the way, and I have no other facts, it's just that we know he owes Cointaker $7k, he won't pay GLM for obvious work, and he's pushing something aimed at new buyers who aren't maybe burned out. Not really any good scenarios based on that info.

Quoted from benheck:

It's a small community - he's burned through just about everyone.

But GLM and Cointaker might not want that, I don't know.

What do you guys think?

#5835 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

I just meant those 3 are more creative than him.

ah whoops, I was thinking they said something similar to what Steve Ritchie said.

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Machine - For Sale
Austin, TX
$ 119.00
Lighting - Interactive
$ 27.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
6,250 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Milwaukee, WI

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