(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (2 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (2 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (2 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (2 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (2 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (2 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)


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#1982 5 years ago

I've been busy all day and am just getting caught up. This is a lot of information to process. Can someone give me a quick rundown of what went down? Am I to understand that the "big reveal" happened today, and the only thing that was actually revealed was the artwork? This doesn't make any sense. I was at his shop recently and saw several Magic Girls with my own eyes. It looked like the game was coming along nicely. What the f*ck is going on? I'm so confused.

#2013 5 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

I can understand why some of the boutique pinball makers are having a hard time with delays etc being it's their first attempt at doing something for the first time, but what's John's excuse? He should have known what the process was going to entail and planned ahead accordingly.

This is the main reason I felt comfortable putting down money on RAZA. Given John's proven track record as a designer, and the invaluable experience he gained from his days at Williams, I figured this project would be a walk in the park for him. I expected to see some cool innovation, but I didn't think he was going to try to completely reinvent the wheel.

#2025 5 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

And programmers, and mechanical engineers, and ...

Correct, and it was reasonable to assume at the time that because of John's past experiences, he would have a lot of connections in these areas.

#2030 5 years ago

What makes this situation sting more than the other pre-order debacles is that so many people love and respect John's past work. In a way, people feel like they have been let down by one of their heroes.

36
#2282 5 years ago

The moderators have discussed it, and we have decided to permanently ban kaneda from this thread for "general conduct unbecoming a Pinsider".

2 weeks later
#2904 5 years ago
Quoted from jwo825:

I'm afraid that if this is the kind of stuff that John is patenting, you can consider yourselves investors ...

Quoted from Sjsilver:

Investors get equity in exchange for risk. More like Patrons of the Arts.

I prefer the term "benefactor".

10
#3038 5 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Well I think I've learned something in these past 3 years. I can't speak for all, but I think a lot of people were dreaming of BBB. Where a game is made, it's playable and rare and good art and it was selling for $20k.
I figured what's the worse that happens especially when a Stern TRON LE is selling for $10k, wouldn't a custom limited pin from Jpop be worth at least that?
But I was figuring on the wrong thing, I was figuring on an actual game like BBB was not figuring on a game that might not exist. I never believed this could take 3 years and still NOTHING to show for it. I said to John you have nothing to show us and he got defensive but we are still waiting for any reveal of a flipping proto.

I think we're all on the same page. When we first put our money down with Jpop, it was a completely different pinball landscape. The hobby was exploding, and everyone was looking for the next big thing. I was too late to get in on MG, but I jumped on BHZA the second it was announced. It seemed like a very good bet at the time. Yes, it was a lot of money, but John was such a highly respected person in the pinball community. Who would have possibly imagined that three years later he still wouldn't have produced even a single game? It absolutely boggles the mind.

1 week later
#3574 4 years ago
Quoted from Bonnevil69:

so are all the mechs and everything clear? so much art, how is it all going to be seen

There are no mechs. JPop is going for a more pure pinball experience.

#3604 4 years ago

The only thing that concerned me about the RAZA playfield when I saw it in person was that it didn't seem like it had much flow. Unless John has changed it since then, there wasn't even a full orbit shot on either side.

1 month later
#5293 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm gonna try and have another conversation with John like I said tomorrow and implore him to get off his ass and communicate the truth and updates on his own.

We can only hope that the Skit-B scandal will finally serve as a wake up call to John. Perhaps seeing the worst case scenario unfold like this will be the slap in the face that he needs to start taking his customers seriously.

19
#5295 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Given all the red flags that have been waving for the last 2 years with Jpop, I just don't want to be seen going down with the ship, side by side and accused of whatever if it doesn't work out.

I think I speak for all of us when I say that your efforts in attempting to remedy this situation are highly appreciated.

#5358 4 years ago

How did most people pay JPop for their games? All the money I gave him was via personal checks. Did anyone use PayPal? IIRC, John stopped accepting PayPal shortly after the initial RAZA deposits.

20
#5384 4 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

John has been pretty hard at work on AIW:

The fact that he has poured so much time and effort into AIW is just going to piss off the MG and RAZA people more.

#5386 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

No question the man can design games. That AIW looks effing tits! But we'll never see it produced. He only likes doing the "fun" stuff it appears and doesn't know how to really get things done. Shame. These machines look incredible, but they'll never see the light of day.

John is very talented. No doubt about it. He would have been a perfect match for a company like JJP.

#5395 4 years ago

Is John's blog officially dead? He hasn't posted a RAZA update in nearly a month?

#5406 4 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

For what it is worth, it was not my intention to open up a can of worms by posting the pic.

On the contrary, I appreciate you sharing it. Yes, it makes me damn frustrated, but I welcome any insight I can get into JPop's mad, mad, mad, mad world.

10
#5507 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

You'd be a moron to send John a single dime right now.

Sending John money at this stage in the game is beyond moronic. It's sub-moronic.

#5672 4 years ago

I'm curious to know if any people have requested refunds from John recently, and if so, did any of you receive a response? I know people were ignored when requesting refunds in the past, but in light of the Predator situation, this is something that should no longer be taken lightly.

#5693 4 years ago

I'm confused. I thought John told ice that he was opening up all the blogs to the public, and that he no longer cared if stuff from the blogs was shared with the community. Is this not the case?

#5697 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Open and then instantly shut.

Quoted from epthegeek:

That was before the 'great harm'

So what happened? Did people start criticizing what they saw, so he closed everything back up?

#5701 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

No we were asking on pinside why he was spending his time on AIW instead of finishing MG and RAZA. And he freaked.

Wow, I completely missed that. When did this "freak out" happen?

#5704 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

I believe he's referring to this:

Quoted from jazzmaster:

I guess posting here is one way to get his attention..... from the blog:
"All,
I have had a bunch of folks message me about items from this blog appearing on public forums like “Pinside”. These items are not meant to be distributed but for the owners here only. The items / ideas / designs and illustrations on this blog are protected by United States ©Copyright and need to be kept as “trade secrets” until public viewing is ready.
If you are the person or know the person, please stop immediately as great harm is being done. Jpop"
So much for the "opening of the gates" policy.

Thanks! I somehow missed that. I assume that was in the AIW blog? He definitely didn't mention anything about it in the RAZA blog. So I guess John pulled a 180. Not surprising, but very disappointing.

#5760 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I was also pleased to see that Heighway's chief software guy won the IFPA state championships for Florida - a real pinball player. THAT is the experience we need for programmers, look at the value that Lyman and Keefer bring because they are top rated players and know what works and what doesn't.

you are absolutely correct. I mentioned this to John when I met with him. I asked him who was going to be programming the games, and I specifically pointed out that it needed to be someone who was a player themselves. You can't just shove any random programmer into the role and think that you are going to get a game that is fun. Myman and Keefer are so good at what they do because they instinctively know what works and what doesn't.

#5786 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

As much as he says he follows the bally/williams way, he isnt. He said in an interview that at bally/williams, they made whitewoods and the ones that flipped the best then were sent for a theme and art package.

That can't be entirely true for every game. For example, there is no way WCS94 started off as a purely generic whitewood. It was clearly designed with soccer in mind from the outset.

#5884 4 years ago

Wait, so now the MG blog is open to the public again? I'm so confused.

#6012 4 years ago
Quoted from j69:

Pretty sure the guy is legit. He was on the JJP group with the same username. He's from the UK if anyone can check his ip

I don't know if he is legit or not, but he does indeed have a UK IP address.

#6070 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm sure a big part of going away from the blogs to static html is to shut that down.

It's not a "big part", it's 100% of the reason he's making the switch.

23
#6112 4 years ago

This whole situation is just really sad. If the project goes down in flames and people lose a ton of money, I can envision a future where JPop will no longer even be welcome at shows. To go from one of the most celebrated modern designers to being blackballed from the community would be such a tragedy.

#6117 4 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Would he be welcome now?

At this very moment, probably not. If he were to attend a show without bringing a fully flipping game with some rudimentary software, he would have a lot of angry people to contend with.

#6118 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

I would say he's crossed that mark already.

I agree, but the situation is still potentially salvageable. If the worst case scenario happens and we don't get games or our money back, his reputation is ruined forever in a community that used to idolize him.

1 week later
#6957 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm not saying it's easy, look JJP is still not building TH and MMR was 4-5 months late to ship. But that's one thing, but being 3-4 years into development and not even having a prototype to show is appalling.

It's beyond appalling. It's positively insane. The man clearly isn't playing with a full deck. There is simply no other explanation. No sane person would do what John has done.

#7244 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I have yet to hear an owner who has talked to JPop say they were very disappointed in the conversation.

When I met with him at his facility back in November, I walked away very disappointed. Sure, he showed me some cool stuff, but he deflected every serious question I had about money, programming, timelines, you name it. John is a very nice guy, but his evasiveness left me extremely concerned. This was before the big "reveal", so I still had a glimmer of hope. In retrospect, I should have asked for a refund right there and then.

#7496 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Wow, no wonder why he keeps the heat low and bundles up. The gas bill alone, and he's got high ceilings

When I visited him in November, it was f***ing freezing in there. I was literally shivering.

#7501 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I'm just saying, John could sit around NOT building games in a lot, LOT less space.

When John expanded into the adjacent space, it made sense since it was going to be used as an assembly area for the games. Now that so much time has passed and a single game hasn't been built, it was clearly just another utterly foolish decision in a long line of foolish decisions.

4 weeks later
24
#9369 4 years ago

Is it too late to take pdxmonkey up on his 50 cents on the dollar offer?

31
#9434 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

It's no longer about John Popadiuk. It's about the people with money on the line and the new investor and I'll take something over nothing anyday.

You make it seem like people should take the deal so they will at least get something. Taking the deal is hardly a guarantee that you will get something in return. In fact, it sounds like a surefire way to lose more money. Nobody in their right mind should commit a single penny more to this shit show.

17
#9491 4 years ago

Doug,

I respect the hell out of you, but surely you can see why everyone is upset. People just spent the last several years being lied to and kept in the dark by John. We now find out that John is indeed broke, and all our money is gone. Then, these new "investors" come along and reveal absolutely no details about their plan to save the company. To make matters worse, they do not even tell us who they are or why we should take them seriously. All we get is a contract that we are supposed to sign asking us for more money. Of course people are going to be pissed off.

#9532 4 years ago

I think what is bothering people the most is that it feels like a strong arm tactic. They are shoving a contract in our faces and basically saying, "Sign it or else!". They should have sent out a letter for the purpose of exploration. Instead of a contract it would merely have been a tool to gauge how amenable people were to the various options. Obviously, people would still have been upset, but there wouldn't have been nearly as much blowback. The last thing you want to do is bully people that have already been through the ringer.

-3
#9919 4 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

I found the thread you are referring to:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/buyers-of-magic-girl-only-please
It was locked and you were accused of trolling. Wow. I think you deserve an apology and the moderators should unlock your thread. You did nothing wrong.

If you look more carefully at that thread, you will see that Chuck edited his original post. There were some really mean spirited comments about JJP that he removed. For example ...

Quoted from cppinball:

After buying the Jersey Jack POS that rarely works, bad light boards, no reset buttons, switches fail or fall off , bad power supplies, cabinet with chunks missing and so on. I really not buying anymore Home brew games.

If Chuck had left out that stuff and just stuck to the MG issue, I don't think anybody would have had a problem with it.

#10336 4 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Beyond anything else, the main issue with buying into any LE/Premium/Standard model, regardless of the terms, is we don't know the differences. I think everyone can agree that without the exclusivity factor, MG is NOT a $16k machine. Frankly from my perspective it isn't a $12k machine either. Regardless, what is going to be different to create the $4-6k difference between models? The game is already so cluttered, how can there be room to add anything worthwhile. If you're not adding more for the LE, then you're removing for the lower model, which already isn't worth the price even without being neutered.

I'm with you, Cheeks. Now that we are talking about a much larger run of MG's, the game simply won't be worth close to $16K. I think they need to forget about this LE nonsense and focus 100% of their efforts on making one incredible MG model priced at $10K. Since MG is the furthest along, RAZA and AIW should be completely off the table for now. If MG turns out to be as good as they think it will be, they should be able to sell enough units at that price to make everyone whole. The MG buyers will get $6K refunds, and the RAZA and AIW buyers will be able to convert their deposits into MG deposits (1). I believe this would make the maximum number of people happy. If the game doesn't turn out to be a home run, then this whole conversation is moot anyway. The reality is that everything hinges on MG being f**cking awesome. It's the only way they will get the necessary funds needed to get the game made.

#10386 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

you are out,you lost everything,there is no spot to sell for 75%,evry one of us will take 75%

I'll take 74% ...

16
#10449 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

So because of John's terrible records, on top of all his other ineptitude, he doesn't have ANY CONCEQUENCES for his actions!? He just gets a pat on the head and gets to go on his merry way? Please. I'm not even talking about revenge and lawsuits....I'm simply talking about him returning what isn't his. We'll never know if he blew all the money or not unless someone goes through the records and makes sense of it. If it's gone because he spent it all on equipment, parts and rent - that's one thing...but if it all went to "salary"? ...that means it's sitting in a savings account somewhere. That money is not his to keep. Since Bill said Zidwares financials aren't their concern, that makes me think Pintasia has NOT sorted through the mess...which just makes this seem like a pipe dream and/or stalling tactic.
There needs to be full transparency of what Jpop did all these years with the money. I think only then will trust be gained.

I'm with you 100% on this, and I said as much over in the owner's group. I want to know where all our money went, and I can't even imagine signing anything until this information is all laid out in black and white. For all we know, John is sitting on a boatload of our cash. If forcing him into bankruptcy is the only way to prove this isn't the case, then so be it.

#10812 4 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

If you, and any others, paid via paypal using your credit card, you should immediately file for a charge-back. Many victims of Skit-B were able to get full or partial refunds this way.

Unfortunately, almost all of the RAZA payments were made via checks. I don't know about MG or AIW, since I was not in on either of those.

#12179 4 years ago

Who exactly is this Zane D. Smith, and how did he get involved? Is he a friend of someone with money at stake? Do we even know if he is a competent attorney?

#12441 4 years ago

He has a WPC power driver board that I generously donated to him years ago so he could reverse engineer it.

#12446 4 years ago
Quoted from Revo76:

Why would he have to use a board for that ?

You got me. He wanted a board. I had an extra one lying around. I gave it to him.

#12504 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

If Zidware cannot refund EVERYBODY IN FULL, they should pierce the corporate veil of Zidware and take John's personal assets and liquidate everything.

That is a lot easier said than done.

2 weeks later
#15448 4 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

You're a great guy and that's a nice offer...but if anyone here needs $500, they should not be collecting pinball machines...

The money was given to John a long time ago. A lot can happen in three years. Someone who was in a position to pay $10K for RAZA back then may be barely keeping their head above water now.

Edit: Looks like Jim beat me to it. Man, does this thread move fast! I stopped to play with my son for a couple minutes and I missed 20 posts.

16
#15483 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

This is a point because people are upset they took a loss while John got to live comfortably on their dollar.

Of course they are upset, and when you keep on telling these people that John's salary was completely justified, you shouldn't be surprised that it makes them even more upset. Whether you are right or wrong is beside the point. You are basically rubbing salt into the wound.

#15550 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I stick with my original assessment from a few months back: John gambled that someone would buy him out - and he lost.

So are you saying that he purposely slowed the production of MG and RAZA to increase the liklihood that he would get bought out before he actually had to reveal the games to the buyers? This theory would make sense, since there is no other way I can fathom how he managed to accomplish so little in four years.

11
#15560 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

I tried Ben...it was hard..

I'm sure it's hard. But I'm also sure that even someone who knows absolutely nothing about pinball design or manufacturing could build a single fully realized protytpe if they were given a million bucks and four years to do it. John couldn't even accomplish this. It truly boggles the mind.

16
#15648 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Until the landlord kicks him out, I don't believe the money is truly "gone" and the longer he noodles, the less there is for recovery.

His day of reckoning is near. The lawsuits are coming. There is no stopping that train now.

1 week later
#16057 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Pinballs you also might want to edit your post to remove the quote from Chris as we should probably assume johns Lawyer (that we owners are paying for) is reading this thread.

I took care of it.

3 months later
#17643 4 years ago

I'm not going to listen to the interview. If I did, I'd probably just end up hurling my laptop through the living room window, and then I'd be out even more money!

#17745 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I found the interview fair and balanced. Had Nate "gone off on him" he would have just hung up.

As much as I would have liked to see Nate put him on the spot, I don't think it would have amounted to much. I asked John some tough questions when I met with him at his shop back in December, and he evaded every single one of them. I asked him about the money, deadlines, programming, the supposed "project manager", etc... I didn't get a single concrete answer to any of my inquiries. The guy is a master at avoiding the real subject at hand and going off on wild tangents.

#17755 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

I'm sorry, but TWO hours of drivel and zero pressing questions to make that snake squirm was disgusting to listen to.

Which is precisely why I chose not to listen to it ...

10 months later
#19158 3 years ago
Quoted from mrbillishere:

My choice would be the Italian Beef and hand-cut fries at Nana's in Streamwood ...

Quoted from benheck:

Nana's is awesome, well worth a visit!

Hell yeah! They have some of the best Italian beef and fries in the entire Chicago area.

#19178 3 years ago

You would think any potential investor would take one look at the nearly 20,000 posts in this thread, and turn around and run away as fast as they can.

5 months later
#21591 2 years ago

I predict that MG will ultimately turn out to be a decent game. Unfortunately, it will require some very dedicated owners to rebuild half the game and finish off the code.

#22410 2 years ago

I'm not surprised to see people paying up for these. There are a lot of wealthy collectors that like to have rare pieces like this. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that I would have thought anyone who would be willing to pay these kind of crazy prices for one would have already been on the original pre-order list.

#22499 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Ok,my 2 cents..
Magic Girl has been created with our Raza and Aiw money.
Where is MY item where i can fetch $20.100 dollars for?
Very happy for people getting THEIR pins,but they walk away with FAT profits and to tell you the truth: it feels kind of wrong?
What's up with that?
We are in this crap together...yeah right...

I don't disagree with what you are saying. At the end of the day, some people got very lucky and others got screwed. Are the MG people entitled to that money more than the RAZA/AIW people? Hell no, but it's not like all the MG owners were going to get together and say, "Hey, let's auction off all the games to highest bidders and split the profits among ALL the pre-order people". In this dog eat dog world, that was simply never a realistic scenario.

24
#22505 2 years ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

Collect-ability is weird.

You can say that again, and it's not always just about rarity. Some things simply become more collectible than other things, and there isn't always an obvious reason why. For example, there are way less 24s out there than BBBs, and yet nobody really gives a shit about 24. For whatever reason, the people willing to spend the big bucks really want an MG in their collection, thus it has doubled in price overnight.

I will say this, you couldn't pay me to put an MG in my collection. In my eyes, that game was built from the blood of fellow hobbyists, and I consider its very existence to be a slap in the face to every person who lost money with Jpop.

19
#22521 2 years ago

I'll be honest, it kind of sickens me when I hear how much some people are shelling out for an MG. I can't blame the MG owners for cashing out when people are literally throwing money at them, but it pisses me off that in some warped way it vindicates John (at least in his mind). The man didn't do anything to deserve any sort of vindication. In fact, quite the opposite is true. He pushed out a broken piece of shit game just to fulfill his legal obligation. By paying up for an MG, you are essentially condoning this bullshit.

#22530 2 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

There are fewer than 200 24's?

I heard there were less than 200 of them made, but who knows for sure. Regardless, the point I was making is still a valid one. Rarity does not automatically make a game highly collectible.

1 week later
#23129 2 years ago

I appreciate iceman's passion, but I think his anger is misguided. The fault does not lie with the MG owners who are selling their games. It lies with the buyers. They are the fools that are paying up for this half baked piece of s**t.

#23141 2 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

I really hesitate to call anyone who invested in Magic Girl a "fool". It's not like there was a historical precedent for boutique pinball, and there wasn't a historical precedent for boutique pinball manufacturers to rip their client base off.
People who invest in something they believe in shouldn't be considered "fools" or else no one else will ever be willing to take a risk again.

Please re-read my post. I never called the people who originally ordered MG fools.

#23144 2 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

But I still am weary of calling the people who buy these MGs "fools". This is a part of pinball history, after all. It's like people who pay big money for sports cards with unique defects on them. It's their money, they can do what they like with it. It's not up to you or me to decide whether they are foolish for spending it the way they want to.

Normally I would agree with you. People can spend their money any way they want, and who are we to judge. For example, I would never pay $15K for a BM66 SLE, but I have absolutely no problem with the anyone who did. This is a completely different scenario, though. MG was built on blood money, and a ton of people have yet to be compensated in any way, shape or form. I am part of this group. As such, I am personally offended by anyone who would pay a large sum of money for one of these games when so many good people were left holding their dicks.

#23147 2 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

I wasn't aware of your relationship to the whole fiasco. If you don't mind me asking, are you owned a MG and didn't get one, or were you in on the other games?

I was not in on MG, only RAZA.

#23152 2 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

Would you still be interested in RAZA being made?

Quoted from toyotaboy:

BHZA would have been pretty cool had JPOP not burned his bridges with Ben, and some of those features actually came to life (and Matt Andrews did some killer artwork). The ridiculous collage of robby robot, clowns, zombies and horrible pukey GI colors turned that game into a nightmare. Seems like when he changed directions, a lot of owners were pissed it changed direction so badly.

I quoted toyotaboy because his post perfectly summarizes why I no longer have any interest in getting a RAZA. Obviously, I would rather have one than get nothing at all, but given the choice, I'd take my money back in a heartbeat. As time went on, the game became an incohesive mess. In its current state, it's much different than the game most of us thought we were getting when we signed the contract.

1 year later
#23973 1 year ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Now Deepbutthurtroot is harbouring a criminal

This was a civil trial, so he's not considered a criminal in the eyes of the law. Of course, the court of public opinion may have differing views on the matter ...

#23979 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It was an “Inc.”. I assume S Corp which means whomever set it up didn’t know what they were doing.

Correct. It was an S Corp.

1 week later
#24134 1 year ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

JJP is NOT a boutique manufacturer. Spooky is a boutique manufacturer

I would agree with this statement.

#24141 1 year ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

f you were to characterize pinball in that fashion then you could almost consider STERN as boutique? A couple thousand of each title world wide? In the big picture, STERN is not, and they are the volume leader. I don't think JJP would consider themselves boutique either.

I would put Stern, JJP and Chicago Gaming firmly in the non-boutique category. All the rest of the companies making games are definitely boutique, at least at this point.

5 months later
#24269 1 year ago

I never understood the people who payed $20K+ for the MG's. Even when they didn't think there was a possibility of more being made, that still seemed like a crazy amount of money to blow on a game that didn't work.

#24271 1 year ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Man, what WAS the original price?

I think they were $16k.

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