(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

21 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (2 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (2 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (2 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (2 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (2 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (2 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (2 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (2 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (2 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (2 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (2 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (1 year ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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12
#8179 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Hello, don't forget WCS, which (I believe) was taken away form him..!

According to Steve Ritchie:

STEVE: Oh, World Cup. World Cup was taken over.

MARK: It wasn't a bad pin, it's still all right, actually we still operate it.

STEVE: In the end it turned out to be pretty Ok, but in the beginning it was handled by a newbie. The game designer was a stubborn newbie, and it had to be taken over by someone else.

MARK: Did this happen very often?

STEVE: Actually it never happened before unless somebody died or got sick.

MARK: Did he abandon the project or did he just get the sack?

STEVE: Neither. He cooperated, learned and latter did Theatre of Magic and some other really good work. But when he first came in he thought he just knew everything about making pinballs and it is just not that kind of thing. You have to live it for a long time, you must have an affinity for mechanicals and you have to be able to work with other people.

MARK: Working with others is essential, unless you are a going it alone.

STEVE: No one could make a great pinball alone. The closest I've seen is Brian Eddy on Shadow, I think. I believe he drew the game and then programmed it. It was quite a feat, but he had to learn about mechanicals on that game. It was tough, but I will always admire him for doing that.

#8311 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballlife:

Actually, it didn't take years. The first BBB hit Ebay a couple days after the IPB pick up day. It sold for $13,5000, thus quickly establishing its market value.
I still have my meal ticket for the IPB pick up day. I got my sandwich, fries, and drink and they forgot to take my ticket so I kept it as a little memento. Should be worth thousands by now. Taking offers!

1431272495560-1827736615.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Sorry rarehero, dude is right. BBB was instantly worth over twice what it sold for. That was a gamble that lots of people wish they'd taken - but I was very wary of forking over $4500 back then on a pipe dream. Just not my style, then or now.

#8362 4 years ago
Quoted from taz:

B/S, I'm an owner of the vaporware, so I've seen the video, it has paper ramps and some of the mechs don't work. The ball has to be captured and manually put back into play. B/S!!!! I could do better with a month of time, $1K, and some clip art of Godzilla, Robbie the Robot and Mars Attacks.

Relax bro! I'm told some "major rampage" is on the way.

#8691 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

How is it you think any of these people, jpop, Steven are going to meet with you? Have you talked to them and arranged something, just hoping?

This dude has been collecting pinball machines for over THREE YEARS.

I think they'd know better than to refuse an audience with him.

1 week later
#9378 4 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

Pinball Hall of Shame
Wayne-O
Bumper
Vonnie D & Wes Upchurch
Kevin Kulek
John A Popaduik Jr.
Did I miss anyone?

Randy Buffalo!!!!

#11098 4 years ago
Quoted from vex:

i wish bill and all those invested, including the vendors a positive outcome, except jpop. i want to see jpop taken behind the wood shed and given what he has coming. if the price would be reasonable for mg it might have a chance but if jpop is still involved i wouldn't even consider buying in at 5000$
i hope pintasia gets as far away from this criminal clown as possible for the sake of their own credibility. pintasia having fraudsters like jpop consulting will bring "great harm" to pintasia.

Isn't the entire point of this shitshow to produce some brand new Jpop machines?

Not sure if I understand the whole "get Jpop as far away from this project as possible!!!!" concept.

Seems like if anybody is going to try to see this thing through Jpop's involvement is going to be a necessary evil.

12
#11187 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Not sure how you make this leap.

Me neither. His resume pales behind those of guys like Ritchie, Lawlor, Eddy, Kordek, Python, Barry O...

For me he really only made one classic, TOM, and plenty of people dislike that one as well. His legacy is pretty games with creative themes and with half-baked code. Oh...and this thread.

Interesting that his least expensive/sought after game is also probably his best (WCS). You don't see that too often. I give TOM the edge but again, it's on theme/toys/overall package. That's always been Pop's strength.

#11214 4 years ago

All is forgiven!!!

Looks cool. Where do I send my several thousands of dollars?

18
#11754 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I'd love to play this game, or see it made, but at this point it seems like that crappy car you had as a teenager, and at a certain point you're better off taking it to the dump than putting more money into it.

Well everybody I knew who had a crappy car in high school, including myself, made sure to invest a couple hundred bucks in a KICKASS STEREO!!!!

#11763 4 years ago
Quoted from BackFlipper:

Good thing he did not bring this to shows. He would have collected even more deposits and might have announced another game by now. This show may have gone on another two years before the music finally stopped.

It's true.

I'm sure even the rudimentary videos appejuice is posting has some folks here reflexively reaching for their wallets.

#12164 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I'm baffled why people (apparently) were paid in ful for any of these games.

You underestimate the psychological pull of "pre-paying" for something.

You pay for something...it means you are going to get it, at least in the minds of psyched up buyers who couldn't believe that they were gonna be one of a precious few to own the "next BBB," in this case a completely unleashed Jpop producing something that is gonna be better than CV, TOM and TOTAN combined, and far more exclusive than almost any other game ever produced. People got so fired up for this, and paying in full provided that shot of endorpins that kept the whole scam going.

it's the same reason people go for shitty concert "presale" tickets - when if they just have some patience they'll get better seats at possibly lower cost.

Not blaming anybody but I think it's a good explanation. When you want something THAT BAD...a super exclusive game...concert tickets...people will pre-pay just to have a bird in hand so to speak. People pre-pay, preorder, prebuy stuff all the time when there's absolutely no need for it.

Even watching these videos applejuice posted...well it kinda makes me want to spend money.

-7
#12223 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

I've paid my $500 now, so game on. It is happening.

Yeah if I were one of the victims in this whole thing my first instinct would definitely be "spend more money."

#12357 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

So much of the ill will could have been avoided had John been more honest about everything. He could still go a long way to repairing his reputation by coming clean even today. Most people don't want to think of him badly. It will not solve all the legal headaches, but could help with 80%. Enough that he could show his face again at a pinball show.
Basically do this:
-Stop blaming anyone else
-A real apology
-In hindsight, when did you realize this was mission impossible
-Why did you continue with the charade
-Talk about living with the lies, how deep it went, how you treated the people closest to you
-How did you hope it would end, once you knew you'd never be able to do it on your own
-Explain what thought/planning went into the budget/numbers
-What kind of BOM did you come up with, and how did you think you could get it done?
-What went through your mind when you were challenged by your customers with good questions and how you dealt with that
-The reasoning of treating your vendors so badly
-Did you think you could recover
-Talk about how you didn't see yourself as a bad person, but your actions could only be described as being a bad person
I could keep going actually.... there is a lot to be mended. It was years of deception, lies, poor choices and terrible behavior. I believe most people want to forgive and move on though. But it's up to John to do anything about it.

Sounds like you want a Dr. Phil / Oprah special.

I think most people would settle for a refund or a pinball machine.

#12749 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

agreed. Even low for lowepg.
Everyone please take note that he is the sort of guy to publish PMs (PERSONAL messages) that you send to him. Pretty disgusting forum behavior.

Really?

I'd never send a "personal message" to a complete stranger on an internet forum that I wasn't comfortable with anybody seeing. Unless there's a specific rule against it and it's a bannable offense I don't see the problem.

11
#12761 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

If you PM me something in confidence then I'll never post your PM here. That's really bad form. If you send me something like this though, I'm gonna post it, because I want to laugh at you, and you deserve it.
This image got 2 "unsafe" tags and has been hidden automatically, as per your settings. un-hideMr. Grumpy Pants 2

LOL. Case in point.

Why WOULDN'T somebody post a pm they received when it's something like that?

Send stupid PMs, win stupid prizes.

#12861 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Ironic that John says I left because of drinking, stories go old Williams was a booze and coke soaked affair.

I'd love to hear more about how these stories go!

#13075 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

» YouTube video

LOL @ "I started the master race out of my garage!"

#13126 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Pinsiders do know, right, that the Hitler Reacts meme is over 6 years old?
Still, fun to drag it out for stuff like this and man, it was SOOOO easy to write

Well most pinsiders only think it's 2 years old, but yes, it's pretty common knowledge that this isn't brand new shit.

They'd stop making 'em if they stopped being funny but after all this time...it's still kind of hard to make a bad one.

#13922 4 years ago

I keep seeing people allude to the idea that the point of showing this proto off was to entice more - NEW - buyers to jump into this thing and pump still more money into this raging tire fire so that there might be the funds to finish it.

Is this really true? Has anybody suggested they'll be opening this up for additional pre-orders? Are they actually doing that?

#14131 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Stupid and a bad business decision? Yea. Disgusting and human filth.. I'd relegate those terms for stronger crimes than being an inept businessman.

Revisiting the KISS thread is amusing and sad. Plenty of

"He did this on his own time, for a dying friend!!!! I see nothing wrong with it and certainly doubt resources or time was diverted from Magic Girl!"

As an aside, this thread surely has achieved some kind of internet forum record for use of the phrase "skin in the game."

#14362 4 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Seen from a bystander, it is even worse to see that thread spiraling down into name calling and bickering than to know that so many of you lost your money.

Nah, I'd say it is CERTAINLY worse that all these people lost tons of money than it is that this thread has spiraled into name calling and bickering.

After all, almost every thread in the history of the internet spirals into bickering and name calling if it goes past 100 posts or so...but people losing thousands of dollars on a hot mess of a boutique pinball scheme?

Well, that doesn't happen every day.

#14550 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

First and foremost, I would like to express my deep gratitude to everyone who dedicated their time and effort to help bring Magic Girl to light. Without everyone's effort this would not have been possible.
I would also like to personally thank everyone who believed and supported me in this endeavor.
After working and speaking with a lot of you, who know pinball development inside and out, and finally getting an opportunity to see how far along Magic Girl really is, I have decided that it is not worth my effort or finances to move this to completion.
Despite the fact that I'm not going to continue with MG, I do not regret the investment I have made as I hold the friendships cultivated at a much higher value.
Thanks again for all your support and patience.
Best regards,
Bill

Good call bro.

So it's all over then, right? Unless there's someone out there who is crazy enough to adopt this thing at this point.

12
#14664 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I've said it before.
Let's figure out how to package this thing and sell it as a show to the History Channel.
The cast of characters on this thing is like a mixture of Duck Dynasty, Pawn Stars, Storage Wars and Hillbilly Handfishing all rolled into one.

Why is everybody so convinced this would make such a fascinating documentary?

There's really not much to the story and it's much more depressing than it is interesting.

Basically, nothing happened for 4 years, a bunch of people got duped out of various sums of money, and now it's all over.

Call Scorsese!!!

#14790 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

I will retract my position if it is proven that you do not have MG

How can you prove you don't have something?

"insiders club" is the new "skin in the game" for this thread. Fascinating!

#14930 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Where are the rest of the almost 200 people who paid for these games? I can't imagine most of them just walking away....they will want their money back or revenge. Most people don't just "walk away" from $10k-20k. Those who want revenge clearly aren't going to post about it. This story is far from over....

There has been too much pain...too many posts. But I have an honorable compromise.

Just Walk Away.

Leave the deposits...the Magic Girl prototype...the cardboard KISS...the entire Jpop compound...and I spare you another 14,000 posts on this dead horse.

Just walk away, and there will be an end to the horror.

I give you one full day to decide.

Lord_Humungus.jpg

#15015 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

You weren't paying for a product. You were investing in a startup, with the hope of receiving a product out of it. Startups fail all the time. People lose money. No one goes to jail.
Seriously, this notion that John is going to jail, or even will be convicted of any kind of fraud, is just not happening. The lawsuit may or may not recover any money, and it will most certainly cause bankruptcy, but that's going to be the extent of it in all likelihood.

A whole lotta painful lessons are being learned here.

#15026 4 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Heres a thought. Why doesn't this idiot sell the rights plans and everything else to a company that can produce these games and use that cash to refund at least some of the money to the people who invested in him. Lets just pretend JP has some kind of ethics.

Didn't he try to do this last week?

Nobody is stupid enough to continue this folly. It's over.

#15042 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

This might not be a popular opinion, but I don't want John to go to jail. It's not really a worry for me, because frankly I think it's utterly unlikely.
I'm totally not victim blaming here, at all! But you guys took a risk sending money to someone who never actually made pinball machines by himself. Turns out he was an artist flake, he dicked around for years, and you lost your cash. Totally sucks.
But you're all adults who should have known the risks going in. Do I think you have the right to sue him and make sure he makes right what he can and doesn't "get away" with anything? Hell yes.
But going to jail? Come on. That's just a horrible thing to wish on someone. And I get that people are mad at him. But he didn't take your money and go to a tropical island. He did what some of us thought he'd always do, he farted around with pinball ideas for years, and never finished shit. As lame as it might be, he did work on pinball this whole time. He did spend your money on custom parts and development. It wasn't a scam, or a ponzi scheme, it was just a failed business from a dreamer who didn't handle the reality of getting things done.
It wouldn't feel like a victory to me, but rather a really dark mark on the hobby if he actually did jail time for that.

Interesting take.

Bonus points for managing to make it without invoking the term "skin in the game."

#15390 4 years ago

$7500 a month? That's it?!

Dude is a pinball god and genius, sounds like he was ripping himself off and taking advantage of himself.

Dude needs a union.

3 weeks later
-9
#16367 4 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

I hope no Pinsiders will accept Jack's fake smiles and hellos at shows !

People take this stuff way too seriously.

Jack is entitled to his opinion just like anybody. The idea that he will be shunned at shows and that people will stop buying his games because of it...well I don't buy that. There's about 2,000 people saying Jpop is dogshit and maybe 5 who aren't.

Even Mondale won a state. I wouldn't lose much sleep over this folks.

1 week later
#16675 4 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

I still say he needs his ass beat into the ground. See ya in 24 hours.

Vintage Brokenvette!

1 month later
#17208 3 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

The media and the general public aren't going to care very much. It's not a hot button, late-breaking, headline-making story that is rife with controversy or political intrigue.
Plus, do you really want the only thing that the general public knows about pinball to be this whole situation?
It's probably best to let this worm its way through the courts, though it make take a while. I'm assuming everyone who put down some preorder money has talked to a lawyer at some point about this?

Right. I keep hearing about what an amazing documentary this would be but it's really not that interesting, just sad for a small group of people.

Strictly "7 on your side" kind of stuff at best.

1 month later
12
#17757 3 years ago

You guys are a tough audience. We all knew that the interviewer was gonna have to kiss ass or this thing wouldn't have happened at all.

You don't like it? Get your own podcast and talk Jpop into coming on your show, and somehow get him to sit there for 2 hours while you berate him. Good luck with that.

#17772 3 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

You call what Jpop did, a "mistake?"

addtext_com_MTUzMjA1NDAwNzk.jpg

2 weeks later
#18193 3 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

What an unnecessary sideshow for Expo and for pinball if JPop shows (or sticks around, I guess). I hope he spares everyone the spectacle and embarrassment and slinks back to his shop.

Yeah, nobody here wants John to show up to Expo.

Except everybody! You friggin' kiddin? That would be awesome.

#18194 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I say let him walk.
Everybody talks a big talk on the internets, but I predict he would have no confrontations (although 200 people will now post some tough talk about what they will do when they see him).

Spot on. We all know this is how it would go down. And regardless of what everybody thinks - that there would be literally hundreds of people there who want to kill John - it's most likely a very, very small group of people who would even know what the kerfuffle is about.

1 week later
#18282 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It was 100% intentional fraud, maybe it started from day one, maybe not, but at some point, he simply chose to continue lying and bilking people out of $$$ to keep the evolving fraud going.
Maybe he thought he was Steve Jobs building the NEXT cube without an OS and somebody like Apple would come in and bail him out.
He tried to perpetuate this persona of the crazy mad scientist inventor that was doing groundbreaking and secretive pinball shit. And heaven forbid anybody question him and his big F ing EGO.
Right up until the bitter end people kept talking about treating him with "kid gloves".
As I look back, and thinking about my conversations with him, I simply view it as a stupid move on my part for letting the prick get by with the smokescreen for so long.
I'm out a lot less than most, $4500 ($1500 of which i sent in on AIW drunken euphoria stupidity), partly because I just refused to send in another dime when he would ask.
The fact that he didn't demand payment for progress was another tip off that he KNEW exactly what his game plan was. Let us dummies keep sending in funds all the while knowing the insufficient status of the progress.
Bottom line, a Shameless and worthless human being.

Were you actually drunk when you "got it on" Alice in wonderland and mailed that check?

1 week later
#18330 3 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Finally read up on this all. What a sad story. Though perhaps a very necessary one for the industry and community.
With regard to this being some kind of intentional fraud or not, I don't really get that vibe. He seems delusional and highly narcissistic. People with these traits, when they get into something, both praise and criticism, success and failure, it all adds to the disconnect between reality and the picture of it they have in their head. Inertia and diversionary behaviour also tends to increase exponentially, whereby they'll actually actively avoid working on anything and everything that matters, and instead focus on minute details and other bits that are totally irrelevant. We've all done it, mostly innoccuously ... whether it's clearing up the spare room or procrastinating endlessly when studying. He was doing it with something vastly more complicated, costly and involving far more trust. JPop clearly wasn't cut out to be a project manager and seemingly lacks any kind of self awareness or self knowledge.
He doesn't seem like a bad guy, just a total failure in the endeavour he shaped, and one that he never should have been allowed to go beyond that of a creative director in. This isn't just his failure though. It was the buyers, the people he employed and the community at large. Hindsight is 20:20, but there were alarm bells, lights flashing and klaxons whirring pretty much from the beginning.
Whilst people's money may be mostly or entirely lost, looking over everything, I think there is a reasonable chance of something coming out of this. If John's hands can be prised off the assets, there should be a reasonable chance of one of the companies acquiring the art and music assets For Magic Girl at the very least. All 3 themes were very strong and the IPs very well liked. Certainly I imagine ZombieYeti would like to get paid for all his work ...

Nothing will ever possibly come of this. Whomever took over the project would basically be starting from scratch so why bother.

1 month later
#18409 3 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

After further review of the Vancouver riot, it was determined that there were many Americans present, double dog.....no triple dog daring us into this kinda behavior. and if you know anything about a triple dog dare well then......
Canucks loosing didn't cost me a dimer so gonna have to go with B....MG

Didn't you guys host a genuine old-school Guns n' Roses no-show riot back in the day?

8 months later
#19130 2 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Hilton
Come on, buddy. Give the "buddy" thing a rest
The ONLY time I spent with John was 20 hours to help Bill alBrandes and pdxmonkey get the damn my to the NE show. Some appreciated the effort , nobody accused me of being part on Johns scheme or his buddy except you.
I've got friends who got screwed - and many pinball people here that needed help - that's it - give it a rest.
I have seen Or heard from John after that 20 hour blitz - I got no pay - it was volunteer -

It was a valuable service because - if anything - it finally put this project out of its mystery. When people saw that sad thing at the show, I think people finally realized that this thing was never going to happen. Probably saved even more people from throwing their money away.

#19237 2 years ago
Quoted from investingdad:

Pinball built in China?
Dear Lord...that's going to make any QC issues at Stern look like child's play.
My air hockey table was built in Texas and my pool table is an Olhaussen from Tennessee...there's a reason they cost twice as much as the Chinese counterparts but with fewer frills. Because both will look and play the same in twenty years rather than be in a landfill.
Chinese pinball...pass.

I'm pretty sure the King of Diamonds remake was manufactured in China.

By most accounts that project was a failure but I think the games turned out pretty well/reliable.

#19244 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

This reminds me of a James Bond movie (Roger Moore era) where both Bond and his adversary both know exactly who each other are but are playing along with each other during some encounter at a casino or something .

That's all of them.

4 weeks later
#19584 2 years ago
Quoted from hardware:

One reason people preordered MG was due to it being a limited release and the machine would most likely hold its value if not increase in value.
I'm guessing Houdini is a MG re-theme.
I don't recall the price of MG, but I was thinking around 16K?
Are MG owners who paid that high price going to be happy with a game that now has a brother?
The price shouldn't be that high if many of the parts will be mass produced.

At this point, "happy" is a relative term.

#19695 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Corny has always seemed a bit of a delicate flower. He'll probably be back.

Oh God I hope not.

But he'll be back. They ALWAYS come back.

#19703 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Great.
Wouldn't that be amazing if Magic Girl investors are rewarded with the first Pinball machine made and delivered from a China?

I believe the King Of Diamonds remake was made and delivered from China.

#19792 2 years ago
Quoted from MinusWorlds:

Def not Corn's fault. He did the best he could. The guy had like a day notice. He managed to get them to show him the game and take a pic, albeit not a very good pic. .

Was there any other "press" at this event?

Were actually any other people in the room besides American Pinball and Tim?

I'm genuinely curious as to what the actual scene was there.

#19860 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Boom! That's what i mean ice, we had nothing and it was done..
Now we have a chance?!

True.

But what happens if they ask you guys for more money? That was the plan on the previous failed bailout, remember?

4 weeks later
#20280 2 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

Scott worked with JPOP at Zizzle.
Scott knows JPOP's potential..

Zizzle?

Another success story. They tried selling that cardboard box of garbage for $400 and nobody bit. I remember at the end they were getting blown out at Best Buy for $50.

I can't imagine anybody made any money with that Zizzle project. John hasn't made anybody but himself any money in about 20 years now. But man can he sell a dream. And after all this time there's clearly still a healthy market of buyers.

10
#20282 2 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

Give it a rest already, Lightning Levi. You're a broken record. Everybody knows you know everything, give the other people a chance to talk.

LOL

You've made 45 posts in 8 hours and I'm not allowed to chime in? And you are gonna pretend that you haven't been absolutely DYING for me to respond to you? Cute.

I'm not picking a fight with you, just adding my two cents like everybody else. When I heard about Goldberg and the "Zizzle connection" I was puzzled, since wouldn't Scott know better?

I actually feel bad for you, Goatee Tim. I had NO idea you went to Vegas on your own dime, spending every last cent you had, to play the role of sucker in this dog and pony show. AP should be ashamed of themselves for taking advantage of you like that.

#20285 2 years ago

Never mind.

Too mean.

I'll let this (Edited Content) fight with someone else.

#20305 2 years ago

Cornelius needs a nap as much as he needs a job.

#20311 2 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Cornelius just got a permanent all forums eject in another thread, so won't be hearing anymore from him.

Oh thank god.

Again.

#20319 2 years ago

Jpop doesn't need a new job, he's got a great thing going.

The "fabulous box of blinking lights" thing pays pretty well and the it's still a seller's market apparently.

3 weeks later
#20389 2 years ago
Quoted from PinSinner:

Can someone tell me why in the hell they would make all those finished cabinets, before a game even existed? Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like the wrong way to go about it.
I would have assumed the cabinets and artwork would be the last thing to complete during the development of a pinball machine.

It's all part of the cruel ongoing joke that is Magic girl. This isn't the first time an empty cabinet has been presented as evidence of "progress" on this fiasco and
It likely won't be the last.

2 weeks later
#20430 2 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Bizarre, he's starting to do website updates again. He's claiming Magic girl is in production, and zombie and alice are in development. "In production" implies you are currently building them.
http://www.zidware.com/pinball.html

Honestly, it's like the guy just lives to torture these people (Zidware "owners")

1 month later
#20602 2 years ago

You'd have to be insane to fly Spirit. All I've ever heard are horror stories by people shocked that they have paid to make their own lives hell just to save 50 bucks by booking Spirit.

Don't do it.

1 week later
#20637 2 years ago

Cher, cockroaches...and apparently now, Jpop!

15
#20681 2 years ago

I would suspect the code on these games will be awesome, and all of the rough edges that rendered the game unplayable when last the public saw it will be ironed out.

This game will in no way be cobbled together and somehow pushed out the door to simply end the nightmare.

#20741 2 years ago
Quoted from ezeltmann:

This thread is not nearly as on fire as it should be. Flame on!

Honestly I think at this point, beyond the people who got ripped off, nobody really gives a shit and is just sick of it. We all know this game is gonna be terrible if it actually does ship, and people are just tired of the whole thing.

-3
#20754 2 years ago

I think I'd take the deal.

John did this the right way. That Predator moron you got dead to rights but you'll never get John, ever. Take what you can get.

#20818 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

99 regular
26 cointaker
Another screwed over vendor in six figure range
It will be interesting to see how these preferential payments to MG buyers play out with Raza and Aiw buyers when they realize they get nothing.
Involuntary bankruptcy filing? Kulek was voluntary. You can see how that is playing out

Again, people keep thinking they cab just hang this on Jpop personally when in fact people were giving money to a LLC. It's gonna be really tough to pull that off. This is a very different situation. Kulek was a total amateur who had no idea how to cover his ass, and Zidware was created in part to cover asses.

#20835 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

I have first person confirmation that the games exist - the photo that's been passed around is the American Pinball facility and John has been there for awhile working on the machines. There is at least 19 cabinets ready to go.
What I don't have is any confirmation of those cabinets containing a working playfield or any software. So, the only hard truth right now is there are 19 boxes ready to go to people that contain pinball parts of some description that may or may not light up when plugged in and turned on.

Well we saw the "19 cabinets photo" months ago...a couple years after the first pictures of cabinets started to surface. I was really hoping for a whole new round of cabinet photos but I also am starting to believe they somehow cobbled these things together into actual pinball machines that will - at least in the narrowest sense - function.

I know a guy a few blocks away from where I'm sitting who says he's getting one. So we'll all know soon enough I'm sure.

-1
#20843 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Do you know that you and the Zombie man are getting shafted? Has everybody who is getting one been contacted? If there are 19 people and they are making 20 something, maybe there is a machine in there for you guys....(hopeful)

I wonder if any of these dudes ever got it in writing that their "payment" was going to be a Magic Girl pinball machine.

#20861 2 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

Hearing that guy owning one is like extra Hershey squirts on this poop pie.
Wonder if he opens it up and takes it out of the box?

That's not very nice!

I don't know who you guys are talking about, but I'm looking forward to playing this game - or at least looking at it (who the hell knows if it will work) on Monday.

#20875 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

He paid $20k for it. Not sure if I believe $$ actually changed hands at the time because it was unbelievably stupid then, but he claims he actually did it
Maybe he can flip that box of lights for whatever? Guarantee you he's already trying to find a sucker to take it off his hands.

I'm clearing out room right now...who wants to buy a Robocop?

#20878 2 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

I read those threads too... While Dutch Pinball seems to be imploding, looks like Alien is shipping and is gonna be at TPF.

Dutch was shipping and went to a bunch of shows too.

#20882 2 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

Everyone here seems to know something about Dutch Pinball that I don't. Care to give some info?

Tits up.

#21002 2 years ago
Quoted from LoveNeverDiesGuy:

Just listened to a couple of eerie podcasts from this K person and what a waste. This person claims to be the reason why GnR put out Chinese Democracy, bought a Hell Cat, purchased a Magic Girl spot, speaks ill of pinball companies, tells other people what to do with their health and money regarding pinball, and wants others to get the mods to allow him back on pinside? This person has got to be going through menopause, midlife crisses, or both? Best to you if you are reading this, but I do not subscribe to your fake pinball news. The only saving grace is the guests that are interesting and have done something in the pinball industry.

You know, it probably is time to let "this person" come back here. I seriously thought his audience would dry up once he was gone and his promotion threads were killed here, but clearly a TON of people here still hang on his every word. People still respond to him here. So let him come back.

I mean he'd probably get banned again in a week but it's probably time to find out.

#21024 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

If Special K bought it for $20K as rumored, then that is where the benchmark is already. The issue here is until those 19 are delivered, we have ZERO clue, only speculation, as to whether or not it was a brilliant or stupid move.
We all know that I have ZERO love for Special K, but I will give credit where credit is due if MG actually turns out to be a player.

Yes, we all hate special K, don't want to discuss him, and don't listen to his podcast, except of course for everybody on pinside who can't stop discussing him or listening to his podcast, or issue actual live running commentaries here on his podcasts like people did last night. That aside, he claims he spent well over $20K on Magic Girl.

I have to agree with those who say this will be hugely and instantly collectable. You can't possibly compare it to BBB, which everybody has played and of which 10 times as many exist. Magic Girl truly is bulletproof - as others have stated, it's much like Ed-209. Who CARES if it works or not? It looks really cool, it's big, and it's expensive, and only 20 people on EARTH will have the opportunity to have one. I think it holds its value and - just like BBB - many will trade over face, at least at first. You think Special K (why the fuck are we calling him that?!) gives a shit if the game plays well? I don't think the dude can do a post pass. And there's plenty...PLENTY of dudes in the hobby (on pinside and not on pinside) who are just like that. Peter from Sunshine would kill for one of these and I'm sure he'll pay whatever it takes to get one.

It well could collapse in value, but for that to happen, there will need to be a collapse across the board. Welcome to the world of $5000 Magic Girls and $2500 AFMs...hey it could happen, right?

#21031 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Most pinheads will love to play it and check it out. After everyone gets a chance, then if it is a dog that is poorly built, it wont be worth much in the grand scheme. It surely wont go up in value. Not likely to drop as high end colectors have enough money to just let them sit rather than take a loss, but wont blow up either.

Of course it won't "blow up." There's not a lot of meat on the bone when the game is $16000....but we know at least one guy claims to have spent over $20,000 on one already so if that's true, someone has already turned a tidy profit and the game isn't even out yet.

I just really doubt it matters if it's a dog or not. Most Jpop games kind of suck and it hasn't really hurt their value. But this is a special case...this game could REALLY suck and it won't matter. Like you said, diplomatically, only time will tell if it stand the test of time (Thanks Sammy Hagar!)

#21037 2 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

If the game turns out nice it should be entered into the databases without JPop's name. It should have Artwork by ZY and Programming by Applejuice (real names of course).

I don't think you understand how databases are supposed to work. They aren't supposed to be subjective. You don't put "alternative facts" in a database just cause you don't like somebody.

OJ simpson is still in the record books and the Hall of Fame.

#21051 2 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Did I say anything that was not a fact? We know who did the artwork and we know who did the programming. There were many other people involved with this project and we don't know who did what for anything else involved. There seems to a lot of missing people getting credit.

You said you wanted the ipdb entry not to include Jpop's name. That's ridiculous and it would undermine the credibility of ipdb if they started making subjective, punitive calls like that. Pretending MG has nothing to do with Jpop would indeed be an alternative fact. Or not a fact. However you want to put it.

#21054 2 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Wow, speaking of facts. I did not say "the ipdb entry", I said "the database".
So for a person who wants to get persnickety about the facts you should get them right.

I'm persnickity about bullshit. Not a fan.

I just don't think it's productive or provides a service to pretend this isn't a Jpop game. Whichever "database" you are trying to bullshit is irrelevant.

#21057 2 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

It is a joke. Chill out.

So was my overblown, serious response! Get with the humor my man!

#21060 2 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

"gameplay videos " are just exactly what we've already seen at ne show -- a ball launch that appears to not shoot back to Playfield? Rest are just attract screen and skill level selection.. hmmmm right. You'd think if he got it working ok somehow that he'd want to show off the gameplay, riiiight?

I honestly do not remember...do any Jpop games have an autolauncher?

#21066 2 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Yes. That about covers it. The fact that both myself and zombieyeti have not been offered games is truly disgraceful

Did you guys get it in writing that a Magic Girl was going to be part of your payment?

#21086 2 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

Well this certainly took some backdoor ninja skills since the video container was broken and wouldn't play the video correctly but it looks like I was able to repair it and get this footage....
Ladies and gentlemen I present to you the best video we have of MG at this point. Enjoy
» YouTube video

Sweet flow!

#21195 2 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

For sale $50k magic girl pm for serious interest

I have only half-hearted interest so I'll just post here instead of PM.

#21276 2 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

He had a podcast this am as well. Synopsis.. he is 'hearing' (he doesn't have it yet) that it is basically the proto game from NW show replicated 18 more times. Doesn't really work.

We'll find out soon when he gets his. He's certainly saying that with conviction.

Meanwhile cointaker is desperately trying to flip theirs via auction on Facebook without posting ANY video. Certainly lends credence to the idea that it's an unplayable disaster. That brief clip that surfaced certainly doesn't instill confidence does it?

If the game were anything but dogshit don't you think they'd have posted 20 minutes of video by now? Certainly would juice the bidding, right?

#21284 2 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Should we continue to support Coin Taker and buy LED's, other mods etc. from them after they pulled the Iron Man crap and now this?

I don't really give a shit about that stuff. They want to flip and make $ good for them. You are buying leds from them, not friendship.

Honestly anybody who gets taken by buying a $20,000 magic girl without seeing any proof it actually works at this point...they probably don't care.

#21285 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

They sold an original run IM at the peak price right before Stern publicly announced the VE but after they privately informed the distributors like CT (that's my memory anyway). They made it right shortly after somehow. I don't hold that transaction against them personally.

As I heard last year..."that makes them smart."

#21289 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Yeah, just spoke to him to find out what's going on. He said…basic code, just like the one at the show. Ball hang ups, etc. But I'm sure a number of you pinball gurus can figure out how to make it work as long as all the mechs and stuff is in there……right?

Sure, if we all want to babysit these games and do hours and hours of free work just so somebody can try to flip magic girl.

If these games are really the useless piles of lights that Chris says they are, that's all they are ever going to be. A fitting but unsurprising end for this tale I'd say.

#21295 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I'd sooner quit pinball than contribute to validating Jpop's work.
It's pretty shameful that you are willing to reduce the wake he left behind down to a profit.

Words like "shameful" really get thrown around here too loosely.

At the end of the day it comes down to dollars and cents. Everybody involved in this project - everybody - thought they'd make money off of this. Greed and avarice abounds. "shameful" is a bit much.

If someone really wanted to pay me an ugodly sum to try to turn their MG into an actual working pinball machine, id consider it and Shame wouldn't be part of the equation

-5
#21303 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

That's you, not me. I wouldn't touch the machines. They are worth exactly $0 to me.

Well we can't all be you, saint wolfie.

How come the guys who say they are "owed" a free magic girl won't answer me when I ask if they got it in writing?

#21316 2 years ago

It's gotten kinda quiet...I guess all the lucky Magic Girl owners are locked down, playing the shit out of their sweet new machines!

-4
#21337 2 years ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

Just an idea but why don't the magic girl recipients chip in $500 each and pay directly to the programmer. Hire the programmer to finish the code. Hell if the programmer is willing, this is a no brainer decision.

That's a great idea that surely 30 others haven't already suggested.

I have a hunch the issues with this game go far beyond code.

#21563 2 years ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Listened to the podcast - honestly it seems like a box of shit.
Pictures make it look real pretty but is sounds unplayable

Even shit can be valuable.

I mean, if I had an actual piece of Elvis Presley's shit - authenticated - I bet it would be worth some cash.

So think of this game as Elvis' shit.

-7
#21565 2 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

If I were him, not a chance for a few reasons:
1) loses leverage on getting what's owed to him
2) given that it's not known the state of the game hardware, could damage the game
3) the installation could go poorly and 'brick' the game.

1) we all know he's never getting another cent, or the free game he never had in writing
2) who cares?
3) who cares?

If someone is willing to pay him money now he'd be a fool not to offer any and all assistance. A couple half-ass waivers from bobshapiro.com should take care of any liability concerns.

10
#21568 2 years ago

Pinside is so full of creepy stalker types it can be hard to keep track of them.

#21571 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

A few of them seem to like you.....

yeah, the day I send anybody unsolicited hate mail, emails, facebook messages, go after them at work, or write crazy blogs about pinside enemies you might have me there.

#21585 2 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

Isn't there some consumer protection law, or something along those lines, that can hold John accountable for misrepresenting the product that was delivered? While the game was shipped, it is no where near complete and seems like a bait and switch.

Good luck with that.

It's gonna be hard proving damages when the games are worth more than face value. What's a judge going to do, force AP to create a video mode?

This is the end of the Magic Girl story.

#21590 2 years ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

Sometimes I wish that this entire forum- its users, its news, the tech forums- all of it- could be seemlessly migrated to Facebook.
There- we would have all the information, news, tips- but none of the senseless soap opera that seems to follow pinball newgroups and forums.

That's a really good idea, cause nobody ever argues or trolls on Facebook.

#21598 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

The biggest loss has been the fact that these hyper-posting and consistently controversial Pinsiders have driven away a ton of quality folks in the pinball world. That is something that will probably never be regained on this site.

Huh?

Isn't membership higher here than ever before?

I do agree with your concept though. "Ignore" those you simply can't stand, and remove thumb downvotes from what you see if this stuff aggravates you.

#21627 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Oh you too huh?
Well lets put it this way, I could have just called Special K an asshole. But I figured that would offend too many more on their politically correct crusades. Or maybe asshole is too fitting for some people.
Seriously, any of you that want to get on a soapbox with this offensive stand because I am using the term "special" ought to go get your heads examined.

That's really not fair. Do you have any "special" family members? If you did you'd probably suddenly drop the social injustice warrior stance on this.

#21631 2 years ago
Quoted from PoMC:

I saw that pic with the exposed spring too, but I figured I must be not understanding it.

It's pretty hilarious.

I also love how the game has "believe!" written all over it. The machine beggars disbelief, that's for sure!

Extra props for the Fast Eddie cameo pics!

#21638 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Wow... that game looks stunning! Too bad it's a brick... I'm guessing that someone is going to end up coding this thing to life.

Why do you guess that?

The game likely has issues far beyond code. Shit isn't hooked up or is missing. There are exposed springs on the playfield. This game probably needs a year or so of attention in a r/d environment. You aren't going to be able to simply download some code to fix everything. And that's before the playtesting.

10
#21660 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Not fair my ass! Let me put all you cupcakes in your due places. My Dad's sister, my Aunt, is a slow adult, mentally handicapped, a special person, and in medical terms a retard(boo fucking hoo if you don't like it). She has been part of my life for the 45 years I have been put on this Earth. I have the right to be judgemental of what is offensive and what is not pertaining to her conditions. Not a bunch of daisy growing pansy ass hand holders who are threatened by obtuse words in the English language.
My best friend Kevin in High School had a brother name Ted(R.I.P. buddy) who had down syndrome and was mentally handicapped. Our favorite line was 'Yeah, well that fucking retard will kick your ass" to anyone who made fun of him to his face. Ted would go right up to them and stutter "I'm a retard and I'm gonna kick your ass!" Then turn to Kevin and go "Now Kevin??" You would watch those little bitch tough guys go running the other way.
So all you little whining butt hurt tree huggers that are offended, go pound sand because 99% of you are offended for reasons that have nothing to do with you personally!

You must be a lot of fun at a party.

#21667 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Just add bourbon.
Is that the best you got after I just demonstrated you to be 100% wrong?

I was 100% wrong that having "special" people in your family might allow you some insight into why some others are offended by your language.

#21674 2 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

I see coin door with mechs but no coin box can't even use it as a proper piggy bank.

A small bedpan will work fine.

#21687 2 years ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Who the hell seriously expects Jim to provide more code for this thing when he was already screwed over majorly. To even ask such a thing is asinine. #getjimhisgame

I expect it, actually, if the people who own this game are willing to pay him up front. Why wouldn't he? A gig is a gig...and the lucky MG owners obviously have some cash to throw around and are real doers, not just talkers!

I figure this game needs a lot more than just updated code however. Unless you can download a shooter lane groove and other mechanical/geometry fixes.

#21696 2 years ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

Paying up front is totally different than simply requesting more code, and yes a gig is a gig, but again get the man a machine (which he is contractually owed) so he would be able to do the code properly for those willing to pay for it.

No more games are getting made and you know it so you can retire the hashtag. But if there's some money to be made from sinking more time and effort into this insane project, Jim should be at the front of the line.

#21744 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Just got some news from Chris.
Arcade Mode works.
The machine can do 4 players.
It's got plenty of music and callouts,
An Owl hooted!
Gameplay Video being worked on now.

I will say this, Chris is getting his money's worth.

We are gonna be getting little dribs and drabs of video and info for weeks I would guess.

Unless someone else opens up the flood gates. There's gotta be a few more of these out there somewhere....

#21746 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

...and we Will Like it,. and pay homage too!

True enough!

-2
#21839 2 years ago

Have we already reached the point of diminishing returns on Magic Girl?

A bunch of new video, and not even a full page of new posts?

VD 'o Jack's "There's nothing more noble than making fun of retards and I am friends with retards so it's ok if I do it" debate catching more fire than Magic Girl talk?!

I don't know, that's not a lot of ROI for $20K plus.

#21843 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Wait a minute....where did I EVER say it's noble or even OK to make fun of a retarded person? Now you are just full of it! You got caught in a completely false accusation, proven wrong, and now you want twist my words? You sir are the problem.

Relax dude. Lighten up. We are just joking around here. Stop being so sensitive and politically correct.

besides, we are talking about Magic Girl here. It's got like...ramps and a spinner!

#21847 2 years ago

It's actually good news that the coin mechs work. I think we'll be seeing these all over on location soon.

#21868 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Please lets be clear on this. This is not an American Pinball product. This is a Zidware / Popaduik machine 100%. AP only produced the parts per Zidware design. And for whatever reasons AP is now distancing themselves from Zidware/Popaduik.
Anything found good or bad about this machine is the sole responsibility of Zidware and Jpop.

Correct. Nobody seems to understand that.

There seems to be very little, if any, difference between these completed machines and the original prototype.

-6
#21905 2 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

I want my own game, here in the UK. Simple.

good luck with that

#21913 2 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

4 pages later, and you guys are still going at that?
I can't speak for everyone, but holy cow, take it to PM. Let folks talk about MG here.

OK, let's talk about it. What do you have to say about MG?

#22042 2 years ago

"someone" should invite a decent player or two over to his hovel so we can actually see if there's more to this game than there appears to be.

#22065 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I was gonna squawk about this earlier today.
I thought you were invited to play his Magic Girl. Podcast boy has done a great job of revealing the machine but its your review that I really want to hear. I'd be very disappointed if he reneged on that offer to you.

Let's just say he has my number and my phone hasn't been ringing.

Considering that in about a week he's no longer gonna have a monopoly on the "willing to share MG with pinside" industry, he should get a skilled player over there while anybody still cares. Time is running out for him to get any more return on his investment.

#22095 2 years ago

This Jpop business of him whining about people stealing his ideas is absolutely ridiculous. The first time I played TOTAN I thought it was cute how he was paying respect to the same crappy Triple Action I had at home with the spinner. And I remember playing Gusher at the same show where I played CV for the first time.

He's certifiably out of his mind.

#22100 2 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Serious question - and not meant to be taken as a defense of Jpop or go off topic, but a sincere inquiry: At what point does an "homage" or "inspiration", even a subtle or subconscious one END, and "full credit originality" BEGIN?
The timing of this JPOP tangent is interesting, since last night while trolling the local Craigslist I saw a listing for a project '67 Jolly Roger. I'd never seen or heard of the game, so I took a look...

I'm not seeing it dude. There's like a million EMs with that kind of layout and none of them remind me of Firepower. There are so many differences between the FP and Roger layouts that it would be silly to make a list.

#22103 2 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Well obviously there's a lot of differences. 2" flippers, lower voltage (slower) coils, and the bottom no-inlane layout.... for starters. I get it.
But then it's like 1979 and you're making a game for MODERN (at that time) players and what they expect: faster balls, the hip Italian bottom, more stuff to shoot at. You're going to do this in the new Solid State platform of course and OOOH - you have a big idea to add multiball because that hasn't been done in a solid state game yet...
So let's say you start R&D by taking "one of a million EMs designs like Jolly Roger" and reworking it to fit those requirements...
...I obviously can't prove it. But the similarities are there to my eye. Take it step further, if Firepower were made today we'd expect it to be evolved with ramps and a fan layout in addition to a DMD. Mark Ritchie attempted the former in 1983.
Everything builds upon what came before it to some extent, is what I'm saying. So where do you declare a true "innovation" these days?
I agree that little about Magic Girl seems truly innovative as a single piece or part. The same could be said of many games outside of silly toys. So does an innovative / original game exist via its overall execution? Clever rules? The intangible "sum" of standard parts? Or one or two new gee-whiz crazy toys which themselves only amount to a small percentage of a game?
I'm just fascinated by the design aspects of pinball, really. So many fixed points and intangibles to consider.

I feel like we are going in circles here.

Games that remind me of Firepower? T2 comes to mind.

Games that don't? Jolly Roger.

But hey maybe you are right. Just ask Steve Ritchie, he'll probably tell you.

#22118 2 years ago

It's too bad that upper playfield doesn't do anything or work. It could have been a signature feature of this game.

At this point, I figure one day these games will be done. I mean, we've seen Firepowers with drop targets, the Dredd production mod...if people are willing to throw enough time and money at this they'll be able to complete their game.

It's probably years off though.

#22122 2 years ago
Quoted from stevevt:

Was just about to post the same thing.

Well you are both right.

Kaneda forgot to put it in "one way gate" test mode.

Screen Shot 2017-02-23 at 10.49.36 PM (resized).png

#22127 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

What the hell is that?
Chris said he tried to follow what Applejuice said….

That's not a switch. It's a gate. There's no switch attached to it so you shouldn't expect wires, or for it to work in test mode.

When you are in a switch test you need to find switches to test, not gates.

So what does that right rollover switch do on the right orbit? Shouldn't that light your power letters?

#22162 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

From Chris:
In response to Applejuice's statement here:
So, regarding the power playfield feature. I think we need to check the rear of the swirl ramp in greater detail. There should be a switch mounted on there somewhere and also a diverter of some kind to allow the ball to enter the upper playfield instead of continuing up the ramp.
This switch is the one we now need to check in arcade game play as to whether that progresses the POWER lamps. Please also pay attention to what the screen says after switch hits. If it shows the messages under the score i posted earlier then we are good. If not then its time to get the 'fix this' list out..
"Thank you Jim for all of you efforts. Not ideal to be chasing answers without a game in front of you. So I think I can put an end to this Magna Flipper chase once and for all. Switches and lighting POWER do not matter. After stepping back and just studying the ramp and the mech it's clear as day: there is absolutely no way for the ball to be diverted from the left ramp into the upper Magna Flip playfield.
There is one diverted located on the upper right portion of the clear ramp. This diverter works. The ball either goes up the ramp with the diverter open which lets the ball loop around the front of the ramp and then drops the ball down the left squiggly ramp return to left flipper. If the diverter is closed the ball goes down the right squiggle ramp to the right flipper. There is absolutely no entrance to the Magna Flip playfield from the left ramp.
HOWEVER there is one entrance to the Magna Flip playfield. Through the hole in the middle of that playfield. Yes, the ball can enter that playfield from UNDERNEATH it. Which makes sense now because that explains why there is a diverter flap (black plastic flap) that covers the whole ABOVE the Magna Flip playfield. If the ball continued UP that whole it would reach the Mystic Ring Magnet which sits at the very top of the whole mech (right under the Genie's head).
Originally it seems John wanted the ball to be fired from the playfield UP through one hole (magna flip level) and then through another hole (mystic ring capture) where it would be suspended inside a magnet. Looks like he ditched that seemingly impossible shot and decided to make the coil shoot the ball up through one hole, hit the black plastic flap and fall into the Magna Flip playfield.
I think what this means Jim is new code is needed to make the Magna Flip entrance come from the coil shot on the playfield, not a ramp diverter. This all makes sense now why John contacted you back in November to help out. He had made chances to the mech so that it could work but had nobody to code in the new approach.
Good news is this...I think the center mech will 75% work...which is fine. John only needed to have the ball go in 3 different directions to make the game fun. Just like TOTAN. Ball can go left, right, or into the GENIE fireball throw. With MG, it looks like the ball can go left, right, and be fired up into Magna Flip area...that would make for a fun mech. He really bit off more than he could chew and tried to make too much happen in one area of the game. Hence the mountain mech that blocks half the screen and still will never physically work."
If any of you have any more questions I'm happen to make more videos going over stuff. Your obedient servant...CK

I admire his confidence, but I really don't think it's that simple.

I'm just a mechanical grunt - but even *I* know that when I do something as simple as a repair on a pinball mech, I have literally NO idea if the mech is going to work properly until I test it. Half the time, it doesn't, and I'll need to take it apart, adjust it, etc. Sometimes it takes many tries (just went through this with a THING hand).

My point?

there is no way in hell they can just throw some magic in the code and expect this Battle the Power ripoff to work in any manner as it was designed. It's never been tested. It's never been played.

By the grace of god, you may somehow get the ball to go up there. But from there? Yikes.

I am interested in whether or not there are actually magnets hooked up to that upper playfield.

#22170 2 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

No offense, and I know he's trying, but I would take anything with a grain of salt from someone who confused a ball gate with an unwired switch.

Yeah, I'm thinking we will get much better diagnosis and results once the game shows up in London next week.

14
#22181 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Sadly it will be a few days yet.
Although my MG was picked up on 22nd, Jpop neglected to supply the paperwork (invoice etc)
So today (2 days later) I phoned AP and s/w Dhaval Vasani himself. He said John was out for lunch

LOL

JPOP is out to lunch alright.

#22352 2 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

Trying to dump it before everyone knows it's just a box of blinking lights with bolted-on flippers.
With the recent death of Bill Paxton (Game Over Man), I'd put my money on Bill Paxton pinball. It's much rarer, works 100%, and everything skyrockets posthumously.

I'm pretty sure EVERYONE knows exactly what this game is at this point. I doubt some civilian is gonna just stumble upon that auction and buy it for $20K +.

I think this thing will sell and the seller will profit handsomly. There's a couple "MG wanted" posts here.

#22447 2 years ago

I love the philosophizing going on about this insane phenomena...but bottom line, somehow they made 20 or so of these things...they are basically half-finished project machines, and a handful of people are willing to spend insane money on 'em.

I really can't explain it and neither can you. I guess it just shows how crazy the very top end of this hobby is right now, but I don't think it really relates to anything else. Doesn't have anything to do with any other game or manufacturer, trends in the hobby or industry, or anything else.

Basically, it's just some crazy shit. I hope whomever ponies up the cost of a nicely-loaded Toyota gets some enjoyment out of their investment.

#22489 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Ice isn't calling for 200 more. He is calling for 30 more (55 in total then).
Doubling even from 25 of them to 50 of them is going to have little impact on secondary market. When Stern can sell 80 BM66SLE in no time flat then it seems there are plenty of collectors/ uber collectors willing to take up the extra stock of 25 more of these.
With some owners stating secondary flips of 30k plus, I am pretty sure Jpop has no legal obligation to hold fast at 25 built (heck he already increased that number 2x in the past). This honestly seems like the simplest way for him to put this all behind him and extricate himself form the mess he got in.
I would guess there is zero legal reason for him not to make 25 more and slowly leak them out over time. He could even do so and not disclise it to anyone.

Just because there's 80 people willing to pay $15K for an actual working "limited" pinball machine doesn't mean there's 25 willing to pay $16k or more for a project game with no shooter lane groove. I really do think it's hard to compare the two things. I mean...there's a Batman SLE on Route in brooklyn for god's sake. It's a real, bona fide, actual pinball machine in every sense. I don't think you could stick a Magic Girl in a bar and expect to function as an actual working commercial pinball machine for even 20 minutes.

We'll never know I would bet. Jpop is once again a man without a country and I'm 100 % positive he'll never have anything to do with pinball production again!

(that of course is at least half a joke. Jpop is the Cher of pinball)

#22493 2 years ago

I wonder what that Kardboard KISS machine he made (complete with the scabs on the artwork) would fetch. I mean, it's only slightly less playable than MG. And you'd get the KISS Army bidding on it, and those guys will pay thousands of dollars for a Kiss RC van toy. Anybody see that thing lately?

#22496 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Didn't that go to a sick friend/family?

Yeah. And my dad gave the misbehaving dog to a kindly farmer.

#22526 2 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

How many Baywatches are there out there?

A shitload. I've seen tons of them.

No production DE, sega, or Stern has been produced in fewer numbers than BBB.

#22686 2 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

Hey cereal man don't believe everything you hear. A one way gate with switch. Good talk with VDOJAQ maybe if you do enough talks you can cure yourself of that narcissistic disorder.

Yet another feature stolen by Jpop from a classic Williams!!!

#22713 2 years ago
Quoted from ShinyNick:

Here is my first day testing report on my MG #006 that I picked up from John on Feb 28, 2017. Bear in mind that there are many issues here right out of the box. This machine is not playable yet due to ball hangup issues. I consider all 19+2 MG machines to be prototypes and from what I have seen here and from looking at other peoples’ pics and videos for their MGs I suspect that each machine is different in some ways. I hope this info will assist other owners and I’m very curious if they share these issues.
When I picked up from John I asked him the following:
Does Multiball work? “No”
Is it a code issue only? “Yes” (I don’t think this is true…)
Does the magnaflip playfield work? “Yes”
Does the magnetic “hare” bumper work or do we need to add a magnet under the playfield? “Yes you have to add the magnet and this an optional mod. The code is working for the magnet. I will send you the specs for the magnet. There are several optional mods that will be available and I will publish the info online.”
Setup and Issue Photos:
https://goo.gl/photos/HjHDVdKRqYXHxWFh8
Playfield Issues and notes on my machine:
-Ball hangup issue on ramp beside diverter – ball hits closed diverter and gets stuck behind yellow post. I’m guessing there used to be a lock mech here. May have to install another post to alleviate this… note that ball hangs up here on every ramp shot!
-Ball cannot clear under ramp diverter – there is not enough room when diverter is opened. May have to install spacers to raise diverter mech slightly. This diverter fires in COIL TEST but I have not seen it fire in a game.
-Ball hangup on right ramp return to right inlane – ball does not fit through hole. Need to adjust ramp and metal piece
-Tesla skill shot – only one opto switch installed and this switch was installed with two sided tape so that the opto LEDs were sticking into the ball path where the ball smashes into them! Need to install spacers for the Opto PCB.
-Spinning disc and centre flipper up post are not flush with playfield and are on an angle – will adjust
-Main plunger shot not hitting hard enough due to plunger gauge metal keeping ball too far from plunger when at rest. My game included a second shooter gauge with graphics on it – I will install to see if problem alleviates. EDIT – installed new gauge, looks nicer but is exact same size. Need a longer shooter rod… will try shorter barrel spring on outside or other measures.
-Center Floating Spinner (jinx Spinner) works but spinner occasionally STRIKES opto LEDs! – must adjust opto PCB mounting so that there is more ball clearance.
-There may be some switch matrix issues – ball trough opto column 7 switches all light up in switch test whenever column 6 switches are triggered (in switch test). EDIT this may be some weirdness with the Switch test itself – curious if other MG machines exhibit this behavior. Did not notice any trough switch errors while playing.
-Saucer kickout is too strong – ball smashes into Spinning lamp plastics directly above. Maybe missing a deflector?
-Spinning lamp assembly has already fallen apart from testing (and crazy saucer kickout)… will need to modify the 3D printed parts to make it spin smoother
-Ramp entry switch mount is only on one side and is not secure – need to figure out a way to secure from both sides of ramp.
One of the head hinge bolts is loose! – Tightened.
-LCD screen does not have any protective plastic over it and circular ramp is too close and actually touches screen – will to try to move it back… needs a plastic shield over the screen like CV has.
-While testing the machine seemed to CRASH and lock up on me once – cycled power and now machine booted but nothing on LCD… after a few more power cycles it started up ok. Will monitor this behaviour
Coil Issues/ Results from COIL TEST in TEST menu:
Right Magna Flip fires as Left Magna Flip
Left Magna Flip (14) fires as Right Magna Flip
Mystic Ring magnet (29) fires as Box Air Magnet (30) (Possibly re-tasked coil assignment)
Box Air magnet (30) doesn’t fire anything
Bagatelle Popper (31) fires saucer – NOTE this saucer kickout hole fires too hard and shoots ball straight up smashing into spinning genie lamp plastics
Diverter Up Post (11) fires Knocker in head – (Possibly re-tasked coil assignment)
Wand Grab left (12) does nothing
Wand Grab Right Fires Diverter on circular ramp
Left Magic Lock (16) doesn’t do anything
Right Magic Lock doesn’t do anything
(I’m Guessing the Magic Lock coils were the ramp locks for multiball in the protos)
Hare Jet (19) does nothing – needs magnet installed under playfield – connector is there labelled “Hare Jet” for future addition
Magic Mirror (23) does nothing?
Hare Spinning Disc (24 and 25) does nothing… is this a feature that was removed?
Jinx Wheel motor (26) works – mine turns clockwise
Lion Saw Motor (27) does nothing – needs motor/upgraded assembly…
Magna Hare (9) works – magna save above right inlane
Playfield Diverter (10) works – diverts between full left orbit shot or diverts to kings chamber from top
Switch Issues
Ramp Entry switch not working (FIXED - was disconnected under playfield)
Missing Saw 1 Switch - mod/upgrade needed
Tesla Skill 2 (63) One sided opto switch is working but no other Tesla opto switches are installed that I can see – there is a hole for one other opto pair…
“Lead Coin” standup target fires as “Jack Mystery” switch # 48
Playing Notes:
-This machine does not go into ball search so far (Like Kaneda’s does in his videos)– missing this feature?
-The spring under the Magnetic Bumper cap is an actuator for a switch which is working.
-Right orbit shots do not light POWER letters to enable magna flip mini playfield… I did notice that you can enable the magnaflip by centre shots (to be confirmed) … the saucer magnet DID grab the ball but the VUK would not shoot the ball up to the mini playfield to start the mode… NOTE: it looks like all hardware is there to enable magna flip mini playfield. There are no targets to shoot at (as described by Jim) but there is a rear exit shot that goes to another small metal ramp that feeds into a another mini playfield above the pop bumpers. Then it looks like the ball falls through a hole and into the pops area.
-The levitating ball feature works but I can’t get the ball to levitate “above” the magnet as described… it hovers inside the square magnet assembly thus far. Also note that the blue standup target that activates this feature is on a 45 degree angle does not actuate reliably – will need some adjustments.
Other issues and observations:
-Code version is 0.7.24 – this is different than what Jim reports on magicgirlcode.org which is 0.7.11
-My machine was missing the two head bolts but included a WPC style rear latch assembly – but I’m not sure how the latch can be used safely with this cabinet with a neck beneath the head – will find some suitable head bolts…
-Are there different playfield versions? My center drain post is labelled “The Magic Post” but I’ve seen others online labelled ”Theatre of Magic Post”…
The large “?” insert in front of the Scoop looks like it was cut out later as an afterthought. You can see a previous insert labelled “Arthur’s Magic” or something like that underneath.
-Can’t find free play setting… have to actuate coin switches to add credits.
-“Wizard” playing mode does not function
-My “evil winking genie” plastic at the top of the mini playfield stack is mounted with 2 screws and two small spacers. This differs from Kaneda’s video which shows this plastic mounted on two springs.
-The data ribbon cable coming out of the computer case in bottom of cabinet has no slot cut out so we have to be careful not to “shear off” ribbon cable if computer box is fully tightened! My box came with only 2 of 4 thumbscrews installed on the cover and they were very loose to accommodate ribbon cable.
-The original left and right ramp lock mechs will be needed to make the main multiball mode function. Can they be added?
-The “impossible” standup switch under the left ramp does indeed look impossible to hit! It lights the ball save for either outlane.
-The power switch is on the rear of the machine… use a power bar!
-My 3D owl was facing backwards like others. You can turn it to face forward easily

Thanks! Very informed and inquisitive review. Nice to have one of these in the hands of someone with technical curiosity and background.

This entire enterprise is so incredibly strange but I guess it couldn't have ended any other way. I'm sure you and the other MG owners are anxiously holding your breath waiting for Zidware to start producing and offering "optional mods."

I wonder if that's the only shirt John owns these days?

#22727 2 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

Un-f'ing-believable.

These "mods" are never going to get made or sold by Jpop. Any kind of modding (finishing up this game) is going to fall to the community of owners. I have no doubt that enough money and time can turn these games into actual functioning pinball machines, and maybe even full-featured as they were actually designed.

#22746 2 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

It's over already?
ebay.com link » Magic Girl Pinball Machine

I don't think anybody actually expected that auction to finish.

#22769 2 years ago
Quoted from pinlink:

It's a shame that such a good designer (I think we would all agree that JPOP is an extremely talented designer), will probably never design another game that will actually be finished and delivered.
He will spend years now talking about how he is working on getting RAZA and AIW out the door. If he had let people help him along the way, who knows, maybe this would've all worked out and he could be doing what he does best..designing!
It's clear that he can't build and deliver a completed game by himself. Just wish that he could focus on design and let the experts finish out his ideas and deliver games in the future.
This whole thing has tarnished his reputation though, and now he will focus on correcting that (by "working on RAZA and AIW"), instead of designing awesome games that could actually be built.
What a waste of talent.

That's great in principle but how would it ever happen?

Stern obviously had no interest in him, and for good reason. They didn't survive by hiring unmanageable lunatics who don't understand the concept of BOM or deadlines. Enough former Williams guys were there to keep that from happening I'm sure.

#22861 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Why so pissy?
The point was if you make an interesting enough financial case... there is incentive to do things... regardless of any emotional or past issues.
Do you really think Dhaval V. has some emotional attachment to pinball? Or is it simply a business venture.. whose intent is to drive business and opportunity for the parent company?
If JJP could sell a game for 25k, don't you think he'd be tripping over himself to get it out?

I think he's a bored rich guy who is doing this to kill some time and I doubt he expects to turn an actual profit anytime soon. I don't think dealing with Jpop hassles (and there are a ton of potential ones from community wrath, legal issues, and just the maddening reality of dealing with Jpop himself) for some kind of "get rich quick" scheme on churning out a few more MGs is going to be too appealing to him, that's not really what this is all about. Pretty small potatoes for a guy like DV, and not a long-term plan that makes any kind of sense.

#22891 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Phew what a day. MG arrived late morning, and is now set up and 'working'. I'll continue the pre-flight check tomorrow.
Martin is reviewing MG next Tuesday
For the first time I kept the box a pinball came in. Is this really necessary, or would just the cardboard panel that contains the serial number etc be adequate? It's a lot of cardboard! Also kept the foam/cardboard pieces for now. What is the etiquette for this for rare games? Space is my main challenge and reason for asking...

Try putting the box on eBay and see how you do!

#22978 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

I find his games somewhat remedial and repetitive. However, I think his visual aesthetic is one of the best in the industry. But I think his best work has always been when he was put on a short leash. When he wasn't, he appears to be a disaster.
It bothers me how everybody is willing to give him most of the credit when everything great he ever did was as part of a solid team. Everything he did when he called most of the shots, didn't achieve much success, if not unravel into a complete mess.

I'm gonna agree with you. I NEVER thought, 15 years ago..."gee, I hope Stern brings in some fresh Popaduik!"

I was always hoping they'd bring back Steve Ritchie.

But JPop? I mean...neat games. I always loved TOM and it's still my favorite of his. But this is not a designer with a long track record of games I love...Ritchie, Lawlor, hell even Barry Ouersler. The fascination with him didn't really seem to start till 5 years ago when all the fresh meat came in. They certainly are great "collector" games but you are right on the money in that they almost never turn up in tournaments.

#22982 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

WCS is a JPOP game I see quite often in tournaments, but the others yes.

True. And that's the game that was taken away from him and finished by steve Ritchie and others. Because he was a "stubborn newbie."

#23023 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Martin reviewed MG for 6 hours today for PN
Pinball News gameplay video is up:
» YouTube video

Exhilarating.

#23031 2 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

not much going on with the display, which I guess make sense since you can't see it. You get that nice art, but it is basically static images as backgrounds and then the info is displayed in the box which is the same size and form factor of a traditional DMD. Using flash was an odd and questionable choice and the results bare that out. Looks most, if not all, of the dynamic info is only in the 'small display overlay'.
Shots seems limited and repetitive. As others have said most shots seem to go no where or do much. So many 'toys' and none seem to do much.
Just goes to prove you can't just throw a ton of stuff (most of it recycled from other games). on a playfield and think it will be a good game.
Sad thing is there are home-brew games that were done in less time and are superior.

Yeah but you are judging this as if it's an actual game rather than something that appears to be, at most, 25 percent finished, from design, mechanics, sound, rules, animations...it's an impossible game "review" and I eagerly await the inevitable 10,000 word Pinball News review of this thing. How in the hell are they gonna come up with more than a paragraph?

It's Pinball News. They will find a way.

#23081 2 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

Isn't the only value of MG really just its rarity? Sure it looks nice but do we really need to try to make more of a JPOP box of lights?

The lucky owners of these games can pour as much money as they want into trying to turn them into actual working games. The idea that any "crowdsourcing" would go beyond that immediate crowd is fairly laughable.

#23124 2 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

Well it's clear MG wouldn't have been built without RAZA/AIW funds. RAZA and AIW won't be built. If I were a RAZA buyer you bet your ass I'd be seeking a clawback. JPOP admitted insolvency over a year ago but instead of winding down the business and prioritizing creditors he conned American Pinball into making MGs. That con won't work twice.

It's really not clear that MG was funded by the other games. John paid himself for years. He built a stupid KISS proto. He bought lavish dinners. He went to the movies. The way MG actually turned out doesn't reflect some massive investment of other people's money.

The MG people can sleep at night as it's clear as little money as possible was invested in it.

10
#23165 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

Don't get stuck with the hot potatoe

3cdfdafdefba7833e90cdc9febb3d954 (resized).jpg

1 week later
#23237 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

And who is going to boast on here how much they paid for these games? It just makes you a lightning rod..

I kinda feel like what's the point of buying one of these games if nobody knows about it?

4 weeks later
#23407 2 years ago

I kinda hope popaduik bids this one up and wins it!

1 week later
#23459 2 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

Yep. I will personally be giving my deposition shortly via remote video conferencing.
Can't wait to voice my mind and the reality of this shit show.

May I remind you sir, you are under oath!

5 months later
#23724 1 year ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

I guess Applejuice never got a loaner Magic Girl to work on the coding? That's too bad. It would have been a bit of a happier ending if he at least got to play the game for a few months after all the work he put into it.

Nobody is allowed to play Magic Girl, ever.

It's kind of like a guilded prison without bars.

I really thought these would hold/gain value but at this point I'm starting to doubt it. Nobody wants these things, they are simply ridiculous. I'd say the odds of them ever getting "finished" are extremely remote at this point.

#23727 1 year ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Well, I agree. The code will never get finished if he doesn't get a game (or loan of a game) to work with.
There was a UK owner that said he was going to loan him the game a while back. Guess that never happened.

How could the Juice even attempt to finish the code when the game doesn't work?

Before that undertaking could be considered a considerable amount of engineering and design work would have to be done. Seems pretty hopeless to me - the only people with a stake in this are the owners. They'd have to commission this or do the work themselves, I doubt there's gonna be anybody interested in doing any of that for free for them.

4 weeks later
#23776 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I know a guy when you are in Madison next time...

Really? You know a guy who sells crack laced with PCP, in a joint dipped in raw industrial ether?

1 month later
10
#23859 1 year ago
Quoted from VDrums2112:

They muse have some kind of impressive plan for Dennis Nordman to sign on.

Remember when Zidware was the real deal cause Jpop signed on?

Remember when Dutch Pinball "have their shit together!" because Roger Sharpe was drawing a paycheck?

Remember when Heighway had it locked down cause Barry and Dennis were involved?

3 months later
#24070 1 year ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

I am not at all thrilled that Jpop is working at Deeproot, however, that job might be the ONLY source of recovery for those that won their cases. ?

I don't know man. OJ Simspon has paid off like $50,000 of his $32 million civil judgement over 20 years.

It's just a piece of paper. It's up to the plaintiffs to get the guy to pay up.

So who knows. It's nice that Jpop lost but it could just end up a moral victory. I certainly wouldn't suppose any money Deep Root pays him goes straight to the people he screwed.

1 week later
#24122 1 year ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Approximately 1200 units among all versions. That's a huge failure.

It is?

In 2018?

3 months later
#24192 11 months ago

"Future Worlds Seminar"....

featuring a bunch of dudes who haven't made a game in decades.

2 months later
#24285 8 months ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Well thats good to hear there is someone working on it. It would suck to have a game that doesn't work.

It's not good to hear because clearly it's not going anywhere and this cobbled together version of MG will never be anything more than a quickly depreciating paperweight.

Anybody who didn't cash out of this as soon as they received their blinking junkbox made a very poor decision.

Is the software guy even allowed to work on that code? Didn't Deeproot buy all the assets?

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