(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

23 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #20523 Link to legal documents with allegations & responses Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20526 Third amended complain document Posted by c508 (3 years ago)

Post #20532 Summary of complaints & responses in legal documents Posted by DennisK (3 years ago)

Post #20626 MG is now ready! Posted by TecumsehPlissken (3 years ago)

Post #20631 Scott Goldberg mail on MG completion Posted by TecumsehPlissken (3 years ago)

Post #21819 Information on webpage dedicated to Magic Girl Code Features. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #22024 moderation notice Posted by Xerico (3 years ago)

Post #22304 Photos of every page of the Magic Girl manual. Posted by vidgameseller (3 years ago)

Post #22584 Lion Saw feature information. Posted by applejuice (3 years ago)

Post #22710 Very detailed review from a game owner Posted by ShinyNick (3 years ago)

Post #22817 Details on the origin of the driver board Posted by Borygard (3 years ago)

Post #22957 Comparison photos between a MG 'prototype' and another shipped MG Posted by spfxted (3 years ago)

Post #23045 Pinball News first look review. Posted by Pinballs (3 years ago)

Post #23392 Ebay Auction for NIB Magic Girl #007 Posted by fattrain (2 years ago)

Post #23611 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by dgarrett (2 years ago)

Post #23615 Interview with Linda Deal (artist), speaking about CV and TOM Posted by toyotaboy (2 years ago)

Post #23754 The Deeproot link. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

Post #23946 Result of civil suit against JPOP Posted by rommy (1 year ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#84 5 years ago

Nothing like publicly trying to break an NDA. Usually people do that sort of thing in private

#113 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Not sure if you were responding to my questions, but disclosing the name of who is doing the programming is not a violation of the NDA. Nor is disclosing who is going to be assembling the pin.

Talking about your buddy ice.

6 months later
#2571 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Without transparency, disclosure and some guarantees, I don't see how he raises the $$$ to keep funding these projects.

People don't require a NDA when transparency is their goal. I know it's easy to say now, and it is, but that should have been a mild warning. John is a great designer and artist. But it's obvious he doesn't know a lot about manufacturing. IMO he seems to have a very hard time staying focused on one thing which doubles the risk on this. When he showed that KISS foam proto it lowered my guess on probability of the machines being made.

#2578 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I always viewed the NDA as more of a marketing gimmic, maybe not...did it have a forum selection clause in it just out of curiosity?

I haven't seen it.

#2606 5 years ago

By sending money in for pre-orders all a company must do is attempt to build the desired product. If they make a reasonable attempt (wide birth for interpretation) you will have little recourse as a depositor to get your money back. I'm certain John really meant, and still means, to make real machines. The danger everyone is discussing is that he's possibly in over his head and you will never see your money or a machine. I would suggest being more conservative with your money and waiting until a machine can be shipped to buy. The people who say losing thousands of dollars doesn't bother them at all makes me scratch my head. Oh well.

Bullshit walks and solid progress talks.

#2738 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

No offense but what about this statement is any kind of "revelation" to anybody?

Because Tony (GLM) is a very level-headed guy and seems to have experience dealing with John. You may also notice Tony rarely posts in threads like these so I would take anything he has to say seriously.

1 week later
#3216 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

It my view it isn't pride but lack of money at this point that is bringing him down. My guess is he paid himself a salary large enough to eat through most of the deposits over the last four years. A demand to see what his money has been spent on to date and what's left is important...

I hope you guys the best but if this is true, and some version of running out of money probably is IMO, he's not going to share the info. It's going to take a court action and this whole thing will go south quickly. Again, I wish you guys the best of luck.

1 week later
#3555 5 years ago

I always thought John was the artist on this stuff. I guess not. Whoever did the work I love it. Playfield looks a tad busy but color will possibly fix that.

1 month later
#4253 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Best case is to force John to hire people to help get our pins done.
I'm not really interested in getting pennies on the dollar back. After all this, I want a pinball machine.
Time for full disclosure from John

So whatever happened to you confronting John and demanding info or else?

1 week later
17
#4708 5 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

I have to laugh at people who say JPOP isn't getting anything done. Anybody who has visited him in the past few months is probably chuckling too. And yes, the focus right now is on nothing else but getting these 2 titles finished and shipped...

Besides the people who have money in none of us really knew anything but what people reported here. Now we can see what you all saw. You say you laugh at people, assuming people with money in, who say nothing is getting done. Is that their fault? From the blogs it certainly doesn't look like much was accomplished lately. That's johns fault. Don't laugh at people who were starved for info. It's not their fault.

#4943 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

One way or another this is going to get done. Simple as that and I don't really care about any past BS.

You have no control over what Jon does and can't guarantee the statement above. It's great you're trying to help him but that's all you can do. I understand you're from Texas but back down a little on the rhetoric cowboy.

#4962 5 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Icey, I haven't picked that up at all. The overwhelming mood is one of "I hope you guys get your games"
Nobody wants to see someone lose $10,000 or $16,000 bucks. Or $26,000 in some cases.
rd.

No one wants to see this fail. People like Ice try to turn everything into a binary situation that you're either all for it or all against it. I believe everyone is all for it but most are realists who see the serious issues and question them. No harm in that no matter what anyone says.

#5167 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Say a prayer and hug your kids every day.

Amen.

#5185 5 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

Why in the world would u give jpop any trust right now? He's fucked he knows he's fucked.. Force him to take the help

That's the problem. You can't force him to do anything. You could sue but that takes a long time and would probably result in the company dying. When you hand a full payment for a startup pinball company you are putting your faith in the owner. If they have no experience manufacturing a pinball it's high risk. its reasonable to think John had a good idea since he worked at bw. But he worked with a huge team and it appears his expertise is only in design. He's an obvious neophyte when it comes to running a business (not paying and pissing off lots of vendors, communications, etc.)

#5190 5 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Unless jpop sent Ice a video clip of the pin exhibiting any action, nothing has changed.

Ice seems to be trying but IMO he's overconfident in his ability to impact John's situation and that was clearly evidenced by Ice attacking him again when he went a few days without getting a call. Again, kudos to him for trying but I don't believe he'll have any material impact on the situation without starting a lawsuit which again I think would mean game over.

#5205 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Ice has a good amount of financial sophistication and transactional experience.

Many of us here do.

Quoted from TigerLaw:

If JPop lets him Ice can help...of this I have no doubt.

Agreed.

Quoted from TigerLaw:

Will JPop let Ice help him? Who knows but of course Ice is going to be optimistic about it.
Optimism is the only way to approach situations like these with struggling projects if you want them to see the light.

There's optimism and then there's bravado. Ice made the statement that this *would* get done regardless of whether John wanted his help or not. That statement alone is enough to scare someone who is generally paranoid (I think those are Ice's words) and causing him to shy away. Diplomacy is key to this situation as no one can control John. The situation must be handled in a delicate manner and not via bold statements IMO. If I wanted to try and help John I wouldn't share any info here that he gave me right away. Whoever works with him needs to build trust. The more trust you build to more John would be willing to work with that person. I've been involved in somewhat hostile takeovers (hostile may be a bit too dramatic but easy to understand the general sentiment) and managed to turn them into a positive working business situation that made good money.

I would have handled it differently but I'm not going to do it. So again, kudos to Ice and Kim for trying. Kim isn't posting inside info here and is generally being very quiet about the situation. This, I believe, is the better way to handle it until someone needs to use a nuclear option.

#5211 5 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

This kind of secrecy and pussyfooting around is a) what allows John to be in control and b) what enrages pinside about this entire project.

That's a good point but I didn't say keep everything secret forever. It's extremely difficult to get people to change their ways when you have zero control over them. You have to build trust.

12
#5361 5 years ago

There's a whole lot of deja vu in this thread...

#5417 5 years ago
Quoted from jazzmaster:

John has been pretty hard at work on AIW:

foto_no_exif.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

My son made something like that...

#5604 5 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

Worst case scenario is you get your money back.

I find it funny when people with pre-orders say this. No, the WORST possible scenario is you get nothing including your money back.

#5610 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

So I'm confused, you said Zidware pays invoice, but you didn't get paid. Were you paid for some things and not others?

I think he was giving a typical example. He hasn't been paid.

#5612 5 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

That's already the current scenario. And it's not funny.

Funny strange. Not haha.

#5645 5 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

The part I find somewhat hilarious is that Jpop is a professional pinball designer...yet these guys:
wooly
amh
Predator
TBL
full throttle
All started at the same time or much later than he did, and they've had working prototypes at shows for a long time. Obviously something is very wrong somewhere.

That's the crux of the situation. JPop is a good designer. He sucks as a manufacturer and also is failing as a businessman. The designs are great. He just can't make them.

1 week later
#6127 5 years ago

(Open letter to John)

John,

It’s pretty obvious at this point that you’re not able to produce any of the machines you’ve designed. You’ve taken good people’s money and I would bet you wish there was a good way out of this mess. As I see it you have three options:

1) Give, and I do stress the word give, your machines designs to Stern. They can use your designs, assign programmers to the project, build machines to supply pre-order customers then run as many machines as they want to turn a profit. You would also need to turn over whatever pre-order money you have left to Stern and as they could absorb any overrun costs as payment for your design. You walk away with no money, your customers get the machines they were promised and your reputation as a great designer and good guy is preserved. This is by far the best plan to accomplish your goals IMO.

2) Refund whatever pre-order money is left proportionately to your customers and fold Zidware. Your customer will be somewhat unhappy unless all of their money is returned and you get out of this mess. Depending on the amount you can refund your customers will dictate damage to your reputation and possible legal actions.

3) You stay on your present course. As you’re aware legal action is already being taken by your customers. You expose yourself to possibly very damaging civil and maybe criminal charges. I’m guessing on the criminal charges part. One of our many attorneys could comment further on the amount of this risk. Your reputation will be irreparably damaged which would be an absolute shame as you’re a great designer and generally a good guy.

It’s obvious you’re way in over your head and I sincerely hope you at least attempt the first option as I believe it would be the best outcome for everyone. If you have any issue with pride put them aside and avoid the mess that would surely ensue if you don’t do something in a reasonable timeframe. This is all my opinion and a humble suggestion to try and turn a bad situation good.

#6134 5 years ago
Quoted from RomstarArkanoid:

Stern, completely drunk and being the most generous people they could ever be... WOULD NEVER DO THIS. This project is way too tainted for them to be interested in salvaging. And why would they be interested at all? The good of the hobby? They have designers and a system setup to make games and stay in business... Another thought, this thing is WAY more complex to assemble compared to an average Stern. They would likely not offer to do it, or be interested at all based on that part alone.
And to just go ahead and put this topic away while we are at it...
JJP won't either. They don't have enough money to build Hobbit, let alone this game.
Spooky is too busy (and way to smart) to get sucked up into the black hole of Zidware.

Not for the good of the hobby or being generous, for profit. They get a cool design and don't have to pay John a dime. I agree it's a long shot but stranger things have happened. Trying to think of any way people can get their machine.

12
#6601 4 years ago
Quoted from SunKing:

This is crazy. When I posted earlier that Kaneda should get a perma-ban, in no way did I ever imagine he actually was working with Zidware. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around this one.

This mess keeps getting more and more strange by the day. What next? Gary Cubeta as CFO of Zidware?

#6883 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

There would be something "substantial" given to the early adopters in both MG and RAZA
Obviously customers aren't going to put up $$ on any pins until they start being produced so yes it would have to involve 3rd party financing
I'm considering providing funding myself IF things can get set up properly
And there are a few other options to explore as well

Fund it! Handing John more money is exactly what this project needs!!

(Back to munching popcorn)

#7015 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Normally I'd redact that...but it is so pertinent I'm going to let it stay. Another mod may not agree as it does have personal identification info...however im exceedingly curious as this may blow up one major myth...that JPop's spouse is loaded and he does not need to draw a salary...

This does break a pinside policy. I know you guys deserve better than John is giving but his address should not be posted here as it violates pinside rules.

#7017 4 years ago
Quoted from turbo20lbs:

It's really nothing secret.... Zidware is listed under that address as well.
http://start.cortera.com/company/research/l3m4oqn0k/zidware-inc/

That's fine. Let people dig for it.

-1
#7046 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

How is this pertinent to Pinside? Please explain. As a disgruntled Jpop customer I have had this document saved on my computer for months now. Over a year maybe along with a lot of other documentation. And I have it available to the owners group.
Yes, this is open information but posting it to a public forum smacks of vigilantism and its totally unnecessary. This is another reason why Pinside is so disgraceful and now we have a moderator condoning this lowbrow behavior.

#7121 4 years ago

More than ever I think a deal with stern is his best, and possibly only, option. I know some of you don't agree but I don't see any other way his machines get built. Spooky pinball as a long shot possibility but not likely.

-1
#7136 4 years ago
Quoted from BrianZ:

Stern wont. Gary is a smart business man. He's not that stupid. The volume is not there to make it worth his while (god knows the legal and other mess).
At this point, "boutique pinball"; has been great for Gary. He gets a lot of crap at times here on Pinside, but he continues to prove he is one of the smartest in the room.

The point is it looks like a good design and stern would not have to limit it to 15 machines. They could make 1500-2000 of them and make a lot of money. They wouldn't have to pay John, they would just have to give the 15 machines to the people who paid for them. It's pretty simple, at least in thought Egos tend to screw things up at the worst times though.

#7137 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Pinside as much as anything enabled him to show off his shiny new business, created a fever and collect a ton of money. Pinside stuck with him and defended him for way longer than it should have - until just recently in fact. Pinside did not collectively change their mind until long after even JPop himself had to have known the project was in serious trouble. Now he is blaming Pinside for his downfall? Sorry, but Pinside reacted to the downfall, not the other way around. What balls on this guy.

IMO, he's in denial.

-1
#7157 4 years ago
Quoted from LyonsRonnie1:

If Stern bails him out, they deserve a congressional medal of honor because they sure as hell won't make any profit out of it...

It wouldn't be Stern bailing him out. It wouldn't work if Stern didn't make money on it. Throw out what you know and think of it as a free pin design stern could use just like any other design. Stern profits.

#7579 4 years ago
Quoted from Saveleaningtower:

Can someone sum up the 152 pages in a paragraph?

Goat rodeo.

16
#7685 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Arguing with the most dangerous game of all – man.
Is pdxmonkey as least posting in the private group? I don't care if just the owners get info, but man, what a case of blue balls. "I played the game that you all paid for and are dying to get even a crumb of info about. See you guys later."

This is very similar to the few people who supported skitb until the very end. They were fed mis-information and willing to go to the wall defending it. I would suggest not to believe reports of progress until you can see it with your own eyes.

#7866 4 years ago

*If* he's truly out of money AND asking manufacturers for a designer fee for each pin he's truly delusional. *If* that's all true I'm afraid all hope is lost IMO.

#7944 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The term "gameplay" is subjective. When you start bringing Tournament logic into things, almost ANY great game can "suck". There are a good chunk of players who don't even remotely think about the things Tournament players think about in terms of playing the game or deriving enjoyment from the game.
Obviously opinions on games are very subjective and everyone has different tastes - but let's be objective...you may have bored of ToM, TOTAN, and CV...but those games do have excellence beyond the superficial, and most would be happy to play/own them. I don't even remotely like TZ - I'd rather play any other game....but I respect what it brings to the table and understand why people like it.
SWEp1 does blow though...I'm with you there lol

I think it comes down to software on his games. I really enjoy wcs. Cv is not as fun but still decent. Tom leaves me completely flat. Love the art. Love the music. Love the theme. The software lets me down. Totan falls short in lots of depts for me. Opinions are like credit cards...

#7948 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Also recognize KEF on WOZ did all the new ops system, I/O code for new video and almost all new hardware drivers, - KEF built a pinball platform THEN coded WoZ. Stern games have a team of coders with specialists in dots, sound, gameplay etc. How is Jpop going to find another KEF, Lyman or Ben Heck - plus all the specialists? It ain't going to happen soon, even if he had 100 games put together and done - there isn't any code!!

Ben is extremely talented in all sorts of ways but he's no Lyman or Keith. Those guys are in a league of their own. And they are very different in how they attack rules.

#7961 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I've never been able to figure out why anyone thinks TOM's software is bad. There are tons of modes, multiballs, hurry ups, gimmicks - there are always cool things going on and it's butter smooth to shoot. I can't think of one thing that puts it below other games of its era. I've heard "no wizard mode" and "tournament exploits". Is that it? What else am I missing? I just have fun every time I play it.

It's really hard to quantify. But when everything else in the game is good it must be the software. I want to love the game.

#8261 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

What I would like to do, if he would let us, is get in there and get a complete picture of the FINANCIAL SITUATION as it stands right now.
Have a real "project manager" determine what its going to take to source the remaining parts to put the box together.
An actual budget of sorts, what a concept.
You could present people with some options.
1) Here is the cost to complete all three pins and SEGREGATE right now, the accounting for those three projects, allocate the fixed overhead on a pro rata basis, etc.
Then based on where it stands TODAY, figure out how much its going to cost to produce and program these pins and then the owners would have to collectively agree to an "assessment" to cover the shortfall for each project.
Who's in and who's out. Obviously not a perfect solution, there are none, but maybe its a smaller number than we all think.
This option feels like climbing Mt. Everest not just once but three times, back to back. Not good.
2) The better idea for me, like Ben said, roll everything into ONE project right now, MG, do a much bigger run to cover everybody on all the projects and factor in a lowered price and reimbursement for the MG guys that are already paid up down to the 10k price or whatever it is.
Depending on the situation, maybe it takes 12k to get an MG done at cost from here on out, who knows, can't get a look at the financials!
Even though John treats it that way, he doesn't get to spend like the federal government, the books have to balance and numbers matter!
It really does come down to 2 + 2 has equal 4. Let's figure out how to make the numbers work. Guy won't let anybody help him.
At the end of the day, because of John's stupidity, I think MG has the only chance of ever getting done and yet he's backed himself into a very tough spot.
He needs more $$$$ to build for the existing 25 guys, that's why he needs to raise to at least 50 and be able to collect 17k from those guys. Raise your hand if you are willing to ante up a dime to John right now?
Thus, the only possible outcome at this moment that could work is for everybody to roll into one pin, MG, and then just figure out the math and put somebody else in charge of production and programming.
How does John benefit? That's all he really cares about, collecting his paycheck and profits. He doesn't benefit other going from the Hall of Pinball Fame to the Hall of Shame with SkitB.
Interesting choices John, what are you gonna do. The longer you wait and extend the charade the tougher its going to be to fix this, if its fixable.

You have zero hope of working with him. In between 20 posts insulting him you post one wanting to help? And you even insult him after saying that above. You do not have near the right temperament to solve anything with John. Let it go.

#8269 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Iceman isn't the problem here. The only people that John apparently CAN work with regarding resolution of these issues are sycophants. Unfortunately, sycophants don't tell him what he actually NEEDS to hear, so he continues to spin his wheels, and his projects remain stuck in development hell.

He's not the problem but he's also not the solution.

#8288 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I respectfully disagree. Ice has some great ideas and is the type of person that gets things done. He is also somewhat of a bull in a china shop, what needs to happen is someone like Ice needs to work with one of the people in John's inner inner circle but not with John directly.
Heck, it wasn't that long ago Ice was even suggesting maybe he would finance the build out of the prototypes...how many people would even consider that?

I agree kissing John's ass won't accomplish anything. Likewise how is openly insulting him constantly going to accomplish one thing? How is that positive at all? Realistic, tough conversations are certainly appropriate. Constant insults and bravado will get no one anywhere. Makes for good drama but that's about it.

#8448 4 years ago
Quoted from CNKay:

Has John ever posted to this post? A year old and seems like no real updates. ??
Or is this the skitb revisited. Sure seems like the same thing

Yeah, to two or three fake accounts lately stating everything is going great. He just played the machine. etc...

#8494 4 years ago

It's really shitty of him to not pay people who helped him, glm, cointaker. Not refund money. Not update customers. But he can make a big thing out of ramp molds? John, you are burning your reputation to the ground. It's not fun watching it happen. At this point if a real manufacturer hired him I wouldn't buy any of his games out of principal.

#8601 4 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Of those in this thread (407! pinsiders, 8500+ posts !!) who has a dog in the fight?
Some are obvious by the post content, but did not read them all & some ordered more than 1.
Raz, Ice,Tiger .... who else?

Well, everyone who buys pinball machines. Potential failures like this impact the hobby in general.

#8675 4 years ago

John's shop is not the White House. If it takes that much editing I'm not so sure it's worth reading.+

(24 paragraphs on how Pinside has killed his business) (striken)

(16 paragraphs on a boring plastic ramp) (all but one paragraph striken)

Sorry for the delays.

John

#8704 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I suspended all common sense with this deal. It wasn't that long ago, last August/September that I and others were rushing to get on the MG list.

I argued a long time ago that anyone who pays for a pin before trying it isn't doing it right. This has been true for Stern for a long time. It's even more imperative for these startups who have never made a pin. It drives me crazy to see post "Kiss is going to be the best pin ever!" or "The Hobbit will be excellent!! I'm certain!!!!" But everyone keeps doing it. Oh well... People are free to do what they want but complaining about the game sucking or never getting your pin is a chance that everyone who supports this takes.

#8793 4 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

Correction, "IS trying to fund itself". The Form D filing is an intent to sell securities to raise capital. In this case, 6 million. The terms of the funding are 1 year and currently no securities have been sold. Minimum buy-in is $25K (if you feel like investing).
You can find the Form D filing on the SEC website. Just do an EDGAR search for "Deeproot".

http://deeprootfunds.com/

I worked with a company like this in Chicago. If it's the same type of thing, which it seems to be, it's really an investment group that has a pool of rich clients looking for high risk/high return investment opportunities. The place I worked with in chicago suggested funding a company I helped start in this way. The company in Chicago was brought up on charges. They had a really large group of investors though. IMO, dicey stuff if you ask me. Of course there's zero correlation between this group and the company in chicago. Or at least that I'm aware of.

#8805 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Interesting.......
Deep Root is right down the road from me. Looks like these guys target "accredited investors" and one asset class they invest in is in the "distressed asset" category.
From their webpage
"The end result defines us: solid alternative investment debenture funds that are designed to keep pace with or outperform traditional investments without taking on unnecessary, unpredictable risk."
"Safety first"
Hmmm
As an "accredited investor" you are signing off that you have sufficient assets to risk and that you essentially know what you are getting into, these are private placements under Sec Reg D
Looks like the founders both worked at USAA prior. I wonder what their fees are?

I think that kind of investing is the definition of high-risk. The fees the chicago joint demanded were huge. Another reason why we didn't do it.

#8866 4 years ago
Quoted from GLModular:

Everybody knows it's multi-colored with hues of blue, purple, green. Only seen in partial shots, never complete. Oh, you mean Nellie...

It's interesting that two guys (you Tony and Ben) that I've never heard say anything publicly bad about anyone are so pissed at John. Not giving either of you a hard time about it. It's just interesting that John pissed off two very even-keel tech guys to this point. Let this be a lesson to anyone thinking of working with John.

#9237 4 years ago

Wow.

13
#9246 4 years ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

hey all - I'll chime in with one bit that may or may not help soothe the pain
I met with the 'Licensee' just 2 days ago in Chicago. Rather impromptu meeting after a root canal and a 3 hr drive on Vicodin/Ibuprofen... but I made it safely (I had just watch Mad Max Fury Road last weekend and was a bit concerned I might have to ram a few cars off the toll road - but i held off)... We had a brief phone conversation prior to that, but essentially I'd never met 'Licensee'.
In the few hours i spent talking with 'Licensee' I came away with an impression I did not expect. This is not an inexperienced 'Licensee' in the realm of high stakes & large scale business. Quite the contrary. The plans are lofty and achievable and well researched. And more importantly - coming from someone that LOVES pinball.
While the path to get someone of this nature involved in this project was the WORST possible path & many are deservedly upset and skeptical, I can only offer that this might be the best possible outcome for not only the Zidware-Victimized but for the pinball community at large. (And I dare say for John - knowing full well some may understandably not like that idea)
Now, obviously I can't say much yet (and I have yet to sign anything myself) - and probably shouldn't post this - but as someone who worked there ass off to make rad stuff for the owners/investors of MG, RAZA. & AIW - I just wanted you to know that I have the utmost confidence if things move forward (ie people sign and 'Licensee' can reveal) in the future of the work done and the work to come.
Lastly - for the cynical few (on a forum!?) - I'm always careful about putting myself out there and diluting my integrity and work (hence my hidden credit up till the adobe video) - so just know i don't say this without a bit of hesitation (ie I have nothing but initial contempt for large scale business ventures from past experience) but it's overshadowed by legitimate excitement and optimism.
In short - I think the end product is going to be MUCH better!!! And hell - I might even get paid for doing pinball work (i jest)

I think everyone here wants to see you made whole on this deal. Along with glm, coin taker, etc. I can understand this being exciting news for you as this means you may get paid. But you have to understand that the way this is going down is bullshit. Customers that have been screwed by John have to sign away any right to take action against John with ZERO guarantee anything positive will come of it. A mysterious pinball lover angel investor, and no details provided. No smart person would sign that. Signing it opens you up to getting screwed again and being able to take no action. So the cynical, yet quite possible, outcome of all this is John gets protection from being sued and everyone else gets nothing. Not a reasonable plan in any way. All of this is my opinion but again, wow. The nerve.

#9332 4 years ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

I don't disagree at all - but I really expected everyone to be screwed and end up with nothing. And at best - a bandaid solution that prolongs a future that fails. What I see now is the exact opposite. Again - I'm not unbiased

This is really just a no win for anyone. Customers screwed. John could possibly be brought up on charges of some sort. Just a nasty mess that's bad for everyone.

#9335 4 years ago
Quoted from zombieyeti:

he's just an idiot

You're being too kind

#9337 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I thought this bit was interesting (hat tip Nate!) in the actual order letter, not the first letter:
"Yes, I would like to convert my order(s) for RAZA and/or AIW to a Magic GirlTM–Classic, at a price range of (USD $9,995 to $11,995). My deposit(s) to Zidware will be converted 1:2 into a Magic GirlTM–Classic."
Note the 1:2 part. Looks like they were hoping to incentivize RAZA and AIW buyers into buying the "cheaper" MG by doubling their money.
Look, I get that people are mad, and this is a weird deal. Lot of unknowns. And obviously the "no sue" stuff isn't gonna make people feel good.
I just wonder, taking emotion out of this for a moment (easy for me to say) – what's the end game?
Because let's say everyone says FU to this deal (it's feeling that way now), then what? John is broke. It's not a rumor, he has no money. What exactly are people hoping to do? Pierce the veil and try and get him and his wife to sell their house and assets or something? It just feels like the possibility of actually getting your money back is really low.
Throwing more money at this probably isn't an awesome idea either, granted, but isn't this kind of what people wanted? Someone to step in, be the big business man, and shove John aside, and take over?

Smart people know when to cut their losses.

#9377 4 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Is it too late to take pdxmonkey up on his 50 cents on the dollar offer?

Maybe he is the investor :p

15
#9438 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Are you prepared to spend 10k on a legal retainer? I should say "waste"
Try and find a lawyer that will represent you on a % basis. Come on, let's get real here. There is no choice

Getting real is walking away from this whole thing and learning the lesson to NEVER fund this crap again. Has the investor with the love of pinball ever made a machine? Unless the answer is yes you shouldn't even consider spending another dollar on this crapfest.

16
#9457 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I swear I don't know wtf is wrong with some of you people

Sometimes you're very level headed and sometimes you fly off the sanity wagon IMO. What is yet another person with no experience making a pinball machine, ASKING FOR MORE MONEY, going to do to magic up these machines? So Ice says toss more money in, this is a blessing?? What happens if THIS round goes tits-up? Should the people do it again with the next "secret" investor? If someone has a plan it's time to lay it out now. Only an idiot would give this effort more money not knowing any more details than have been presented.

#9473 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

BUT, with him involved it WILL get done.

You said this about you getting involved about 50 pages ago and here we are. Deja vu...

#9475 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You guys don't have the benefit of knowing who is behind it yet and the details which I hope he discloses
As a lawyer, I would tell my client NOT to pay me to sue a bankrupt company with the hope that John himself can be held personally liable AND that he isn't judgment proof
Whether you go forward or not, I would want more details

You're acting like there's only two options. Just walking away is the third and best IMO.

#9559 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The advice to sue John now is Assinine. But hey, knock yourselves out
The other option is just walk away
Maybe it's lost on some people that John wouldn't be running the show anymore. Thus, you have to decide if you think the new guy is capable or not

That's the crux of the situation. It's a mystery man. You can't judge anything. And what happens if people sign and the mystery man bails because John flakes on him? The pst thing this boondoggle needs is more mystery.

#9841 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I gave myself a week break from this thread, as I just couldn't take it anymore...but the above. Oh my god...someone put JPop in jail please. "Almost sold out"...better hurry and let me steal your money should have been what he said.

If that's real John does need jail time.

#10278 4 years ago

Kudos to someone for trying. Here are the issues:

1) stern of jjp to manufacture - jjp can't make their own pins so that's a no go. Stern would be a good option if they would agree. They probably won't.

2) programmers - for this amount of money you had better have a AAA programmer and not a hobbyist. There are really only two today Lyman and Keith. Both employed already.

3) designer - John is a flake and having him on this project going forward would make me pull out. To finish the machine you need a solid designer.

4) inexperience - the guys trying to carry this on have zero experience doing any of this. If they're willing to risk their money without making customers send more money that's good. I would suggest they they shouldn't spend money on this mess. Don't underestimate the amount of work this will take to finish. Just because you have money doesn't mean it will happen. I would also suggest you will almost certainly lose money on this fiasco. Understanding that if you guys want to fund loses more power to you but I would bet it will be just that you guys funding loses.

#10341 4 years ago
Quoted from Linolium:

I hope that comment wasn't aimed at me...

It wasn't aimed at you and it's nothing personal to any hobby programmers but 16k for a machine you want a proven programmer who can make an excellent rule set. Sure a number of people can program a pinball machine and you have proven you can but fun rule sets is an art. Until people prove they can make an excellent rule set I wouldn't spend anywhere near that amount of money on a pin with an unproven rules programmer. for that amount of money you want quality all the way around.

#10416 4 years ago

Sometimes I agree with iceman, many more often I don't

I think the point he's making is suing will probably yield you a negative balance in the end due to lawyer fees. Now, if you want to extract a pound of flesh you may get this satisfaction. Just don't go in to it expecting money back. Like the lord humongous said, "Just walk away."

#10571 4 years ago
Quoted from Perspex:

The next guy to come along with a new pin/company better get used to being held under a microscope!
Someone mentioned bringing in Nordman...his stellar rep could likely paint over the stains on these games, but would he even be remotely interested?

Anyone who preorders these pins in the future deserves zero sympathy if the project fails. Too many examples of them failing not to learn.

#10671 4 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Does anyone find it irrating that Jpop is really just walking away with no coupabilty whatsoever?
If they show this "game" at NW I would encourage someone,anyone, who got torched in this, to flip the fuckin "game" over on its side.

He has completely sent his name into the sewer. He will probably never work in pinball again. Instead of being remembered for his games he'll be remembered for screwing people. Maybe not the punishment people want but a punishment none the less.

Culpability is the word you're looking for.

14
#10710 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

My guess is he is working on the prototype today. But just because you haven't seen the full flipping prototype does not mean it doesn't exist or is 'worthless,' as per your suggestion of 'starting over with just the artwork.' You really can't see the flaws in your reasoning here?
[EDIT] To be clear, I know pretty much everyone is royally pissed at John, and I'm not defending him in any way by these remarks. I am simply pointing out that, taking the emotion out of the situation, there are objectively 2 basically complete pinball layouts with good flow and a lot of new features, plus many improvements in lighting and display, and new toys, etc. in these 2 designs. Objectively speaking, all of this is not 'worthless.'

You've said this multiple times and no one has seen anything new. I would suggest you'd be better off not cheerleading John in any way. Because IMO you still are.

#10750 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

When I was trying to help John with the financials I was accused of not having the right "temperament" to deal with John. Really?

Absolutely really. When trying to work with stubborn people you don't come to a public forum and constantly insult them. I'm not talking about any sort of constructive criticism just your straight insults. So yes, I still stand by what I said. In saying that I'm not defending John as he's a dirtbag at best. And what we know now we didn't know then, that there was no hope.

Now, if you want to pull old quotes out of context look a few posts up at how you said spooky could never make a pin and pop would. Like I said, sometimes you appear very rational and sometimes not so much.

#10751 4 years ago

Dup

#10757 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

My insults were well deserved and came AFTER many conversations with him
He needed a foot stuck so far up his ass it would make his head pop off
I wasn't hard enough on him. You gotta be kidding me
I don't roll that way, like it or not, look at what John turned out to be.
It's largely because too many people kissed his ass for too long!
Insults? I've got plenty more for him. Get real

So you stand by insults as a method of creating trust between two parties to effect positive change? That's what you said you would do and failed. Or do I need to pull the posts on how you were working with John and "good things" were happening at the same time you were insulting him? Really...

#10814 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

To be clear Cheesiv, I was critical and insulting WAY before my conversations with him, since Expo.
He knew that and we talked about. His unwillingness to disclose financials to me had zip to do with building trust.
In fact, if I wanted to consider being an "investor" he would happily open it up.
Well, Bill found out the state of affairs and the carnage that is left

That is true. =)

Look, like you said, it was a no win and here we are.

#10918 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

It's sad because the more rational and considerate folks here also tend to be the ones who rarely post.

See irony.

20
#10985 4 years ago

Just a suggestion; if you are able to produce these machines they need a bash jpop target. That would be a good stress reliever after this mess.

#11244 4 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

It also took a 3rd party to come get involved to get BBB done and out the door. Kerry Stair swooped in and saved that one.

And Gene thanked him by screwing him. Isn't it sad how many stories in pinball end this way?

#11288 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

This pinball crowd is something else, wow.
Anybody actually read the allegations made in the lawsuit from Elaut? That'll make your hair stand up on the back of your neck.

I did. I refuse to comment on the situation.

#11606 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

What is the suggestion and I'll do it?

Add pinball to it while you're at it. So it will return anytime someone searches for jpop pinball

#11789 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

RobT I'm sure Jack switched the method to save money, not for a vendetta.

According to MN sources he owed a lot of money to that company and still does from a recent post.

#11815 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

OK well in that case, to keep it brief for those who haven't read the pastebin (and it cites references) her former company and employer have lost a lawsuit filed against them for running a ponzi scheme and authorities suspect Daniel Fernandez Rojo Filho of being an important money launderer for El Chapo and the Sinaloa drug cartel. Starts to make sense Brandes goes with the godfather as his icon.
Edit: Pastebin relinked for convenience. http://pastebin.com/DE1knCKH
Edit2: I forgot to mention there was actually a RICO lawsuit filed against DFRF Enterprises in Massachusetts

Could this POSSIBLY get any more strange??

14
#11853 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Let's sell the movie rights: Jpop: THE MOVIE ....film profits used to pay back everyone.
Who would play John? Too bad Phillip Seymore Hoffman is no longer with us.

Andy dick

#11928 4 years ago
Quoted from Join_The_Cirqus:

WISH GRANTED!!!

2015-05-28-20-12-48.png (Click image to enlarge)
2015-05-28-20-11-59.png (Click image to enlarge)

not-sure-if-you-can-shut-up-and-take-my-money-or-not.jpg

#12107 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

If John collected south of a million then it's actually pretty feasible he really did burn it all up on salaries, parts, contractors, rent, etc. 300k a year is nothing.
I've heard numbers on Predator and they too collected a lot less than people think.
Bill needs to cost reduce this game so the amount that needs to be collected for completion can be lower. Not just parts, but complexity of assembly which looks to be a nightmare from a casual glance.
Nothing they could put in this game would make it actually worth 16k. The value now is how badly people want to see the project completed.

John negotiated a very lucrative contract for himself while he was at wms according to people who were in the know. It's not inconceivable that he easily blew 250k a year to himself in salary. Factor in building and misc expenses and *poof*, it's all gone.

#12226 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Oh man, don't get me started on P3... A game clearly designed by a programmer/engineer...
OOOF

That's the problem with boutique pins. You need a pro designer, coder, artist and musician to make a truly great pin. Many of the boutique pins fall short in one or more of these areas. Seriously short.

#12349 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Worst, and expected case, was that he would produce more MGs.

You're not alone in thinking like this about unproven pinball manufacturers. I can't tell you how many people here have said something like, "Worst case predator rules suck." Or something like that about their pre-order pin. I've corrected a few reminding them worst case is you lose your money.

#12484 4 years ago
Quoted from Join_The_Cirqus:

Brian Eddy perhaps Lloyd ??

Brian still works at Zynga. You won't see him at JJP

#12999 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Pre-ordered!!! I'm in!

Me too.

#13122 4 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

If it turns out John Popadiuk was the nefarious thief in all this and Kevin refunds people...just face palm again. Kevin is the buffoon in the basement while John is the evil grinch stealing from the community. Wow. It's still a big "if" to me as I have not received a refund from anyone.

Please do not misconstrue this as support for John in any way. I strongly believe John set out to make a pin and just miserably failed. He lacked any business knowledge, it seems, and obviously had such an inflated ego he was delusional in thinking he could do it. A failed business is a lot different than someone who is a intentional thief. Although in both cases the customer gets screwed.

#13129 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Not when the owner of said failed business sucked out most of the money to pay himself and his wife salary while he lied to people to get more deposit money.
Heck, just six weeks ago JPop apparently was trying to sell AIW slots. Even if he is as incompetent and many say, by six weeks ago he knew he wasn't making AIW.

IMO I don't disagree that good intentions probably turned into intentional fraud. But I think we would both agree his stupidity led him to what may be criminal. My point was he didn't have criminal intent initially.

#13130 4 years ago
Quoted from YKpinballer:

It is pretty naive to think that somebody who compartmentalized every person working on the project from the beginning, didn't pay vendors, lied for years about the status, misrepresented the rate of progress, stonewalled the professionals who could help deliver it, and faked having deals with individuals who had nothing to do with the project had pure intentions and genuinely just failed as a businessman. Sure you may believe that, but you have very little reason to *strongly* believe that.

So your point is John went into this with criminal intent? I completely disagree if that's what you're saying.

#13140 4 years ago
Quoted from TOK:

According to posts earlier in this thread, he was still trying to take orders after it was obvious the game was in trouble and not going to get built. If that is true (no reason to doubt it) that is CLEARLY criminal intent.
You don't get off the hook for starting out un-informed before morphing into a scumbag. Seems like ripped off everyone helping with the project too. That wasn't accidental.

From one of my earlier posts.

Quoted from chessiv:

IMO I don't disagree that good intentions probably turned into intentional fraud.

#13141 4 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

What does his original intent matter? So you're saying someone who signed up for aiw right at the end would be ok being screwed since jpop didn't initially have criminal intent? Put another way: A guy doesn't plan on cheating on his wife but he goes out with the boys, gets drunk and cheats. Is he less a cheater because when he left to go to the bar he didn't intend on cheating and more importantly; he was drunk?

Original intent does matter in a number of ways. Also read my earlier post:

Quoted from chessiv:

IMO I don't disagree that good intentions probably turned into intentional fraud.

#13154 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Pardon my bluntness, Kevin and John are both idiots. Kevin for thinking he could slip a game or two .. hundred.. under Fox's radar, and John for having no production plans and thinking some magic pinball company would come bail him out.
Neither went into their respective projects looking to rip anyone off, but as the wheels fell off each train, the conductors started to get shady to prop up their failures. Both should have come clean far earlier than now, but ehh... humans hate admitting failure.

We agree for once =)

10
#14012 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

BS Greg, you implied that Bill has some kind of ulterior motives.
When you think about it. How F ing dumb is that!
I'll see you at the TBL funeral. I'm happy for you that you predicted this but here's mine. Adios TBL

For whining about BS you have single handedly filled two threads with more BS than anyone this weekend. You should also read your own rants as many apply to you.

#14202 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I think all the pro-censorship advocates are saying what amounts to this:
If you don't have any skin in the game you shouldn't say anything, and if you don't have a mouth full of praise for the very rough (poor) prototype game you should not say anything.

Over and over last night iceman kept saying this here, in the jpop thread, while posting in the skitb thread. And then he attacked TBL, which he has money in neither. So, yeah... People are welcome to state this as their opinion but in the end if you enjoy pinball crap like this impacts everyone.

#14319 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Well, ice was ejected again... (Permanently this time), so you don't have him trying to respond to every other post.
That right there is a 7% reduction in posting. Add in the dumbasses like me that would get goaded into responding to him, and you're looking at a net 15-20% reduction in noise with the ejection

Guilty here too. The thread is much more civil now.

#14393 4 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

And yet people on here still defend him. It's unbelievable to me. John P is the worst thing that has happened to pinball in the last 20 years. Maybe ever. Though he did kill almost any new pinball startup that request money up front without a working prototype.
I cannot stand the man.

Is anyone still defending him? Not in this thread

#14495 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

Go back and look at the posts.
Where was JPop's manufacturing facility? Where was an assembled committed team? It was never there in the beginning unlike JJP. What resources did he have other than the pre-order money to get anything done? Why did the whole thing have to be done in secret?
Do you think for a minute, if his operation was not confined to the dark shadows of private groups, among people who were legally-obligated to not say anything, that the end result would have been the same?
And you call me delusional?

A quick story...

When I bought my first machine I found RGP and it was an excellent source for repair tips, along with the community guide that clay maintained. Gene Cunningham offered a pre-order for BBB. I had no real idea who Gene was so I read RGP posts and asked a few local pinheads what they thought. "When pigs fly!" Remember that? A local guy here who is pretty cool, and smart, said there's no way Gene could pull it off citing a number of great reasons, no manufacturing experience, facility, some of the same stuff people here are saying. Well, history showed BBB was remade and only because a few great pinheads helped make it happen but it was done none the less.

Now, I don't do preorders. I got into MMR and it reminded me why I don't. I want to be able to try then immediately buy something so it's not for me. So, while I don't preorder, mainly because it's a huge gamble, many people do and have been rewarded. Some burned. So don't give anyone too hard of a time that they gambled and lost. This guy was a REAL pinball designer and they didn't figure out what a flake he was until it was too late.

#14531 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

BBB is not a good example. First, Gene Cunningham is now bankrupt and has lost everything... Gene was an entrepreneur and had a lot more experience... That being said, even though Gene's had more experience, more money, and his project was better-conceived...

You don't know Gene very well. I worked very closely with him as did a number of other people here. Gene was not a great businessman and had zero experience manufacturing anything let alone a pinball machine. You're looking at the result and making a lot of bad assumptions about how it got there. Ask some of the people close to the project. Even with all the parts BBB would not have been completed without some hard working, smart pinheads that jumped in and got it on track. One of which Kerry, Gene screwed in the end. So yeah, for some reason there are too many shady characters in pinball.

#14819 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Ah, well fair enough then. I will definitely admit that I'm personally experiencing things being different right now than I had originally been led to believe, and that it's harder to see that coming ahead of time than I had hoped.
So maybe I was overly harsh there, mea culpa.

It really varies by licensor. We have 40-50 licenses that we've dealt with, including warner brothers and some are more flexible than others. Some allow hand drawn art, some don't. It's funny when we get feedback that something looks bad and it's stock art provided by the studio

#15127 4 years ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

This thread is stupid now.

Jailhouse lawyers are mildly entertaining until they keep repeating garbage as gospel over and over.

#15362 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

How do car dealers sell vehicles below cost yet seem to expand their dealerships? See: Penske mega-dealers for the best example of this.

Car dealers get kickbacks on all sorts of things. Cost is definitely not cost. Car dealers print money.

#15602 4 years ago

Hasn't this thread run it's course? Everyone agrees 100% John screwed everyone and is being a complete idiot about it. It's just turned into drama for drama's sake. Someone should start a thread on the lawsuit(s) and put this one to bed.

John is an asshole! There, I'm done. I might even take a forced 24 hour siesta

3 weeks later
14
#16268 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Beat me to it. Jack's whole "F Pinside" attitude lately has been a turn-off...but now his response to the Jpop fraud is victim blaming!?!? Going along with the narrative that it's the community's fault for John's failure and theft!? People should just shrug it off and move on after losing thousands!?
Glad I don't have money on a Hobbit.

He has to run some damage control for John. By doing so he's doing damage control for himself.

#16273 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I swear, the more I sit here thinking about that post from Jack, the more it pisses me off. And I didn't lose a dime on JPop! I can't imagine how it would make my friends feel who have lost thousands of dollars in this deal.
Fucking clueless.

Only in his mind. Because nobody with an ounce of common sense would read that post by Jack and feel like he helped with any kind of damage control. I would hope that 99% of people reading that post would see it for what it is: blaming the victims. Pure crap.

I agree. But if he doesn't try to smooth the angry mob he probably fears they'll attack him next. I mean more than normal.

11
#16329 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

I saw the same thing. VERY odd that JJP is defending JPop. If JJP is solvent and capable, why would he be defending someone who wasn't? The first thing I'd be saying is, "Sorry about what happened to JPop but he, unlike my company, didn't have a plan and didn't have the proper resources to take products to market."

The way it's written sounds a bit like a prelude.

30
#16389 4 years ago

Now. The fanboys wonder why many of us have constant problems with Jack/JJP. Like I've always said, Jack creates his own demons every time he posts. We don't create the drama, Jack does. The latest JPOP post is so outrageous even some of the fanboys are scratching their heads and rightfully so. So stop calling everyone who surfaces issues about JJP as trolls and instead look to Jack as the source. Gary Stern doesn't catch near the amount of BS jack does. Why? He doesn't post ridiculously stupid diatribes like jack just did.

Jpop customers got what they deserved? That one statement shows such a level of contempt for customers that it's unfathomable.

1 week later
#16761 4 years ago
Quoted from dgposter:

Yeah, too bad Derek Smart wasn't in on any of Jpop's games!
For those who don't know, Derek Smart is the guy blowing the lid off of what may be the biggest video gaming and crowdfunding scandal in history. I read through his blogs last night and there are a lot of similarities with what Jpop has done, just at a much higher level (83 million dollars and almost 1 million backers).

I read a few articles on that mess. It closely parallels some of the stories here. Again, don't pre-order. It's really that easy. Hand people money and there's zero guarantee you'll get what was promised or anything at all for that matter. One thing is sure, anyone who supports pre-pay ventures at this point should plan on losing their money as a possible outcome. Sometimes when you gamble you lose.

17
#16784 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I know they say Jack is a great businessman.

He's a horrible businessman. Jack is a salesman. One that will tell you anything to get a sale.

#16830 4 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

And I'm gonna have to agree with the person who said

And you would very likely be wrong just like the other person. Pat did some great pins. But looking at all the Stern pins he did, not a killer title in the bunch IMO.

#16833 4 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

Not even Family Guy? I hate the license but love the game...

Honestly, I think the playfield design was boring. The software and the humor were great. Once the novelty of the comedy wore off I found myself with a pin that has boring shots. Opinions obviously do vary =)

#16834 4 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

Not even Family Guy? I hate the license but love the game...

In all fairness I really liked the RBION layout. I think that was his best at Stern. The software was not good though.

#16851 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Let's see what Pat does when "budget" isn't the issue.

Budget is always an issue. Remember, the days pat was at stern the budgets were pretty healthy. And hobbit looks cost reduced compared to the original woz. Hell, the current woz is cost reduced compared to the original woz. If you aren't in business to make money you won't be in business long.

#16854 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It's all relative isn't it? Listen to Pat's own interviews and words regarding Stern versus Bally. He was there I think in the heyday of Bally and cost cutting days of Stern.
Like I said, we'll see soon enough won't we? That's what this is all about after all with Pat.

No, actually you said lets see what he does when budget isn't an issue. But I agree with the wait and see attitude.

#16886 4 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Meanwhile back at the JPOP Ponzi scheme headquarters
http://www.pinballinventor.org/feed.html
image.jpg

Not a Ponzi scheme. That implies someone other than John benefitted. I think every but John lost.

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