(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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There are 24288 posts in this topic. You are on page 98 of 486.
#4851 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisVW:

You seem to have a super awesome sense of passive aggressiveness and sarcasm. Please don't take that the wrong way. I'm impressed.

I won't lie, I laughed at that.

IMHO FAST and Mission are your best chance to see a working game. There's a lot to talk about from the past. It's just not going to help you any though. You need to look forward. Aaron knows Jpop, he knows what he's walking into, and he's still willing to do it.

So figure out how to rally behind that. Hell, draft up a letter saying "John, we want to see the dream live, please give FAST and Mission a chance to try, get Magic Girl working, have a true "Lebowski moment" (remember, that game had shit for rules at Expo, you could flip it though, and hear some callouts and music, see some lights). Work on RAZA while they do their thing. If you hate what they do, so be it. Try it."

And see how many owners will sign it. Get some momentum and you never know what might happen.

#4852 4 years ago

So he lied about making a deal with Fast and Mission last october, and states at the same time "Lying to customers is not the way I work, to make them go away for a while".

Like wow.

How can iceman be sure that John told him the truth over the phone? It's possible that he's getting j-popped aswell.

Will the bank account get an audit? Can ice get that done even if John changes his mind and fights it. Using the legal process doesn't always mean scorched earth, it could also be about a basic audit.

Knowing how much money John has left should be the first step.

I also remember ice saying something to the effect that everyone must finish their payments for the games to get done. Is this why John doesn't refund?

#4853 4 years ago

Add me to the list of people that talked to John and was talked out of it by pinball friends that got burned my skills are metal fabrication and 3d modeling

#4854 4 years ago
Quoted from Bonnevil69:

Add me to the list of people that talked to John and was talked out of it by pinball friends that got burned my skills are metal fabrication and 3d modeling

Hey, were you at Josh's last saturday?

Ya know, between the talented people floating around Chicago, we should all start our own small pinball company.

#4855 4 years ago

Well, as far as I'm concerned John announced FAST/Mission back in October, so he should just do what he said he was going to do and lets get this done with for F's sake.

#4856 4 years ago

At this rate, this thread will pass X-Men in posts. We're on page 98 already and not a prototype shown.

I think it's not good that we are still waiting for a Lebowski type reveal all these months later.

#4857 4 years ago

#4858 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Hey, were you at Josh's last saturday?
Ya know, between the talented people floating around Chicago, we should all start our own small pinball company.

Yep, I was there

#4859 4 years ago

What this thread needs is less redundancy, too many posts saying nothing. To save you the trouble, yes that includes this one

#4860 4 years ago

Just a quick word of advice for Fast/Mission from my perspective....... if you do work on this project make sure you receive payment prior to forwarding any programming to John. Based on everything we've seen and heard in this thread, it might be the only way you avoid working for free.

It may also keep you from quitting when you're asked to make dozen upon dozens upon dozens of revisions.

Unless you're going to do all this work out of the goodness of your heart, then knock yourselves out.

QSS

#4861 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Aaron knows Jpop, he knows what he's walking into, and he's still willing to do it.

Based on other comments, I tend to think that knowing him is one thing, working for/with him is another. Clearly some of the others who have done work with him, knew him and thought they knew what they were getting into.

Hopefully Aaron will tame the beast and folks will get their games.

#4862 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

I tend to think that knowing him is one thing, working for/with him is another.

being a customer is yet another

#4863 4 years ago
Quoted from BrianMadden:

If a brand new machine that I had never seen before showed up at my door (assuming the hardware was hooked up), it would literally only take a few hours to have a game running on it.

I'm calling BS, it would take a few hours just to read the massive amount of documentation

#4864 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

being a customer is yet another

So here is a question for you, given where we are, rank order these from least to most crazy (presented here in no particular order).

Vendor
Subcontractor/employee
Customer
pinsider's coming to this topic expecting meaningful news
Jpop

#4865 4 years ago

I think it's awesome that everyone is looking out for Brian and Aaron/Fast, but there's a few things worth noting:

1. People do a lot of work for free for the love of the product and the enjoyment of the process. I've been coding Buffy for "free" (payment in parts) and along the way I've coded the HD VGA fork of pyprocgame, the hardware accelerated rewrite of the hd vga framework, the graphical OSC client, Visual Pinball support for pyprocgame, and SkeletonGame. I'm not saying they shouldn't look out for their best interests, but there's a bigger picture here.

2. You can't underestimate the value of not getting paid. Something going wrong? You have the option to walk. It's great.

3. MPF will mature a LOT by partnering with JPop. Whether that partnership or MPF survive that process is anyone's guess, but nothing matures a platform faster than having users with non-standard demands, particularly for a game that's planning to be sold to customers. There's a big difference between a personal project game, a game that we expect others to use/play, those we expect to be on par with a commercial game, and then a crazy ambitious project (like a Jpop title).

Just my 2 cents.

#4866 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

I've coded the HD VGA fork of pyprocgame, the hardware accelerated rewrite of the hd vga framework,

Oh, and I've been sitting here twiddling my thumbs? Just joking of course, and I would certainly acknowledge that it was 93% you, 5% me and 2% me dangling shinny objects in front of you to get you to do the stuff I want.

#4867 4 years ago

There's a difference between a hobbyist working on something for free for fun, and a contractor doing work on spec, expecting to be paid, and then it magically turns into free work.

There have been people that have spoken up that have volunteered to work in his shop, and that is cool, that is their deal. But we've heard from many who got far more than they bargained for.

I'm guessing FAST/Mission are willing to put up with A LOT if it meant they had a really cool game to showcase their platform, so I get that. But it's "eyes wide open" now.

Based on what we've learned, the risk to them is likely doing months of work (for "free") and then losing the project because he went back to his original board system or something.

-1
#4868 4 years ago

**Content of post removed by mod**

17
#4869 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

**Content of post removed by mod**

I wish I could thumbs up the moderators

#4870 4 years ago

What I see is a bunch of "nice guys" optimistically trying to get in and solve the problem with teamwork. I get that, good for you. The problem is you will have to wrest power from a control freak with zero integrity as documented by his manipulation and deceit from day 1. My guess is he would rather blow the whole thing up than let somebody "take his project" from him. I hope to god people do not send in more money... if it works out that's great. But do not get into this any deeper than you already are.

#4871 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

**Content of post removed by mod**

Thread eject
Thank you Mods!

#4872 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

**Content of post removed by mod**
There is no reason for a post of this type. This is inflammatory and only designed to stir the pot. If you have any hard facts or evidence, you are welcome to start a proper thread with them, but this post is not appropriate.

Jpop was caught at minimum stretching the truth. Sad sack may live up to his name stirring things, but there's unsettling shit that has come to light... Lotta ins lotta outs.. Literally.

#4873 4 years ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelb:

Just a quick word of advice for Fast/Mission from my perspective....... if you do work on this project make sure you receive payment prior to forwarding any programming to John. Based on everything we've seen and heard in this thread, it might be the only way you avoid working for free.

This times a million. No net 30's, payment up front.

#4874 4 years ago

Next time someone is at Popaduik's place, just get him to box up one of the three MG prototype playfields and send it out west. That's all he needs to do. Then the MPF/Fast guys can handle the rest.

Iceman, do you think you could get him agree to do that?

#4875 4 years ago

Early on, I had requested an engineering platform to be able to be able to better do the work John wanted done. Even though he had enough proto (non-game specific) parts that could have been used for that purpose (and that were going to be scrapped anyway), he would not release any of it.

So...good luck with that.

#4876 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Next time someone is at Popaduik's place, just get him to box up one of the three MG prototype playfields and send it out west. That's all he needs to do. Then the MPF/Fast guys can handle the rest.
Iceman, do you think you could get him agree to do that?

The FAST guys have requested that he do this and JPOP has refused. I think the best we can hope for is that John would travel to the FAST guys with the playfield and have them work on it while he is there.

#4877 4 years ago

This really isn't required. You can do a lot of software development without the physical machine and then gain access when things are mostly in place (eg, using the keyboard for switch events, or the OSC client, or even visual pinball). The problems here are many, but I think access to the machine is only one piece of the puzzle.

That said, I /think/ I read a quote from Lyman Sheats that was something like "for every playfield there's one great game waiting to be coded, and 500 terrible ones" --giving people a platform to code a game is one thing, and making a fun game with that platform is another. Perhaps the most overlooked benefit of rapid development of the type MPF aims to deliver is that it could make scrapping a crap game and starting over a bit faster

#4878 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

The FAST guys have requested that he do this and JPOP has refused.

It's almost like Popaduik *wants* to fail.

#4879 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

**Content of post removed by mod**

I'm kinda sad I missed the flame...

#4880 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

This really isn't required. You can do a lot of software development without the physical machine and then gain access when things are mostly in place (eg, using the keyboard for switch events, or the OSC client, or even visual pinball). The problems here are many, but I think access to the machine is only one piece of the puzzle.
That said, I /think/ I read a quote from Lyman Sheats that was something like "for every playfield there's one great game waiting to be coded, and 500 terrible ones" --giving people a platform to code a game is one thing, and making a fun game with that platform is another. Perhaps the most overlooked benefit of rapid development of the type MPF aims to deliver is that it could make scrapping a crap game and starting over a bit faster

While you can program a game without a physical machine, configuring and optimizing all the hardware controlling it is best done with the game itself. We would do a full hardware workup, as well as dial-in any unfinished features before writing game code. Then we can be reasonably sure that those writing code can be setup for success. I don't know the exact state of the game and I would have to assume that if the hardware is not settled, then there is some work to be done to get it all ready to go.

The ideal situation would be to get a playfield to work on and get a good run down on the way it is intended to operate. This can be done with the playfield in our workshop and John on video chat. Then after a week or two, John comes out for a few days to see it up and running. In person we can focus on dialing in the hardware performance to his specifications (flipper strength, magnet timing, etc) and get into his head a bit. This will help us move quickly to programming the game while continuing to refine the game build.

I think this would be a great experience for John. In the couple weeks between sending MG out and coming out to work with us, he can focus on RAZA without anyone concerned about his lack of attention to MG.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4881 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

I'm kinda sad I missed the flame...

It was basically 4-5 paragraphs calling JPop a liar and a thief.

#4882 4 years ago

Both on and off topic.. And NSFW.. Dang you can't tilt you tube links!

#4883 4 years ago

^^^ I like the off

#4884 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Both on and off topic.. And NSFW.. Dang you can't tilt you tube links!
» YouTube video

OMG! What did I just see? I was half watching while writing code and I thought multiple YouTube videos were running together. Wow.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

-1
#4885 4 years ago

Seems the best option at this point is jpop gets so missed at all of this trashing and decides y'all don't deserve his game and issues full refunds!!!

#4886 4 years ago

I should of mentioned its 11 min

Quoted from fastpinball:

OMG! What did I just see? I was half watching while writing code and I thought multiple YouTube videos were running together. Wow.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4887 4 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

I should of mentioned its 11 min

and that there are too many cooks!

Marcus

#4888 4 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

That said, I /think/ I read a quote from Lyman Sheats that was something like "for every playfield there's one great game waiting to be coded, and 500 terrible ones"

I saw that in someone's signature:

There's a great Larry DeMar quote about this. You are looking at a whitewood with no rules. Larry liked to say, "There's one great game in there, but ninety-nine bad ones."

#4889 4 years ago

What do you want? Stern? Go buy a Stern, I have, several of them. Play the F out of them, I do.

Want something different? I do. Will it ever happen? I don't know. Can we hope and dream for something special? I do. Will it ever happen? Hopefully.

If it doesn't, life goes on. But I think it will happen.

So let's see what happens. The power of Teamwork!

-1
#4890 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

What do you want? Stern? Go buy a Stern, I have, several of them. Play the F out of them, I do.
Want something different? I do. Will it ever happen? I don't know. Can we hope and dream for something special? I do. Will it ever happen? Hopefully.
If it doesn't, life goes on. But I think it will happen.
So let's see what happens. The power of Teamwork!

Oh sweet, so jpop has agreed to outsource some of the needed work? That's great news!!! Good job to those who were able to get on board and help out jpop!!!

#4891 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Oh sweet, so jpop has agreed to outsource some of the needed work? That's great news!!! Good job to those who were able to get on board and help out jpop!!!

Isn't it great! Congrats everybody. And to the rest of the A holes, F off, nobody cares wtf you think.

#4892 4 years ago

Trouble is, to date everyone that has worked with John has had their relationship end in tears, frustration or anger. Everyone except the artist that is...

If you decide to try to help this project out, recognize that he will try to get what he can from you for free, you need to get paid in advance or on delivery.

-1
#4893 4 years ago
Quoted from RomstarArkanoid:

Trouble is, to date everyone that has worked with John has had their relationship end in tears, frustration or anger. Everyone except the artist that is...
If you decide to try to help this project out, recognize that he will try to get what he can from you for free, you need to get paid in advance or on delivery.

Everyone but the artist is a pretty bold statement
He got Rob Berry and Dr Dave Zabriske back from his William days.

#4894 4 years ago

That's fair. To clarify, everyone who went to the shop and built stuff, or supplied physical goods to further the project. The two people you mentioned worked with John on his games at Williams, I would have to wonder what their previous relationship with John was, and how it influenced their involvement. I cannot speak to that as I did not see any of their interactions.

It became very clear to me that he was going to proceed at his own pace, and do so with little input from the folks helping put it together in the shop. With no giant Williams machine behind him there is no one to keep him in check, or to have a plan for actual production, or a plan to make a game that is realistically producible in the first place.

#4895 4 years ago

Drac is back ...Drac is gone.
New image up now

#4898 4 years ago

I reslistened to JPOP from over 2 years ago on spooky. It's interesting some of the things he says. Here's an edited version:
http://www.filedropper.com/spookypinballpodcast24jpopedit

"check your egos at the door" (by making the blogs private, creating NDA's, and not allowing mission pinball to take a playfield to work on code for free)

"We prototyped pinball 2000 in under 2 weeks, and got it to production in 14 months"

"Some think I'm not working, that I'm just drinking coffee and driving around in a mercedes with the money they gave me"

"We work from about 5:30am to 1 at night, 7 days a week"

"Pinball is cyclical, so it's gonna last another 3-5 years and then we'll start to turn over and go back down again" (So the downturn is coming in another year)

#4899 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Isn't it great! Congrats everybody. And to the rest of the A holes, F off, nobody cares wtf you think.

I don't understand the downvote. You are in contact with JPOP, you just indicated that there is some sort of team work going on behind the scenes, is that not true? If not then why the post I quoted earlier?

#4900 4 years ago
Quoted from Roostking:

I don't understand the downvote. You are in contact with JPOP, you just indicated that there is some sort of team work going on behind the scenes, is that not true? If not then why the post I quoted earlier?

Your escalating exclamation points read as sarcasm (at least to me and the iceman, evidently).

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