(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#4801 4 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Talked with him a year or so ago about doing some programming for him.

There's probably a blog post from then announcing a new hire.

#4802 4 years ago

I mentioned long ago that code was one of the key components no one was talking about... glad to see it's finally on the table to add to an open discussion with JPop.

#4803 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

Sorry. There was also an NDA in effect. He was pretty emphatic about my not sharing that I was doing work with him. "I prefer to let the work speak for itself". If he didn't want me talking about good stuff, I wasn't about to start spouting off about bad stuff. All I needed was for his project to go south and for him to start looking for a scape goat to hang a lawsuit on.

Sorry to hear about the issues with John and I really do think he'd be the last one I'd be worried about bringing on a lawsuit.

Definitely very consistent with the other people I've spoken to as well.

All that being said, what's happened in the past doesn't really change a thing as to where we are at right now.

In John's mind, he had a hardware system already, same as Quetzel, then Aaron came along as a potential alternative to MAYBE get these projects off dead center, moving down the road and out the door.

Like Aurich said, despite all the time already spent/wasted, it's worth having an OPTION B with FAST and seeing what they can do with MG, imho.

If they were to get involved along with the Mission guys could we have our pins twice as fast, or at least have a better shot at actually getting them at all.

No harm no foul. If you can take the Mission platform and program ANY game in a few months that would be STUPID not to consider it versus having to spend 17 to 18 months like Ben did to build up a game specific framework.

I don't really care what's happened in the past, I want this thing to come together and get completed in the best and quickest way possible. That's all that matters to me.

#4804 4 years ago

For Aaron it's a "proof of life" effort and the ability to prove the viability of what they have across 3 pins.

That's at least 300-400 pins, we hope! It's not charity.

#4805 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

If that's not in place then Aaron and Brian should walk. Nothing but headaches down that road. And they can't make that happen without the owner pressure. That's why I'm suggesting that you just rally around people who are willing to walk into the lion's den, and say "this is how things can get done, you owe us that, make it happen".

Brian and I (and the rest of the crew) are very eager to show off what it is we are all working. We also know that time and energy is not infinite.

I do know the JPOP beast. I call him a friend. We message, talk on the phone. Have shared crazy ideas for pins. He is a great designer, that X-factor in pinball design that seeks to give well engineered hardware, elegant software, beautiful artwork, solid craftsmanship, sleek animations, moving sound, etc. it's soul. One who I would love to learn from. I have worked with people like John before and been able to do some great things. Big and small. So when the owners reached out, we decided it was worth revisiting the situation and see if we could align interests and come up with a win.

Indie pinball operations cant all afford to keep a team of programmers/engineers/animators/etc on the payroll year round. Nor should they need to. And the time it takes to bring contract labor up to speed on things isnt always quick enough to keep up the momentum. We see scenario where designers can develop/prototype their games to whatever stage they feel comfortable and then be able to tap us in to help it come to fruition. If you are using FAST/MPF we can drop in and be ultra efficient. I find it really exciting because I love to problem solve. The idea of being a resource to other rad projects and help them to be as great as they can be is something I personally find very satisfying.

Our goal for the spring is to build up a game to show off the capabilities of the hardware and software. We will either be building up a game of our own or helping John with MG. Either way, we have budgeted the time to do the work it would take for a demonstration. This is time we would gladly trade towards getting John's MG rocking. Win-win.

Now business. Hell yeah we want to sell hardware. No doubt about that. We designed the hardware the way we did to use a small bill of materials, without sacrificing quality. This gets us great economies of scale. Even lets us manufacture the hardware stateside. As hardware volume increases, price per unit drops. While John has relatively short run games, when you merge a parts order to include MG/RAZA we are into the range of savings that really take the cost concern out of the equation. Our goal was to hit pricing at count 1 that was a good value for a solid platform that can take you from your custom game/prototype on through to a commercial release. But also scale up for a good price for volume orders.

So anyway, I guess my point in all this is that we are super stoked to get cracking on something. Timing is good as the hardware is out for manufacturing and the framework is maturing every day. Time to put it all to the test.

Getting to know many of the JPOP owners has been awesome. For real. Passionate people who care a lot about pinball and about John and want to see him make games for years to come. We are really giving this one more shot for the owners. But as we all know, it is John's decision. Regardless of what he decides with regards to our involvement, FAST/Mission are stoked to be a part of pinball and are looking forward to showing off what we can do in the days to come.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4806 4 years ago

Dang, posts never look that long when you are typing them! Sorry for such a lengthy post.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4807 4 years ago

What's JPop's current hardware platform for MG and RAZA?

#4808 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Dang, posts never look that long when you are typing them! Sorry for such a lengthy post.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Welcome to my world.

#4809 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

he was willing to work on Experts of Disaster.

Freudian slip or intentional, that was funny.

#4810 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Freudian slip or intentional, that was funny.

I will admit to childishly (and constantly) not spelling that game's name right.

#4811 4 years ago

So, I have an idea.

Let's get me, the FAST guys, Aurich, and some others and let's create the first professional services group for pinball.

#4812 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

So, I have an idea.
Let's get me, the FAST guys, Aurich, and some others and let's create the first professional services group for pinball.

Are you sure you haven't been talking to Aaron already?

#4813 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Are you sure you haven't been talking to Aaron already?

I'd totally be in. What a fun ride that would be.

#4814 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Are you sure you haven't been talking to Aaron already?

Did you tell him to?

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4815 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I'd totally be in. What a fun ride that would be.

Sure would! That's why we are chomping at the bit to get going on something!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4816 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Did you tell him to?
Aaron
FAST Pinball

This time I had no behind the scenes manipulations!

#4817 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

This time I had no behind the scenes manipulations!

Strategic networking!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4818 4 years ago

If John posted this on Oct 21, 2014 about Mission/FAST :

"We were able to solidify an ongoing working arrangement with Mission Pinball and Fast Pinball guys from Seattle last week. Effectively doubling our backend team. "

What is the hold up today?

#4819 4 years ago

Now that all is feeling nice and cozy, are there any links to some new RAZA pics, photos, details, a flipper?? Lots of folks dropping in on JPop but no body brings a camera? Oh come on...

All I've seen is a new "Drac is Back" graphic. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place?

Kumbaya ya'll....

kumbaya.jpg

#4820 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Strategic networking!
Aaron
FAST Pinball

If you guys are cooking something up and want an extra brain, don't hesitate to let me know.

I like the way you guys operate.

#4821 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

If John posted this on Oct 21, 2014 about Mission/FAST :
"We were able to solidify an ongoing working arrangement with Mission Pinball and Fast Pinball guys from Seattle last week. Effectively doubling our backend team. "
What is the hold up today?

I mean, basically John was lying and that was bullshit. There's not really a nice way to say that. Well maybe there is, I think Aaron said it nicely earlier. But that's the clear way to say it.

#4822 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

If John posted this on Oct 21, 2014 about Mission/FAST :
"We were able to solidify an ongoing working arrangement with Mission Pinball and Fast Pinball guys from Seattle last week. Effectively doubling our backend team. "
What is the hold up today?

To be honest I was surprised to read this. I visited John's shop in Oct after the Expo with the FAST guys, and we were blown away by everything just like everyone else who visited. We talked about different options for working together, but I was eager to get home to wrap up the software and Aaron and Dave were eager to wrap up the hardware. Months passed, and here we are. I actually didn’t know we were on the hook until the blog opened up.

#4823 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I mean, basically John was lying and that was bullshit. There's not really a nice way to say that. Well maybe there is, I think Aaron said it nicely earlier. But that's the clear way to say it.

What is crazy is on the very same day, John posted:

"Lying to customers is not the way I work, to make them go away for a while."

He can be a very nice person, and obviously is capable of doing some very cool work, but the picture being painted in this thread is not good.

#4824 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

If John posted this on Oct 21, 2014 about Mission/FAST :
"We were able to solidify an ongoing working arrangement with Mission Pinball and Fast Pinball guys from Seattle last week. Effectively doubling our backend team. "
What is the hold up today?

.

Quoted from Aurich:

I mean, basically John was lying and that was bullshit. There's not really a nice way to say that. Well maybe there is, I think Aaron said it nicely earlier. But that's the clear way to say it.

Amazing.

Supposedly FAST was on board 5 months ago according to JPop. Only they weren't.

#4825 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

"Lying to customers is not the way I work, to make them go away for a while."

That apparently was a lie too.

#4826 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

This is a story I've heard at least ten times now, and my experience was the same.

Hook up with John, enthusiastically offer free/cheap help because it's fun to be on a pinball project with a guy considered a top designer.

Couldn't have said it better Mike. I forgot about that EM blow off story.

Look, John is a REALLY nice guy, he has great innovative ideas (usually, sometimes it's a rehash of something from a really old pinball machine nobody's seen for a long time because he really is very retro in his personality). He's super passionate about pinball (it oozes from his skin).

I volunteered after hearing him on a podcast saying he needed help, yet the work trailed off after about the 3rd project, and when I asked him why he wasn't responding to my emails he finally replied "you can pickup a phone". Dude you asked for volunteers and you got them, and now you're upset I'm not chasing you to work for free? He's also very vague in what he wants, and I often had to pull parts from my own pinballs so I could model them in 3d because all he sent were photos making it impossible to model from *I take that back, he once gave me a pop bumper body and a cap*

I really hope these machines DO get done, it would be such a shame for all that money and work to go to waste.

#4827 4 years ago

John did the same thing with Chad the "project manager".

The firing squad was loading weapons after expo.

He needed something positive and I guess you could say he was embellishing a bit

#4828 4 years ago

Luckily FAST/Mission are easier to work with than Fox when falsely announcing something. Yeah i said it.

16
#4829 4 years ago

Heck
PROC
GLM
DK Pinball

The trail of programmers, designers, minions, project managers, etc... I guess we are all difficult to work with and overly demanding. There are so many people who are too nice to say anything publicly. I'm a pretty nice guy too, so this will be my last post like this, it's just been driving me crazy seeing guy after guy getting JPOPed. Another post about how someone talked to him and they are sure that this time everything is on track really just was too much.

Hey I wish the new guys the best but this really reads like the guy who has been married 6 times and wife number 7 is just sure she can fix him.

#4830 4 years ago

Would love to here from Antonio about the state of his board system. If we end up with FAST, is he another guy that ended up working for free to have his work junked?

#4831 4 years ago

Working for free is bad for morale.

#4832 4 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Working for free is bad for morale

Yes, but it also buys you the freedom to walk away when you want. If you work for cheap, even if you aren't properly compensated, the person paying will always feel like you owe them something. That can be much worse than free.

#4833 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

Hey I wish the new guys the best but this really reads like the guy who has been married 6 times and wife number 7 is just sure she can fix him.

She can't by herself. But she needs to bring the whole family down on the dude to shape up or he's out of the will.

#4834 4 years ago

With the significant amount of money raised, I don't understand why people are being asked to work for free. Working for credit against an upcoming macbine makes sense as trade, but asking people to work for free for a for profit company doesn't make sense.

#4835 4 years ago

I guess I still don't see the path to any real leverage on Jpop to not be the boss anymore... I.e.what happens when the first thing he disagrees with like paying somebody for their work comes up.. Is he really going to let go? His personality seems like this is impossible?

Are you going to hold lawsuit over his head or what? I

#4836 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

With the significant amount of money raised, I don't understand why people are being asked to work for free. Working for credit against an upcoming macbine makes sense as trade, but asking people to work for free for a for profit company doesn't make sense.

Not only that(IMO), but a machine that is in the 5-figure range, that only a handful of fortunate people will be able to own, and most likely won't put on route. Oh yes, peasant, you can work for free to build that tower, but you may never set foot in it.

Not exactly "pinball for the people". In fact, quite the opposite.

#4837 4 years ago

Having owners show up and work for a few hours/days in the shop is one thing, but these are not buyers. These are people looking to get paid and then have the terms changed on them. Really not liking what I'm hearing.

#4838 4 years ago
Quoted from BrianMadden:

If a brand new machine that I had never seen before showed up at my door (assuming the hardware was hooked up), it would literally only take a few hours to have a game running on it. I don't mean just having flippers flipping and knocking a ball around--I'm talking an actual playable game. Players, shots, scoring, DMD and/or LCD with lots of real info, etc. Give another few hours and we can make some light shows, and another few hours and we can make some modes.

This is the guy for the job for the software/board-work..!!, Let's get a production team together.!!

#4839 4 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

Heck
PROC
GLM
DK Pinball
The trail of programmers, designers, minions, project managers, etc... I guess we are all difficult to work with and overly demanding. There are so many people who are too nice to say anything publicly. I'm a pretty nice guy too, so this will be my last post like this, it's just been driving me crazy seeing guy after guy getting JPOPed. Another post about how someone talked to him and they are sure that this time everything is on track really just was too much.
Hey I wish the new guys the best but this really reads like the guy who has been married 6 times and wife number 7 is just sure she can fix him.

What would you suggest the owners do? Nothing?

I'd be pissed too if I was treated that way and would probably blast away as well. What's done is done and its buyer beware, and he's obviously burned through a lot of people, but we want our pins finished and because we do, he has to change, that simple.

#4840 4 years ago
Quoted from limelime20:

This is the guy for the job for the software/board-work..!!, Let's get a production team together.!!

Seen it in person.

image.jpg

Brian brought the Portable Pin to life on MPF in no time. While fighting a migraine.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4841 4 years ago

Your two beautiful people on the Jpop Job. Thank you.!

#4842 4 years ago
Quoted from limelime20:

Your two beautiful people on the Jpop Job. Thank you.!

Lol. Roy and I are outside that shot. That's Brian and Dave.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4843 4 years ago

Nevermind, staying out of it.

#4844 4 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

Wouldn't just taking back all remaining money, seizing the prototypes and all IP related to the cash put in, and then either refunding the original owners or handing it to someone else be just as good? There is no support right now, who is going to support these games 5 years from now when something breaks like a ramp or board? It just seems like cutting your losses might be just as valid an option.

Well after all this time I certainly don't want to go down that road. It would be a nightmarish disaster trying to figure out who is entitled to what and then getting funds distributed properly to people.

If FAST and Mission get involved I wouldn't be worried about hardware and software support, more relieved. At this point, I really hope that we actually have any sort of pins to support 5 years from now!

Another option would be that if John isn't able to pull it together quickly, and I mean the shot clock has already run out, then its conceivable he could have to hand off the projects to others and he just does what he does, focus on pinball design.

In some form or fashion, ownership/joint venture, you name it, that is essentially what is going on right now. These pins have to be handed off to get done. And its time to pay for the help.

Despite the past with John, I'm cautiously optimistic.

#4845 4 years ago
Quoted from s1500:

Not only that(IMO), but a machine that is in the 5-figure range, that only a handful of fortunate people will be able to own, and most likely won't put on route. Oh yes, peasant, you can work for free to build that tower, but you may never set foot in it.
Not exactly "pinball for the people". In fact, quite the opposite.

I don't think these can be put on route, or he will not support you if issues arise. Class act!!-

#4846 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

With the significant amount of money raised, I don't understand why people are being asked to work for free. Working for credit against an upcoming macbine makes sense as trade, but asking people to work for free for a for profit company doesn't make sense.

Didn't you know, it's jpops new project!!

Pinballs for Humanity.

rd.

#4847 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Having owners show up and work for a few hours/days in the shop is one thing, but these are not buyers. These are people looking to get paid and then have the terms changed on them. Really not liking what I'm hearing.

When I bought my Lexus, I popped down the Lexus plant a few days a week and screwed the doors on.

Worked out quite sweet.

rd.

#4848 4 years ago
Quoted from boo32:

With the significant amount of money raised, I don't understand why people are being asked to work for free. Working for credit against an upcoming macbine makes sense as trade, but asking people to work for free for a for profit company doesn't make sense.

Isn't this how most projects go? You know like the manager pisses off all the staff or fires them, then gets way behind on all his work, makes up stuff about who's doing the work now and current progress, then his customers come in and do the work for him while he gets paid. Pretty standard stuff really, I see it all the time.

Obviously just kidding. I'm sure something will get worked out, the games look great from the photos we've seen.

#4849 4 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

Isn't this how most projects go? You know like the manager pisses off all the staff or fires them, then gets way behind on all his work, makes up stuff about who's doing the work now and current progress, then his customers come in and do the work for him while he gets paid. Pretty standard stuff really, I see it all the time.

You seem to have a super awesome sense of passive aggressiveness and sarcasm. Please don't take that the wrong way. I'm impressed.

Are you by chance from or living in the pacific northwest?

#4850 4 years ago

Nope, not from NW.

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