(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#4701 4 years ago

Who is/was the programmer that John announced on the raza blog January 10th?

11
#4702 4 years ago

I started programming AMH September 2012. We had a prototype PF by MGC 2013, the one we demoed in the Zombies cabinet. That wasn't a production PF (by a long shot) but everything was there shots / gameplay-wise.

By MGC 2014 Chuck had made the game ready for manufacture and I had completed the code. By this I mean all intended modes were present and the game could be won.

So that's 17 months of programming just to get to that point.

Did bug tweaks after MGC 2014, games started shipping. Did another big code update just before Expo last year, and just released one yesterday as well.

20 months of programming (in my spare time) to date is a good estimate, and that was for a DMD game.

#4703 4 years ago

I want to say that the reason we are making a renewed effort to help provide John with the support he needs to make his games is because of the owners who reached out. In the end, if we don't end up being the right solution for John, it will be because he decided there was a better solution for him to deliver on his vision.

Our intention was to develop our platform for the next generation of games designers may be dreaming up and not try to convince existing projects to change up their platform. So our possible involvement in John's games already in progress was because we were sought out as an option to consider. When our hardware is publicly released we can truly have our hat in the ring with other solutions.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4704 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I started programming AMH September 2012. We had a prototype PF by MGC 2013, the one we demoed in the Zombies cabinet. That wasn't a production PF (by a long shot) but everything was there shots / gameplay-wise.
By MGC 2014 Chuck had made the game ready for manufacture and I had completed the code. By this I mean all intended modes were present and the game could be won.
So that's 17 months of programming just to get to that point.
Did bug tweaks after MGC 2014, games started shipping. Did another big code update just before Expo last year, and just released one yesterday as well.
20 months of programming (in my spare time) to date is a good estimate, and that was for a DMD game.

One difference on the programming front has been the development of the Mission Pinball Framework along side out hardware development. A lot of game generic development (all the stuff all games need) has been completed and just needs to be applied to the specific game. This is why the solution we intend to present is what we see as the faster way to bring these games to life. But I can't say I know how long or that there won't be unforeseen problems. Check out missionpinball.com/framework

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4705 4 years ago

Aww, I love P-Roc also and Gerry I consider a friend. I'd be torn to see any squabbling here...

#4706 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Does anyone know what is the hardware John has running now in the game?

When I visited I was told he was using the Quetzal pinball controller (a modified version of the NEMO hardware) developed by Antonio in Spain. I've never heard him announce an actual programmer, but know someone was working on the menu system as far back as two expos ago. Whether it went anywhere or was scrapped remains a mystery to me.

-10
#4707 4 years ago

I have to laugh at people who say JPOP isn't getting anything done. Anybody who has visited him in the past few months is probably chuckling too. And yes, the focus right now is on nothing else but getting these 2 titles finished and shipped...

17
#4708 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

I have to laugh at people who say JPOP isn't getting anything done. Anybody who has visited him in the past few months is probably chuckling too. And yes, the focus right now is on nothing else but getting these 2 titles finished and shipped...

Besides the people who have money in none of us really knew anything but what people reported here. Now we can see what you all saw. You say you laugh at people, assuming people with money in, who say nothing is getting done. Is that their fault? From the blogs it certainly doesn't look like much was accomplished lately. That's johns fault. Don't laugh at people who were starved for info. It's not their fault.

#4709 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

I have to laugh at people who say JPOP isn't getting anything done. Anybody who has visited him in the past few months is probably chuckling too. And yes, the focus right now is on nothing else but getting these 2 titles finished and shipped...

Hopefully he reveals it to everyone.

#4710 4 years ago
Quoted from Strohz:

When I visited I was told he was using the Quetzal pinball controller (a modified version of the NEMO hardware) developed by Antonio in Spain. Of course, we know how well that project has done since then. I've never heard him announce an actual programmer, but know someone was working on the menu system as far bask as two expos ago. Whether it went anywhere or was scrapped remains a mystery to me.

It was a board made with Antonio. Produced by Great Lakes Modular, I believe. I wonder how that turned out.

Edit: After posting I found out that GLM didn't produce the control board, Tony produced other parts for John.

#4711 4 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

I have to laugh at people who say JPOP isn't getting anything done. Anybody who has visited him in the past few months is probably chuckling too. And yes, the focus right now is on nothing else but getting these 2 titles finished and shipped...

I have to ask - are you in on one of the games?

#4712 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

It was a board made with Antonio. Produced by Great Lakes Modular, I believe. I wonder how that turned out.

Apparently with GLM not getting paid and not supplying anymore boards.

#4713 4 years ago

So let me get this straight.
Feb. 4, 2014 we had a blog post of J Pop opening up a box of driver boards.
These boards were a revision to a board he had been testing since the summer of 2013.
It is now March of 2015 and we are still at square one for the hardware?

If so, how was there going to be a flipping MG back in December and Raza last month?
If the hardware and programming are still in early stages, how are the games, as StevenP states, 90% and 80% done?

#4714 4 years ago
Quoted from Shrub_Light:

So let me get this straight.
Feb. 4, 2014 we had a blog post of J Pop opening up a box of driver boards.
These boards were a revision to a board he had been testing since the summer of 2013.
It is now March of 2015 and we are still at square one for the hardware?
If so, how was there going to be a flipping MG back in December and Raza last month?
If the hardware and programming are still in early stages, how are the games, as StevenP states, 90% and 80% done?

I'm 100% behind Jpop and his vision. But some games need to be shown working quick-like.

Shrub is right and it doesn't take a very much scrutiny to find things that don't look so good. I just read. the. entire. thread. It's deja vu all over again x100. At very best things are VERY WAY behind schedule. At worse, maybe some games don't get made. Nobody wants that.

But, I don't believe anybody wants or would accept some watered down Zidware game. John's ideas and imagination are something special, that's why all the wonderment and appreciation.

I hope these games get made. I hope to some day have an Alice.

drain

#4715 4 years ago

So, whatever people have flipped in his shop, that is "90%" done, is being driven by boards that won't be used and will be junked?

And just like all the art revisions that got thrown out, all the work done on boards and programming will be thrown to the dust bin to start over with?

And people want to pretend this will be done anytime soon?

#4716 4 years ago
Quoted from notaflyingtoy:

I hope to some day have an Alice.

Please pre-order, so I have a chance to get my RAZA.

#4717 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

So, whatever people have flipped in his shop, that is "90%" done, is being driven by boards that won't be used and will be junked?
And just like all the art revisions that got thrown out, all the work done on boards and programming will be thrown to the dust bin to start over with?
And people want to pretend this will be done anytime soon?

Yes, you're correct. Additionally, StevenP is chuckling that others like you, are doubtful.
: )

#4718 4 years ago

.

#4719 4 years ago

When JPop sold some P-ROC and other PDB boards of Gerry's on the other forum, I'm the one who bought them. I can assure you that they work just fine.

What can't be done with the p-roc+PDB boards? We have seen lots of alpha numeric, dmd, and full-color games out there built on the platform. I'd say a pretty good number of games have been made and some (admittedly few) have been sold, but I'd include CCC and BoP2 in the list of titles that prove the P-roc as tried and true.

Since we know there's no technical hardware limitations that really justify not using a p-roc based boardset (and it would be dubious at best for anyone to imply otherwise), the reason not to go with PinballControllers has to be either financial, political, personal, personnel (ie, no one to code in Python (pyprocgame), C++ (libpinproc) or C# (netprocgame)), or some combination of these factors. Since you guys are talking about using MPF, seems a lack of available developers was clearly a factor.

I read Eric's post as: there absolutely is more of a story here, and some of us wish we knew it. You can sure add me to the curious list!

Quoted from fastpinball:

My point was that John has looked at all options and is continuing to do so. If he wanted to use proc he could have years ago.
But you seem to have insight on this decision and can probably speak to it better than I.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4720 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

So, whatever people have flipped in his shop, that is "90%" done, is being driven by boards that won't be used and will be junked?
And just like all the art revisions that got thrown out, all the work done on boards and programming will be thrown to the dust bin to start over with?
And people want to pretend this will be done anytime soon?

Honestly, if Aaron and FAST get ahold of it, they'll be a million times faster taking over by putting in the hardware they know and designed. So replacing the hardware isn't really as bad as it sounds, it's really part of the stumbling block right now.

Tell you what, be a hell of a test of the Mission framework to see how fast they can get basic rules functioning on a flipable game. People might be surprised at the speed of that. Still plenty of work to program the rest, but that's the kind of thing where a programmer can sit with a functioning prototype and just work independently of anything else.

That's why getting hardware up and running fast (no pun intended) would be advantageous, it would parallelize the work.

#4721 4 years ago

EDIT: Clarifying my post. I was just referring to programmers being expensive if they're full time, nothing more.

#4722 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

It was a board made with Antonio. Produced by Great Lakes Modular, I believe. I wonder how that turned out.

That is correct. Per John and the prior "project manager", the hardware is "done" and already implemented in Quetzel's Nemo pin.

I believe Tony of GLM said he's been paid on 8 invoices and there are a couple still outstanding, correct me if I'm wrong Tony.

Aaron with FAST and the Mission guys have a modular and soup to nuts hardware/software platform that from what I understand is "taking the possibilities of pinball forward" and much easier to integrate and implement.

One possibility would be to have an MG play field sent to Seattle to have those guys populate it and get it flipping on their platform in a very short amount of time and then ready for production over a set timeline of say MG by June, correct me if I'm wrong Aaron.

It's not that John is scrapping the GLM boards, its just creating an option B possibility that has come along with Aaron and Mission. If it works, we customers get a better pinball machine without any delay, probably quicker.

Those guys are talking and I'm not sure what John is going to do but we will see shortly.

He's at the stage of needing that "project manager" to bring it all together and get them built.

I'll get an update in a few days.

#4723 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

One possibility would be to have an MG play field sent to Seattle to have those guys populate it and get it flipping on their platform in a very short amount of time and then ready for production over a set timeline of say MG by June, correct me if I'm wrong Aaron.

June is coming up quick. I am sure we could have significant amount of progress by then, if the playfield showed up soon. I threw out the June timeframe because it is when we have our NW Pinball Show and it would be fun to have a meet-up to show off the progress to owners who may be in town. Based on the state of the progress John could even offer a public preview. I think that would be a fantastic challenge!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4724 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Honestly, if Aaron and FAST get ahold of it, they'll be a million times faster taking over by putting in the hardware they know and designed. So replacing the hardware isn't really as bad as it sounds, it's really part of the stumbling block right now.
Tell you what, be a hell of a test of the Mission framework to see how fast they can get basic rules functioning on a flipable game. People might be surprised at the speed of that. Still plenty of work to program the rest, but that's the kind of thing where a programmer can sit with a functioning prototype and just work independently of anything else.
That's why getting hardware up and running fast (no pun intended) would be advantageous, it would parallelize the work.

It would be an awesome challenge. With John's permission we could live blog the progress or something. Have some fun with it. But we seriously do love a challenge. Plus John has done the hard part: designing the game. For us it would just be following through on bringing his vision to life.

But we will see what shapes up. If John goes a different direction then we will focus on another playfield to show off the hardware/software in action for June.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4725 4 years ago

I should say that without knowing all the details of the state of the game development and whether or not all the toys have been fully conceived, we cannot specifically say just how far we could get on the game by when. So the idea of a challenge, like mentioned above, would need to be based on exactly what needs to be done. I dont want to make too many assumptions.

So if John chose to go with us, we would work with him to make some aggressive goals and share progress as he sees appropriate.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

-4
#4726 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

It would be an awesome challenge. With John's permission we could live blog the progress or something. Have some fun with it. But we seriously do love a challenge. Plus John has done the hard part: designing the game. For us it would just be following through on bringing his vision to life.
But we will see what shapes up. If John goes a different direction then we will focus on another playfield to show off the hardware/software in action for June.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

And how much are you charging for your hardware? Let's hear numbers. You certainly wouldn't be doing this out of the goodness of your heart, "challenge" or not -- this is to make a profit. Would John have to dumb down his designs to accommodate the added cost? Are you going to raise prices once MG ships, and leave the RAZA owners high and dry? You wield a shit-ton of power when you own the platform that others depend on. Unless you were licensing the actual board design, this sounds scary.

#4727 4 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

I have no doubts that they can get it up flipping fast, probably in a day (I think that you can get a p-roc to that state in a day). Flipping though is a lot different than ruleset + dmd animations + additional hardware feature support, etc. There's just a lot of work to be done. I guess I don't know if this is their full time job or not, I assume not due to the lack of money available...as a good experienced programmer is 100k + benefits. If it's their full time job they'll get it done much faster.

I dont understand your comment about lack of money available. For what? Do you mean John not having money available?

Or are you talking about us? The guys who are writing the Mission Pinball Framework are clearly programming it. There isn't a person in our inner circle who doesn't write code. We have the time to put in.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4728 4 years ago
Quoted from retro_p:

And how much are you charging for your hardware? Let's hear numbers. You certainly wouldn't be doing this out of the goodness of your heart, "challenge" or not -- this is to make a profit. Would John have to dumb down his designs to accommodate the added cost? Are you going to raise prices once MG ships, and leave the RAZA owners high and dry? You wield a shit-ton of power when you own the platform that others depend on. Unless you were licensing the actual board design, this sounds scary.

Man, you really dont like us do ya?

We have shared numbers on pinside before: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fast-pinball/page/2#post-2027270

For John, I would bid a volume price combining MG and RAZA, as MG numbers alone are too low to benefit from volume.

Have you ever run a business before? Why on earth would we make hardware and then come up with a horrible pricing scheme that screws customers? You are certainly painting a perverse picture of how you imagine we would attempt to abuse customers. What is your intention with your scare tactic comments? Trolling?

Aaron
FAST Pinball

-2
#4729 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Man, you really dont like us do ya?
We have shared numbers on pinside before: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fast-pinball/page/2#post-2027270
For John, I would bid a volume price combining MG and RAZA, as MG numbers alone are too low to benefit from volume.
Have you ever run a business before? Why on earth would we make hardware and then come up with a horrible pricing scheme that screws customers? You are certainly painting a perverse picture of how you imagine we would attempt to abuse customers. What is your intention with your scare tactic comments? Trolling?
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Don't take the questions personally. I've just seen every nasty business manuver in the book at one time or another, and these are just questions that should be asked.

In retrospect, the post might have been a little heavy-handed; DST is kicking my butt.

You're one of the good guys, Aaron. Not to worry.

#4730 4 years ago
Quoted from retro_p:

Don't take the questions personally.

Then maybe try to not ask them so rudely?

#4731 4 years ago

You don't get to run your own business for 15 years by doing shady business. You don't know me and I don't know you, so I am over it.

There has got to be "that guy" keeping pinside threads negative, right?

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#4732 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Per John and the prior "project manager", the hardware is "done" and already implemented in Quetzel's Nemo pin. It's not that John is scrapping the GLM boards, its just creating an option B possibility that has come along with Aaron and Mission.

That is such an ODD choice of hardware:
http://www.pinballnews.com/games/captainnemo/index3.html

Also when did this change? When I was at his studio 2 years ago, I swear he was running some sort of PROC system because he showed me a raspberry pi in the bottom of the cabinet running the DMD.

#4733 4 years ago

I'm not concerned as much with FAST's cost, as I am the WASTE of throwing away previous solutions.

Now fine, someone could make a compelling argument that FAST is the best solution to go forward with, despite the waste, but I'm still pissed at the true cost of throwing good work away. Call John frugal all you want for keeping the heat down at his shop, but how much has been spent on art revisions, re-theming, cash burn, boards, programmers, all that work that gets done 2 or 3 times over?

The GLM boards have apparently been tested for years. Programmers have worked on creating whats in the game so far. But all of that stopped for some reason in the past? (and we were never told about it and left to believe a "reveal" of the finished game was coming)

And here we are years behind schedule, with no idea when we might be done, with talk of money running out and the buyers who put their money at risk years ago now have to accept that the risk they took for a truly limited item was for nothing and anyone else can hop aboard at the end, just to raise the cash needed to produce the games?

I'm just venting here. This has been such a frustrating experience.

#4734 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm just venting here. This has been such a frustrating experience.

Total frustration station from an outsider who just can't swing on a sweet big dollar pin like this. With what I know as a coder and that opinion being backed by BenHeck; coding a pin is a huge effort. They need to pick something and go. The game can ship with crap code as proven by Stern and JJP. We're still talking a year+ of dev time to cook to decent maturity.

#4735 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm not concerned as much with FAST's cost, as I am the WASTE of throwing away previous solutions.

Yup. Originally John was going to use P-ROC, but Gerry didn't want to re-design (test and manufacture) the board (for free) so that John could have one with features he didn't want/need to use stripped out and sell it to him cheaper - plus, he said, he didn't want to be 'beholden' to a competitor (since Gerry was going to make P3). So he spent a great deal of time & effort having Antonio make a new board for him and the programmer he had working at the time (who is not any longer due to non-payment) do a lot of testing and such, and they switched to his new custom board, which was close enough in operation to the P-ROC that the existing code base would run on it -- so at least THAT time wasn't wasted.

Now apparently Aaron is lobbying to have him switch again so he's got a client for his hardware? Hope they all like working for free.

#4736 4 years ago

Interesting, puts some context around
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6mg-raza-and-aiw%e2%80%a6/page/18#post-1985473

Lots of irony to go around if this is all true given jpops secrecy / worried about everyone stealing his ideas.

#4737 4 years ago

There's also this post, which is more clear now:

there's actually another MFG who appears to have made a nearly exact replica of the P-ROC after nearly a year of dedicated engineering support from us. I agree it doesn't make business sense, but it happened, and I'm quite sure you'd be surprised to learn who it is.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/multimorphic-public-update-august-2014#post-1839798

#4738 4 years ago

I knew that one was out there but I couldn't find it. I hope nemo guy got paid for reverse engineering the board and respinning it.. But prob not.. John seems to seek out volunteer work whenever possible. File that under penny wise / pound foolish.

#4739 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Please pre-order, so I have a chance to get my RAZA.

Sorry for your situation but.....f that noise..

#4740 4 years ago

I love seeing the positive energy and good vibes that are back in this project. Would be great for the community to come together and get MG and RAZA out the door.

#4741 4 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

You don't get to run your own business for 15 years by doing shady business. You don't know me and I don't know you, so I am over it.
There has got to be "that guy" keeping pinside threads negative, right?
Aaron
FAST Pinball

His point is valid. With vendor lock-in and no access to an outside programmer, you would be free to set your price. Vendor lock-in is always a concern. I'm a lot less concerned about the form of the questions than the substance.

I think we have a really big misconception on this board understanding the difference between "negative" trolling and valid concerns. I , too, wonder how FAST has all this slack time to volunteer programming your controller for the love of the game. I never thought "love of the game" could pay for rent or groceries.

#4742 4 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

It was a board made with Antonio. Produced by Great Lakes Modular, I believe. I wonder how that turned out.

Small update to this - GLM didn't produce the controller board. Tony did other projects for John.

#4743 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm not concerned as much with FAST's cost, as I am the WASTE of throwing away previous solutions.

That's really what R & D is all about isn't it? Obviously 4 years is a long time and I would think John would be a fool not to look at better options that come along over that period of time, IF there wasn't a delay on getting pins out.

In fact, I believe its a really good cya move on his part if he chooses to explore the FAST option.

So IF we get better hardware and software support over the long term, with future upgrade possiblities, we get a better pin that is in line with "taking pinball forward", not backwards.

Alternatively, he may just end up taking what's already done and run with it for at least MG. Its good to have options that won't delay anything further, but may provide a better solution long term.

#4744 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

That's really what R & D is all about isn't it?

This isn't really a case of researching and developing to fill a need. The PROC WOULD have run the games fine. John could have saved the expense and time and just used that.

But he made his own board. Now THAT runs the games fine.

There's no real need to shift to new hardware and start over unless he doesn't have someone currently working on the game code and the offer from Fast & MP is "we'll do this if ..."

#4745 4 years ago

I would agree an "off the shelf" product would have been much better, and maybe still is. That could easily have been p-roc, as Lebowski has shown us how quickly they got their game together to playable prototype. For whatever the unit costs are for 19, or 120 machines, I cringe to look at the massive waste of time and capital trying to shave some dollars there.

Quoted from sd_tom:

File that under penny wise / pound foolish.

Classic example.

#4746 4 years ago

For any creative project R&D takes a lot of time and can often show a large "waste" of time and money. However it is critical for these types of things. Remember, Stern has been working on (R&Ding) their new hardware for years before finally releasing it in Wrestlemania. Spending time and money for many months to years on design and testing must be done or a product will be a shadow of what it could be. I'm not defending all the tiny art tweaks or lack of flippable whitewood, but just saying proper R&D is rarely a waste in the long run.

Seeing as this is Zidware's first game, I'm not surprised at all to hear about multiple hardware trials or cabinet design (not artwork!) revisions. Get it right once and you're good for yeeeeeeeeeeears. Get it wrong and you're screwed.

#4747 4 years ago

Stern has a factory business, where r&d costs are recouped over manufacturing tens of thousands of machines over the lifespan of whatever technology they are working on.

We're talking here of making games in the 3 digits. Years of r&d, waste and false starts is a broken business model.

I'm crying over spilled milk here, but I'll still be critical of it.

#4748 4 years ago

Certainly an interesting development, and if I was a buyer, I would look at this as meaning at least another year. A few other thoughts . . .

As has been said, P-roc is a proven platform. Between BOP2.0, CCC, Predator, Matrix, Wooly, Buffy, Deadpin, the Kuglers, and plenty of others that have not been publicly available to play, it is clear that the P-roc works and is reliable. I will say that the driver boards have not been used as extensively at this point since games like CCC, BOP2.0 and Matrix were using the boards already existing in the game (Predator and TBL are both using the driver boards as well as most of the custom games (vs re-themes and extensions). Regardless those boards have seen plenty of action.

The FAST boards are new and have only seen action in a couple of games, and other then the EM conversion that was at expo, I don't think any other games have been playable at various pinball events, at least not that I have played (I think there is a portable machine that Aaron has shown with the boards). I am not saying the boards are not good or reliable, just not proven at this point. Their drivers boards have a little bit of a different 'philosophy' in combining drivers and switch detection into a single board, and only time will tell if that is a better, worse or equivalent as far as functionality and reliability (plus MPF will work with P-roc and associated driver boards as well)..

The pyprocgame framework is a proven commodity at this point, with all of the machines mentioned above using it. However, some of those machines are using extended versions of the framework that provide more support for color, larger displays and other features. CCC uses an extended version that Eric did to support color, DP has their version also to support color and their other enhancements, and Buffy and the Kuglers use what is called the HDVGA version of the framework, which is publicly available for others to use and has been shown to work with 32bit color running a 450x900 size display, that also has a new upgraded version on the horizon.

The MPF framework is full of potential and I think when it is finished (last I heard the v1 release was expected in about 5 months, but the alpha/beta is available now), should be an excellent platform and may turn out to be great for amateur programmers, since you should be able to get the basics functionality of a games mechanisms up and running with little to no actual programing. Of course the game won't have rules, sounds, graphics and all the rest, which will require programming, etc. In the case of helping JPOP, FAST and MPF certainly have guys with those skills. However, how much of the current code is usable with the new platform is unknown (at least to me), but given how MPF does things, there is certainly some refactoring needed.

I find it interesting that JPOP is now on his third (or more?) hardware platform. Based on Eric's comments it sounds like the game does currently run on the current hardware platform, and it is not clear why the change and hard to know if there is an issue with the platform, JPOP being JPOP, or if FAST/MPF made him an offer he couldn't refuse. BTW, multiple manufactures have looked at using P-roc and have chosen to go their own way, which I suspect is likely been under the belief they could find a cheaper solution as the P-roc with its computer requirement is not cheap, so maybe they did end up with a cheaper solution, but certainly seems they have had a lot of delays in the process.

Time will tell if this is this the next volume in the JPOP saga, or just another chapter. For those of us in the cheap seats, it continues to be an entertaining and enjoyable to watch. Hopefully at the end those who have bought will get their machines and laugh about the journey.

Did just hear about a study that found that the process and anticipation of buying something you desire, is actually more emotionally stimulating (typically positive) then when you actually get the item. So, for you buyers, this is all good

#4749 4 years ago

It seems simple enough to me: FAST is offering to step in and get shit done. That's conditional on using their hardware. That makes sense, because it's what they do, and obviously this is a business move. There's no charity here.

John can take it or leave it, owners can like it or not.

If FAST doesn't help out, and the existing hardware is used, then ask yourself: Who's doing anything with it?

It's all well and good to question the process used to make these pins, start a list, and make sure you have a lot of paper. IMHO everyone would be best served by not looking back and thinking about the future.

Fine, time was potentially wasted on a board design. It's not really all that relevant if there isn't a bunch of machines with hardware installed, and a bunch of code already running on them. You have neither at this point.

#4750 4 years ago

Ultimately, as before, John is going to do whatever John is going to do.

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