(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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13
#4601 4 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

OMG, i need the money for this fuckin' game.... ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!
Talk about John comin' thru in the end and all these douchebags talkin' mad shit over & over & over & over again. DOUBTFUL. That bastard is my boy. John is my boy. He's the one who really gets it...

There still isn't really any "coming through". There's no complete, running MG on the blog. Just art, like we've always heard. And weird history.

This is why he's continued to get away with not delivering for this long. People see the bits and pieces he's got so far and go all gaga for it.

#4602 4 years ago

I'll accept "coming through" when there is a game we can play.

It's what we've been hoping and waiting for with the much hyped "lebowski reveals".

And with the way pinball works.... likely no production games for 1 year+ when that playable game is shown.

Hell, I'm waiting for my Full Throttle, Andrew Heighway has been communicating with me, he's got like 20 employees and a factory, and still behind schedule getting games out. He was showing a playable prototype at Expo 2014 and announced there a nov/dec release date for the game. At this time I'm hoping to have it end of March. If he manages that, he'll have been better than most at getting a game from prototype to production (5 month delay from original release window).

So my prediction for MG is:

-Possibly it finally shows up Expo '15. Customers get theirs by end of '16.

I'm not even guessing where that puts RAZA.

#4603 4 years ago

The 'BLOG' looks the same as it always did, I'm not seeing anything new that I wasn't seeing yesterday, what changed? Just that it's open to public viewing?

#4604 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

The 'BLOG' looks the same as it always did, I'm not seeing anything new that I wasn't seeing yesterday, what changed? Just that it's open to public viewing?

Exactly the problem, there's nothing new to report except him opening it up. I guess that's progress of some sort, but it's not helping us get our games.

#4605 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I didn't mean to start a fight with Kim (and we've squashed any bad vibes already) but this is what I meant about the Facebook group. I think it's great if you want to have it, but the whole aura of secrecy just fosters bad feelings.

The private owners group will remain. It has become a collective force for a lot of angry and worried people. Shit is happening right now at amazing speed. We have key players now that didn't know of one another and they met there. They each have individual influence with Popadiuk and are having a phone conference this weekend.

I have a torn rotator cuff from patting myself on the back for an idea I wasn't even sure would fly.

Quoted from Aurich:

let the public places be a place where positive energy can hopefully accumulate.

You must be talking about Bizarro World Pinside.

-Thanks for accepting my peace offering, Aurich.

#4606 4 years ago

Magic girl seems incredible. Owning one would be a true honor.

#4607 4 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

The private owners group will remain. It has become a collective force for a lot of angry and worried people.

Almost like a creditors committee, except an attorney of the debtor is on the committee.

Seriously, though, I truly hope this effort produces real results and you all get your games. I'd love to see a happy ending here for all of the long-suffering supporters.

Rock on, everyone!

#4608 4 years ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

I'd love to see a happy ending here for all of the long-suffering supporters.

#4609 4 years ago

Kind of interesting. Not much for the lens-flarey animation on some of those samples, but the underlying art is good. Cabinet art looks amazing, and so does all the other art. Kind of like how we have seen with RAZA, Magic Girl has seemed to be a wierd amalgamation of "not-magic, but science and technology fooling people" themes. Looks interesting for sure. The "Sir Issac Newton Ball" made me literally LOL, and does he seriously have "Theatre of Magic Post" in text by the between flipper pop up post.. no way that makes it into production art.

If MG makes it into production, I would be interested in AIW, but only then.

11
#4610 4 years ago

The reason people go all "ga ga" for it after seeing this stuff is because it kicks ass and, well, people want it.

I believe John is open and willing to accept help and advice. He asked me if i wanted to provide any input on the design/layout aspects, I laughed, he's the genius there, I said i can help on the business side, which he admits is lacking and somewhat "moronic" because he simply can't do it all.

So we have gone from isolationist to hopefully more of an open forum and all hands on deck to help create a stable foundation business wise going forward so great games can go on for years!

#4611 4 years ago

Thanks for everything you have done (and not done!!) iceman44. From the outside looking in it appears the ducks are starting to find their places.

Quoted from iceman44:The reason people go all "ga ga" for it after seeing this stuff is because it kicks ass and, well, people want it.
I believe John is open and willing to accept help and advice. He asked me if i wanted to provide any input on the design/layout aspects, I laughed, he's the genius there, I said i can help on the business side, which he admits is lacking and somewhat "moronic" because he simply can't do it all.
So we have gone from isolationist to hopefully more of an open forum and all hands on deck to help create a stable foundation business wise going forward so great games can go on for years!

Also thanks to Mr68. And I think I get you posting style...

Quoted from Mr68:This image got 1 "unsafe" tag and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hide$$$feel-still-4.jpg (Click image to enlarge) 1

Though who is Ben Hidden, and what is his contribution in all this?

#4612 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The reason people go all "ga ga" for it after seeing this stuff is because it kicks ass and, well, people want it.
I believe John is open and willing to accept help and advice. He asked me if i wanted to provide any input on the design/layout aspects, I laughed, he's the genius there, I said i can help on the business side, which he admits is lacking and somewhat "moronic" because he simply can't do it all.
So we have gone from isolationist to hopefully more of an open forum and all hands on deck to help create a stable foundation business wise going forward so great games can go on for years!

Thats so badass. Customers and designer team up to make the baddest pinball machines of all time.

#4613 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The reason people go all "ga ga" for it after seeing this stuff is because it kicks ass and, well, people want it.
I believe John is open and willing to accept help and advice. He asked me if i wanted to provide any input on the design/layout aspects, I laughed, he's the genius there, I said i can help on the business side, which he admits is lacking and somewhat "moronic" because he simply can't do it all.
So we have gone from isolationist to hopefully more of an open forum and all hands on deck to help create a stable foundation business wise going forward so great games can go on for years!

The reason I'm hopeful is that the more John is willing to let people help, and just focus on what he's good at, the better things will go. We have a great community, full of smart people with lots of skills. Just gotta form up like Voltron!

#4614 4 years ago

Good job Ice.

My concern (not personal concern, but general overall concern) is that John may not have known how long it would take (obviously) and probably has no idea of the cost to make. As people have said it costs the same to design a game for a run 15 as for 1500 run.

There is a saying in the pharmaceutical industry, (I'm paraphrasing) if a pill costs 8 cents to make why do they charge $8/pill? The answer is that the 'first pill' cost $800,000,000 to make.

#4615 4 years ago

Not to mention the Pharmaceutical companies make an absurd amount of profits!

#4616 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Not to mention the Pharmaceutical companies make an absurd amount of profits!

As does Coca-Cola, Apple, Google etc.. what's your point?

Would you rather have no new drugs being developed?

You think they should work non-profit?

#4617 4 years ago

hahahah touchy, must be in the business rai don't worry I love anything blue and would pay double!!!

#4618 4 years ago
Quoted from rai:

As does Coca-Cola, Apple, Google etc.. what's your point?
Would you rather have no new drugs being developed?
You think they should work non-profit?

I was going to write something similar...I hope they make assloads of profit. $ drives innovation and more research. It has to be worth it to them to keep innovating and finding cures for stuff. It's not all for the good of mankind.

#4619 4 years ago

Yes I too agree..... but god forbid any pinball manufacturer makes a shite ton of money!

#4620 4 years ago

PS forgot early Saturday morning = sense of humor washed away from night before

#4621 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Yes I too agree..... but god forbid any pinball manufacturer makes a shite ton of money!

I wish the pinball companies did make a lot of profits, but it's not a huge business like the NFL who brings in 114 million viewers for one game. Where the gate just ticket sales of the super bowl is probably $100M

Instead an industry selling what? 10,000 new pins a year at a price of $6k/each maybe $60M all told with distributers and shipping all taking a piece.

Pinball is just not big business like Cigarettes where the combined 'profits' are $35 Billion a year.

My point about John, perhaps he figured he'd charge $18K per game for MG without knowing is actual overhead and time and BOM. He may not be able to make it on $400K ($18K x 23 pins). Hopefully this will be examined to see if it works out.

EDIT: I was just looking at more recent numbers, the US cigarette market was something like $66B last year with half that as profit. Lets say the US (new) pinball market is $66 million (probably less than that). That's 1000x smaller than the cigarette market.

#4622 4 years ago

He's already admitted that Rai. That's why he's doing 50 MGs. Just the reality of the situation.

As for pills, let's go Gilead! GILD

#4623 4 years ago

damn i was hoping you were in the business, took my hint, and my little blue pills were in the mail

#4624 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

He's already admitted that Rai. That's why he's doing 50 MGs. Just the reality of the situation.

OK, sorry I was not sure, I'd heard some people say that, but I had not heard it officially announced.

10
#4625 4 years ago

I couldn't sleep and my doctor told me to take Viagra and hot chocolate at bed time. The hot chocolate is sedative and the Viagra prevents me from falling out of bed.

#4626 4 years ago

Kids, don't smoke, play pinball!

#4627 4 years ago

They discovered a Viagra for women? It's called cash.

#4628 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

This is messed up. He needs to review his entire business model. Alice is another limited run game, so he's going to spend a decade of his life at his shop, giving up all that goes with that, and not even make any money?
I don't even see how he CAN make any money with this model. I didn't see how investors can see a return, so what is in it for him? It made more sense when he was pulling a salary but if that isn't even part of the equation.... dunno what to say about that.

I disagree. While there was never much of a possibility for him to make a profit by designing and manufacturing games with total runs under 100, if John's wife can pay his bills this whole situation starts to make sense. It is John's hobby and passion, and rather than designing a game for himself he is doing this for others without profit in mind. I'll commend him for his contributions to the hobby as they are over and above what most people would do.

However I think most of us can agree, it's also a real shame that all the of those beautiful MGs will wind up hidden in a just a handful of basements around the world, with no possibility to reap the cost benefits of manufacturing at scale or meeting demand if the game turns out to be as good as its potential. It's a lot like Tesla motors making 50 full sized luxury electric supercars that can go 500+ miles on a charge for $250k each and calling it a day. It is a far greater benefit to the world to make millions of these cars for @$30k, so that everyone can experience true innovation and art which would help expand the hobby. Tesla had the that scaling plan from the outset, but John leans toward perpetual exclusivity.

#4629 4 years ago

Just an FYI, the NFL is a non-profit organization..... somehow.

#4630 4 years ago
Quoted from oopsallberrys:

Just an FYI, the NFL is a non-profit organization..... somehow.

just the league office. The owners are for-profit. FWIW

To be clear: The entire NFL is not a nonprofit. Like many modern corporations, what we think of as “The NFL” is an entity composed of various subsidies, including the for-profit NFL Network (the cable and satellite network owned by the league), as well as 32 separate teams. In 2012, “The NFL” netted $9.5 billion in revenue through TV licensing, ticket sales and merchandise; the vast majority of that money is funneled through the league’s teams. The teams are subsequently responsible for paying “dues” to the league’s office, which manages rules, oversees referees and conducts “player safety research.” The league office received $326 million in dues in 2012, the most recent year for which such data is available. Only the league office, run by Goodell, is considered a nonprofit.

Rodger Goodell's salary last year was almost an much as the entire domestic market for new pinball sales.

#4631 4 years ago

What IF there were "pro" versions of MG and RAZA somewhere way down the line?

I think he should def consider that with AIW.

Not sure us LE guys can have it both ways, pins packed full of great shit and a truly limited run of 50 or 125. For future pins anyhow, who knows.

Can you imagine new interchangeable mechs and stuff with a fully integrated hardware and software system like FAST and Aaron?

Gotta see what the numbers look like for a long term sustainable business model

#4632 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

What IF there were "pro" versions of MG and RAZA somewhere way down the line?

IMO, that completely defeats the purpose of these limited run "boutique" pins.

Plus a "pro" run implies that these things can be run on an assembly line and cranked out like crazy. Negative.

#4633 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

IMO, that completely defeats the purpose of these limited run "boutique" pins.
Plus a "pro" run implies that these things can be run on an assembly line and cranked out like crazy. Negative.

I agree its a negative for a least the first two, can't please everybody, but I wasn't thinking about Stern pro numbers on a huge assembly line.

200? 300 extra? I don't know. Just a thought.

At the end of the day, the numbers have to work out to survive.

Isn't Andrew doing 500 Alien LE's? I should know, I'm in on that one too.

#4634 4 years ago

I have to say, even *I'm* optimistic hearing that he's willing to let other people help with he "boring" parts and have him concentrate on the design side.

But, can he stop himself from changing things, or working on some toy, instead of working on getting the game *done*? Is he willing to have someone else manage the project timeline?

Reading the now-open blog, he apparently had the playfield done in 2012! 3 years ago! Phew.

#4635 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

The reason I'm hopeful is that the more John is willing to let people help, and just focus on what he's good at, the better things will go. We have a great community, full of smart people with lots of skills. Just gotta form up like Voltron!

Great post!! +1,000,000

18
#4636 4 years ago

At a certain point you just have to say "Screw it, good enough!" and release something.

The trap people fall into is "It's taken this long, so it has to be even better!" and the tweaking cycle continues. Like a snake eating its own tail.

Finish something and save your improvements / what you've learned for thr next project.

#4637 4 years ago

Actually the best route may be to keep these two games limited as promised. Deliver and amaze and then open up Alice as the big run.

#4638 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I agree its a negative for a least the first two, can't please everybody, but I wasn't thinking about Stern pro numbers on a huge assembly line.
200? 300 extra? I don't know. Just a thought.
At the end of the day, the numbers have to work out to survive.
Isn't Andrew doing 500 Alien LE's? I should know, I'm in on that one too.

Surely you aren't comparing what JPop is doing to Heighway?

#4639 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Actually the best route may be to keep these two games limited as promised. Deliver and amaze and then open up Alice as the big run.

I agree Dave.

At the same time, we are really getting ahead of ourselves!

#4640 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Actually the best route may be to keep these two games limited as promised. Deliver and amaze and then open up Alice as the big run.

Sounds good to me. Hurry the fuck up.

#4641 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Surely you aren't comparing what JPop is doing to Heighway?

Of course not. Numbers wise.

Remains to be seen whether "boutique runs" can work at any price. I'm a big believer though in developing a hardware/software system like FAST that moves pinball forward. Not back to what is comfortable and old, even though tried and true. About to find out.

Although, I guess Charlie and Ben would certainly say boutique can be a success

Like Ben said, perfection is the enemy of really great and can destroy margins, sorry the business guy speaking here

#4642 4 years ago

Most people won't work for free forever no matter how much they love pinball

I agree with Dave/Big Papi and Rob. Amaze with the first two then start the printing presses and ring the register

#4643 4 years ago

To paraphrase Jersey Jack:

John should make Magic Girl his "worst" game (from the new company).

Draw a line in the sand and get it out, and the next games can be better and better.

#4645 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

To paraphrase Jersey Jack:
John should make Magic Girl his "worst" game (from the new company).
Draw a line in the sand and get it out, and the next games can be better and better.

He's coming along with that mentality

#4646 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Actually the best route may be to keep these two games limited as promised. Deliver and amaze and then open up Alice as the big run.

Ok, then what about the AIW folks who already put money down on an idea of a limited run? If you're going to keep you're word, keep it. If you're not, don't. Either he keeps his word on production numbers for each of his first three titles or blows them all up. Buyers of MG can't act like they are somehow more entitled than the RAZA buyers or that somehow they should be given deference when others should not.

#4647 4 years ago

"Printing presses" doesn't sound very boutique to me. Sounds like a shift away from John's vision.

If it's going to be about sound business practice and ROI then the MG and RAZA folks need to come to terms with opening up those runs.

-5
#4648 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

To paraphrase Jersey Jack:
John should make Magic Girl his "worst" game (from the new company).
Draw a line in the sand and get it out, and the next games can be better and better.

If Jersey Jack knew what he was doing he would have hired JPop when he was available but that probably wouldn't have worked out because Jack is willing to release unfinished product and John is not.

10
#4649 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinballmike217:

If Jersey Jack knew what he was doing he would have hired JPop when he was available but that probably wouldn't have worked out because Jack is willing to release unfinished product and John is not.

This statement is rediculous. Let's take a company that is manufacturing and selling pinball machines and bash them but praise the guy that can't get one game made. Makes perfect sense

#4650 4 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

This statement is rediculous. Let's take a company that is manufacturing and selling pinball machines and bash them but praise the guy that can't get one game made. Makes perfect sense

Can you imagine what WOZ would have looked like if JPop had designed it?

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