Party on iceman. You are cleared hot. Target jpop

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Not gonna argue with this and let it speak for itself. Fact: I have been a practicing lawyer for a long time now, admitted to 2 state bars, 2 federal courts, and an admin body. Curious to hear what YOUR legal credentials are--or are you just another "forum legal expert"? [For the sake of argument, we'll stipulate that Canadian law counts here as well.]

And FWIW, I do agree that transparency is important, and would only help things because there are 2 games close to being finished that look incredible, and go beyond any pin made to date. Can't even think of a title that would be similar. It's not vaporware and there is no cash crunch--far from it. John is frugal to a fault. No idle full-time employees, and he does seem to be calling in favors to get the best talent with the least expenditure, so that more can go into the games themselves.

Gonna continue working on getting him to divulge more. Honestly, I would recommend that current owners not cancel--yes, there's a wait list for both games so it won't materially affect John's situation, but I honestly think you'd be kicking yourself for a long, long time if you did cancel.

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Lawyers get a bad wrap sometimes. I rely on several lawyers heavily in my personal and professional life and find their knowledge invaluable to me. Perhaps a portion of that ill will stems from some lawyers using their intimate knowledge of the law to bully and scare people. At any rate, food for thought. Carry on counselor.

I posted this in December. Figured I'd revisit it. I'm not sure if anything has changed at all, but the questions on this list need to be addressed immediately as we still have NO CLUE when we might actually get our games.

Considering the MG reveal was December, and RAZA reveal in February, and we still seem to be a ways away from playable prototypes.... What is left to do, how long will that take, once the prototypes are "complete" what is the process after that, what happens next, and how long will they take to produce for us?

Those questions need to be addressed. John promised an updated schedule back in October, he said he was working on it that day and would post it shortly. We were distracted by the promise of a "reveal" and allowed that to placate us.

I think we need to go back to demanding a new timeline.

Good job Ice

Best of luck for this project and hope it moves along you'll see some rad pins soon.

If this is true why can't people get refunds?

We'll

Well, that's interesting to hear. JPOP's attorney is communicating directly with the customers... Good luck not being named as a witness in the event of a lawsuit and being conflicted out.

Also, I've put money down on AIW but have never been given access to any private blog or Facebook page. How do I go about getting such info?

Conflicted out of what? You can talk to someone's lawyer without losing the right to sue them later if you want to.

Since he does mostly IP work and not litigation, I don't think he is worried about being conflicted out of future litigation.

At the risk of pissing some people off, I will call bullshit on that one.

People have asked for refunds without success. If there was a wait list for both games, refunds shouldn't be an issue. Also, there was a thread where one of the owners was trying to sell his spot at a decent discount....nothing but crickets. If there was a wait list, why wouldn't someone on that list buy that spot at a discount?

I think if you just ask John for access he will send it to you its in a wordpress group thing..... but then I read somewhere on here he said he is going to open up all the groups

Wait list? That's hilarious. The wait list is a moot point. Who in their right mind would put any money down on a yet to be delivered manufactured game at this point.

This was posted 2 days ago.

To me it is shameful that there are people defending John's practices when there are obviously many people owed money in this thread (both vendors and customers), many unhappy buyers, and the word "lawsuit" keeps being thrown around. This is so far beyond "keeping the faith" and "you'll kick yourself if you get out".

It doesn't matter how crazy good the lights are in his shop, this has been a terrible experience for a lot of people, and still continues to be because it isn't like there are 100 machines sitting in a warehouse waiting to ship out. We have no idea when anything will change.

Was the prepayment/purchase non-refundable?

That's a good point, Rob. I think he may be referring to the wait list of people to buy the extra games Jpop is building. And trust me, its a bone of contention for the original 19 MG owners.

Yeah, I don't blame you guys at all. My "no stakes" view is hey, the more games the better! But that's a raw deal for people who paid frankly a shit ton of money for something that was promised to be super exclusive.

I can't believe I'm even saying this, but maybe with all the art he's done the original 19 should get like a special version of the cabinet, and the other orders don't get that art?

"Opinion not fact"
Folks may be confusing a disorganized artist in need of business management with not being able to issue refunds.

sure Aurich lets get him right back doing a whole new design for cabinet art! These are going to be exclusive no matter what he adds. He could do a little plaque like TBL.....no wait there's 3 months right there!

I just enjoy bitching... he can make as many as he likes, I just want the game. Achiever Award's are for dudes and rug pissers.

Even Tucker managed to make 50 cars.

"Hold that tiger!!!"

Tucker also built a car company from the ground up in 5 years, and funded it by selling stocks instead of taking pre-orders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucker_48

Maybe elitist 4 years ago lol. I just feel sorry for them and hope they get the game. Keeping the comms in the dark is just a bad idea, especially if he needs more buyer's to get this done.

Typical lawyer talk is all. While it's true there is a wait list, he failed to say it was a wait list, a refund wait list.

Well...just for clarification....I'm a lawyer too.

I knew there was a reason I didn't trust you.

God save us all from this plague of lawyers!

rd.

I think there are more lawyers on Pinside than any other forum on the internet .

Especially if you count the ones who talk like they are.

Um, yeah. I know. What I was stating was if his lawyer makes himself a witness by inserting himself in discussions that may be material in some future suit, he (the lawyer, that is) may be conflicted out of representing JPOP. His lawyer may be skirting the line between representation and acting instead as some agent of JPOP's corp. One cannot be a witness and the attorney in the same case.

He's Jpop's IP attorney only.

Is it StevenP?

Got it, that makes sense then. He wouldn't be representing JPOP or the corp anyway in the event of such.

You all should burn his phone down or actually go there and demand a refund. If Jpoop cant even answer a phone, give proof of a game or even progress toward a game in the near future I would want my money back asap. This to me sounds like a classic Wayno scam. But I don't have a horse in this race so ill shut up now. Carry on.

Let Doug and Aaron try and work things out before you go burning any phones.

Do you know the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?

One is a bottom dwelling scum sucker..

...the other is a fish!

From Facebook "The Magic is now free"

https://magicgirldev.wordpress.com/

Here it is.

Nice work John, now keep listening to your buyers, they're gonna help you get back on track!

Wow, this thread is sad. its amazing that when these games were announced, the accolades and joyful comments were all over. Now, it's frustration, and angry pitchfork time. Boy, there was a lot of good intentions for a lot of these boutique makers that really turned south. (No offense for those boys south of the mason-Dixon line).
Definitely not making this thread, (and a few others) a hippie love fest. I feel like I'm watching a Saturday afternoon cowboy movie, and the boys are headed to the jail to "take care" of the cattle rustler. Trouble is, there doesn't seem to be any Sherrif to single handedly calm the troops down.
I hope Jpop can talk a good talk.( if he shows up to talk)

I'm very optimistic about MG and RAZA

http://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/61/fiasco

And before you so cleverly down vote the word fiasco, listen to this. Within the first three minutes the point of the story is clear.

Great post...a link to unrelated events

"This is a story about a fiasco and about what makes a fiasco. And one ingredient of many fiascos is that great, massive, heart-wrenching chaos and failure are more likely to occur when great ambition has come into play, when plans are big, expectations great, hopes at their highest."

Not unrelated at all. Don't be an idiot.

We know. You always have been. You even vowed to "drain" this thread when you felt there was too much negativity regarding the project. You've never waivered.

Can you link it please?