(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#3751 4 years ago

In other words, John's paranoia with Ben was well placed, and it's all his fault for joining the enemy, and he is responsible for our RAZA's being delayed 3 years .

#3752 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

I will probably help Chuck with rules, write some of the script, mentor a new programmer and do dots.

While I appreciate everything you do and have done, I mostly admire your generosity.

#3753 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Original concept was myself as "evil mastermind" creating zombies in abandoned amusement park. Player was "the guy" trying to get back "his girl" that I kidnapped to turn into a zombie queen. Very straightforward "hero, villain, goal"
I liked the idea of an old, decrepit amusement park. The environment decayed, like the zombies. There was going to be an underground lab / lower PF thing. The porthole on the side shows the glowing reactor that powers the park (that's still in the game I see)
It seems John has not only diverged wildly from original theme but what zombie fans want in general. They want gore, violence and a sense of feeling important in a post apocalyptic world. Not clowns, alien women and ray guns.

What happened?

One positive I can say about John and these pins is that he is young enough and he, I think, will go to his grave building these pins, whether it be 3 yrs, 5 yrs or 10 yrs from now.

I'm thinking a 3 yr projection on getting the artwork finally finished?

#3754 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

What happened?
One positive I can say about John and these pins is that he is young enough...

He may be but I'm sure as hell not! I don't want to finally get my machine only to share with my other geriatric pin heads at the Haven of Rest.

#3755 4 years ago

For some reason I decided to dig into the archives of pinball news. Here's audio of JPOP from 2011 Pinball Expo talking about getting back into pinball design and the 40 potential magic girls he intended to sell:
http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2011/johnpopadiuk.mp3

#3756 4 years ago

I wonder if Spooky game one customers get priority on game two? Ben??

#3757 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

What happened?
I'm thinking a 3 yr projection on getting the artwork finally finished?

So your estimating 3 more years + 4 years to date = 7 years to get the art work done? The Sistine Chapel took 4 years to paint and it's considered "a cornerstone work of High Renaissance art".

Maybe if John were to finish this game in the next 12 months he might be able to consider himself apart of the gang. You know Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Raphael, JPop.....

Everyone agrees the artwork looks great so for the love of the almighty god enough already, it's time to get into the 21st century and "Git R Done".
Git-R-Done.jpg

This seems reasonable doesn't it?

QSS

#3758 4 years ago
Quoted from RustyLizard:

I wonder if Spooky game one customers get priority on game two? Ben??

Not sure if Chuck is doing that. When it's announced, a reasonable fee holds your place in line until your game is ready to ship.

#3759 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Magic Girl will actually be for play at Expo 2015

Won't that void the warranty?

Sorry....

#3760 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

It's likely we'll be wondering whether Magic Girl will actually be for play at Expo 2015, let alone raza.

Nice try but Zidware games are forbidden to be played at public pinball events.
Voids the warranty and all.

#3761 4 years ago

Ben, i wonder. You said you think amh does not sell like hot pancakes because the lack of a license.

But if you really think that, why dont you try a licensed pin? Your platform is miles better then all others.

#3762 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

But if you really think that, why dont you try a licensed pin?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Chuck's 2nd game is going to be his pinball zombie girls he worked on. Only way I can see easily tying the work already done into a license is doing "lolipop chainsaw"

Keep in mind, once you decide to do licensed, then that means you have to hire an artist so they can render the art accurately. More importantly, you can spend a month doing all the artwork (playfield, plastics, backglass, cabinet) only to have the licensee tell you they don't like any of it and you have to start over.

#3763 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I don't really care for the way they chose to portray Alice, she's a rather unappealing central figure, but maybe the vision for the game has her being a total bitch instead of sympathetic, I dunno.

Nailed it.

Ugh.... /facepalm. I had high hopes for the art on this if it ever came to fuition, but those hopes just got smashed bigtime. That is one ugly Alice.

#3764 4 years ago

Oh it's an irrefutable fact that non-licensed games don't sell as well. It's probably part of the reason Williams declined in the 90's (most of their stuff was original after 94)

Chuck's game is still zombie-related but not "zombie babes" anymore.

#3765 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

It's likely we'll be wondering whether Magic Girl will actually be for play at Expo 2015, let alone raza.

There will be no MG to play at Expo 2015, at best there could be one to look at, but I have doubts about that based on his track record. It is an extremely limited run not even designed for location play, the run is sold out, and thus no incentive to allow anyone to play it, or RAZA for the same reason. If he actually wanted to sell hundreds more of each game, that would change everything.

#3766 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

There will be no MG to play at Expo 2015 .[edit]. It is an extremely limited run not even designed for location play, the run is sold out, and thus no incentive to allow anyone to play it, or RAZA for the same reason.

I disagree. At this point, my gut feeling is that if he doesn't show a playing version soon, his house of cards will crumble.

#3767 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Oh it's an irrefutable fact that non-licensed games don't sell as well. It's probably part of the reason Williams declined in the 90's (most of their stuff was original after 94)

Agree 100%. There is a vocal minority that insists on unlicensed, but I keep citing instances where people don't flock to the games once they come out.

Quoted from benheck:

Chuck's game is still zombie-related but not "zombie babes" anymore.

Will it be the same playfield layout or are you guys changing that somewhat too? I never played Chuck's game so I don't have an opinion, just curious if you are changing more than just the theme.

#3768 4 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Will it be the same playfield layout or are you guys changing that somewhat too? I never played Chuck's game so I don't have an opinion, just curious if you are changing more than just the theme.

It'd be nice if the design was iterated on a bit more for sure. It was a pretty sparse layout when he showed it at MGC last year. Had some cool bits to it, but there just wasn't much in total.

#3769 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Nailed it.
Ugh.... /facepalm. I had high hopes for the art on this if it ever came to fuition, but those hopes just got smashed bigtime. That is one ugly Alice.

*shrug* I like that Alice. This isn't a Disney representation. She has attitude and isn't some trembling whiny little girl. Plus, she's hot...hot women in pinball = win.

#3770 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Keep in mind, once you decide to do licensed, then that means you have to hire an artist so they can render the art accurately. More importantly, you can spend a month doing all the artwork (playfield, plastics, backglass, cabinet) only to have the licensee tell you they don't like any of it and you have to start over.

Depending on the license, you may just be handed a folder of clip art that's all you're allowed to use from the licensed IP. Of course you'll still want an artist to arrange it nicely, but in a way going licensed may decrease your overall art costs since you're not hiring someone to do the whole thing from scratch (since you're not allowed to under the license). Of course you will have some added time/money costs of getting approvals and redoing work if not approved. But overall I would think that going non-licensed is more about design freedom than about saving money on licensing-related costs.

#3771 4 years ago

I really liked the initial Alice package we received in the mail, enough that I've regretted not going in on it since.

Seeing that picture... ugh. I'm not so regretful now, especially combined with the multiple projects without any production issues. She looks like an ugly cross between Medusa and Elvira.

15
#3772 4 years ago

If you're an industry vet you can get away with unlicensed (Jpop, Pat Lawlor) or if you're unproven with a license you'll also do OK (Skit-B, Dutch)

It's kind of like dating. If you're tall and rich, you're golden. If you're one or the other you'll do OK. If you're neither... good luck!

-1
#3773 4 years ago
Quoted from SunKing:

I disagree. At this point, my gut feeling is that if he doesn't show a playing version soon, his house of cards will crumble.

I disagree with your disagree Even with all the issues, his runs are still sold out.

#3774 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

*shrug* I like that Alice. This isn't a Disney representation. She has attitude and isn't some trembling whiny little girl. Plus, she's hot...hot women in pinball = win.

Good for you. I'll thumbs down you too, now we both disagree with each other, yay!

Seriously, there's been "alternative" representations of Alice (American McGee) that I liked, but it's not the direction I would've wanted to have seen. It's not about hot or not, it's about the tone and mannerism of the character. Dig the Cheshire Cat, all the rest.... BLUEARGH. No. Certainly colors will help out this art, but if you don't like the lines, the rest don't really matter. I have no doubt that the art package overall is going to exceed most pinball production in terms of detail, but it ain't my thing, and I really REALLY wanted to be in on this after seeing the initial art.

#3775 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

I disagree with your disagree Even with all the issues, his runs are still sold out.

Easy to be "Sold out" when you refuse to issue refunds, eh?

#3776 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Easy to be "Sold out" when you refuse to issue refunds, eh?

This "no refunds after a certain date" thing makes no sense. That date should have slid out with the production schedule. "No refunds after games enter production" or "No refunds two weeks after the first working prototype is shown". I guess hind sight is 20/20, I know.

#3777 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

This "no refunds after a certain date" thing makes no sense. That date should have slid out with the production schedule. "No refunds after games enter production" or "No refunds two weeks after the first working prototype is shown".

image-80.jpg

#3778 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

If you're an industry vet you can get away with unlicensed (Jpop, Pat Lawlor) or if you're unproven with a license you'll also do OK (Skit-B, Dutch)
It's kind of like dating. If you're tall and rich, you're golden. If you're one or the other you'll do OK. If you're neither... good luck!

I think unproven & unlicensed can work if all these elements come together:

1- Excellent art package (comparable to the favorite B/W games)
2- Excellent audio package (catchy music & experienced voice-over actors)
3- A really cool toy or feature that's compelling, unique, and looks fun to interact with
4- "Reasonable" price

IMO, AMH is missing 1 & 2, and WOOLY is missing 2,3 & 4. If a boutique can nail 1-4, I think they could have excellent sales of an original title.

#3779 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I think unproven & unlicensed can work if all these elements come together:
1- Excellent art package (comparable to the favorite B/W games)
2- Excellent audio package (catchy music & experienced voice-over actors)
3- A really cool toy or feature that's compelling, unique, and looks fun to interact with
4- "Reasonable" price
IMO, AMH is missing 1 & 2, and WOOLY is missing 2,3 & 4. If a boutique can nail 1-4, I think they could have excellent sales of an original title.

AMH has really nice dots from what I have seen while playing and watching other play.

#3780 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

AMH has really nice dots from what I have seen while playing and watching other play.

Dots are nice - I'm talking about playfield/cab/backglass. Amh is just OK in the art department. I believe it would have sold better if the art was better than OK.

#3781 4 years ago

I'm not sure if AMH qualifies any longer as not a good seller. It is a "sleeper", with 5 month backlog and if the goal was 150 machines, it seems likely they'll get there before they are done.

#3782 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I think unproven & unlicensed can work if all these elements come together:
1- Excellent art package (comparable to the favorite B/W games)
2- Excellent audio package (catchy music & experienced voice-over actors)
3- A really cool toy or feature that's compelling, unique, and looks fun to interact with
4- "Reasonable" price
IMO, AMH is missing 1 & 2, and WOOLY is missing 2,3 & 4. If a boutique can nail 1-4, I think they could have excellent sales of an original title.

*5) reasonable timeframe.

I suppose if you have most of the other criteria may be ok, but having money tied up *while* waiting is asking for failure.

#3783 4 years ago

To reframe it.... Ben, if you sell 150 machines, you outsold jpop's entire run of MG and RAZA.

#3784 4 years ago

Honestly at this point I think John should be able to take as much time as he needs. If you don't like it and are in already he should make it easy enough to get rid of your pre-order.

There are other options out there for fast turnaround pinball production and Zidware ain't one of them...

#3785 4 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

To reframe it.... Ben, if you sell 150 machines, you outsold jpop's entire run of MG and RAZA.

Yeah, but I'd expect that if John's games ever actually got done and weren't limited quantities, he'd sell a lot more than AMH did/does.

#3786 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I think unproven & unlicensed can work if all these elements come together:
1- Excellent art package (comparable to the favorite B/W games)
2- Excellent audio package (catchy music & experienced voice-over actors)
3- A really cool toy or feature that's compelling, unique, and looks fun to interact with
4- "Reasonable" price
IMO, AMH is missing 1 & 2, and WOOLY is missing 2,3 & 4. If a boutique can nail 1-4, I think they could have excellent sales of an original title.

I agree, but it's a little hard to say that it can work when there isn't really an example of it working yet.

I completely agree on AMH. I would buy one if the art was there, but it's not and is a huge turn off.

#3787 4 years ago

Ben, why don't you get zombie yeti to do the art on the new zombie pin?

#3788 4 years ago
Quoted from Strange:

Honestly at this point I think John should be able to take as much time as he needs. If you don't like it and are in already he should make it easy enough to get rid of your pre-order.

"Refunds readily granted" is kind of a big qualifier though if John's going to have license to take as long as he wants -- based on what I've read here that's not at all how Zidware has run its business.

#3789 4 years ago

Well John is "starting production" on MG in March

And we find out the story on RAZA in Feb, that will determine a lot for me as far as direction goes

#3790 4 years ago

Oh dear Jesus.... the art was criticized on the RAZA blog.....

Taking bets on how many revisions of the 'ray gun girl' we are now going to see.....

#3791 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Well John is "starting production" on MG in March

Anybody laying odds on that?

#3792 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Dots are nice - I'm talking about playfield/cab/backglass. Amh is just OK in the art department. I believe it would have sold better if the art was better than OK.

Yeah I agreed with your post just wanted to give credit where due.

#3793 4 years ago
Quoted from PinPatch:

Ben, why don't you get zombie yeti to do the art on the new zombie pin?

With Ben wanting to wear fewer hats on his (potential) next pin, I bet that art is not something he does. The PF design is really good, the dots are great, and the programming is awesome. He has the framework for his system already written c/o AMH, so that's one less thing to have to do and test (fully at least).

I know Charlie has design ideas, but I sort of think it's better for Spooky to have Charlie run the show and have Ben be the ghost writer for games. That's not a dig at Charlie at all, but he wears a lot of hats right now. Maybe with KT coming on board a little more Charlie will be able to work on a design for himself.

Army of Darkness anyone? Ben has said in the past he likes the theme and is right up the Spooky alley.

#3794 4 years ago
Quoted from Fulltilt:

Oh dear Jesus.... the art was criticized on the RAZA blog.....
Taking bets on how many revisions of the 'ray gun girl' we are now going to see.....

What'd they say?

#3795 4 years ago

They said she looks like China the wrestler.

#3796 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Yeah I agreed with your post just wanted to give credit where due.

I'll give AMH tons of credit! It's a finished game made my a few dudes and it's shipping! It's fun to play, too! However for a customer to drop $6k+ on a game with a theme they have no nostalgia for, it's gotta be firing on another level that makes you go "WHOA!" All I'm saying is that I think original themes can sell well....they just have to have the "it" factor. JUST being original is not enough.

Quoted from frolic:

I'm not sure if AMH qualifies any longer as not a good seller. It is a "sleeper", with 5 month backlog and if the goal was 150 machines, it seems likely they'll get there before they are done.

If that's the goal, then it will be a success. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ben seems to be a bit bummed about the sales so far & thinks that being unlicensed was the main factor.

#3797 4 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

If that's the goal, then it will be a success. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ben seems to be a bit bummed about the sales so far & thinks that being unlicensed was the main factor.

I think Ben's feelings might be clouded because the game was a little slow out of the gate. But if you told him a year ago he'd sell 150 he probably would have been very happy. It is a "boutique" game after all. Correct me if I'm wrong, Ben.

#3798 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Well John is "starting production" on MG in March
And we find out the story on RAZA in Feb, that will determine a lot for me as far as direction goes

If production starts in one to two months then that means there should be fully playable MG prototypes right now. Has anyone played them? How does the game play?

#3799 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Easy to be "Sold out" when you refuse to issue refunds, eh?

True, true. However I can count the number of customers asking for refunds in this thread on my fingers. Considering the sum total of his 3 titles is still smaler than a single Stern LE run there's obviously enough people willing to risk a small fortune for a years-long wait.

The problem with giving refunds is that Jpop will wind up having to manage a revolving door of customers making deposits and then bailing after a 6-12 month wait because lets face it, RAZA and AIW look to be a long way off.

#3800 4 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

The problem with giving refunds is that Jpop will wind up having to manage a revolving door of customers making deposits and then bailing after a 6-12 month wait because lets face it, RAZA and AIW look to be a long way off.

If Zidware wishes to survive, JPOP will just have to learn how to handle the problem, IMHO.

If Zidware's games are that good, people will wait. But JPOP has to get Magic Girl to market in 2015 before he gets that benefit of a doubt.

My 0.02.

Marcus

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