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Quoted from toyotaboy:He had more than one, but he ignored them, so nothing got done. His biggest downfall is delegating what he was supposed to be known for (artist), and not delegating very well where he needed help (mechanical, electrical, programming).
Honestly, his biggest downfall was not paying you guys. Cheap bastard that wanted it all for himself.
Quoted from toyotaboy:I never wanted any money, I was totally fine with experience and helping with the project. I quit caring when he ignored me and coped an attitude.
Another dumb ass move, the people that wanted to help him like you, myself, Aaron and many others he just dumped on.
I think he's going to show up at Expo, with or without something in tow.
In his delusional world he still thinks he is great and people will forgive him because after all, "all he was trying to do was to make great pinball"
Quoted from toyotaboy:all makes sense now. Scott Golberg was the public relations and promo manager at zizzle! It's come full circle
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/22/AR2006112200991_pf.html
And Steve Marsh filed the patent for American Pinball, same IP lawyer for John.
John, f ing scam artist
Quoted from flynnibus:Maybe a new legal entity...nut still playing with assets and individuals tied up in the old entities. Remember bill claimed he had the rights to MG.... And what did we just get? A claim of this new company to build those games.
This isn't just jpop as an individual anymore...
Bill doesn't have shit and he'd have to spend good money after bad to enforce what? Not gonna happen.
Jturd and his lawyers know this.
It's the court of public opinion that is going to sink that ship. Any litigation is a joke and peanuts.
The new LLC is an easy sham, like homebuilders that execute a ponzi scheme, the prior folks are F ed.
Now that is a conclusion i reached a LONG time ago. Because I know better.
When he shows up with this new BS, well that's a different story.
Jturd never said he was sorry, nor ever explained anything and this is just another bunch of horseshit!
Nothing will ever get done.
This whole thing is a joke.
Look at the office that Duvali Komani is operating out of? Seriously?
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:I agree, but lets say he sends out 2 dozen games.
Wouldnt the lawsuits go away?
Then he runs out of money again?
It's not even about the lawsuits Art, MG is just the tip of the iceberg and he/they can't deliver beyond empty cabinets.
Many more RAZA and AIW people that had to bend over.
John thinks he can F the rest of people under the guise of a new LLC entity. It's total BS.
How does the possibility of a pinball machine get done, Houdini or otherwise, with "American Pinball"?
Even with John, look at the jockey?
"Pinball is hard"
Look how long its taken Heighway and Dutch to get things rolling. And they aren't "rolling".
People bitch about "code" and production issues at Stern with their team and facility.
A row of empty cabs and "MG is going to be delivered by the end of 2016" 
The times I talked to John during the fiasco he was definitely naive and ignorant in general but he knew with full clarity what he was doing when it came to continuing the Ponzi scheme and that he was in trouble
He basically had no detailed accounting in place. He couldn't give me or anybody else an invoice on what they owed for each pin. I had quit sending $$ in long before that expo. I had $3k in MG and another $1500 in AIW because I stupidly did that just to support him at the time.
He just kept asking for money on AIW while the ship was sinking all the while knowing he was in big trouble and was just trying to delay the inevitable with OUR money!!
The other thing he did all day, every day, was LIE to all of us.
He got mad and blamed Pinside for troubles when it started to fall apart, despite the lies, distortions and misrepresentations. The jig was us and he couldn't steal any more $$$ out of AIW owners
John took $$ and just viewed it as his little "Kickstarter" project. If it made it, great, if not, then businesses fail all the time. After all, "he was just trying to make great pinball for the community"
The reason this feels like another scam is because it is! Jpop has said NOTHING since being shut down. No explanations, no apologies, no shame, no remorse, no NOTHING!
Same MO that had us distracted for years, show some empty cabs to give people hope and raise $$$ at the same time to make a Houdini pin!!!
Seriously, Wtf? It will be fun watching this one play out
Ok, instead of "ponzi scheme" I'll call it a "conzi scheme"
If you "pull a bunch of crap out of the game" just to get it playable kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it? People didn't pay $17k for stripped down crap, although anything would be better than nothing
Who is going to "code" any of these pins with the LCD in the back of the cab for starters? It appears "code" is a challenge for people that know what they are doing, much less some nobody start up.
The current MG cab isn't designed for that display.
Whoever is doing this is out of their minds and coming at the absolute WORST possible time.
WAY too much competition from really good viable companies. A few of those won't make it
Recession is coming next year
Quoted from frolic:In the end, RAZA and AIW money paid for development of MG. They are all the same thing.
Seems like whoever concocted this scheme didn't think it out too well did they Frolic.
Either way, as far as I'm concerned American Pinball doesn't exist and never will. DOA.
I recall having a conversation with John about MG and the # had gone from 17 to 25 MG's paid or in some form of partially/fully paid.
Pre Expo he was talking about going to 50 MG's because "there was no way it was feasible to do such a small limited run of pinball machines".
I wonder if that thought crossed his mind as he was collecting $$$ for MG to "kickstart" his company?
He was getting ready to take $$, around expo time, for the additional 25 MG's. For the people on the list, like Bill and I, he said "to be ready to go with funds".
Expo time came, TBL blew people away, John had his empty cab and then vowed to have his own "rug reveal" on December 17th that year.
He lied and deceived for years.
Had he been closer than he actually was he would have taken those MG $$$ then, the reason he kept taking AIW $$$ and consistently asking for it, was because nobody expected a pin anytime in the near future at that point.
I believe what they are thinking is IF they can produce a MG, in whatever state it's in, and give the original owners a pinball machine then that is the first step to "making it right"
Then I think they will try and mass market MG and sell as many of them as they possibly can, SLE and premium style.
Not how it was promised originally but that was going to change anyhow. At least 50
IF they are successful they will try and do the same thing with RAZA and AIW.
IF they are funded properly and are willing to play the long game maybe a Hail Mary would have a chance.
I'm just trying to wrap my legal and accounting brain around this and figure out what the angle is
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:except they don't own the rights to MG, Bill Brandes does.
Maybe they have a deal worked out with Bill to pay him back as well?
Maybe they came up with a work around?
Zidware owns the assets and just licensed the rights to produce MG to Bill. And I don't know what that contract says but obviously this new group thinks they can produce some version of MG
Once again, you'd have to suspend all common sense to believe that American Pinball came out of nowhere and decided to start a pinball machine company first and then thought about hmmmmmm.....who can we get to design our games for us.
John started this whole venture and brought the Zizzle guy in that he worked with before. He just can't show up as an owner yet because of his legal issues.
The ONLY thing that matters here is prior folks getting made whole and they actually start shipping functional pinball machines.
Until that happens, this is nothing.
Seeing how Spooky can actually put together pins in a newly constructed barn, I'm sure it can happen here too.
But you can't forget all of the lies and misrepresentations made by John for years.
Can he redeem himself? Let's see.
Quoted from MinusWorlds:HE WASNT ALLOWED TO TAKE DETAILED PICS. THIS WAS ALL THEY WOULD ALLOW
I wonder why they would make a big deal about announcing the Houdini pinball machine, set it up in an empty hotel room in Las Vegas, and then not let anyone see it?
Strange indeed, not Corn's fault.
Quoted from pinballrockstar:Jpop was a whitewood designer,so i presume the thing shoots real good.
They have to polish,code and tweak this protomachine a bit,big deal..
I hope AP will get stuff done and send me a houdini for my aiw money.
I hope you get your AIW too, but can't assume anything and "polish and tweak" is a big deal.
At least there is a chance now that someone is going to rescue this whole fiasco. 
Quoted from Fulltilt:My sad prediction is that AP will try to bring out Houdini for sale and just let the Zidware fiasco continue to flood here on Pinside with hope that it eventually fades away.
Could very well be the case. We will see.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:True.
But what happens if they ask you guys for more money? That was the plan on the previous failed bailout, remember?
That ain't happenin!
Like Pinlink said, that would be insane!
I'm in pullback mode anyhow.
Man i really want everybody to get what they want out of this deal.
The litigation track against Jpop is a total loser. But I get why people want to get a pound of flesh out of his ass.
I'm trying hard to really care after all the BS.
Truth is, I hope they, AP and Jpop, get redemption, make it right and satisfy everybody concerned. Forgiveness and happiness at the end of the day is always best, life is too short.
But I haven't seen anything yet that warrants forgiveness. Say something you spineless F.
Excellent interviews High Protein, i listened to the Jpop one back then. Now its more amazing.
"Noodling". I can't even believe this BS coming out of his mouth.
I can't imagine a bigger dope.
Yeti helped perpetuate this scam due to the artwork wow factor. Everything else BLOWS. Not Yeti's fault.
"Mind energy". Have to get motivated every day. He's already making excuses for his failures.
The LIES are just without remorse.
The biggest phony in the history of "making pinball".
He's a combination of "Python, Lawlor and Ritchie", says him!
He designs games for "everybody around the world"
You can't believe what's coming out of this guys mouth!!!!!!!!
Jpop and Gomez are the "Kingpins and custodians of pinball"! per him
He has a "responsibility to keep it going".
"Pinball school" is about him sharing his wonderful knowledge. Professor John.
You guys have to listen to this BS.
"I don't know how to do anything else" he says. "Very hard to explain"
He doesn't want to run "large runs of games"
Sadly, we bought into the mad scientist Jpop. Turns out he's a pathetic dope.
"Not like a quick cash grab and let's soak everybody"
"Making what people want"
"Very kind of squeaky and mushy".
"A lot of people i met will buy games and leave them in the box"
"Friends are buying and just want to be in the crowd, support the business because you want to support pinball"
Again, great and timely interview pre Expo.
What a Dick he is!!!!!!
Quoted from rotordave:That'll explain the 100 posts in a row and the serious bout of JPOP remorse
rd
If this thread gets to 20k posts I'm quitting pinball R diddy.
Listen to part two and tell me what you think. I have no remorse, just in total amazement.
I'm thinking we are both dumber than a bag of hammers.
Quoted from pinballrockstar:Sure crazy indeed.
But i think jpop's bank account wasn't empty,he just saw he was unable to produce all the machines for what was left in the bank.
So he had to lose his overhead and rethink things and eventually made a deal with AP.
No idiot would drain the entire account and have 8 cabinets to show for.
Yep, I think Jpop had to open his own wallet and actually has skin in this game.
He thinks he's great so this is a way to potentially put $$ to work, get himself out of his legal troubles, salvage his reputation to some extent and possibly make $$ down the road.
My "posting under the influence" has really been much more gentler and well thought out 
Quoted from flynnibus:business license != legal corporate entity . Completely different areas here... and most notably when it comes to the topic of liabilities and avenues to persue.
Am I the only one who remembers when iceman used to run around telling everyone he was a lawyer??
Excuse me. Zidware inc is gone and no longer able to do business in the State of Illinois.
The corporate entity gives them a license to do business in that state. Get it?
As for AP, the fact they did an S Corp instead of an LLC tells me they don't understand the differences in choice of entity
You want to start arguing with me now on legal issues flynnibus?
I know you love it and I'd be happy to make you look foolish even though you think you know everything
Dummy 101
Corporate entity provides asset protection and LLC is the best choice in most states
You can elect to be taxed for federal tax purposes any way you want
A city, state or county license may be required to conduct a particular type of business
For example, as a CPA and attorney I'm required to maintain both licenses at the state level
My LLC is the legal entity I operate from
Not that tough to follow is it?
Quoted from flynnibus:No, it doesn't. The legal corporate entity, its definition, and it's operating status means very different things (and much more far reaching) than simply being able to operate as a business in the state of illinois.
The fact they are dissolved means far more than 'operate as a business'... as someone who claims to be a lawyer and cpa... I would think this would be childs play to you.
It is child's play. That's why I'm not gonna argue with you and your lack of knowledge in this area.
You are full of babble nonsense.
Dissolution means NOTHING more than Zidware Inc. is done in the state of Illinois
Now I realize you slept at a Holiday Inn last night but it doesn't make you a lawyer too 
Quoted from flynnibus:Lets go back to what you originally said...
One - 'licensed to conduct business' - a statement that is completely off-center of the far more significant topic of the corporation being a legal entity that holds liabilities and assets.
Two - claims the result is a revokation of a license to operate - which is not a requirement to have a corporation... nor is a corporation a requirement to be licensed. In other words... completely irrelevant to the actual topic of the corporation's status (which is what changed here..). The corporation does not need a business license to operate.. it can be dormant.
Now you tweak it to sayActually it does... significantly. The dissolution means the very **existence** of the legal entity, not just their operating status, has changed (impacting the ongoing legal case). It means the company would have been expected to settle all outstanding obligations before winding up.. that unpaid vendors, etc would have been expected to be notified of this change.. that basically the entire company was expected to settle up in order to wind up its financials. But the entity is named in ongoing litigation as well.
What is not clear is if Illinois requires that before considering a corp fully dissolved. It doesn't appear so. But since you are a cpa and a lawyer, why not stick your minons on that to understand what the business incorporation laws are in Illinois to know what the notification requirements are, and requirements about liabilities before wrapping up the legal entity?
The point about the corporation has little to do with 'conducting business' and everything about the very ENTITY people have their liability with disappearing. By default, JPOP != zidware. So if zidware goes to zero.. and disappears off the books as a legal entity... there is nothing there with all the buyers have an obligation from. **POOF** Now everyone needs to work backwards to chase a legal entity that could be non-existent... and do things like pursue angles like JPOP piercing the corporate veil so he becomes the legal entity of pursuit.
When the very person that owes you money ceases to even EXIST... yes, that is far different from 'being licensed to conduct business'
There is no way possible I'm having to have this discussion with someone who is a cpa.
If you are gonna argue with me you have to be a lot faster than that. It shouldn't take you that long to conjure up your babble nonsense.
Quoted from flynnibus:Actually it does... significantly. The dissolution means the very **existence** of the legal entity, not just their operating status, has changed (impacting the ongoing legal case). It means the company would have been expected to settle all outstanding obligations before winding up.. that unpaid vendors, etc would have been expected to be notified of this change.. that basically the entire company was expected to settle up in order to wind up its financials. But the entity is named in ongoing litigation as well.
Wrong
Quoted from flynnibus:The point about the corporation has little to do with 'conducting business' and everything about the very ENTITY people have their liability with disappearing. By default, JPOP != zidware. So if zidware goes to zero.. and disappears off the books as a legal entity... there is nothing there with all the buyers have an obligation from. **POOF** Now everyone needs to work backwards to chase a legal entity that could be non-existent... and do things like pursue angles like JPOP piercing the corporate veil so he becomes the legal entity of pursuit.
No shit sherlock.
Quoted from flynnibus:Two - claims the result is a revokation of a license to operate - which is not a requirement to have a corporation... nor is a corporation a requirement to be licensed. In other words... completely irrelevant to the actual topic of the corporation's status (which is what changed here..). The corporation does not need a business license to operate.. it can be dormant.
Wrong
You fill Pinside with diarrhea of the mouth and in this case you have ZERO clue what you are talking about.
Now, if you are going to blabber on, then let's do it in a timely manner, point by point. You don't need to google research everything, its way too confusing to you.
But we do get to 20k posts faster
Come on let's go Flynn!
Post #19968
I'm quite certain it won't be difficult to "pierce the corporate veil" in Zidware's case. I'm sure the corporate records are non existent and the corporate formalities were not followed properly.
May not matter anyhow if John is judgment proof, in other words no assets to attach or wages to garnish.
Zidware Inc. is no longer allowed to conduct business in Illinois and it just doesn't matter, they could probably cure the defect and reinstate if they had that intention. It's over and of ZERO consequence to anybody!
Quoted from flynnibus:I should have realized I should have just used this level of language with you all along.. as it seems to be your level of understanding and articulation. Duly noted for the next time.
I'm correct, you're wrong. Deal with it.
There.. much faster for you!
You have constipation of the brain, deal with that!
You don't even have a clue as to what you said or what it means, its ridiculous.
WRONG
AP made the mistake of filing for a Subchapter S status versus LLC.
The beauty of the LLC, in addition to being a better asset protection entity, is you get to share profits and losses disproportionately.
What does that mean Flynn?
I wonder if through the lawsuit against John, has anybody figured out when he has any "inherited IRA's" which are not a protected asset any longer per the Clark supreme court case ruling last year.
Spousal IRA's are still protected. That is why these guys must consider a trust to protect future generations and have the ability to disclaim an IRA into it if necessary.
Quoted from TigerLaw:If JPop is at the expo no one will care about the 20k post, they will care about the 25k post.
Ah yes, the silver anniversary, I'm sure this drama is FAR from over.
These great expo's come at the worst time for me. Tax deadline on 17th this year. 
This one will be epic
Have we entered the F ing Twilight Zone? Because I don't know what to make of this alternate universe
A continuation of one of the strangest stories ever, not just pinball but it would be hard to even make this shit up. So it must be true right? 
Quoted from dmbjunky:I tried to tell this story to my Dad who isn't into pinball. I felt crazy trying to explain it.
Yep, nobody in their right mind would believe this shit.
I don't explain shit to anybody for fear of confirming how stupid i am to others.
Quoted from DCFAN:Start with a K? There are two K's that seem to bash Heighway.
They are libelous brothers joined at the hip now.
One is just an unabashed profit flipper crybaby with one pin, and makes no bones about it, and stresses about having 2 Batman LE deposits on file. With zero room to add another pin. Total phony, see what attacking me gets you
The other is doing a pump and dump with AP pinball while trying to destroy another company that he has ZERO business with.
And you thought Jpop was bad?
Here we are over 20k posts later and the story has only gotten worse today
It's one thing to slander another company and get ejected from that thread, but its another to execute a pump and dump SHILL designed to screw another pinsider or 3rd party out of his hard earned $$$ on via the AP con.
Horrendous
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Did he sell his position? You couldn't make most of this Expo stuff up!!
Well, the explanation is coming along with a whole lot of other mic dropping shit
Stay tuned
As in tune in to the Charles Manson podcast of Pinside. You might be surprised
Quoted from brucipher:But if you don't jump on it early, how else are you going to get one so you can flip it immediately for lots of money?
I don't see what is sarcastic about that.
It's the absolute truth and that part of the consumer world is driving prices.
The chickens are about to come home to roost.
Quoted from benheck:As a cog in a wheel, that could work. But as a one-man-show it was a disaster.
Yep, thanks for the reminder. It was so clear and right there in front of our faces.
10% Inspiration and that ended almost as soon as it began, 80% deception, BS and "I'm an entitled pinball elitist so give me your $$$ because I'm trying to make great pinball".
The remaining 10%? Pure garbage, like everything else.
Quoted from Cornelius:Please, Iceman.. you wouldn't know an analogy if it was at the bottom of whatever you're drinking. Thanks for he neg!
I guess you are right, those "analogies" are tough ones to figure out. You are welcome, you deserve it.
Quoted from Cornelius:Analogy is not decent. It even borders on misogynistic
Your stupid SJW comment? Gimme a break, nobody needs to be drinking to see how dumb that is. But then again its just Cornelius being Cornelius. 
Quoted from benheck:The time line in this project now exceeds America's involvement in WW2.
Next milestone: longer than the moon mission?
Might be a fun challenge for me, see how many pins I can build before John "the master" finishes one.
Ben you need to help the poor guy out and do a pin with him. Could be fun times!
Quoted from Taxman:I think Ben has made his comments quite clear in the past. Right now he's probably searching for a mint to get the taste of bile out of his throat.
He needs a whole barrel of mints. But then he's flushed that turd down the toilet long ago.
I thought there were a lot of people here that are in on the lawsuit?
If so, please share the answer.
Not that it will reveal anything like the other lawyers state, a general denial says nothing and a specific denial with an affirmative defense won't tell much more.
I would pay $$$ to be able to depose him though. 
Quoted from c508:They have almost certainly been advised not to comment on ongoing litigation.
And their attorney certainly isn't going to provide any of the documents to someone other than his clients, the court, and JPOP's attorney.
Note that all the stuff WOLFMARSH and I have posted re: Kulek is coming direct from PACER and not KeithInMi (who is behaving professionally and responsibly by not supplying docs to Pinside).
I'm just talking about public record filings. I'm pretty sure i know where this whole thing is going to end up.
Nvm, just saw it above. Good job!
Quoted from Fulltilt:Seems like just yesterday writing those checks and feeling good about a Zombie pin.....
In retrospect it was totally my fault for giving him money past the "design" phase.
I feel like the dumbest Mfer ever now.
There were flashing danger signs everywhere!
Early and often too. That's ok, won't be the last time I do something stupid in my life!
That DB had everybody giving him the kid glove treatment
Quoted from vdojaq:Your are going to start chaos with everyone who is owed but been on the other end of silence from the JPop camp. Not cool to dangle this carrot and offer no substance.
I'm saying Jpop himself has been a busy little beaver
So am I saying "there's still a chance"? For MG guys, yep. Like I said, stay tuned
Quoted from frolic:Doug, I can't believe after all this you're going to think there's a chance jpop delivers anything despite what he says or how he spends his days. The same guy that had AP shitcan all his work and start over on Houdini.
I'm saying I'm HIGHLY skeptical of course as to whether the box that goes out will be worth a shit or with any semblance of playable code whatsoever but, yes, the boxes with lights might actually go out
They are being built, at least the daily attempt is there
Quoted from Pinballs:If the legal case continues then presumably these assets might eventually be e.g. rolled into an asset auction later (thus, even if you receive a machine you might have to return it later).
There is a legal process to be followed, and it looks like Mr Popadiuk isn't doing so. Instead we are getting inadequate scant information.
This is going to be very interesting on how it plays out in court.
Are these preferential payments with Zidware assets to a certain group of creditors? AP made it clear that this was ALL 100% Jpop and Zidware.
Send out a few MG's and all is forgiven? I think not.
There are too many great pins coming down the road with what Stern, JJP, Spooky, Heighway etc. are putting out that I'd have absolutely ZERO desire to own MG as a "collectible".
It's guaranteed to have all kinds of issues, but I'm sure there will be a market for it amongst collectors.
I'm happy for some of the MG guys that are getting what they paid for despite a whole slew of others getting F ed by John, including many who put work into the game.
Quoted from desertT1:I'm remembering a Cointaker Edition RAZA, but can't remember the quantity.
99 regular
26 cointaker
Another screwed over vendor in six figure range
It will be interesting to see how these preferential payments to MG buyers play out with Raza and Aiw buyers when they realize they get nothing.
Involuntary bankruptcy filing? Kulek was voluntary. You can see how that is playing out
Quoted from RobT:Yeah, it takes a real genius to know that he reads these threads...since he talks about them on his podcast.
How many people thought he was an incredible idiot when he bought someone's spot for MG? I certainly did! He doesn't look quite as dumb for that move now though, does he? Especially if he got it for a discount, which I would assume he did.
He paid $20k for it. Not sure if I believe $$ actually changed hands at the time because it was unbelievably stupid then, but he claims he actually did it
Maybe he can flip that box of lights for whatever? Guarantee you he's already trying to find a sucker to take it off his hands.
Quoted from RobT:I'm having a hard time deciding which drama thread deserves most of my attention these days....this one, the SkitB/Kulek one, or now the Dutch Pinball one.
At least the Dutch Pinball crew has been finally outed for the shit show that they are and have been for a LONG time.
Same song second verse, like Jpop, nobody wanted to believe anything was wrong and just made excuses for the lack of communication and lies.
The Alien drama is pretty intriguing too btw.
Quoted from RobT:Maybe it's a matter of semantics, but I would not say that "Alien is shipping." One pin going out to an Arcade, and another being close to going out, isn't saying too much.
When they start shipping in bulk containers, that's when I'd say "Alien is shipping." And it does look like that day is getting closer.
+ 1000
As we all should know by now, until your pin has landed on your doorstep it still feels like fantasyland. Very happy for Andrew though and he communicates to all of us. Looking forward to my LE this year sometime.
A pack of liars to varying degrees is rampant with Pinball "manufacturers"
Absolute worst part about this hobby.
Harder to do it the right way? Always is. In long run, people like Spooky will thrive and grow because of it
Quoted from PismoArcade:Yep...I really wish DP success and hope they they don't end up in the Kulek/JPop/Vonnie D world.
The Phil drama (and price tag) scared me off long ago.
I had $$ paid, like an idiot as usual, and thankfully Phil pushed the refund button!
Ok, Kaneda, you are cracking me up. The whole "be smart guys" concept is great and i agree BUT, WTF do you think you are getting with Magic Girl?
What makes you think your decision to buy one from Kim is a winner? Based on what? Have you F ing played it?
Just because you get a box with legs doesn't mean you have shit! You have a $20k box of what? (Yes you paid that) Yet you hammer on Alien non stop?
Ever heard the saying "play before you pay". The guys that are getting MG paid a long time ago and had nothing to begin with. You paid Kim $$$ with no discount, really stupid at the time and maybe now as well, time will tell and you have zero clue as to WTF you have, because you have a Jpop boner and "stars in your eyes"!
It might be a total POS to play and a piece of garbage from a QC standpoint. Making pinball is hard? Clear coat blows? Typical Jpop ghosting?
Collecting what is "rare" is what got people in trouble in the first place with Jpop. Great art though.
Well it will be nice to look at Billy! So is the best looking pin ever with GBLE. But that one also plays awesome.
I hope you are able to recoup all the $$ you blew on Jpop that dick with a MG sale!
At least you own a piece of history for what its worth and you were right there in the middle of it.
Quoted from RobT:Sorry, but my opinion is that anyone who doesn't believe that MG will be highly collectible is wrong.
Time has a way of fixing stupidity and fading memories.
All of this BS is built on a house of cards. See BBB $20k collection special of the day.
Quoted from cooked71:LOL. Us B66 owners have suffered too long in the B66 thread. Time to equal things up a bit - when are you hitting the TBL thread iceman44 ?
I think i've hit that one hard already but there is so much SHIT to go around its hard to keep up.
Quoted from wcbrandes:love it. Have to agree you B66 owners have had enough bashing...get it out here your only gonna hurt about 22 peoples feelings
You deserve whatever you got coming Billy for having to grab your ankles on this deal.
And like i said before, you deserve a F ing medal of honor for trying to help everybody out.
That pathetic look on the face of that POS is hysterical and I can't wait to see how this shit show plays out.
Does the pin ship with actual pinballs?
Quoted from frolic:Those videos, or lack of, is exactly how John always obfuscated things in the past. There is
No way this thing plays half way decent.
RAZA is a F ing joke. So is AIW.
Have you guys seriously forgotten the last several years?
I don't want a box of shit with RAZA and AIW, you can keep my money! Chump change
I love pinball and playing it. IF that F er actually sends out a pin in MG that doesn't fall to pieces when you get it then I'll be shocked.
Don't turn it on, it might blow up?
Somehow John has all of a sudden created pinball Magic while Stern is having a difficult time, with all of that infrastructure, pumping out quality pins? Have people lost their minds?
Sorry everybody, glad you are getting what you paid for I think, but in NO WAY would i send my BM66LE or any other pin i have for that MG. Not even WPT or NBAFB
Let's see what happens when these amazing F ing machines get plugged in.
Quoted from laprocket:Sending out a pile of crap that falls apart won't help Houdini sales. For AP sake it should at least be built well. My guess is this pin will be the equivalent of having a hot girlfriend with a horrible personality
ZERO chance any AP pinball games make it.
Who will buy a Houdini pinball machine given all the BS that goes into making a pin good?
Still MUCH better than anything Jpop can do handmade.
Ok, I'm one guy
Who wants to join me to make 3?
The fact that the vendors and everybody that put so much effort into this garbage for nothing is what really pisses me the F off
The only reason Jpop is doing this is to try and save his own ass. Total disregard for everybody else.
Maybe he can reimburse gas money or buy lunch to satisfy his debts
Are you getting a pin Pinballs?
Last thing I'd want to do is hurt anybody that is actually getting something out of this shit show
Just a F Ed up deal all the way around
It all comes back around in the long run. Life is too short to worry about this
Btw, will somebody please tell Jpop to NOT tuck his t shirt in. That look is horrible. And cut your F ing hair
Quoted from Pinballs:19 games are allegedly ready to ship. Before this tiny glimmer of hope glimmers you want to stamp on it. Jpop claims he will work on RAZA next. Isn't it worth a try? Small chance I know, but I previously thought $15,995.00 was lost, plus my RAZA pre-order monies. Maybe it isn't lost yet?
How much would you get in a lawsuit? The one I'm in now was 25% winnings to the attorney, after years, and probably little winnings, and $500 up-front fee. Not so glorious vs getting a machine.
This is the first step towards something positive happening in this 6 year nightmare... do you really want to snuff it out? Just sayin'...
Only 25% to lawyer? Wtf
I'm ok with you guys getting your MG partially with my money on Raza and Aiw
But let's drop the Jpop is working on Raza next bit. Not happening in my lifetime and I don't want it anyhow
Anybody that paid for MG deserves to get it.
We all do.
Yes we could F the whole thing up and get back pennies on the $$ but it ain't worth it
Across the pond? No worries.
All the down voting dopes that chime in with no skin in the game can go F .........
Quoted from Tilt:you have had years to do this, and now that there is a chance that some will get something, you want to start this all of a sudden. Great timing.
To those that say that this will not go up in value, you really dont have a clue then. I already have a buyer wanting me to find him one in the 20k+ range, and my three friends that are supposed to get one have no desire to sell yet. So the price will go up on these whether you like it or not. Just not to you. But there are several high end collectors that do just that, collect, and they want it for the simple facts of very limited, and the story that goes with it
Stfu. I don't care. Your attitude sucks. Read my posts
You act like this is trading some stock
Some of you dopes don't quite understand the DISRESPECT involved to the vendors that made it happen and didn't get paid, to the Raza and AIW $$ that went to feed Jpop so you could get your MG and then act like this is somehow gonna be a F ing $40k "collectible" that is gonna trade like hot potato in high demand.
F that.
Quoted from Tilt:HOnestly, the people that "bought" one do not owe ZY or AJ anything, So saying that they are disrespecting them or other vendors is just stupid.
ANd if you dont like my attitude about telling facts, well, i really dont care
It's people like you that make me want to force his ass into bankruptcy so you don't get shit.
How about that life lesson?
I'm thinking about hiring Zombie Yeti to do my own ONE OFF pin art for $20k and stick it on any pinball machine i own and then sell it for $100k?
What do you think?
Whitewater re skin? WPT?
Or Alice in Wonderland? The artwork he's already done?
Hell yeah I'm on to something.
I doubt we'll see much video of gameplay. Has anybody even made a ramp shot? Maybe playing with the glass off will be the way to play this pin. This isn't even about that i don't think.
Has Jpop met the minimum requirements to stay out of jail? Deliver some games. And then say, "I'm on to Raza next".
The buyers of this pin and Raza and AIW did so expecting we would have a great new Jpop original from a guy that just wanted "to make great pinball" and "innovate in ways never seen before". And a pin that would be an awesome playing experience.
What's left is really none of that. Just the stay out jail effort.
But then people don't really buy BBB because its a great pinball machine. They mostly buy it as a "collector". People are afraid to play because they might put a dimple on it. How many BBB's do you always see for sale, "low plays", "less than 200", etc.?
MG will trade hands between "collectors" for whatever they think its worth. Playing the pin will have little to zero impact on it. Because nobody actually will.
Cointaker is smart to take advantage of selling MG as soon as the box hit their warehouse. The hype will never be greater than it is today.
Once Jpop finally fails with Raza and Aiw and Zidware fades into bankruptcy, time will erode the appeal of the moment. Although it will never be forgotten and certainly some people will just want to own a piece of pinball history.
Quoted from Taxman:Actually, there has been a BBB setup to play at Pintastic. Sorry I forgot who brings it, but it gets set to $2/play with money going to charity. I have a Pinball Magic so I know the build quality on Capcom pins is pretty darn good.
I'm def not comparing the build quality, I'm sure a real company like Capcom could put together a pinball machine better than a guy by himself in the back of a warehouse And BBB actually plays and some people like it as a flipping pinball machine.
Remains to be seen how poor or good the Jpop build ended up being.
Quoted from TigerLaw:BBB is a really solid pinball machine. Capcon was moving in the right direction and by my assessment it was their best game. The scarcity, artwork and cool adult theme go a long way, but BBB is a good playing machine.
Never had a chance to play one. Maybe one day. I guess i could buy the BBB collection for $20k? 
The way John was going with RAZA as it evolved post Ben Heck, was disappointing in some respects. The artwork was just ok and the theme was incoherent, much like Jpop himself.
AIW would have ended up being the best pin of all 3 imo. Theme and artwork alone, however, "best pin" is certainly a relative term.
There were 9 pins each of King Kong and Kingpin made?
It's a shame Capcom didn't make it to carry on with BBB and Kingpin. Data East? I'm not sure people are shedding too many tears over their demise although they have some decent pins.
Quoted from TigerLaw:That collection sold for full asking price two days ago so that one is off the table. Was such a cool collection.
That collection was truly one of a kind for the right buyer. Had very few plays from what i recall too. It would be hard to buy a pin like that and not play it!
Quoted from TigerLaw:Funny enough though, that company is still here today. They renamed it Stern.
Check out Stern's 30 year releases report. The DE and Sega games they made are listed as theirs.
Some would say based on today's output Stern should rename themselves Data East. Not me of course.
Quoted from hank527:Read this thread. Cointaker has 3 MGs and why in the world would they keep all three. Cointaker is still owed quite a bit from my understanding. If I were them, I'd sell off at least two games to try and recoup some of my losses.
I'd think they would stage out selling all 3? Why retain a reminder of a terrible loss for them? But who knows.
I don't think it makes them smart knowingly F ing another pinsider. They made it right afterwards apparently.
Cointaker has gotten royally F Ed by Jpop and wasted a bunch of time on TBL so I'd give them a pass on that one
This quick MG auction? It's buyer beware
At least K is being honest about it and not trying to hide it and informing people
I feel bad for anybody that gets F Ed and the hits keep on coming with Jpop
Kind of begs the question doesn't it. Wtf was Jpop really doing for all these years?
Yeti did the art. I would have expected more out of the self proclaimed "hardest working man in pinball"
That farce is at the top of his greatest hits of lies
I'm only wondering here, aside from the fact that Cointaker lost a big amount of $$$, why did they get 3 MG pins? Did they purchase them up front? I think I recall Chris saying they did buy 1?
What about Yeti, Applejuice and others?
I know John and Cointaker have been long time friends. How was that process handled?
Doesn't it seem a bit dumb not to give the programmer a pin? A guy that certainly would have incentive to finish it up?
But then it does have to actually flip to matter
Quoted from vdojaq:There is one glaring omission here, JPop is not in bankruptcy. Zidware/JPop just produced 19 machines. No judge is going to force bankruptcy at this point.
That may change if 19 unplayable boxes of lights are delivered. We just don't know yet.
I don't agree with this at all. Zidware is bankrupt now.
They would have to prove they have the capability of producing Raza and Aiw if the other creditors forced him into Involuntary bankruptcy.
Then the question of preferential payments arise within the 90 day window of filing
Quoted from vdojaq:Look, not starting a fight, but you just contradicted yourself. "Zidware is bankrupt now." Then "if the other creditors forced him into Involuntary bankruptcy".
So, there has been no bankruptcy filing by JPop, or a forced bankruptcy by creditors, right?
That's right. Just a civil action so far
John hasn't filed himself because he's is supposedly trying to fulfill his obligations.
He can't do it past MG with what we know now
John could be on the hook for the MG deliveries within 90 days if it's deemed they were preferential payments to the exclusion of the other creditors
Have to file for Involuntary bankruptcy to get there
Quoted from vdojaq:In other words, all speculation on your part and you know jack shit of the internal situation. I have no knowledge of the inner doings either, but I do know that the fact is there is NO BANKRUPTCY at this point.
Armchair lawyers at their best.
We all share the same personal opinion, JPop needs to be held accountable. However, our emotions do not trump any laws, nor are they fact of the situation.
No shit. There is no BK at this point.
There could be tomorrow. And that is some jack shit.
Of course it's speculation. Wtf.
Yes good lord. Insolvent and unable to pay its debts. In lay terms F ing bankrupt
Quoted from TigerLaw:Did they remit 100% of the money they took in on the special edition RAZAs to JPop? I can no longer recall the particulars.
I don't recall the exact details either at this point. It's somewhere in this massive thread. I think Cointaker fronted John a bunch of $$$ for the Cointaker version and not just customer funds?
Six figures is what i remember about the conversation.
I was one getting on Kim for supposedly taking advantage of somebody in selling that MG via the private owners group
A big and regrettable overreaction on my part
Time to move on and at least some MGs are being opened and played now
Quoted from Cornelius:Sober up, cowboy. I know how tough my skin is. You're not on my ignore list, are you?
That's funny.
I'd hate to hurt your feelings and get all butthurt like you do in following me around and stalking me with downvotes
K can def take it as good as he gives it.
Despite what anybody thinks about Jpop, its always a great experience for somebody to open a NIB pin. In this case, its the end of the longest shit show in pinball history so certainly people are going to be interested in it.
You guys that got it, congrats and have fun with it and the drinks are on you guys at TPF for us Raza and AIW losers!
Quoted from spfxted:Trying for a Podcast…..
I'll sum it up for you Ted.
"I'm just trying to make great pinball for the community". "I'm the hardest working man in pinball". "How much time do I have on this interview, the lightning bolt hinges were a thing of beauty and far superior to my competition". "Can you believe the poor venting system on those Stern cabinets".
"I am preparing my own rug reveal for RAZA now".
Done, drop the mic, Jpop
Ok, so the bloom is about to die very quickly off of this rose.
It will fade into nobody really cares oblivion over time.
Applejuice and Yeti deserve games and won't get them sadly.
Raza and Aiw projects are all over but the crying.
So what? Onward and upward. Time to bury the dead, all they do is stink up the joint. Coghlan's law.
Nice video K.
It really is a shame John was such a dope. Had he simply paid people, accepted help from others that knew what they were doing, he might still be blowing and going.
The massive ego, cheapness and greed factor did him in. He was content just paying himself until the jig was finally up and people had finally had enough of him.
It's a gorgeous pin. I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of John.
He shouldn't be given any more chances but this is fickle pinball
He will try something. His massive ego won't allow him to quit.
There are people out there that will buy anything and he's learned how to slap some parts and a box together and sell it as art
Quoted from toyotaboy:don't forget the promo video:
Which was one of the dumbest ideas ever thought of. No offense to Ben but come on.
What sense did that ever make? None. I guess it was John's way of trying to get Ben to work for free?
There are so many great artistic pins over the years.
From what i own, GB is gorgeous and my favorite art wise, of course Yeti did it. BM66 is phenomenal too.
My restored WH20 is absolutely beautiful.
So many Bally pins with great artwork.
And now Stern has made a huge commitment to great artwork. Dirty Donnie with Aerosmith on the heals of GB and Bm66. Can't wait to see what's in store for 2017
Quoted from pezpunk:yeah they won a piece of shit that barely plays.
And a lottery built on other people's money
I'll never understand the "investment" mode of a pinball machine
I'd rather win the Apple stock lottery like I have and use proceeds to buy pins I like to play
I'm thinking a nice restored CCC sounds pretty good right now
Quoted from Mr68:It doesn't matter that I sold MG, I am full steam ahead with my lawsuit to recover RAZA money. And I say money because its my firm belief RAZA and AIW will never be made. Never.
Which suits me just fine after this nightmare, as I don't want any of these machines in my home especially when they're missing parts, not functioning and likely to never work.
I will be contacting Zane myself now and considering all other options on the table as well. Whether or not separate and/or additional actions need to be taken.
It's reached the point now where I'm not a fan of how this is all playing out, especially with the last straw being dealt for Raza and AIW buyers. Unfortunately, just another stain on pinball and we are left to the courts for me now as a last resort.
And it's not about the money.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:Because no one had a clue these 19 would be worth the kind of money they seem to be going for. More power to the owners for getting what they can get.
No clue? Really? Make another 30 now then.
People were flipping these for MUCH more months before they were delivered.
If he built them on his own he could build another 30. That will be an option for the bankruptcy judge to consider
It was part of the original plan to build 50 anyhow. Bill, myself and others were "on the list"
His comment to me was, "how could anybody think I reasonably only build 13, 17, or 19, I really screwed that up"
Before expo, "Hey John are you ready for the MG deposit? No, but be ready, I'll be calling you guys soon"
Expo blew up with TBL and the rug reveal and the rest is history.
Quoted from gweempose:I don't disagree with what you are saying. At the end of the day, some people got very lucky and others got screwed. Are the MG people entitled to that money more than the RAZA/AIW people? Hell no, but it's not like all the MG owners were going to get together and say, "Hey, let's auction off all the games to highest bidders and split the profits among ALL the pre-order people". In this dog eat dog world, that was simply never a realistic scenario.
That's right, that's what the courts are for. All the Raza and Aiw guys getting together like they have for quite some time
I didn't see a reasonable path forward before via litigation, now I do with what has just transpired Always a last resort
Now that the end zone dancing and football spiking is going on, it's time to ratchet up the pressure on Jpop
This is John's doing. No fault of MG guys
Quoted from chadderack:Did John's "Big Labowski" reveal actually happen? Considering how TBL is going now...
I'll never forget. December 17th post expo was supposed to be his own MG rug reveal.
Never happened and the wagons were circling.
He tried to hire a project manager that January, I spoke to the guy afterwards, of course JOHN didn't want to pay him anything
So many life lines the guy had
Quoted from Mr68:Are we seriously talking about Jpop building extra non-working, incomplete games that are woefully short on code, with ball traps, missing parts, toys that don't function and pixelated playfield artwork? And this is just what we know after less than a week.
Sounds like a Kickstarter I'll pass on but good luck in raising the capitol.
Haha, well it seems like there are buyers for it Kim! Hard to believe any left but the way people talk about it here there must be hundreds ready to line up to buy crap
John needs to figure out a way to build 30 of something, with his OWN funds, parts and labor.
He built 20. He can build another 30 and auction those off to pay off the rest of the creditors.
I'm sure Yeti and Applejuice wouldn't mind that option either
You guys have heard how the Kulek hearings have gone in bankruptcy court.
You think it's going to be any different? If Zidware and John are truly bankrupt then it's game over
Otherwise they need to provide refunds or a game, preferably refunds
This thing is FAR from being over
Quoted from TigerLaw:Who would pay to make them though? AP apparently ate the bill/cost on the 19, doubt they would eat the cost on building any more. They got nothing from JPop in the end, he's of no value to AP.
I'm saying you have to squeeze Jpop. He's got a house, nice cars, 401k's etc.
Either figure out a way to make it right OR Zidware will be forced to go bankrupt and then we are looking at the civil case anyhow.
Can't let him float around fiddling and doodling. And he doesn't get to have credit for delivering MG when he was warned not to. "Preferential payments".
Quoted from RobT:What bankruptcy?
The "involuntary" petition that is going to get filed to force him into liquidation and/or dealing with the "preferential payments". Does Zidware have the ability to complete Raza and AIW? Apparently not.
He should have had a plan to deal with everybody, not just a select few. That's on him.
Quoted from vdojaq:Never. No way in hell that would stand up in court. People got what they paid for in MG, a pinball machine. Please explain exactly what is preferential about that?
I'm not going to run through the bankruptcy laws again. Are you kidding me? Are you an attorney? Pay attention and learn something.
If the current lawyer isn't doing something about it, and I suspect he is, then another petition will have to be filed.
Quoted from RobT:The involuntary petition should have been filed a long time ago. With MG's going into owners hands already, seems there have been some missed opportunities to grab onto some of the assets. It will be more difficult at this stage.
Of course it should have been filed earlier, except that now we know what the facts are, that MG's were actually being built by Zidware, which was made clear by AP. Did AP loan any money? What was the quid pro quo?
I don't know why Zane didn't do more in the first place, he should have. I assume that is exactly the direction he's heading in though, haven't talked to him yet.
Quoted from vdojaq:There is NO BANKRUPTCY right now and I do not have to be an attorney to know that. However, you still did not give me an example of JPops preferential payout, bankruptcy rules aside. I have been paying attention and if you expect me to learn something about bankruptcy through your wild rants and wanting to mold the bankruptcy laws to how you see fit, then you would be mistaken. A judge will decide by the bankruptcy rules and laws that apply. Just because you petition for involuntary doesn't mean you will get it. And you can use that petition like a roll of Charmin if any Judge is convinced otherwise by JPop and/or his attorney.
Absolutely clueless. Yes, we will get it based on the facts but then I'd have to explain the accounting aspect to you as well in my role as a CPA
And this is the Wikipedia explanation:
In the United States, a preference in U.S. federal bankruptcy law[8] is a transfer of property by a debtor to its creditor, on account of a pre-existing debt, that is made while the debtor is insolvent[9] and gives the creditor more than it would obtain in a liquidation of the debtor's assets in a bankruptcy proceeding. It is primarily a creature of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code,[10] although some states have similar state laws. If the preferential transaction takes place within a specified period of time before the filing of bankruptcy by or on behalf of the debtor, then the debtor's trustee in bankruptcy is authorized to recover the property preferentially transferred. The mechanism of recovery is the avoidance of the transfer.[11] After such avoidance, the recovered property becomes property of the bankruptcy estate.[12] The period is usually 90 days. However, if the preferential transfer is made to an "insider," then the period is one year. An "insider" is generally a relative or one who has the ability to control the activities of the debtor.[13] The Bankruptcy Code provides some exemptions from these rules to accommodate transfers intended to be contemporaneous, made in the ordinary course of business or to the extent they are made for new value, and others.[14]
Quoted from vdojaq:OK Great...you say I am clueless. Thank you for that.
Still doesn't change a damn thing. We are not the courts , we are not the Judge. IF and when it goes to court, it will be decided there. You can shove all the legal definitions down our throats all you like, doesn't mean it will happen.
You asked for it. Read up
It will happen. Watch and learn. Then you can run your mouth non stop about something you know ZERO about.
Then again, if Zidware is solvent and they can prove it and they have a plan to make Raza, Aiw and vendors whole then that's great.
And if pigs had wings they could fly
Raise your hand folks if you believe Johnny boy has it all figured out. Anybody? Didn't think so
Quoted from Pinballs:Yet 'folks' here want to take my machine away, and from other MG buyers. What a lovely pinball 'community' we have here! FFS...
Nobody wants to take away your precious MG. At least you and a few others are actually keeping what you paid for. I don't know how many times i have to say it, its not the MG buyers fault, its all John.
And you are 100% correct, what a F ing lovely pinball community we have here! For those that don't get it, you have your pin because many others sacrificed. How do you think people that got F ed feel, other buyers and vendors? Guys that got made whole, that's great.
Happy for you.
It's ok to be all in on the LEGAL train when it benefits you, but omg, wtf, when it goes against you its all BS right?
F that. Hypocrites. Comments directed at those who deserve it only.
Quoted from Pinballs:I am not pulling out of that legal action because of receiving MG (maybe the MG component obviously, but not RAZA). Thus, I am actively helping RAZA and AIW customers, and paid $500.00 to join the legal action, putting money where my mouth is.
I feel dreadful for what these guys are going through and am on the same side- I've experienced this with 3 machines after all !
If there is a bankruptcy filing I'll probably join that too, because I believe in justice and fairness.
You seem like a good guy Pinballs, no doubt. And I'm talking to YOUR lawyer tomorrow about what course of action to take now. Anybody understand the issue of "conflict of interest"?
Sometimes there just is no justice in the world, and the world just won't let you be a nice guy no matter how hard you try because of all the dicks that intervene.
This part of pinball can just F ing suck the life and joy for the hobby right out of you. It's the other half, the friends i've made and pins I've played that keep me coming back for now.
I don't know what vibe I'm giving off other than I'm F ing pissed off?
So lets carry on, I'm prepared to drop $5k into the legal action and fund that much every month until what? Justice is done.
Quoted from Drewscruis:If your a CPA/Lawyer, remind me never to take any financial advice from you. especially if your willing to drop that amount of coin a month into an endless pit. You would be better off to just buy a boat, there just holes in the water you throw money into. At least you could get a tan in the process.
Hahaha. Yep, that's what i said when this whole fiasco F ing started. Flushing good $$ after bad. Total waste of $500
Thinking about a good deed here for the F ers that got F ed. Won't happen if I'm rowing in that boat by myself though.
I wonder how the same attorney representing the MG buyer and the RAZA/AIW buyer at the same time is gonna deal with this issue? Anybody want to chime in that knows what I'm talking about?
Real issue is how do we squeeze John into submission. Yet some of you ____ are so worried about your own self its pathetic. Got mine. Nothing to see here now, move on!
Maybe so, maybe not.
Quoted from TigerLaw:He's going to have to conflict out, in my view, if he takes any action contrary to the MG owners that are his clients. Interesting pickle.
Yep.
Btw, John has a house, wife has 401k's, nice cars, aunts and uncles, etc.
And a shitload of other stuff he can auction off.
Plus, he's so sexy in his tucked in t-shirt and jeans combo I'm sure he can get a modeling gig to pay off his debt
It's now or never on the squeeze.
Quoted from Richthofen:401Ks have been mostly judgement proof.
Also John's wife is not liable for his business debts. Only jointly owned property is.
His uncles and aunts are not liable either.
Actually, not "beneficiary Ira's" according to the 2015 Clark supreme court case. 100% attachable.
And i realize what is and is NOT judgment proof. What is a person willing to tap into to make his name and reputation whole again? That is another thing.
Quoted from rommy:Surely everyone can see if he used MY money to make YOUR machine...I have beef. With JPop. Not you. If I sue JPop and the court sees the delivery of that MG made with my money as an unfair transfer, even potentially fraudulent, they may go after whoever JPop gave assets to. That's just what they do.
So if a court were to order a possessor of MG to either pay the court an equitable amount or surrender the machine, it would be JPOP, not the other victims, that would once again be the villain.
Excellent summary in reality. Right F ing on point.
Everybody wants to jump on board until they realize they might be F ed themselves.
At the end of the day, the facts will speak for themselves and the BK court will decide what's right or wrong.
Will the rest of the RAZA/AIW victims care or not?
I dropped $4500 and I just don't care enough about getting it back for myself, never did BUT
Is it the right thing to do now after all of the total horseshit, like Rommy says? For all the vendors and other buyers?
Maybe, maybe not? I will pitch in big time but not if I'm the only one who gives a shit.
I'm watching an Alien video right now that makes me really like pinball versus this despicable F ing exploited overpriced GARBAGE.
What's it gonna be?
Of course i remember Rob! Stand by those comments then and right now.
NOW, we have a different set of facts don't we? MG delivered and Zidware is bankrupt and we have an attorney that has a conflict of interest.
So......what next?
What is next is that I wasn't willing to flush $500 down the toilet on nothing. Now I'll go $5k per month unless i'm the only one fighting the fight.
We are at the 5 yard line. ONLY ON AN INVOLUNTARY BANKRUPTCY FILING
But hey, maybe nobody really ever gave a shit about taking Jpop down. The current civil suit is ZERO, ZILCH, NADA. Then and now.
Talking to Zaney manana
Maybe Yeti, Applejuice, GLM modular, Cointaker, PBL and every other vendor that Jpop stiffed doesn't give a F?
Or maybe anybody that has a dime on Raza or AIW don't care either?
If so, its over and the original lawsuit was total BS from day one.
Either way, I'm looking forward to flush this big swirling turd down the toilet with a plunger asap.
John has a shitload of IP and other assets still available to go get just like Billy B. did.
He got F ed by John and then came back and got some back. Deserves 100% of what he got.
I'm guessing it will be crickets and/or throwing popcorn from the peanut gallery. 
Just another F ed up chapter in pinball history.
There is a great 1/2 that i love and the other 1/2 of pricks that make pinball suck if you let it.
Prior to MG actually being delivered it was highly unlikely anybody like AP would come along. They did
Now he has shown huge demand for those MG pins selling for more than twice what people paid for them
Maybe he won't get anything done ever again but it's much more likely now that someone is going to take a chance on him seeing what those MGs are selling for
If somebody thinks $$$ can be made going forward because of this windfall fiasco, imagine if he actually can produce a pin that plays, with the right partner. He now has something to sell. A track record of people willing to buy despite his history!
He's not going away and the legal battles will only intensify now
All he has to do is slap together 20 boxes of random parts and lights with beautiful artwork and sell them for $30k each
Pussycat bowling up next. Why even code it? Nobody cares, just sell it as a collectible piece of Jpop artwork
Can't happen? He's just proved he could do it
You think there is a shortage of rich people to throw money at shit? For the right guy, fixing this for Jpop is chump change
It's obvious right?
AP isn't the only option in the world. Unfortunately or whatever the case may be, John and his brand of pins isn't going away, especially now.
It's just a question of who and when, not if imo
Quoted from lllvjr:If I drank this would be a good drinking game. Every time you post the imo we take a shot.
Welcome back from the time out. Let's keep moving forward positive
What time out? My self imposed
I don't think there is a shortage of opinions on this topic!
At the end of the day doesn't have to be about getting all butthurt because somebody doesn't agree with somebody else
As a pinball community, we all ought to be looking out for each other but I understand the differences
On a positive note, I'll consider the possibility that Jpop can find someone else to complete Raza and Aiw and whatever else he wants to do
The naysayers can hope for otherwise. Either way it work out at the end of the day
Quoted from TOK:Regardless of how much money someone makes, very few people want to squander it. If it was a well conceived, complete game that was rare for a reason like Big Bang Bar it's a completely different story than Magic Girl -a machine slapped together to try and escape a prison sentence. I think this game will go down as an embarrassing sideline in pinball history. Its worth more right now than it ever will be again simply because people are amazed it came out.
I understand what you are saying. However, he now has a track record of people wanting to buy his limited edition pins, no matter how bad state of affairs is, for $30k plus.
That's what all the jumping up and down and hollering is about and why so many people think its justified due to the "collectibility", "limited" etc.. Thus, some mega wealthy dude might jump in and do it for fun, considering there is a market established for his shit. That's not that hard to figure out.
I'm sure his camp is working hard on exploiting that. Wouldn't you?
If Jpop came out right now and said I'm going to sell 20 of the zombie chick bowling pins and asked for a $10k deposit and a $17k price tag, how many people do you think would sign up?
Gonna buy MG for $30k and not Zombie bowling for $17k to have another "piece of history"? I wouldn't, nor would many but like so many of you guys keep saying, there are plenty of "collectors" that would. The evidence is in.
Quoted from lllvjr:He got lucky with ap.. luck will not strike twice.. raza will never get done... and no one will give him money again. No one had to give him more money for mg to get done like they will on raza... anyway I don't want to keep beating this drum. U will keep doing it
Why do you guys keep beating this drum? Because for the life of me i can't figure out how some of you are so sure that you'll never see John again. You are the ones definitively declaring Jpop dead and gone as if you have some sort of crystal ball.
"No one had to give him more money for MG to get done"? What do you think the Bill Brandes $$$ was? So AP didn't invest a dime then? What are you talking about.
Quoted from benheck:Wanted: Rich person who doesn't have internet access or a grasp of physics. Must love colors and clowns. Call JPOP at 1-800-MONEY-PIT
Billy B. first (very smart guy). AP second (very smart group). Who's next? Jpop to investor, "I'll turn a $17k investment into $30K". "Plenty of collector money pits out there".
Some guys here are taking WAY too much for granted, many people are so stupid with their $$$. I see total shit deals at least once a week, limited partnerships, usually designed to fleece rich doctors. There are a TON of absolutely clueless wealthy people. Just because they make a lot of $$$, most have no idea what to do with it afterwards.
I have one guy, multi millionaire, inherited $$, great guy but not the sharpest tool, would write John a check for $1 million if he met him just to help him, lives on 1000 acres and in a trailer. Then you have the uninformed doctor crew (financially) and that group is endless.
I get it though, some people that have cashed in on Jpop want it over now.
I'm gonna self impose at least a 30 day thread ban. You guys PM me if you figure it all out in the meantime
Quoted from Razorbak86:The "first in line, first in right" rule only applies if a creditor is secured (i.e., the creditor has a lien on specific assets). Most of the creditors here are unsecured.
If the company was insolvent (i.e., Balance Sheet Test: Liabilities > Assets; Cash Flow Test: The company cannot pay its obligations when they become due) AND IN BANKRUPTCY, then all unsecured creditors, without a lien on specific assets, would fall into the same creditor class, and all the creditors within the class would be treated equally, regardless of the specific times the claims were established.
If the company did not have enough cash (or product) to satisfy all claims within a creditor class, then the claims would be addressed on a 'pro rata' basis. For example, if the creditor class had a total of $1,000,000 of claims, and the company only had $200,000 of cash (or product) to distribute, then all creditors within the class would receive 20% of the value of their claim (i.e., $0.20 per dollar owed).
Right on
People can justify it anyway they want. But this is the truth and the law btw
A lot of people got stiffed. The MG people that got their pins, congrats.
The ones trying to flip it for $30-$50k I give no congrats to.
Maybe there really are enough dumb asses to pay that kind of money for garbage but I'm thinking that pool dwindles every day.
If I was crazy enough to pay $30k for a pinball machine to just sit there and look I'd hope somebody would wake me up and say just give the $$$ to charity instead
This is pinball at its finest
Quoted from gweempose:I appreciate iceman's passion, but I think his anger is misguided. The fault does not lie with the MG owners who are selling their games. It lies with the buyers. They are the fools that are paying up for this half baked piece of s**t.
Totally agree Brian and it's not personal with the MG owners. They get what they get. Fine people.
I just don't want to see them profit off this when others got shafted including vendors.
And for that reason I hope they don't get a dime over what they paid. Or at least some reasonable gain like Kim got
$30k-$50k seems so F ing ridiculous.
Now off to selection Sunday and the greatest time of the year!
Quoted from Mr68:I want to stress that my quote is total speculation and based solely on real world typical results. I don't want to give anyone false hope of a settlement or even an acceptable offer. We may ultimately end up in bankruptcy court but for us to come this far and just quit now, would be foolish.
Let's hope John figures out a way to make some more people whole Kim. The lawsuit you guys filed had to play a big part in getting the MG's done.
There won't be any bankruptcy filed after the expiration date that Razor referred to after this week. No need to do it afterwards. A worthless exercise then imo.
I also don't think he'll agree to settle either. A settlement doesn't stop other potential plaintiffs from filing additional future actions against him, subject to any statute of limitations claims he might make.
However, he claims he "onto Zombies and AIW" now that he's finished with MG so according to him operations are in full swing! 
Quoted from spfxted:.....money fixes a lot of crazy shit.....
It really can't fix stupid.
I love all the outrage now. The MG buyers get a game courtesy of Davhil, NOW its not ok for someone else to "bail out" Jpop to build RAZA and AIW for those buyers?
What a f ing joke. Yea or nay, either way, IF they can make it, people need to STFU, its someone else's $$
The reality is it will NEVER happen.
I can't wait to see how they try and thread this needle.
Any solution better not discriminate one group over another. In other words, people that joined in the Jpop suit versus the others.
It's simple to start another suit. After all, when did Jpop deliver MG and say that he is working on RAZA? Yeah, statute of limitations is nowhere near done.
Don't even F ing think about it.
Quoted from frolic:If this is how things shake out I'll be joining a new suit out of principle. I was ok giving up on a failed business but I'm sure as hell not going to fund a new enterprise from my money (the money that went into zids r&d that now is being used by deeproot).
If they want that work, then I'll need to be compensated.
We have already seen the MG fiasco play out. The foundation of those games get made with the bulk of our money.
And then American Pinball did what they did. Whatever.
If this goes to the next level then I'll be contacting you Frolic and others that have contacted me privately.
Then again, don't we really know how this next chapter is going to end? Yep.
No offense to Yeti and Applejuice but John F ed ALOT of people! Period.
He's a con man and ponzi schemer.
Partnering up with what?
There is ZERO chance John will ever be able to redeem himself in the pinball community that knows the history.
Somehow, they better find another batch of pinball buyers that have never heard of him.
Finally, its probably the absolute DUMBEST investment idea i could even come up with. "Distressed debt", this is that and then some. Way beyond.
How many YEARS again did it take to John to put MG out there that is a F ing joke of a pinball machine?
RAZA, another F ing joke. So is AIW.
He is a total F ing disaster on his own. It's BALLY WILLIAMS that made John and gave him the opportunity.
And yet here we go again, FANTASY LAND.
I don't believe John can do ANYTHING without a Bally Williams team. He's already proven that. MG can't even play after 5 years. It's a f ing joke.
What is he going to do with anything else? Con man.
The whole next chapter is another con.
At some point you have to just stick a F ing fork in it. It's over. Time to move on.
Nobody will give a shit about RAZA or AIW.
I guarantee you this $10k plus garbage will suck.
Come on, as a pinball community we can't continue to be this naive and stupid can we?
Quoted from ZNET:We all want Zidware customers and vendors to be compensated. Your fear of "discrimination" as a customer who emphatically chose to refrain from suing is, in my view, profoundly misplaced. Instead, be glad that the heavy lifting was done by a group of your fellow aggrieved customers and that such effort may ultimately mean that you and others (who did not embark on the lawsuit journey) will benefit from those efforts.
It was your choice Bruce and a few others to do whatever is considered the "heavy lifting". I don't think there was anything to gain then, nor do i think there is now from that lawsuit. Nothing has been resolved, nor will it ever be.
But i won't sit back and watch some BS back door deal happen just because somebody joined in on a lawsuit at the time. A new opportunity comes to light and myself and others 100% have the right to seek recourse should we be discriminated against.
Forgive me for being skeptical and jaded of the "legal system" as one of my clients just settled her Will contest case after 2 years the day before trial and after spending $1 million on her defense.
Same legal team, both plaintiff and defense is gearing up on another one of my clients.
The fact that you guys chose to fight John was your choice at the time. What lawyer would prosecute anything for $500 x 15 plaintiffs? None that i know. In fact, the one claim you and he could have made you guys screwed up with the MG pins and fraudulent conveyance of assets to the detriment of the rest of us. That whole thing has been a waste of time boondoggle.
The facts have potentially substantially changed with another alternative to getting RAZA and AIW games out that didn't exist before.
It had ZERO to do with any litigation efforts by anybody.
If somebody like Deeproot wants to invest/blow clients money, the fact that a small group sued John prior somehow gives you some legal precedent is confusing to me. It doesn't.
No offense, but I and others reserve and always have, the right to proceed against John when deemed appropriate.
Quoted from ZNET:You're likely to never know anything about the resolution of the suit, apart from the fact of resolution itself.
And i could care less. Congratulations on whatever you can get out of him. Life is too short to go for pennies.
That doesn't change MY recourse against him and how i might want to proceed or not based on new facts.
Good thing I'm local and venue is now in Bexar county. I have lots of friends here.
Quoted from ZNET:In 2017, there's more reason for all RAZA and AIW customers to be cautiously optimistic than there ever was in previous years, at least from a longterm outlook. I wish that I could include the vendors in that statement.
Honestly, I wish the pinball gods would stick a fork in John. I guess not yet.
That said, look at the pathetic state MG is in after 5 yrs. How can anybody have any hope for anything else?
Deeproot was selling Life Settlements and now they are "the best" at making pinball machines? My jaw is dropped wide open right now.
We would have to suspend all common sense and reality to believe that nonsense right?
Again, I don't begrudge anything you guys can get out of John personally but i see the effort as way underfunded and too vague.
He did some 1/4 ass effort on MG with more wasted $$. Now what just to avoid further personal liability and preserve his massive F ing ego? He's a ponzi scheme con man in my experience.
Slick Johnny.
Quoted from Mr68:There are benefits to being involved in the lawsuit and benefits not being involved. I chose to participate as it suits my control freak, type A personality. More specifically, I like having control and influence on the events in my life, win or lose.
I also like being privy to real evidence and details as opposed to Pinside misinformation, speculation and gossip.
I don't mind other people benefiting from me doing the heavy lifting and in fact, I will hold that thought with great pride if they do. I just hope those riding our coattails won't be smug about.
And don't assume if we legally prevail that anyone else can just show up and it will be Christmas time. Plan on them stonewalling and likely forcing people to begin a brand new, lengthy lawsuit. Morally bad yes, but it's smart business as people who chose not to fight the first round, will likely walk away again. Especially when it's old news. The odds are heavy in their favor on this and they will bank on it.
And consider this. If another unfortunate situation comes along and anyone sees my name on it. It will be an "Oh shit" moment for them while others will be seen as toothless internet barking.
Note to all: I'm responding to Doug's comments but my answers are not specifically directed at him, but in general. Doug has become a great asset to me I appreciate his thoughts. He and I just act like we're married but we're not.
Haha yep Kim, you know I'm all for you guys kicking his ass!
The MG people certainly owe you a debt of gratitude and I suppose if I was in on that game I'd be all over him too.
Kim and Bruce are great guys. I get a little frustrated when I see John keep popping up
We shall see what happens. Can't wait for the big announcement
Quoted from Mr68:How do you code for ball traps, missing toys/mechs and no shooter lane groove?
You can’t be serious. No shooter lane groove!
Man you fleeced poor old Kman Kim
He did say he got obessed with the MG idea but seriously, getting 2 thinking he was going to flip one. Wtf
Where would you even put #2 in a small NY apartment?
Maybe route it with Crazy Levi?
People put quarters in and it does nothing and they beat the shit out of it!
Quoted from Mr68:I'm glad that people think I'm so clever but fact is, I just got lucky being approached by a motivated buyer under the Jpop spell.
After years of clear and convincing evidence that exposed Jpop, one would have to ask why would there be any "motivated buyers" at that point?
In NO WAY was he a victim of Jpop. Stupidly believing what a serial liar was telling him after all that transpired previously? That's on him.
$23k for ANY pin is a great deal for the Seller so its fair to say you fleeced him. No need to feel bad about it, clever or not, it is what it is.
Then when you go and put a despot down on another MG? WTF. That's not Jpop victimhood, that's beyond stupid and really put Cointaker in a bind as they didn't move the pin when they could have. He knew exactly what he was doing and it was STUPID.
Quoted from Mr68:FYI: Several Magic Girls sold around the same time as mine and for a lot more money. I was told 25K or more and the highest pre-order spot sold for $50K.
I don't believe any of it but whatever. So there were other dopes/overzealous people out there, sure? $50k, no way anyone could be that stupid. Now Chris told me he thought the value was going to go to $50k on the "greatest collectible pin ever" and I should grab one right away, but the bloom fell off that rose VERY quickly, and most sane people knew better, like yourself.
I felt bad for Chris, he wasn't in his right mind, and told him he was an idiot to his face for buying a MG for any amount of $$, during the time I guess he was lining up the purchase from you. So congrats on that one Kim! I tried to talk him out of it.
He wanted a piece of pinball history and he got it. And later realized he made a horrible deal. That's ok, it happens.
I lost the sympathy for him after hearing the Cointaker story! WTF. He made his own bed and then whined his way out of a deal he made with Cointaker on a second MG.
He admitted how stupid he was so hopefully he can get help and move on from his buddy Jpop! Like everyone should.
Let's just say this....
IF, IF, IF, IF Magic Girl gets made by Deepthroat then the current batch of garbage isn't worth what you could get for firewood prices.
Yes everybody knows it, or most do, kind of like all the remakes CGC are doing and crushing the value of the "original titles"
Why? Because they are 100x F ing better!!!!
Over time, either way, MG is a total STIFF and will NEVER be anything. The layout sucks even IF they remake it.
The $$$ is there, that's the somewhat easy part. And its fun to spreadsheet cash flow/projections and spend OPM (Other people's money).
The thing is, execution and delivery is a whole different animal.
What i see sitting around in that picture is a shitload of overhead with no revenue coming in yet.
I'd love to see a new pinball model, whatever it is, and more pinball is good pinball!
Nordman and Barry certainly take it to another level.
This should be some show in 2018!!!
Quoted from spfxted:He was collecting money on what... like 5 machines when he knew he couldn't make them. He's a crook! Period!
And did it for I’d say at least 2 yrs before that fateful expo with the other Lebowski crooks
It was shocking some of those conversations I had with him post expo
I don’t believe he ever had intention of making those pins himself. He knew he couldn’t. His massive ego believed someone would step in and bail him out at some point. And I guess they now have
All the while all he worried about was getting himself paid a salary with enticing more and more deposit funds from unsuspecting people.
Quoted from rommy:Also personal liability was found, corporate veil pierced. Told ya JPop. If you don't run it like a business you can't use it to hide behind. That is what the Court found.
Perfect example. Tell my clients all the time. Follow the corporate formalities or lose the shield! It's not that hard, simple in fact.
Congratulations to all the guys that stuck it out and received some justice. The $$ is one thing, getting a "judgment" against him is priceless.
Does he have personal assets to collect against? Will he file personal bankruptcy?
Quoted from toyotaboy:Is it safe to assume that zidware was never setup as an LLC either? Legally speaking, if you setup a contract and you dont' fullfill it (and can't refund), I assume you are liable personally. I also assume if he can't pay (or get a giant loan or sell off his house), that he could serve jail time for fraud?
It was an “Inc.”. I assume S Corp which means whomever set it up didn’t know what they were doing. LLC the answer for enhanced asset protection and flexibility
The criminal case involving fraud will never happen at this point even clearly at the end of the Jpop party thats exactly what he was doing collecting AIW $$$ knowing that he couldn’t even complete MG.
Yet he certainly kept paying himself
Quoted from gweempose:Correct. It was an S Corp.
While there might be other remedies available and ways to attack the individual and LLC here it is under Illinois, some states better than others
The reason a creditor doesn't want a "charging order" is because they only get the right to receive the INCOME from the LLC, however, the LLC owners don't make distributions and the creditor ends up with a K-1 for the profits and zero cash to pay the income tax! S-Corp, a creditor can step into your shoes as the owner of the company.
What Is an LLC?
A hybrid of the "S" Corporation and a partnership, an "LLC" combines the corporate characteristic of limited liability with the tax advantages and flexibility of partnerships.
What Protection Does an LLC Offer?
Being a member of an LLC offers more protection to the members interest, which makes an LLC very attractive. A creditor can only get a charging order against a member of an LLC and cannot go after the LLC's assets directly. They must instead obtain a charging order from a court, which is not a preferred remedy for a creditor.
What Is a Charging Order?
With a charging order, a creditor has the right to receive any distributions in which the owner of the interest is entitled to. A charging order is issued by the court and instructs the manager(s) to give the distributions that the debtor would ordinarily be entitled to to the creditor until the unpaid judgment is satisfied.
Illinois LLC Act
At first glance, the Illinois LLC Act appears to protect the assets of an LLC. Specifically, Section 30-20 provides that a charging order is available to creditors of the members of an LLC. More importantly, 805 ILCS 180/30-20(e) states:
This Section provides the exclusive remedy by which a judgment creditor of a member or a transferee may satisfy a judgment out of the judgment debtor's distributional interest in a limited liability company.
Quoted from hank527:24010 posts. Will there ever be a longer thread? This thing would takes a week or more to read.
I hope not, it would require another massive pinball scam and shitstorm! The Jpop's, Heighway's, Kulek's and Dutch boys have been weeded out. Not much garbage left.
Rather not go through that again Hank
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