Frolic ,
Why are you not going to his shop ???
(Topic ID: 92436)
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Quoted from Hwawonyu:
Frolic ,
Why are you not going to his shop ???
Don't need a dose of kool-aid. Need a dose of business reality.
Boerne, TX
Quoted from flynnibus:
Go back to interviews from designers in the 90s at WMS... the factory schedule ruled everything. Their job was to get the job done on time to 'feed the beast' because if the factory isn't running, no one is making any money.
How do you feed the factory? Of course they have to keep it going and with the new factory they have to expand into other lines of business, not just "contract manufacturing" for pinball machines. And that is apparently their new business model.
Stern would not have a factory or employees if they didn't "license and develop" pinball machines. That's why they employ people like Ritchie and Lyman and I'm sure Keith can speak to the days of cost cutting (about the time WOF was coming out?) when they had to trim overhead because sales and margins of pinball machines were tanking.
I can make money by billing out for Wills and Trusts, yet I need my computer to draft the documents, and I need my computer and employees to be busy, that doesn't mean that keeping my computer busy is my primary focus, its just the end result of my efforts and I add more people/capacity as my business grows. That's the easy part.
I have 8 employees and other fixed overhead. The lifeblood of my business is the "development" of new business from marketing, referrals, etc.
Quoted from lllvjr:
Keep telling ur self he's protecting ur product... Two more years from now when raza still hasn't shipped and u have a melt down like mg owners did after expo
You don't know PDXMonkey if you think he will have a meltdown. He's chill and doesn't let shit ruin his life. It's only pinball.
Quoted from Mr68:
Hey guys. Would you kindly take your Stern debate private.
Thanks
The debate is pertinent to Jpop paying Stern or JJP on a contract basis to produce these pins and may be the only way they ever get made. Maybe Spooky?
Quoted from iceman44:
The debate is pertinent to Jpop paying Stern or JJP on a contract basis to produce these pins and may be the only way they ever get made. Maybe Spooky?
He thinks of all of them as "the enemy" (especially Spooky, ask Ben 
). The same ones he has to protect himself with patents and super secrecy. No way he does business with any of them.
Quoted from frolic:
He thinks of all of them as "the enemy" (especially Spooky, ask Ben
What he thinks or thought was before Expo. He will have no choice but to farm production out to somebody and face reality.
If that is not what he's thinking then we can write off our Razas.
Quoted from ChrisVW:
I'm going to have to have to call BS on that. That was when he was designing at his house. I was there working a week before this video was shot and MG and BHZA (along with the redemption game) were all Nordmanite models with black and white paper art, the original Egyptian game before the "magic" redesign.
There were NO operational prototype games at that time. Not even by the loosest definition.
And 3 years later, they still dont. Some of ya must have A LOT of money to tie it up into 1 and in some cases 2 games for 4 years or more. I wish ya'll luck, but this just seems very fishy..
I believe that Jpop is slowly progressing toward a finished proto of both MG and RAZA. It is frustrating to see glimpses of such amazing artistry/engineering both publicly and privately, but knowing realistically that only a joint venture for manufacturing will lead to actual games being shipped. I don't know if Zidware is capable of creating that relationship. Remember back to the initial announcement of Ben Heck Zombie Adventure Land? There was a $1,000 option to have John and Ben come to your house and help assemble the game.
I often wonder if John has read this thread. It was a disappointment for me to read that he viewed the private blog as more of a one way communication system. I got the impression that the blog is now viewed as a favor to the owners. In the earlier going he was active, accepting owner suggestions and feedback.
I hope he pulls through with an impressive reveal in January as expected. I have recently felt more like a "Hopeful" than an "Owner".
I am a supporter with my payments current, but like many others cannot justify investing more. It is well past the time for some clear evidence of urgency on John's part.
The debate is pertinent to Jpop paying Stern or JJP on a contract basis to produce these pins and may be the only way they ever get made. Maybe Spooky?
Ice. You guys are so far off into the weeds its unreal. Read your posting and Flynnibus's quote within it. How is any of that even remotely pertinent to Jpop paying Stern or JJP?
flynnibus said:
Go back to interviews from designers in the 90s at WMS... the factory schedule ruled everything. Their job was to get the job done on time to 'feed the beast' because if the factory isn't running, no one is making any money.How do you feed the factory? Of course they have to keep it going and with the new factory they have to expand into other lines of business, not just "contract manufacturing" for pinball machines. And that is apparently their new business model.
Stern would not have a factory or employees if they didn't "license and develop" pinball machines. That's why they employ people like Ritchie and Lyman and I'm sure Keith can speak to the days of cost cutting (about the time WOF was coming out?) when they had to trim overhead because sales and margins of pinball machines were tanking.
I can make money by billing out for Wills and Trusts, yet I need my computer to draft the documents, and I need my computer and employees to be busy, that doesn't mean that keeping my computer busy is my primary focus, its just the end result of my efforts and I add more people/capacity as my business grows. That's the easy part.
I have 8 employees and other fixed overhead. The lifeblood of my business is the "development" of new business from marketing, referrals, etc.
My question above is simply rhetorical so please don't respond or get defensive. We all can go off on tangents and I was just politely trying to reel you in.
I'm done on this subject and I hope you are as well.
Quoted from blimpey:
I hope he pulls through with an impressive reveal in January as expected.
Could you explain please. I thought the big reveal was December 17.
Could you explain please. I thought the big reveal was December 17.
He's referring to the RAZA reveal.
Quoted from Jokercyclone:
Let's hope his New Years resolution is communicate better.
What year?
knowing realistically that only a joint venture for manufacturing will lead to actual games being shipped. I don't know if Zidware is capable of creating that relationship. Remember back to the initial announcement of Ben Heck Zombie Adventure Land? There was a $1,000 option to have John and Ben come to your house and help assemble the game.
At this point I would gladly pay the extra $1000 to not even have it assembled. Just throw the loose parts into an empty refrigerator box and mail it to me.
At this point I would gladly pay the extra $1000 to not even have it assembled. Just throw the loose parts into an empty refrigerator box and mail it to me.
LOL!! At the time I would have never considered the build option... I couldn't agree with you more at this point! 
At this point I would gladly pay the extra $1000 to not even have it assembled. Just throw the loose parts into an empty refrigerator box and mail it to me.
Now that is funny! 
That's why I said the other day, give us the full blown cab, play field an whatever parts you got and at least we'll have something to look at 
My question above is simply rhetorical so please don't respond or get defensive. We all can go off on tangents and I was just politely trying to reel you in.
I'm done on this subject and I hope you are as well.
I'm out of the weeds, good lord, thanks for bringing me back in
In that March 2012 video he did say he was cranking out 20 hrs. a day, 7 days a week.
By my calculation that is about 17,500 hours! If he collects 17k for 50 MG's and at least 1/2 of the $840k goes to BOM at this point then that's earning about $24 per hour in labor.
If it takes another 2 yrs to get MG's done and out the door he's earned about $14 per hour. 
It's still a better gig than flipping burgers and McD's....
Then you add in the Raza and AIW collections and that's probably another $1 million or so roughly collected to date.
Can't possibly have burned through all that money unless he's paying himself a 250k salary with our funds. 
I often wonder if John has read this thread
He hasn't been on the site since sep 30th (unless he's visiting without logging in to lurk privately)
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/jpop
Quoted from toyotaboy:
He hasn't been on the site since sep 30th (unless he's visiting without logging in to lurk privately)
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/jpop
As you don't have to log-in to view posts, why should he bother to if he can just read the comments anonymously?
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
As you don't have to log-in to view posts, why should he bother to if he can just read the comments anonymously?
Doubt seriously he would be doing that.... way too fragile to handle these comments.
Toronto, ON
So, have any of you owners sent more money since the start of this thread? I believe there's been requests but I haven't seen if anyone paid up.
John's stonewalling has been somewhat effective. He's ignored the repeated requests on the blog and people have stopped asking.
John's stonewalling has been somewhat effective. He's ignored the repeated requests on the blog and people have stopped asking.
You are right. So I just requested a timeframe on when we might expect a response to the repeated requests for a project timeframe.
Probably won't even get the effort of any response at all but just to let him know I haven't forgotten.
Honestly I wouldn't even know what to recommend to people on pre-order lists... if you're all in and have been waiting 3-4 years, what's a few more years for MG? For the other two games, you're going to have to use every drop of patience you have. Anything quicker will be a pleasant surprise for all involved.
Shit show
Are you upset? I couldn't tell. 
Never mind, I will just ignore. Carry on.
Chris
Man I used to give other people like Rarehero so much crap for saying games get delivered by 2018 or 2020, whatever it was.
RAZA and AIW will be lucky to see the light of day by then I think.
Maybe 2017 best case, if ever.
I could never see that as even being possible from a business standpoint.
Obviously he just rolls along. Not a care in the world.
Obviously he just rolls along. Not a care in the world.
It seems that way. He reminds me of the Dunken Donuts "Time to make the donuts" guy. Gets out of bed in the morning, goes to work every day, making donuts.
But in this case, no one eats the donuts.
Obviously he just rolls along. Not a care in the world.
And why do you think he would go about things any differently. We know he lurks here. He has read comments from buyers like yourself (a lawyer nonetheless) advising that everyone doesn't have much recourse. JPop is banking on your apathy. Calling your bluff so to speak. As I said before, sooner rather than latter, an owner will get fed up and force this dying on the vine project in one direction or another. It is my sincere hope that direction is completion.
You are right. So I just requested a timeframe on when we might expect a response to the repeated requests for a project timeframe.
Probably won't even get the effort of any response at all but just to let him know I haven't forgotten.
Sorry, I shouldn't laugh. It's insane that he just refuses to respond.
Quoted from Skins:
And why do you think he would go about things any differently. We know he lurks here. He has read comments from buyers like yourself (a lawyer nonetheless) advising that everyone doesn't have much recourse. JPop is banking on your apathy. Calling your bluff so to speak. As I said before, sooner rather than latter, an owner will get fed up and force this dying on the vine project in one direction or another. It is my sincere hope that direction is completion.
The problem is everyone is so paranoid that they might miss out on a cool game, that they're paralyzed (I supposed that could be we're, since I'm not really doing anything either). John has sufficiently exhibited that he won't respond to negative comments, or requests for timelines. I hate to say don't bother any more, but really, why bother.
I'm at the point that I'm pissed at John going around not caring about any of this, just playing in his little consequence-free fantasy world. I would personally rather join a joint action if it meant getting anything back and stopping the charade, even if that killed the projects and made John get a real job. The problem is that so many others don't want that, and I frankly don't care enough to be the one that instigated the uprising that ruined everyone else's dreams (fantasy).
It's sad, but I'm basically so apathetic, mixed with a side of pissed, that I've for the most part decided not to think about it any more. Funny thing is I wouldn't have even cared about the delays if John would have been remotely upfront about how and why things are behind. So much could have been solved with a little bit of transparency, but then he wouldn't be able to ignore the people demanding refunds and accountability then would he?
The second stern puts there monitor in the wrestlemaina play field where John took his patent out he will waste more time trying to sue them I'm sure
The second stern puts there monitor in the wrestlemaina play field where John took his patent out he will waste more time trying to sue them I'm sure
I've been wondering, what the real point of these patents are. Let's say John is successful defending a screen placed at the back of the playfield. So the greater pinball world is stifled while 100-ish owners wait for their machines. And the 100 of us fund the patents AND the patent defense, while we wait for our games.
Quoted from epthegeek:
Just remember, everyone saying nasty things about John on online are just complimenting him.
(Paraphrasing John from his Expo "Nothin' But Cabinets" presentation)
by "saying nasty things" you mean "asking when the games might be done".
and by "everyone" you mean "his customers".
I've been wondering, what the real point of these patents are. Let's say John is successful defending a screen placed at the back of the playfield. So the greater pinball world is stifled while 100-ish owners wait for their machines. And the 100 of us fund the patents AND the patent defense, while we wait for our games.
I'm afraid that if this is the kind of stuff that John is patenting, you can consider yourselves investors and this investment to be a total loss.
Quoted from jwo825:
I'm afraid that if this is the kind of stuff that John is patenting, you can consider yourselves investors and this investment to be a total loss.
Investors get equity in exchange for risk. More like Patrons of the Arts.
Funny thing is, not funny haha but funny, that the Predator pin is so unbelievably delayed ( was initially roumord to be near WoZ's date), even TH and MMR which you would think would have been easier to complete what with JJP and his team of workers and already one pin under his belt.
Predator almost seems like a basic system 11 type game, would assume that would be done start to finish in under 24 months.
With John not doing a remake or a simple design or working within an huge organization but instead trying to re-invent everything from lights to nuts and bolts (it wouldn't surprise me if he was actually) the timetable for John must be Predator/TH/MMr times 2 or 3.
So while I'm disappointed, I'm not surprised when you consider those other examples I listed that are also delayed.
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