There might be a handful of people in Group 1 at best. I'm pretty sure people are operating today with eyes wide open today.

For Group 2, and IF it goes a little further down the road, I'm pretty sure you'd be surprised IF JJP is doing the production, sourcing and Keefer is doing the programming and video.

The weekend is right around the corner, let's see what happens and who's there. The no-go price point is probably above 10k based on most of the people I've talked to.

Times 1000 Jim. The 16k pin was beaten down 2 seconds after Bill's email was released! He is fully aware and acknowledges that is pure fantasy at 199 pins.

Given that there has to be quantity for a certain well know manufacturer to produce these 3 pins IF there is any chance whatsoever, it's gonna have to get below the 10k level and you are right, it better be fantastic.

That might mean chunking some of the expensive parts and features to get the BOM right. And you'll need someone with scaling/purchasing power to drive that BOM down further.

My guess is that MG at the show will dazzle and then SOMETHING will come out of this whole mess.

After I think John files for voluntary bankruptcy protection, yes Zane D. Smith thanks you for all of your donations!

Anything that happens will arise out of the ashes of bankruptcy. A huge IF.

Ok let's try and stick a fork in the Bill tries to keep the MG pin for himself after the show idea.

I'll bet anyone $1,000 right now that he doesn't do that and I'll give you 3-1 odds!

Any takers? I'll also do the standard case of beer bet. RD?

Pretty F ing disappointing. Not a single taker on my bet. It's 3 cases of beer to 1? What's not to like?

Where's RD for crying out loud?

Can we extend the hope for at least a little while longer? I'm not ready to flush this turd down the toilet. I feel another one coming and I haven't even wiped yet.

Play some pinball people, have a little patience, and there will be plenty of time to bury this thing.

Where are the Zane D. Smith people?

Don't forget "good faith"

What kind of "justice"? Zip, zilch and nada. Flush it down the tubes with Zaney. Zane D. has taken the $$$ and is laughing his ass off right now.

I will buy the drinks with Hilton and anybody else that wants one at the next expo fiasco!

Including the Zane survivors.

Ladies, I have a "taker", its Sad Sack!

And he doesn't even care about ODDS. So its a Case for Case bet!

Are you in ZenTron?

Not for me. Just another total waste of money as you well know!

And btw, JPoop will file for VOLUNTARY bankruptcy after the show, don't need Zaney D. to realize that.

Yet, I don't see any Zaney yahoo's pumping it up lately?

I throw another bet into the scenario. I'lll wager that Zaney's can't recover a DIME from Jpoop to be distributed to anybody.

I'll take a case of beer against ANYBODY that can prove a dime of recovery from Zaney!

It's called "voluntary" BK. I'm past stupid, but hey, I don't need "big balls" to sue anybody I've been sucking balls for 4 years now. And Zaney is just making shit worse. You know, the attorney black hole.

Now I have Sad Sack on the hook for a one to one. He wants Leinenkugel!

And besides, put it up, $$$ beer or not, at least i can recoup something here

But..........I'm thinking that Zaney has sued Jpoop, after taking mucho $$$, and I do realize that Jpoop can go into "voluntary BK"

And GL going after Jpoop's personal assets, I'm sure Zaney will get it done! He is after all, Zane D. Smith, attorney at law. What a F ing joke that is.

Nope. Not a F ing dime for Zaniac's!

And you know it. A waste of F ing $$$

You can't be serious about recovering a F ing Nickel re this mess! I already have Sad Sack down for a case, what does that say? Hehe

The last thing I'm going to do is BLOW more $$ down the black hole of some dipshit lawyer to get NOTHING

Honestly, there is NO angle here Rob. Bill has about a 1% better chance of getting it done versus Zane. And Zane has a ZERO chance of doing a F ing thing!

The Zanefest will result in a big fat ZERO, just like Jpoop. And I give Bill a scintilla of a hope.

How about that?

It's OVER. Ask Rommy and that prick Zane D. Smith.

See wager above Lowepg, you don't have the BALLS as usual.

Even Sad Sack did.

I'm glad you are thrilled that it's "over" Rob. I'm sure you are extremely happy about the misery of all of this.

As for Zane D. Prick, I have zero skin in the legal scam other than a bystander watching it all play out.

Like I said, where are the Zaniac's now?

At least bet me a case of beer counselor? No guts?

I've BEEN SCREWED. Do you get that RobT? What about you?

Keep supporting the dipshit A hole lawyers here, I wouldn't expect anything less from you.

I have ZERO at stake other than what I've already lost. Can you get that?

What is YOUR problem? I'm calling out the Zane D. Smith joke. Get it? Have a problem with it?

If you do, why don't you step in? I'm pissed and you have ZERO at risk. So go call Zane

Go troll the Predator thread Lowepg, seriously, everybody is getting tired of your act.

Keep pounding the LEGAL drum all you want! You have ZERO at risk.

It's ok Lowepg, we all know what you are about.

At least Rob cares about the owners and we can debate what's right or wrong but with you its pathetic

Btw, I'm calling Zane D. Smith an "ass", not the people that have wasted their $$ with him.

Yes G, you know the outcome as well. I know you do. And the bet still stands.

And I'll bet anybody else that Bill won't grab shit in bankruptcy! 100%

And I respect RobT times 1000 over Zane D.

And 4% of nothing is still NOTHING.

Ok, we all know it's over.

Son of a Bitch. How it evolves into bitching at each other I don't know!

Deep breath everybody, answers and final pain factor coming soon. I'm ready

Thanks AGAIN for your opinion Lowepg. The same exact one you give over and over again.

And you seem to relish in the misery of others, but that's ok, you are entitled to keep posting the same garbage over and over again. Coming from you, it doesn't mean a thing.

I respect Rob and G and so many others that weigh in on what is going on. Positive or negative.

I guarantee you Jar, after all these years, I might be "drunk posting" again this weekend after the dust settles on this thing, whatever you want to call it.

And it might be epic, with Bill commentary as well. Who knows, the whole thing is just a terrible fiasco. We will all move on down the road, John has to somehow live with himself.

And I think John has a total lack of self awareness and will never understand what he's done to the pinball community, and unfortunately despite all litigation attempts.

As i shut it down tonight, turning off my TWD and AC/DC and putting the tarps on, its ok, I love pinball and this won't really affect me over the long term, that simple.

It's...... who you are. 1400 miles or not. I'm right here, all the time. Come see me.

Have another Jack and Coke. And go try and bait somebody else into whatever BS you have going on.

Time to end this thread. Your miserable hatred of everything and everybody that has gone down this road is despicable.

Please take it down Marcus. It's over.

The rest of you people that support this should be ashamed of yourselves.

Let him leave it up Chris, he has NOTHING at risk and does this in every JJP, SkitB and Jpop thread seeking to rain down misery on all of us for whatever BS reasons he has.

Doesn't matter, there are plenty of people like yourself that really CARE and are affected by what goes on in our close knit pinball community.

"What goes around comes around".

It's time to move on and we'll see what happens this weekend. There are other possibilities for us down the road, stay tuned.

Because of the garbage like Lowepg posts non stop in this thread and others I have asked to have it shut down.

We can stay together outside of this BS. No moderation necessary Lowepg, you have made it crystal clear its time to stick a fork in this thread.

Gotta see it through to the bitter end. Discussing it good, bad or indifferent is what it should be. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and you are right Greg, just drain it if you don't like it.

Jpop isn't gonna kill pinball either, just a massive speed bump along the way.

Thanks brother! Likewise. Beer is on me when we cross paths. I feel terrible about recommending Jpop a few years ago to you

The guys that have met me know me as a gentle laid back soul!

That can go into a passionate outrage. Sometimes drunk posting last night was not.

Over the years of being on Pinside some people have the ability to flip your switch. Lowepg is one of them, from the Woz days. It is what it is

It's over now, no big deal. I'm certainly not gonna lose any sleep over it

Glad I could provide some entertainment for you guys while we wait for the big reveal

Anyhow, as RD would tell you, beers on me at next gathering. I'll be using Sad Sacks case!

Sorry to the mods for elevating this emotional Jpop shitstorm

John obviously doesn't know what "hard work" is. It's complete utter BS, everything that comes out of his mouth!

He's a narcissist and has been living a LIE for the last 4 years.

"Caretaker of pinball". "Doing it for the love of the game". "Just trying to make great pinball". Can't tell you how many times he kept saying that in my conversations with him. I'd love to throw up all over him right now.

I'll say it again. He had NOBODY, riding his ASS for years, he had all the ASS KISSERS hanging around him and telling him how great he was and what a genius he is.

The thing I'm sick about is knowing what i know now, NOT getting after his ass two years ago when shit started to not make sense.

I hope somebody can actually get through to his personal assets through litigation, even though he files bankruptcy for Zidware.

Maybe that's why I drink a beer or two on occasion, i work my ass off and need a stress reliever every now and then

I might have another Hulk moment this weekend, if only Scarlett would be there to calm me down.

If it doesn't work Bill, and major kudos to you and the guys that worked to get it going, despite the usual John Dbaggery, I would pay $$ to have BURN IT DOWN party.

Let's all get together in Vegas, take it out to the dessert, set up the live streaming feed, and burn that MF er to the ground.

In fact, we can do it at the "Burning Man" party. Throw it on the pile.

No offense Bill, but i have ZERO interest in this garbage showing up in a museum!

Btw, I'm hoping you really can pull this one out of your ass. A miracle achievement.

So you are ready to start this up again huh

I'm 6-3 and 230 and I guarantee you I can hold my liquor

Already hitting the jack and coke like "a little bitch huh"

Btw, I'll let you know when I'm in your back yard and we will see who the "little bitch" is. Your words

My cousins live in Cary and I was born in Smithfield so I'll be visiting this summer. Let's get together and have a few drinks

Likewise Yeti. Great work. Glad to support you!

Are u sure it's done and you won't be filing BK anytime soon

Btw Yeti, feel free to offer a Premium and Pro version!

You need a marketing lesson from Stern. See how they do it

Ok Ben, whatcha got for sale?

Put some back glass stuff up

^^^^^^^^^ And what Tiger said as well.

He couldn't have sunk his own ship any worse. It very well could have been saved, many people tried to help and he KNEW he was in trouble and kept taking money from people.

Why he torpedoed himself will always blow my mind.

There is only one saving grace in this whole equation.

Last August or so, several people, including myself and Bill were trying to get in Magic Girl, thinking it was close to being done based on his representations, and we were put on "the list" of buyers that he was going to raise up to 50.

We tried to give him our $$$ for the MG waiting line and he did refuse to accept it! He told me to give him about 30-60 days to get everybody in line but to "be ready" when it came time to pay up.

Had i done that, along with others, and had he taken the $$$, i promise you this, I would have made the Hulk look like a pansy. So he knew the jig was up then BUT he still took in Raza and AIW money.

Really sick at the whole shitterie, should have known, taken the blinders off. STUPID

Yep

Yep

I believe he has until the 8th to answer the "Bruce Zamost" lawsuit.

Like Boo and Tiger and many of us have said, let the general denials fly!

Then its up to the plaintiffs to spend more $$ to seek discovery and depositions.

By then, Jpopadeuce has thrown himself into bankruptcy.

Tiger has alluded to the difficulty in "alter ego" theory and piercing the corp veil. I agree its difficult but I've seen a few cases here in San Antonio where two separate "builders", imagine that, came to me after the fact to discuss what they could do.

Well, here was what you should have done BEFORE you didn't follow the minimal corporate formalities and that really good plaintiffs lawyer got a judgement against you and your personal assets. I was surprised at how little it really took in those two cases.

However, builders don't get very much sympathy here in Texas I suppose because they aren't really held accountable to many standards, credentials or occupational regulation.

Talk about Ponzi schemes, using somebody's $$$ to finish the prior house(s) and when the house of cards come crumbling down there is usually two or three bag holders.

They just shut down the entity, and open up for business under another name.

Maybe John will try that? Hehe

So in the meantime, let's pop a top and get excited about this weekend!

I really can't wait to see what's in store for us, plus the show in general should be great. Live streaming. Aaron will post the link here

Learn something every day!

Didn't know that

Wife and kids went to New York City

I'm gonna play a lotta pinball tonight

I'm gonna watch a lot of the show stream

And I'm probably gonna drink a case of beer!

As if it was ever a possibility, I won't be paying 16k for a pin of 199

The way I look at it now, I saved 17k minus about $4500 in total deposit money lost

I feel lucky to get out of this not pulling two hamstrings from grabbing my ankles for 4 years

Btw, all you guys that worked to make this happen, dgarret, Pdx and The rest of Bills crew, great job!

And let's not forget Cointaker, GLM and all the other vendors that put so much time and $$ into this. Especially sorry you guys got F ed

And Aaron, Yeti, secret manager guy, etc

All you guys are great

Here here, I'll drink to that!

Have I missed anything on the "private owners group"?

I'm gonna organize the Private Vegas burning man trip.

I'll make it public here first though

If only we were up in the great NW Jar!

I should have planned better but a pinball show was not a good excuse for me not going to New York with family

Work shit sounds a whole lot better

Not tonight Erik, I'm in happy happy mode!

The Hulk mode cannot be triggered, I will stay very positive and sarcastic but will not cross the line.

No need to worry mods, it's all coming down to the end of this fiasco and I feel somewhat liberated by just seeing what could have been.

Life is short and we move on

Who would know Yeti? I've got 3 girls, I feel your pain

And yet, they have me wrapped and always will

Me and Louie are hanging out by the pool right now

He is cat number 4. My oldest daughter brought him home from college.

I have Max, Jake, Benny and now Louie. WTF

image.jpg

I've got 5 16 oz'ers down from the fridge and the one in my hand plus a handful from the garage gameroom already down, which is where I'm heading now for the stream and playing pinball.

. Man I love it when I get a little break!!!

16 oz'ers is the only way to go.

image.jpg

Max. This MFer is the cat King

He runs the entire neighborhood herd.

He is 100x smarter than Popadeauce

He has had a long day so I gave him a break. Just taking a nap before nightly patrol

image.jpg

I hear ya and have to all settle on something.

EDITED, names removed.

Thx for all of your help Joe along with everybody else that is pitching in.

It's a great effort.

At least we get to see a MG in all its glory.

And I don't know how to thank whomever or what to say after this weekend.

It is what it is.

Very insightful.

Chris at Cointaker and Tony at GLM should be there ripping out the parts they never got paid for Too classy for that.

My sarcasm didn't come through loud enough! Yes, I hope the vendors are able to get made whole first, and if this goes forward, I'm happy Bill is going to do that up front for you guys.

If anybody wants Zidware assets such as that prototype, get a judgment against Zidware and then have the Sheriff execute it.

There are plenty lining up to do just that.

Shouldn't be a surprise at all. It's any and every pin that gets that treatment, from Stern and JJP, ad nauseum!

All I care about right now is hoping Bill can put the right pricing structure together to get the quantity we need to have these pins get made.

As for the vendors, you guys will still have a good chance to get paid even if/when Zidware goes through bankruptcy, which is really how Bill should proceed anyhow. You get rid of the owner issues and then you can take care of the vendors and figure out what if anything you want to do with the prior owners.

Aren't you a software guy? Is this your professional opinion again, over and over? Did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night

I know it's hard not to get worked up about the attacks and lack of support from a lot of people. I lived it for 4 years with Woz.

I do think there is plenty of support for what is going on and much respect from a lot of people including myself. But yes you will always get a lot of "pissing in the wind", that's all it is.

There always seem to be a group of people that rush to attack anybody and anything willing to help this or any other project.

There are a bunch of petty and short sighted fools that will never get it. It's one thing to be pissed at John and yet another to attack all the people that are trying to make this work and shit all over everything. Nothing wrong with being critical, but we know people understand the stage that this pin is in, they aren't mostly stupid, so it's just a bunch of BS whining.

Let em piss all over themselves, who cares.

That doesn't discount the anger factor here and the well that has been poisoned by SkitB and John.

Like I've said before many times, some people ought to be ashamed of themselves, however, that would require them to not be shameless in the first place.

When we get an announcement that JJP is producing MG and Keith is going to code it then we can get to the next phase, how much, when, etc.

Until then, you are right, it's a lot of "pissing in the wind". Don't let it wear you down.

Here you go Yeti, this pretty much sums it up

NYP is right Yeti, take a break and come tomorrow with a positive attitude and flush the turds down the toilet.

Criticism and hate is all some miserable people are all about. They thrive on other people's misery. Big mouth sad people that are jealous and petty at other people's happiness and success while looking at the negative failures of their own existence.

Hang in there dude!

How many people would consider MG if JJP was producing and Keith was coding?

At at price tag in line with TH?

1600 TH orders so far?

I'll take an MG for the same price over TH all day.

Let's say a rollout like they are planning with Lawlors game. Paying for a game that is ready to ship

Dude, you always crack me up, do you look at everything this way? A handful of others have absolutely zero positive to say or give anybody any F ing credit.

This thread has been going on a long time now and we are about at the end of the road.

Can we at least have a bit of patience to see what is announced or not in the next few weeks.

Then we can all go into crapfest mode.

Good lord, try putting a happy face on. It's not like Al Qaida has taken over pinball for crying out loud

Dude, you always crack me up, do you look at everything this way? A handful of others have absolutely zero positive to say or give anybody any F ing credit.

This thread has been going on a long time now and we are about at the end of the road.

Can we at least have a bit of patience to see what is announced or not in the next few weeks.

Then we can all go into crapfest mode.

Good lord, try putting a happy face on. It's not like Al Qaida has taken over pinball for crying out loud

Gee Greg, I didn't know you cared so much for us poor Jpop dummies!

Why is it just a "theory" that Bill and PDX are trying to help this thing?

You and I both know it's probably dead. How about a little bit of respect for the effort.

These are all good guys. There will be plenty of time to dance all over John's pinball grave.

How about a little patience? June 30th ok with you?

You obviously arent reading it all.

Yes we went through Woz together and somehow came out with a pin.

Like Yeti though, there are too many people that can ruin the entire experience with their nonstop BS.

I wonder if there is one person who up voted Greg on that post that actually has a dime at stake. Doesn't really matter.

It's all the garbage that will drive Bill, Yeti and others like myself from ever trying to do anything pinball related.

Yep, I was considering it with a great group of guys but don't think so now.

Why people can't use a little basic common sense is beyond me.

Does anybody here really think Bill is knocking over the pinball Fort Knox! Come on. He's blown $$$ in an attempt to do something fun. He doesn't need the $$ and why he wants the headache is beyond me.

Pettiness and jealousy are sad traits

Doesn't really matter, this thread has about run its long course now. Especially when you see guys like Yeti get frustrated.

F ing ridiculous

How many times do we have to say it won't be 16k!

It was a noble effort and now it's over.

Everybody happy?

If you think you are getting legal resolution and answers tomorrow think again.

Time to close this thread? Yes or no?

Up vote is a yes

Post away. Contain the damage to this one thread. Good, bad and ugly. Great point

Just need the mods to eject Lowepg . Jk

It will be over soon enough and at least we will have a 15k post documentary to look back on

Move on then. Adios

Seriously, this is making me laugh out loud!

You really can't figure out the profitability of this fiasco at this point. Wow

BS Greg, you implied that Bill has some kind of ulterior motives.

When you think about it. How F ing dumb is that!

I'll see you at the TBL funeral. I'm happy for you that you predicted this but here's mine. Adios TBL

Tell us something you haven't posted 1000 times! Wtf man, you got your refund. Congrats

Can't move on syndrome. Looky Lou?

You have nothing to sue for now right? So this is why it's non stop over and over again?

Give me a M fing break you hypocrite!

Same deal. Good luck getting your TBL by 2020, isn't that what you said? About the same odds given what's already happened with Phil.

I hope you get yours! Hypocrite

Not with Woz dude. You crapped all over that one too for 4 yrs. I'm happy with my predictions.

You guys crap all over Bill, who has a shit ton of $$$, and you believe what you want with TBL and a guy that was taking money from that account to pay himself and finish BOP.

Not a pot to piss in. Good luck with that one

Come on Boo, you can't reason with the one sided know it alls.

Blah, blah, blah mode, here we go.....

Cue up the usual trolls like Lowepg, you, Cheesiv can't be far away, Rai has become one.

You want to keep going all night with the insults Greg let's go back and forth. You are so sincere.

BS, that's all you, Lowepg, Rai and a few other have done. Give me a break dude.

How about having a little decency and patience for F's sake. You guys have already run off Yeti due to the very dickish behaviour.

So don't give me the holier than thou attitude, we all know what it is.

For F's sake, would you spend a dime on this shitfest? Seriously, I really don't know what people don't get about what Bill is trying to do here. Can we stipulate that Bill has spent something? Yes or no. $10 at least?

For the people that have ZERO at stake, how about giving him a break until June 30th?

I get you love pinball jonnyo, but seriously, you guys question something as it is trying to get started and then bury it before it even has a chance.

Can we be clear here, it's over, so all the thrill seeker looky lou's that are grinning from ear to ear can stick a fork in it.

At least give the man a few weeks to make himself clearer. If he does the right thing, he'll pull the plug, then all of you petty jealous types can go back to feeling good about the situation and suing John.

It's hard keeping up with all the garbage that people like you post.

You trolls love to dish it out and can't take it. What a joke.

Keep up the slander Kim, you fit right in.

To be clear, it's Rai, Cheesiv, Lowepg and Mr68 (private Facebook boy), that are 98% of the garbage here.

Pathetically, Kim is the only one that has anything at risk but his FB private board has withered away so now we get him back. Joy

Don't worry, there won't be one. I don't like to eat shit either. Although plenty of others like to watch it from the sidelines, which is a disgrace like Yeti said.

I applaud your pinball involvement, you seem like a really good guy.

I'll quote Yeti again, you are right, its time to move on

After you dropped out you crapped all over Woz and every thread for 4 years. Your opinions. "never get delivered", etc.....such BS!

It is so comforting that you care so much about us Jpop losers though. Thanks. This is called "pissed off posting", nothing drunk about it hypocrite.

And thanks to the rest of the crowd for supporting the anything positive here

I meant to quote Yeti separately

Good luck to everybody

It's time to close this thread down, there is nothing positive left.

Please close it down mods, thanks

Thanks for being the voice of reason as usual Hitch!

Apparently no thread closure possible so I'll just drain it myself like SkitB. Good luck.

Not

Post away.

It's over. Been over for a long time.

Nothing but litigation to sort out.

As for the "thread closure" request it came from a MOD so the focus could go to Bill and Pintasia and more "positive"

I had to make the request to "put it on the record"

I did. And then they decided it wasn't a good idea.

Post to hell freezes over. I don't care. It's over anyhow.

Sad Sack owes me a case of beer now RD!

This i agree with. But I think the 14k comments in this thread as all being worthless might be exaggerating a bit.

I was looking back at a PM thread between you and I about two months ago and the good vibe that was going on then.

Obviously a lot has happened since then.

I didn't "lie" about anything re the "private forum group" being "dead". When I signed up for it and then left it, I did it because I didn't like the "private" nature of it. The secrecy party of the whole thing is what bugged me in the first place. I get why you did it and want to maintain it.

You also did a good thing when you flew to Chicago to find out what the heck was going on a few months ago.

Like you said, this doesn't affect my life one iota! I'm looking forward to the Spooky pin! Yes, i will pre order it if it is what i think it is

You don't know me and I'm sure the insults and derogatory comments in your post were directed at me, it's ok. I'll wish you nothing but good fortune and success in the future. Maybe one day we can have a positive/happy conversation about pinball.

For now I'll grab my popcorn and watch this thing play out. Def not worth getting worked up about again.

Btw, I'd love to hang out and have a beer with any and all of you guys, and laugh about this fiasco one day!

Including Lowepg, I don't let things linger, life's too short, I can holler and scream and then hug it out the next day.

I'm done getting emotional about Jpop, it's OVER.

Where is the Fantasia and Bill thread? That is where the info and action should be.

Well, one of my worst decisions made while drinking and posting on Pinside was sending Jpop $1500 for AIW I think sometime in late 2013 because Greg was making fun of me for my Raza purchase and excitement. I was going to support ole John come hell or high water, yep double down!