(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#23001 2 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

For their first game build, I feel American Pinball did a great job. Far from perfect with many miswired switches and coils, but nothing that can't be corrected with a bit more time and experience building pinball.
Build quality is top notch. Better than some manufacturers that have built many multiples more than AP.
It will be interesting to see what they show at TPF with the newly designed Houdini.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Did AP forget to stick the side rails on on yours? Mine are loose. Don't they have someone in manufacturing?

#23002 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

I get this, but I in no way can say AP has nothing to do with this. They stepped on the burning brown bag on the front porch. Guess what, their shoes are going to smell bad for a long time afterwards. There is no easy way to clean this stench off

They will wipe it all away in Texas with the Houdini.

13
#23003 2 years ago
Quoted from hank527:

I get this, but I in no way can say AP has nothing to do with this. They stepped on the burning brown bag on the front porch. Guess what, their shoes are going to smell bad for a long time afterwards. There is no easy way to clean this stench off

Sorry you feel that way. I do not. I appreciate what they did for MG and am very excited to see what they do with Houdini. My understanding is that they had very little to do with JPOP, especially after what they learned about his version of Houdini. More pinball is better in my opinion.

#23004 2 years ago

I feel positive about AP. They have moved things forward, and achieved an amazing thing IMO, even if MG was the guinea pig in teaching their guys how to manufacture pins

That said, based on the poor manufacturing quality of MG (basics ok like cabinet quality, but they screwed up a lot of the soldering of switches etc, and didn't stick on the side rails), AP will need to demonstrate that Houdini has had a bit more attention to detail...

#23005 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

I feel positive about AP. They have moved things forward, and achieved an amazing thing IMO, even if MG was the guinea pig in teaching their guys how to manufacture pins
That said, based on the poor manufacturing quality of MG (basics ok like cabinet quality, but they screwed up a lot of the soldering of switches etc, and didn't stick on the side rails), AP will need to demonstrate that Houdini has had a bit more attention to detail...

American Pinball did not officially build this machine. JPop did with screwdrivers, tins snips, pliers, and his visionary mind. These machines were assembled by people who would not regularly build a production line pinball machine. Each MG should be treated as a hand built prototype because that's what they really are. The only thing it taught guys was that JPop was the biggest tool in the place. I am surprised some of you don't need tetanus shots from this damn machine.

Wait until TPF to see a REAL A.P. built pinball.

#23006 2 years ago

I believe its important that people realize that AP was duped by Jpop by his not revealing an enforceable contract agreement to another company. That's what screwed up everything here.

I want to see American Pinball be successful despite Jpop's reckless and desperate ways.

#23007 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

American Pinball did not officially build this machine. JPop did with screwdrivers, tins snips, pliers, and his visionary mind. These machines were assembled by people who would not regularly build a production line pinball machine. Each MG should be treated as a hand built prototype because that's what they really are. The only thing it taught guys was that JPop was the biggest tool in the place. I am surprised some of you don't need tetanus shots from this damn machine.
Wait until TPF to see a REAL A.P. built pinball.

That's a bingo. Well stated my friend.

#23008 2 years ago

I would hope that AP took a ton of notes during this whole ordeal. It certainly wasn't free, but there were a lot of lessons they could have learned and the feedback doesn't really come back directly at them.

#23009 2 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

I agree in principle and will never associate with AP in any way. They basically took what little cash was remaining from AIW and RAZA

Quoted from hank527:

I get this, but I in no way can say AP has nothing to do with this. They stepped on the burning brown bag on the front porch. Guess what, their shoes are going to smell bad for a long time afterwards. There is no easy way to clean this stench off

I can't form any meaningful opinion, and I don't think anybody can off of mere speculation. Nobody here knows the exact details of the deal or arrangement AP had with JPOP, other than AP making some press releases prematurely about completing the games everybody got screwed on. They were probably just excited to share good news, to give those people hope, and already had Houdini in the works on their own dime.

AP in no way pocketed any of the money JPOP took from investors on RAZA and AIW. That money was exhausted and squandered away by JPOP long before AP's involvement...for the 5 years JPOP sat doodling selfies, designing nonsensical playfields, and paying himself a decent salary for coloring in coloring books all day. And a good portion probably went to JPOP's attorneys...they are not free.

And once AP saw JPOP's true colors for themselves, they ended the relationshit (courtesy Dane Cook), and quickly. The guy in Canada that invested and tried to crawl into bed with JPOP to deliver the MG's, RAZA's and AIW's quickly realized he was in over his head or what he was in for, and jumped out faster than the Flash. Several people have said above that JPOP shipped the MG's out, and it had absolutely nothing to do with AP.

The way I look at it, if AP was involved at all even behind the curtain, hundreds of people were screwed over by JPOP and at least now AP made that number 19 less (even though MG isn't complete, people that invested got something). And for all I know, they weren't even involved at all. They tried to take it on like other investors have, but quickly jumped out just as the others had. Given that, and the fact that they booted JPOP, I don't know how they would owe RAZA and AIW investors anything for their brief attempt to have an affiliation with JPOP. They didn't scam anybody out of money...HE DID. I can't blame them for hoping they could maybe make it right, although it didn't work out.

-5
#23010 2 years ago

MG #8 FS $50k. NIB.

13
#23011 2 years ago

I read the past 14 days of posts which was exhausting. My take away, based on the game I helped assemble (pictures in this post), is that most things changed very little from the summer of 2015. That NW show game v. the prototype and production pictures posted by someone earlier show changes in several mechs, like the lion saw, the psuedo-spirit-ring in the circle ramp. The saw was to have a motor (I see from AJ and others it was never motorized), the 3 flasher bulb assemblies on each side at the top are missing. I did see many of Applejuice screens from activating switches as John did walk us through many of the switches/mechs for which there was code for but dropped from the design. The settings menu , sounds and video were great. See AJ posts above for the links to webpage of features, etc.

These pics are from my phone of the game pdx (mostly) and I (some) assembled right up until we loaded it the van for PDX to drive it Chicago to the NW show. I don't have the other pics from the proto or games delivered (other than those in this thread), but it might be interesting to see comparisons.

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#23012 2 years ago

Side note to the above pics, I don't think they ever actually produced playfields with that coloring?
The above is actually just some printed mylar laid over the whitewood (which is evident when you watch the videos from that Northwest show)

Even the Prototypes, from Chris' photos show the proto playfield as having colored inserts for the MAGIC lettering but still wood coloring around it (as opposed to the purple shown above on the mylar overlay).

#23013 2 years ago

I'm glad to see that at least the owl was facing the correct way... He must have still felt optimistic at that point.

Quoted from fattrain:

Side note to the above pics, I don't think they ever actually produced playfields with that coloring?
The above is actually just some printed mylar laid over the whitewood (which is evident when you watch the videos from that Northwest show)
Even the Prototypes, from Chris' photos show the proto playfield as having colored inserts for the MAGIC lettering but still wood coloring around it (as opposed to the purple shown above on the mylar overlay).

16
#23014 2 years ago

Martin reviewed MG for 6 hours today for PN

Pinball News gameplay video is up:

#23015 2 years ago

Ahhhhh...what might have been!!

#23016 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Martin reviewed MG for 6 hours today for PN
Pinball News gameplay video is up:
» YouTube video

That was a skilled player at those flippers, I assume it was Martin himself. Great guy, great ambassador to pinball and currently ranked 51st in the world.

https://www.ifpapinball.com/rankings/overall.php

Thanks for posting and giving Martin access to your machine.

#23017 2 years ago

Wow, is there no working mulitball or anything? 10 minutes of loop and spinner shots with pretty much nothing happening. The upper right part of the playfield might as well not exist, the ball doesn't go there. Blech.

#23018 2 years ago

The lighting and music is well done and the call outs are nicely placed. Hope somehow you can get all of the mechs working. The upper playfield will be way more fun if the ball can stay up there and do something besides immediately zip along the ramp back to the return. It might require some fabrications, but it would worth it.

It's a bummer you can't see 1/2 of the screen with all of the plastic pieces in front. Can you use a shorter LCD panel in 16x9 to show the entire screen? There are some beautiful images, I especially like the start bursts over the images, so creative.

Nice to see another glimpse of gameplay, hopefully Martin has a nice write up to go along with the video.

All in all, very excited for you to have your game. Enjoy!

#23019 2 years ago
Quoted from TOK:

Wow, is there no working mulitball or anything? 10 minutes of loop and spinner shots with pretty much nothing happening. The upper right part of the playfield might as well not exist, the ball doesn't go there. Blech.

Yep. Exactly what I was thinking. And what was with that target to the right of the spinner? Didn't it seem like it totally should have been a ramp shot?

Damn. 10 minutes, no multiball, no modes started. But cool music, call outs and lights.

Has there ever been a pin so incomplete?!? Anyone saying WOF is a POS should consider this JPOP gem.

Oh, my disappointment is tangible.

#23020 2 years ago

Deleted stupid joke.

#23021 2 years ago

Wonder if whoever he got to do the music and callouts also got ripped off and never paid?

#23022 2 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

.......Oh, my disappointment is tangible.

Unless you sell it for $30k+

#23023 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Martin reviewed MG for 6 hours today for PN
Pinball News gameplay video is up:
» YouTube video

Exhilarating.

#23024 2 years ago

What a total waste at this point.... im really glad people got something but anyone who buys these for big money is just throwing money in the toilet imo. Game plays but not much at all there and its just a shame as i think it cld of been pretty awesome.

#23025 2 years ago

Why not?

#23026 2 years ago

I've seen EMs with better rules.

#23027 2 years ago

Thanks for the video.

Sounded great (audio/music/callouts). Looked good. Seems the shots just go "clank" though... esp. the shot directly to the right of center where the blue lightning bolt (?) lane is. Not the fault of the player, to be sure. The left loop seems to flow nicely. There were a few ramps made, but they were anything but smooth (again not the fault of the player).

I think the others have it when they say that even with all of that nothing seems to have started--the music indicated the same mode the entire time (both games). If modes were changing IMO the music should change with them to give more of the mode "experience," but it almost seemed like nothing could start any mode-- a few switches seemed active... and they triggered callouts and some scores but it seemed about as linear as it could get. The "story" of the game didn't emerge... it's basically just hit something and hear a noise and see some score added.

I'm confident applejuice wrote appropriate code (or the code he was asked to write)... but it's almost like there's a game still missing in there. Hardware/software integration seems like a failure based on this video.

#23028 2 years ago

Can I ask what is in the back behind the center spinner? It seems like every shot through the spinner just dribbles back down again.. very unsatisfying.

Some targets? Just a big lane guide blocking the ball?

#23029 2 years ago

not much going on with the display, which I guess make sense since you can't see it. You get that nice art, but it is basically static images as backgrounds and then the info is displayed in the box which is the same size and form factor of a traditional DMD. Using flash was an odd and questionable choice and the results bare that out. Looks most, if not all, of the dynamic info is only in the 'small display overlay'.

Shots seems limited and repetitive. As others have said most shots seem to go no where or do much. So many 'toys' and none seem to do much.

Just goes to prove you can't just throw a ton of stuff (most of it recycled from other games). on a playfield and think it will be a good game.

Sad thing is there are home-brew games that were done in less time and are superior.

#23030 2 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Sad thing is there are home-brew games that were done in less time and are superior.

Agreed. I watched the twitch stream of Total Annihilation and it was freaking fantastic. It is already light years better than Magic Girl and TA doesn't even have art on it.

#23031 2 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

not much going on with the display, which I guess make sense since you can't see it. You get that nice art, but it is basically static images as backgrounds and then the info is displayed in the box which is the same size and form factor of a traditional DMD. Using flash was an odd and questionable choice and the results bare that out. Looks most, if not all, of the dynamic info is only in the 'small display overlay'.
Shots seems limited and repetitive. As others have said most shots seem to go no where or do much. So many 'toys' and none seem to do much.
Just goes to prove you can't just throw a ton of stuff (most of it recycled from other games). on a playfield and think it will be a good game.
Sad thing is there are home-brew games that were done in less time and are superior.

Yeah but you are judging this as if it's an actual game rather than something that appears to be, at most, 25 percent finished, from design, mechanics, sound, rules, animations...it's an impossible game "review" and I eagerly await the inevitable 10,000 word Pinball News review of this thing. How in the hell are they gonna come up with more than a paragraph?

It's Pinball News. They will find a way.

#23032 2 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Agreed. I watched the twitch stream of Total Annihilation and it was freaking fantastic. It is already light years better than Magic Girl and TA doesn't even have art on it.

yeah it's interesting to see in the TA thread people debating what it "should" cost with prices as low as $2500, but the reality is it is a much more polished and playable (and FUN) game than MG will ever be.

#23033 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Yeah but you are judging this as if it's an actual game rather than something that appears to be, at most, 25 percent finished, from design, mechanics, sound, rules, animations

It's sad that Zombie Yeti was never paid fully, and never received his machine that was part of his deal, because if you removed his artwork (with acknowledgement to mandraws contributions as well), you don't have much left. For the prices that are being kicked around, it doesn't really make sense.

#23034 2 years ago

You have a machine with people asking between $25 and $50k. I'm sure SOMEBODY will pump a few thousand more into it and get it to play right.....

#23035 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

You have a machine with people asking between $25 and $50k. I'm sure SOMEBODY will pump a few thousand more into it and get it to play right.....

I would expect that to happen with Special K's machine.

I also think the pump and dump with these prices might be hitting a brick wall

#23036 2 years ago

I just don't know how these are going to get finished.

Problems:
1) You have to have access to a machine that someone is willing to have 'the closer' to crawl all over their precious pinball artifact.

2) you have to have someone with electrical and software skills that has 1-3 months spare time on their hands to go visit said machine, aka 'the closer'. This could be conservative as some of these things may never work but take a long time to come to that conclusion.

3) unless 'the closer' is retired, will probably want to get paid. These kinds of skills are worth $100/hr -$150/hr. So $16k- $50k ish on the low side... Without "for the love of pinball's discounts"*. Plus 'the closer' needs access to the source code which may or may not be included with the game and applejuice would have to volunteer it if he is not 'the closer'. *FLOP Discounts may not apply because the person doesn't get their own game out of the project.

4) this fixes one game. Given we see that each game might be a tad different, 'the closer' may have to travel and be paid to troubleshoot any that want to be fixed.

This seems less likely to happen and more wishful thinking in my opinion anyway.

#23037 2 years ago

I'm hoping Applejuice is the closer if he gets a loner game. he has the hardware and software experience to make this machine better.

Quoted from sd_tom:

I just don't know how these are going to get finished.
Problems:
1) You have to have access to a machine that someone is willing to have 'the closer' to crawl all over their precious pinball artifact.
2) you have to have someone with electrical and software skills that has 1-3 months spare time on their hands to go visit said machine, aka 'the closer'. This could be conservative as some of these things may never work but take a long time to come to that conclusion.
3) unless 'the closer' is retired or unemployed, will probably want to get paid. These kinds of skills are worth $100/hr -$150/hr. So $16k- $50k ish on the low side... Without "for the love of pinball's discounts"*. Plus 'the closer' needs access to the source code which may or may not be included with the game and applejuice would have to volunteer it if he is not 'the closer'. *FLOP Discounts may not apply because the person doesn't get their own game out of the project.
4) this fixes one game. Given we see that each game might be a tad different, 'the closer' may have to travel and be paid to troubleshoot any that want to be fixed.
This seems less likely to happen and more wishful thinking in my opinion anyway.

#23038 2 years ago

I don't think he's looking for a loner game. I think he wants his own MG, which is perfectly understandable. That is what was promised from JPOP and not delivered.

#23039 2 years ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

I'm hoping Applejuice is the closer if he gets a loner game. he has the hardware and software experience to make this machine better.

My read is that he wants his 11k back-pay and a machine.. which I agree with 100%. I can see someone coughing up $11k, but who's going to cough up a machine? And, if the project is more than 2-3 weeks, like he said from the beginning.. this is his livelihood - if it's a real effort to finish, he's still going to want to be paid going forward (forgive me if i'm putting words in your mouth applejuice)

#23040 2 years ago

See post 22441

Quoted from sd_tom:

My read is that he wants his 11k back-pay and a machine.. which I agree with 100%. I can see someone coughing up $11k, but who's going to cough up a machine? And, if the project is more than 2-3 weeks, like he said from the beginning.. this is his livelihood - if it's a real effort to finish, he's still going to want to be paid going forward (forgive me if i'm putting words in your mouth applejuice)

#23041 2 years ago

Link to that post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6%e2%80%a6mg-raza-and-aiw%e2%80%a6/page/449#post-3622521

So there's a loaner game and a non specific offer to pay the bills. Applejuice seems to specifically want his OWN game, as promised to him.

#23042 2 years ago

The future resale value of these will crash at some point. Better strike while the irons hot because I think time might be running out.

#23043 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

The future resale value of these will crash at some point. Better strike while the irons hot because I think time might be running out.

Why....you looking for one....

#23044 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Why....you looking for one....

God no.

#23045 2 years ago

Magic Girl 'First Look Review' is up at PN. Amazing that Martin only reviewed it yesterday

http://www.pinballnews.com/games/magicgirl/index3.html

The full review will follow later...

16
#23046 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

You have a machine with people asking between $25 and $50k. I'm sure SOMEBODY will pump a few thousand more into it and get it to play right.....

I don't care about the resale value as I'm not selling, but I will be pumping some more money into this to get the machine working better. I do think it has great potential.

The first step in doing this is to understand EXACTLY what is missing from the machine, and what it is potentially capable of. Then we mod the software and hardware accordingly. It will happen, and may not take too long either

Even now, I'm able to play MG without ball hangups (we sorted out the plunger and Tesla gate issues), so am getting happier by the day, heh.

#23047 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

It will happen, and may not take too long either

I can't wait to see what you do with it...

#23048 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Magic Girl 'First Look Review' is up at PN. Amazing that Martin only reviewed it yesterday
http://www.pinballnews.com/games/magicgirl/index3.html
The full review will follow later...

No offense but this needs a "full review"? Why not "you bang the ball around but nothing does (or even can) happen"?

Done.

Happy for you that you got your machine though - heck even a couple months ago I was certain all that money had burned up into magic smoke. Color me...gobsmacked. (always wanted to use that word)

#23049 2 years ago

Definitely needs a full review as is complicated. A fair bit happens now (under-PF magnets etc), and hardware is in place (e.g. magnaflip stuff) that just needs software update to activate. Never mind the hardware mods to come.

Let's wait for the full review. The first step to solving a problem is to fully define & understand the problem

#23050 2 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

No offense but this needs a "full review"? Why not "you bang the ball around but nothing does (or even can) happen"?
Done.
Happy for you that you got your machine though - heck even a couple months ago I was certain all that money had burned up into magic smoke. Color me...gobsmacked. (always wanted to use that word)

As incomplete as it is, it's a bit disrespectful to applejuice - he put in so much work, you can see it shine in spots.
The full review should help point out the missing bits and help them patch it up.

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