Alice in Wonderland
Gottlieb, 1948
Houdini
American Pinball, 2017
Magic Girl
Zidware Pinball USA, 2017
Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland
Zidware Pinball USA, 2012Quoted from iceman44:If Jpop came out right now and said I'm going to sell 20 of the zombie chick bowling pins and asked for a $10k deposit and a $17k price tag, how many people do you think would sign up?
Dear lord, I hope the answer to that is zero.
Quoted from Pinballs:If Jpop is going to make more pins, I think it should be RAZA, because it's angry RAZA customers who are about to force Jpop into bankruptcy proceedings, any moment now. Indeed, Jpop might want to make an announcement...
He says he will make RAZA next, and IMO this would be a good thing, as it's the only way Jpop might dig himself out of this mess. Regardless of the other problems, Jpop is a great, quirky designer, with a history of some great games, and this is a draw for customers. It was for me and many others back in 2011.
The other reason making RAZA would be good is because IMO it's the only way people will get their money back.
Just some thoughts..
It would be easier and better for me if Jpop were to make RAZA. Trust me, I want to believe. But I just can't imagine lighting will strike in the same spot. This notion of another angel investor blindly buying in, I find far-fetch. Just my opinion.
That said, if he does make them, I'll pick up my box of lights and flip it on Pinside the next day for top dollar.
I don't want the damn thing.
Quoted from iceman44:I understand what you are saying. However, he now has a track record of people wanting to buy his limited edition pins, no matter how bad state of affairs is, for $30k plus.
That's what all the jumping up and down and hollering is about and why so many people think its justified due to the "collectibility", "limited" etc.. Thus, some mega wealthy dude might jump in and do it for fun, considering there is a market established for his shit. That's not that hard to figure out.
I'm sure his camp is working hard on exploiting that. Wouldn't you?
If Jpop came out right now and said I'm going to sell 20 of the zombie chick bowling pins and asked for a $10k deposit and a $17k price tag, how many people do you think would sign up?
Gonna buy MG for $30k and not Zombie bowling for $17k to have another "piece of history"? I wouldn't, nor would many but like so many of you guys keep saying, there are plenty of "collectors" that would. The evidence is in.
I don't think the evidence is in....one sold to the podcast guy for 23k. How many others have sold? I don't believe any others have sold...now has there been a couple on Craigslist, EBay, and here listed for ridiculous prices, sure, but have any sold? I think there is a bit of demand right now but closer to the 20k price range for actual sales...we will see I guess. I think the demand is more speculation then anything else. I would say some think they might make a profit if they can get one now and flip it for more rather then actually wanting the game to play.
Quoted from TOK:Regardless of how much money someone makes, very few people want to squander it.
Except in pinball, of course. Othewise there wouldn't be so many pre-orders!
Quoted from lllvjr:He got lucky with ap.. luck will not strike twice.. raza will never get done... and no one will give him money again. No one had to give him more money for mg to get done like they will on raza... anyway I don't want to keep beating this drum. U will keep doing it
Why do you guys keep beating this drum? Because for the life of me i can't figure out how some of you are so sure that you'll never see John again. You are the ones definitively declaring Jpop dead and gone as if you have some sort of crystal ball.
"No one had to give him more money for MG to get done"? What do you think the Bill Brandes $$$ was? So AP didn't invest a dime then? What are you talking about. 
If they're worth $20-30 (to 40?)K now, what would they be worth if they'd been delivered as promised: complete, working and "Making Pinball great again"(!)?
The mind boggles.
In this case, it's the story behind the game driving the collectability. Which is warped.
Quoted from benheck:Wanted: Rich person who doesn't have internet access or a grasp of physics. Must love colors and clowns. Call JPOP at 1-800-MONEY-PIT
Billy B. first (very smart guy). AP second (very smart group). Who's next? Jpop to investor, "I'll turn a $17k investment into $30K". "Plenty of collector money pits out there".
Some guys here are taking WAY too much for granted, many people are so stupid with their $$$. I see total shit deals at least once a week, limited partnerships, usually designed to fleece rich doctors. There are a TON of absolutely clueless wealthy people. Just because they make a lot of $$$, most have no idea what to do with it afterwards.
I have one guy, multi millionaire, inherited $$, great guy but not the sharpest tool, would write John a check for $1 million if he met him just to help him, lives on 1000 acres and in a trailer. Then you have the uninformed doctor crew (financially) and that group is endless.
I get it though, some people that have cashed in on Jpop want it over now.
I'm gonna self impose at least a 30 day thread ban. You guys PM me if you figure it all out in the meantime 
I noticed someone bought a prototype magic girl. What's the difference between prototype and the 19 others? I assume he specifically wanted the prototype for some reason.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:I noticed someone bought a prototype magic girl. What's the difference between prototype and the 19 others?
About $50,000
Attention believers. I am selling my RAZA spot. Much less expensive than a BM66SLE with great upside potential.
Quoted from Mr68:Attention believers. I am selling my RAZA spot. Much less than a BM66LE with great upside potential.
So you decided you like the game play of Batman better?
Quoted from Mr68:It would be easier and better for me if Jpop were to make RAZA. Trust me, I want to believe. But I just can't imagine lighting will strike in the same spot. This notion of another angel investor blindly buying in, I find far-fetch. Just my opinion.
That said, if he does make them, I'll pick up my box of lights and flip it on Pinside the next day for top dollar.
I don't want the damn thing.
This I don't understand. Wouldn't you be damn curious to play the machine (and for 10 hours)? 
The money I don't care about so much.
Quoted from Pinballs:This I don't understand. Wouldn't you be damn curious to play the machine (and for 10 hours)?
The money I don't care about so much.
Great question. I don't want the damn thing and I want the Popadiuk Experience over.
I understand the Jpop end desire
I want to play MG to death, even though opening the box today cost me vs selling it off 'unopened'. But I confess that in my life I've been really bad by opening every box! And thankfully I don't GAF about money anymore. But that doesn't mean I'm an Iceman money idiot
Quoted from lpeters82:What would you pay for a Magic Girl?
That's a tough question. If it was a full production game (not limited) but going out in it's current condition I wouldn't buy one at all.
As is? Personally I think it's worth about 5k. Limited does not mean valuable (to me). But....I'm not a "collector" or "speculator". I'm a "hobbyist/player". I would never buy a BBB or King Kong or even a BM66LE (or any "LE" for that matter). I'm not in this to try and make money down the road....I just like the people (most) and like to play.
I read all of this and am.invested in RAZA. I can say I do hold AP accountable for associating with JPoop and will not be buying any of the games they sell unless they do something for us RAZA owners.
I'm sorry but that's how I see it. Jpoop is toxic and they got in bed with him. They helped make MG owners whole. So with me being in on RAZA, they are on my S list.
I think Houdini looks good, but this toxic start makes them destined to fail.
Quoted from toyotaboy:They did get a LOT of attention quick, can't deny that. However, if they simply hired Balcer (or any existing pinball designer other than JPOP) from the get-go, I think they'd have nearly the same attention but be 9 months ahead of the game. Unlike other startups out of basements, AP actually has financial backing.
Disagree. This whole fiasco put AP in the conversation, they had to correct course, but by God, the at least put out MG. I think they have a modicum of respect for that.l are at least a house hold name on pinside, as opposed to just another company trying to build pinball machines.
Want to play magic girl? Find a TOM, start the game, and close your eyes.
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:Want to play magic girl? Find a TOM, start the game, and close your eyes.
I don't know man. Last ToM I played really worked.
I'd like to see Riot Pinballs AIW with Scott Gullicks artwork.
Quoted from JoeinNJ:Time to take a break from all the MG talk, who'd like to see AIW a Riot Pinball design(not to drag Riot into a JPop conversation)with Zombie Yeti's AIW art work?
Quoted from luvthatapex2:I'd like to see Riot Pinballs AIW with Scott Gullicks artwork.
So is that Scott Gullicks work on the playfield? If so I'd be into seeing what his plans were for the art package.
I just picked up a Stellar Wars! (just now)! Damn those things are heavy! Up a flight of stairs SIDEWAYS because it wouldn't fit through the door! Guy bought it over 30 years ago and it hasn't been played for 10 years. I just thought you all should know. 
Quoted from spfxted:I just picked up a Stellar Wars! (just now)! Damn those things are heavy! Up a flight of stairs SIDEWAYS because it wouldn't fit through the door! Guy bought it over 30 years ago and it hasn't been played for 10 years. I just thought you all should know.
Ironically, you'll have a lot more fun with that <$1000 machine as the rich fellas will have staring at their expensive Magic Girl boxes.
rd
Take a break from Pinside for say, a year. Come back, and this will still be page one. SUCKS. It would be so much better if I was just a spectator.
Do the math someone. JPop delivers MG - so for the sake of argument ONLY - let's take that off the table for settlement $$. That means there is a pretty strong argument to be made for refunding the lawsuit participants for RAZA and/or AIW. That could raise a very strong argument that would question damages and maybe even further standing. It could end the lawsuit immediately.
My point being - it might be far cheaper now for JPop to issue refunds to end the lawsuits, there are only 29 or so participants so it won't be that much cash. I know some in the lawsuit are only owed <$5,000, maybe way less. Nowhere near the total anyway. Then he could resell those spots in the wake of this new high. Hell, he could even reverse the order. Fool a bunch of new pinheads into preorders, use that cash to buy off lawsuit, then he has another (number of years) to do same thing again.
What am I missing?
I'm half paid on RAZA. I'll gladly sell my spot for a fraction of what I paid. Anyone interested please pm me.
Thinking of selling for 30 percent less than what I have in it.
Quoted from hank527:I'm half paid on RAZA. I'll gladly sell my spot for a fraction of what I paid. Anyone interested please pm me.
Thinking of selling for 30 percent less than what I have in it.
You are not the only one... https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-retro-atomic-zombie-adventureland-1
Quoted from rommy:Take a break from Pinside for say, a year. Come back, and this will still be page one. SUCKS. It would be so much better if I was just a spectator.
Do the math someone. JPop delivers MG - so for the sake of argument ONLY - let's take that off the table for settlement $$. That means there is a pretty strong argument to be made for refunding the lawsuit participants for RAZA and/or AIW. That could raise a very strong argument that would question damages and maybe even further standing. It could end the lawsuit immediately.
My point being - it might be far cheaper now for JPop to issue refunds to end the lawsuits, there are only 29 or so participants so it won't be that much cash. I know some in the lawsuit are only owed <$5,000, maybe way less. Nowhere near the total anyway. Then he could resell those spots in the wake of this new high. Hell, he could even reverse the order. Fool a bunch of new pinheads into preorders, use that cash to buy off lawsuit, then he has another (number of years) to do same thing again.
What am I missing?
I had this same thought and agree with a slightly different take. I don't know Jpop's personal situation but he could restructure assets and pull money out. He owns a home and I seem to recall at least one rental property. I'm speculating he could refinance his real estate, pull out cash and refund the money. Tap his wife's 401 or borrow family money. Then as you suggest, sell those spots again. Lawsuit goes away and he begins anew.
Without hard numbers, I agree. With MG delivered he could be within easy striking distance of curing his debt to everyone and padding his wallet. What might he owe at this point? A quarter of a million, half, three quarters of a million? That's chump change in today's environment.
And here's the kicker. Jpop only need pay off those 11 people that are presently suing him. Whats that, less than 50K? Easy money to raise.
Quoted from spfxted:I just picked up a Stellar Wars! (just now)! Damn those things are heavy! Up a flight of stairs SIDEWAYS because it wouldn't fit through the door! Guy bought it over 30 years ago and it hasn't been played for 10 years. I just thought you all should know.
OK, you made your point as subtlely as always...Ill be over tomorrow to put it together and fix it
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:Get those batteries outta there pronto dude
Oh, I did! Thanks! Those are brand new batteries. The boards look brand new. I don't think the guy ever had the backglass off!
...and YES..this is better than talking about that damn Magic Girl all the time! 
Quoted from Mr68:I had this same thought and agree with a slightly different take. I don't know Jpop's personal situation but he could restructure assets and pull money out. He owns a home and I seem to recall at least one rental property. I'm speculating he could refinance his real estate, pull out cash and refund the money. Tap his wife's 401 or borrow family money. Then as you suggest, sell those spots again. Lawsuit goes away and he begins anew.
Without hard numbers, I agree. With MG delivered he could be within striking distance of curing his debt to everyone and getting some breathing room. What might he owe at this point? A quarter of a million, half, three quarters of a million? That's chump change in today's environment.
And here's the kicker. Jpop only need pay off those 11 people that are presently suing him. Whats that, less than 50K? Easy money to raise.
I think this is an excellent strategy. Jpop needs to do this, and do it quick before the bankruptcy filing kicks off.
Quoted from Mr68:I had this same thought and agree with a slightly different take. I don't know Jpop's personal situation but he could restructure assets and pull money out. He owns a home and I seem to recall at least one rental property. I'm speculating he could refinance his real estate, pull out cash and refund the money. Tap his wife's 401 or borrow family money. Then as you suggest, sell those spots again. Lawsuit goes away and he begins anew.
Without hard numbers, I agree. With MG delivered he could be within striking distance of curing his debt to everyone and getting some breathing room. What might he owe at this point? A quarter of a million, half, three quarters of a million? That's chump change in today's environment.
And here's the kicker. Jpop only need pay off those 11 people that are presently suing him. Whats that, less than 50K? Easy money to raise.
I thought there were something like 21 of us in the group lawsuit against JPOP, did some drop out?
Sorry to even ask!!! I followed this for some time but with so many post it's hard to find every thing. Would someone care to give me a rough run down of approx how many people got screwed on mg? Out of the games he did release are there people who put a deposit down and still not offered a pin? Again sorry to ask just want to be in the knowing.
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:Sorry to even ask!!! I followed this for some time but with so many post it's hard to find every thing. Would someone care to give me a rough run down of approx how many people got screwed on mg? Out of the games he did release are there people who put a deposit down and still not offered a pin? Again sorry to ask just want to be in the knowing.
It appears that everyone who PAID for a MG got it. There are claims of being owed MG's in trade for programming, artwork, and general douchebaggery on JPop's part.
Quoted from Concretehardt:I thought there were something like 21 of us in the group lawsuit against JPOP, did some drop out?
I only see eleven people on legal documents. Many people have sold their spots over the years including before and during the Pintasia attempt.
Quoted from rommy:Plus, and I mean I don't know this, but anyone in the lawsuit who only ordered MG, their grounds are disappearing. There may be no one like that though.
Still curious on how the lawsuits goes forward with the potential conflict of intrest of those suing who have received their games.
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