(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#22551 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

As an employee or contracted designer, maybe. No one will ever want to be a partner with that cuckoo bird again.

JPop hasn't treated his employees or contractors so well either ...

#22552 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If he built them on his own he could build another 30. That will be an option for the bankruptcy judge to consider

What bankruptcy?

#22553 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Who would pay to make them though? AP apparently ate the bill/cost on the 19, doubt they would eat the cost on building any more. They got nothing from JPop in the end, he's of no value to AP.

I'm saying you have to squeeze Jpop. He's got a house, nice cars, 401k's etc.

Either figure out a way to make it right OR Zidware will be forced to go bankrupt and then we are looking at the civil case anyhow.

Can't let him float around fiddling and doodling. And he doesn't get to have credit for delivering MG when he was warned not to. "Preferential payments".

#22554 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

What bankruptcy?

The "involuntary" petition that is going to get filed to force him into liquidation and/or dealing with the "preferential payments". Does Zidware have the ability to complete Raza and AIW? Apparently not.

He should have had a plan to deal with everybody, not just a select few. That's on him.

#22555 2 years ago

Whatever is sitting in Zidware, IP rights, patents, etc. is going to have to go to satisfying the rest of Zidware customers.

-1
#22556 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

"Preferential payments".

Never. No way in hell that would stand up in court. People got what they paid for in MG, a pinball machine. Please explain exactly what is preferential about that?

#22557 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The "involuntary" petition that is going to get filed to force him into liquidation and/or dealing with the "preferential payments". Does Zidware have the ability to complete Raza and AIW? Apparently not.
He should have had a plan to deal with everybody, not just a select few. That's on him.

The involuntary petition should have been filed a long time ago. With MG's going into owners hands already, seems there have been some missed opportunities to grab onto some of the assets. It will be more difficult at this stage.

#22558 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Never. No way in hell that would stand up in court. People got what they paid for in MG, a pinball machine. Please explain exactly what is preferential about that?

I'm not going to run through the bankruptcy laws again. Are you kidding me? Are you an attorney? Pay attention and learn something.

If the current lawyer isn't doing something about it, and I suspect he is, then another petition will have to be filed.

#22559 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

The involuntary petition should have been filed a long time ago. With MG's going into owners hands already, seems there have been some missed opportunities to grab onto some of the assets. It will be more difficult at this stage.

Of course it should have been filed earlier, except that now we know what the facts are, that MG's were actually being built by Zidware, which was made clear by AP. Did AP loan any money? What was the quid pro quo?

I don't know why Zane didn't do more in the first place, he should have. I assume that is exactly the direction he's heading in though, haven't talked to him yet.

16
#22560 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Did AP loan any money? What was the quid pro quo?

Just a guess from me, I think the value AP expected to get from JPop for making the games didn't happen (he didn't live up to whatever the reps were on Houdini or anything else).

That said, AP was in a snare. They made representations to the community that MG would be made and delivered. So they swallowed hard and deep and made them. They probably viewed it as a good opportunity to do a small batch trial run for their own original game coming next.

My guess is they learned a lot making those 19/21 games that will help them moving forward, but instantly distanced themselves from JPop when they realized he could not bring the value they thought he could last year.

Again, I have no insight or sources, I'm just guessing.

#22561 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

My guess is they learned a lot making those 19/21 games that will help them moving forward, but instantly distanced themselves from JPop when they realized he could not bring the value they thought he could last year.
Again, I have no insight or sources, I'm just guessing.

I'd say that's a very good guess.

#22562 2 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

How many Baywatches are there out there?

Two here.

-1
#22563 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm not going to run through the bankruptcy laws again. Are you kidding me? Are you an attorney? Pay attention and learn something.
If the current lawyer isn't doing something about it, and I suspect he is, then another petition will have to be filed.

There is NO BANKRUPTCY right now and I do not have to be an attorney to know that. However, you still did not give me an example of JPops preferential payout, bankruptcy rules aside. I have been paying attention and if you expect me to learn something about bankruptcy through your wild rants and wanting to mold the bankruptcy laws to how you see fit, then you would be mistaken. A judge will decide by the bankruptcy rules and laws that apply. Just because you petition for involuntary doesn't mean you will get it. And you can use that petition like a roll of Charmin if any Judge is convinced otherwise by JPop and/or his attorney.

#22564 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

There is NO BANKRUPTCY right now and I do not have to be an attorney to know that. However, you still did not give me an example of JPops preferential payout, bankruptcy rules aside. I have been paying attention and if you expect me to learn something about bankruptcy through your wild rants and wanting to mold the bankruptcy laws to how you see fit, then you would be mistaken. A judge will decide by the bankruptcy rules and laws that apply. Just because you petition for involuntary doesn't mean you will get it. And you can use that petition like a roll of Charmin if any Judge is convinced otherwise by JPop and/or his attorney.

That being said....I have a feeling that JPop may beat you all to the punch and file for BK protection personally.

#22565 2 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

Well, then a rich oil tycoon should buy up all of the remaining Baywatch pins and throw them off a roof, only keeping the top...

Although there is a bit of irony, this idea of the elimination experiment has been tried in other markets, even by other manufacturers to prevent competition of products. This method of producing artificial scarcity generally does not work for a number of reasons.

One reason for this hobby is if the game was not highly desirable before things do not magically change overnight.
It simply does not work that way. It takes time.

Older collectors do not jump on the band wagon because they already see what is happening, savvy in the market, and don't buy into the false hype.
They know better.
New collectors might though.

Additionally, it requires some form of material marketing/exposure to drive interest up, and this requires additional extra cost.

This method is essentially a huge dice roll against something people never really cared about in the first place.
Pinball is not a mainstream device in the modern world, and most never be again, so it's hard to see the validity.

Some pinball games that were sleepers took decades before anyone outside of hardcore enthusiasts even knew what they were in the first place.

I can list dozens of games that fall into this last point that were made in the past 40 years.
Some more notable titles of today people can recognize from the late model SS era are games such Congo, DH, I500, Shadow, and JD.
System 11 or 6803 MPU games from the late 80s such as Atlantis, Transporter, Party Zone, Millionaire or Dr Dude were never "beloved" until after the resurgence in the 90s.
Early Bally games were nearly completely forgotten (with several exceptions) until the price spiking in the early 2000s.
Earlier titles would include many Gottlieb wedge heads of the 1960s, couple with transition to the SS era, and there were hundreds left over.

Hoarding of game titles is best left to dealers to manage potential inventory stock, not enthusiast turned into price speculation gamblers.
For every "bonanza title" there are a more than a half a dozen that never take off.
If an enthusiast wants to get into the used pinball machine business today, good luck, you have a lot of competition, and dealers are not going to be friendly if you do not know them.
Some will talk sideways out of the mouths stating they would never sell a game "unrestored" to an owner, which is untrue.
But, remember, they have to make a profit somehow.

The current drive of barcades and pinball will reverse in the next five years in conjunction with loss of boutique manufacturers.
This further results in conjoined lost sales income from new buyers who also lose interest simultaneously.
The process goes in cycles.
It's about time for the nostalgic cycle to reverse again, but will do so without much of outcry.
Then collectors just swoop in and collect up the games for another day, after many decide that it is no longer "cool".

#22566 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

There is NO BANKRUPTCY right now and I do not have to be an attorney to know that. However, you still did not give me an example of JPops preferential payout, bankruptcy rules aside.

Jpop has vendors and contractors that have not been paid, so we know he has creditors...yet John just "paid" a large group of creditors out fully. By paying these guys... if he's insolvent (or pushed into bankruptcy soon).. that can be a preferential payment. That's your example.

#22567 2 years ago

I'm bored. We need another interesting (and funny) Kman video.

#22568 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm bored. We need another interesting (and funny) Kman video.

Ditto

#22569 2 years ago

Plus 1

#22570 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Jpop has vendors and contractors that have not been paid, so we know he has creditors...yet John just "paid" a large group of creditors out fully. By paying these guys... if he's insolvent (or pushed into bankruptcy soon).. that can be a preferential payment. That's your example.

Will never fly, sorry. These people who bought MG were NOT creditors, they were customers. They were owed a product or a refund. They got their product.

#22571 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'm bored. We need another interesting (and funny) Kman video.

I recorded a podcast with him yesterday morning. I am sure that will stir things up.

#22572 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Will never fly, sorry. These people who bought MG were NOT creditors, they were customers. They were owed a product or a refund. They got their product.

Hmm, let's talk about that for a second. If they got refunds as opposed to a game, and no one else got a refund, that would sound like a preferential payment to me.

Not what happened of course, they got (generally speaking) what they paid for. I know nothing about bankruptcy laws and whether that (getting what you pay for from an insolvent entity) qualifies as a preferential payment. Even more unclear is what happens to the downstream buyer who acquired it in good faith (there are some protections in the law in some circumstances for a third party purchaser/holder in good faith, im just not sure if they apply at all in bankruptcy).

I'm sure there are case law examples on point (one way or the other) people could find that would put the issue to rest.

#22573 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Hmm, let's talk about that for a second. If thy got refunds as opposed to a game, and no one else got a refund, that would sound like a preferential payment to me.

Agree on that too!

-1
#22574 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Will never fly, sorry. These people who bought MG were NOT creditors, they were customers. They were owed a product or a refund. They got their product.

And actually, the argument DOES exist that someone who is owed a product can be construed as a creditor. However, because of timelines and MG customers paying in BEFORE RAZA or AIW and even before any vendors went on being owed, there is no way in hell anyone will be able to prove preferential payouts.

23
#22575 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

And actually, the argument DOES exist that someone who is owed a product can be construed as a creditor. However, because of timelines and MG customers paying in BEFORE RAZA or AIW and even before any vendors went on being owed, there is no way in hell anyone will be able to prove preferential payouts.

IMG_6602 (resized).JPG

#22576 2 years ago

I stayed home last night.....and I agree, it's all chest pounding speculation right now, including myself. Courts will decide. Be interesting to read/hear? these transcripts.

#22577 2 years ago

I wonder if the atty Zane knows how to swap in a different plaintiff for one(s) in the current suit that were effectively made whole when they took receipt of their MG. I could take their spot.

#22578 2 years ago

Another version ...

IMG_4363 (resized).JPG

#22579 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

However, because of timelines and MG customers paying in BEFORE RAZA or AIW and even before any vendors went on being owed,

Who came first is Irrelevant. What matters is the concept of fairness between the creditors owed. There is a pecking order... not everyone is equal... but the critical concept is that the business is already incapable of paying all its debts... so the process is to ensure all creditors get their equitable shake at the remainder - not just some people.

There are key criteria to meet... and This is not a cut and dry situation. The MG scenario can be very complicated.... the games were way late... and not on schedule... this complicates the subjectivity tests regarding if this was 'normal course of business'. The incomplete state of the games can be argued the games were not even done... but were shipped to placate the MG buyers.... also making them look more like a preferential transfer.

It's something that would be argued out in court... but the criteria re not going to be based on your ideas of what you thin preferential means as just a dictionary word and first in line....

If you want to see a simple write up.. look at
http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/bankruptcy/preferential-debt-payments.html#

If you want to see how things can get involved... here is a bit more deep dive into some of the criteria and how things can be argued to be in/out look at. https://www.law360.com/articles/555513/how-creditors-can-fight-preference-claims

#22580 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

... but the critical concept is that the business is already incapable of paying all its debts... so the process is to ensure all creditors get their equitable shake at the remainder - not just some people.

I want my money (resized).jpg

#22581 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Who came first is Irrelevant. What matters is the concept of fairness between the creditors owed. There is a pecking order... not everyone is equal... but the critical concept is that the business is already incapable of paying all its debts... so the process is to ensure all creditors get their equitable shake at the remainder - not just some people.
There are key criteria to meet... and This is not a cut and dry situation. The MG scenario can be very complicated.... the games were way late... and not on schedule... this complicates the subjectivity tests regarding if this was 'normal course of business'. The incomplete state of the games can be argued the games were not even done... but were shipped to placate the MG buyers.... also making them look more like a preferential transfer.
It's something that would be argued out in court... but the criteria re not going to be based on your ideas of what you thin preferential means as just a dictionary word and first in line....
If you want to see a simple write up.. look at
http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/bankruptcy/preferential-debt-payments.html#
If you want to see how things can get involved... here is a bit more deep dive into some of the criteria and how things can be argued to be in/out look at. https://www.law360.com/articles/555513/how-creditors-can-fight-preference-claims

Probably the best post and informative post on this subject yet. This will all boil down as to how it is all presented in court and how the judge sees it. I am sure there will be a lot of case study involved for the judge to draw from. But bottom line, it is what the judge decides and how he determines the laws will apply in this particular case. It's my opinion, based on how I interpret things, that no MG owner is going to have to return games or pay penalties/fines for receiving a MG game.

Remember, OJ was found to be innocent. I rest my case.

#22582 2 years ago

He's not bankrupt, officially yet anyway, and with the release of MG, I find it hard to believe the judge is going to make MG owners couch these games up years from now. Did RAZA or AIW have to buy MG to get either of those other games? If not, why would they not be seperate transactions, especially since Jpop did create an LLC. I really feel this is going to go nowhere, I hope I'm wrong..

13
#22583 2 years ago

You Asked For It!!
Whats Behind the BACKBOX VIDEO:

#22584 2 years ago

Information for buyers keeping their games...

The information description on the Lion Saw feature was updated on magicgirlcode.org

Please see below:

Lion Saw Feature

"Complete 3 bank certain number of times (setting adjustable - default of 5) to start saw and double scoring. Each set of 3 targets needs to be hit within a certain time to ‘lock-in’ the completion. When 1 target is hit the associated lamp is lit and the others in the bank start to flash for the given time. If the timer expires before all 3 targets are hit all 3 lamps go out and the player needs to start again. End of ball cancels any lamps currently lit. Completed banks are stored cross ball. Starting the saw loads a new background, music and a timer is displayed along with a double scoring message to aid player. Completing 3 bank awards you Copper from the Lion (he is keeping) - 3 pieces (setting adjustable). Collected copper is shown on the lower status panel. If target bank is only 2 targets, 3rd target will be virtually hit from additional hits once they themselves are lit."

There is another MOD option to reinstall the full 3 targets potentially with narrow ones instead of the 2 currently installed. See the rules above though as to how the 3rd target is virtually selected when missing. The lamps lit are the HEX lamps. The is also another MOD option to install the Lion Saw motor and have the blade spin, as per my prototype. More details on this if i get time and find the files.

#22585 2 years ago

Ahhhhh it's a profit deal!

IMG_6621 (resized).PNG

#22586 2 years ago

55K, that is just insane. You can buy a 2017 Corvette for that.

#22587 2 years ago

Special K is loving all this attention.

#22588 2 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

Special K is loving all this attention.

He says he wont flip it... But we know better.

#22589 2 years ago

"It's still in the box and unopened".

No wonder! One can't be disappointed by missing game features that way.

#22590 2 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Ahhhhh it's a profit deal!
» YouTube video

Is this one Fattrain's game?

#22591 2 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

"It's still in the box and unopened".
No wonder! One can't be disappointed by missing game features that way.

Maybe it's like that cat in the box?

As long as it's in the unopened box, it's simultaneously both unfinished and finished until the box is opened and the pin observed.

#22592 2 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

Special K is loving all this attention.

Brenda sounds hot!

11
#22593 2 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

Maybe it's like that cat in the box?
As long as it's in the unopened box, it's simultaneously both unfinished and finished until the box is opened and the pin observed.

This is not schrodinger's cat. I used that analogy when talking about recent NIB games with possible playfield insert issues. Until you opened the box you didn't know if you had a good on or bad one.

In this case, when you open the box you know you are finding a dead cat.

#22594 2 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Ahhhhh it's a profit deal!
» YouTube video

Great way to build hype. Costs nothing to advertise in order to create a value. Doesn't matter if it sells. Up to $55k is now the benchmark price for MG. If I manage to get one for $40k, what a bargain.

#22595 2 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Great way to build hype. Costs nothing to advertise in order to create a value. Doesn't matter if it sells. Up to $55k is now the benchmark price for MG. If I manage to get one for $40k, what a bargain.

Serious question... If I went on Craigslist right now and listed a Baywatch for $100K is the new benchmark price for a Baywatch $100K?

#22596 2 years ago

I don't blame anyone who sells a MG. This crazy pricing is driven by a handful of buyers where money clearly isn't an issue.

Quoted from guyincognito:

Serious question... If I went on Craigslist right now and listed a Baywatch for $100K is the new benchmark price for a Baywatch $100K?

No. In my opinion pricing is driven by actual sales. Even then there are going to be so few actual sales that the "fair market" value is going to be tough to ever establish.

#22597 2 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

Serious question... If I went on Craigslist right now and listed a Baywatch for $100K is the new benchmark price for a Baywatch $100K?

No, because plenty of Baywatch games have already sold at $xxxx and can be verified.

MG at this point has no benchmark. We have the unsold one on EBay (which I'm guessing will be ended early) and this $55k one.

#22598 2 years ago

Benchmark price will be established after the ebay auction closes. I posted this in another thread this morning.

** I'm really pleased to see this eBay auction as the end result should give us a true indicator of MG value. I know the seller, not real well, but enough to believe there wont be any bidding shenanigans. As the auction's expiration approaches the bidding should get really interesting especially in the final hour.

I don't trust those CraigsList ads as you never know what the final negotiated price is or if its a prank ad. The one in LA that popped up for 60K I find very suspicious as it was taken down in a day. That's a lot of verification's exchanged by both sides in such a brief time frame. Sure it could happen but at these prices I think it unlikely.

This eBay auction is going to be fun and should set the benchmark price.

Best wishes, Rob. Your winning bid I predict will set Pinside on tilt.

#22599 2 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

He says he wont flip it... But we know better.

Why shouldn't he change his mind and sell it? If I was in his shoes, I certainly would consider selling it....There is hype and interest now, in a year? maybe not....I would not fault him in the least if he sells it..

#22600 2 years ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

Why shouldn't he change his mind and sell it? If I was in his shoes, I certainly would consider selling it....There is hype and interest now, in a year? maybe not....I would not fault him in the least if he sells it..

Exactly, especially since he now has a better idea of what the pin is like, what works and what is missing, what might be able to be fixed with code and what hardware will never work.

If he bought it with the sole intention to flip it, he never would have taken it out of the box, just like all the other pins that he has unapologetically flipped.

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