(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

5 years ago



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#22401 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

This really just opens up the door for the next sham pinball company.. when people see people selling MagicGirl for many thousands more than they put out.. every Tom Dick and Harry is going to throw money at a project hoping for a payoff... no matter how sketchy it is.

But without Jpop and the intriguing debacle that led to this game I doubt any other boutique will see this level of collectibility.

#22402 2 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

I know of three sales personally. This is by far the low end.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Do tell...what did they sale for?

#22403 2 years ago

2 bids now

#22404 2 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

But without Jpop and the intriguing debacle that led to this game I doubt any other boutique will see this level of collectibility.

Really, what about BBB. Didn't the price of that game start the boutique preorder nonsense?

#22405 2 years ago

Will this even be considered "a JPop game" at this point? He had 5 to 6 years and couldn't complete it. If the community and Jim (the original coder) decide to complete, they should get the credit.

Makes you wonder how much credit he deserves for any other "JPop game"?

#22406 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Any man who hates dogs and babies can't be all bad?

"I love little children . . . par-boiled!"

10
#22407 2 years ago
Quoted from guyincognito:

Why does this game have any value at all outside of maybe the scrap value?

Cracks me up to see that there are still people who think that MG will not be worth more than the original $16k price.

#22408 2 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

Really, what about BBB. Didn't the price of that game start the boutique preorder nonsense?

Sure, was talking more about future releases from other boutiques in reply to Flynn's post. BBB also has a great back story and it is very rare. But nothing compared to MG - 25 made, a legendary "artist" behind it who has most likely made his last game, legal action, but plucked from the depths of unobtanium by AP (someone should make a movie about this).

Not any boutique maker can look at this and say "Magic Girl/BBB sold for this therefore we can also sell for this". Apart from rarity, to achieve the collectability of Magic Girl or BBB, there needs to be some real back story and personality behind it. Look at B66SLE/AMH/RZ - they have rarity, but no real back story. It's debatable whether or not any of those will even hold their value.

-3
#22409 2 years ago

God, what fool would pay 20g's for that? The playfield looks like a 15 pound pile of clear plexi. It shouldn't be worth half that even if everything worked.

#22410 2 years ago

I'm not surprised to see people paying up for these. There are a lot of wealthy collectors that like to have rare pieces like this. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that I would have thought anyone who would be willing to pay these kind of crazy prices for one would have already been on the original pre-order list.

#22411 2 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

I'm not typically transparent? Ummmm.... what?
I'm pretty sure I've been nothing but a positive good pinsider here since day 1 but if anyone thinks of less of me I encourage them to speak up.

For the record....I dont give a fak if your not transparent......its none of my business

#22412 2 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

The only thing that doesn't make sense is that I would have thought anyone who would be willing to pay these kind of crazy prices for one would have already been on the original pre-order list.

A few reasons why they weren't:

1) That list filled up pretty fast and was small.
2) A lot of people don't like waiting for something uncertain but will pay a premium to own now for something certain.
3) New super collectors have risen in past five years during the whole ordeal, they weren't in the game (so to speak) back when this started.

#22413 2 years ago

Lets face it, those collectors who used to think a MM or even a BBB was the ultimate showcase game will now want MG - looks amazing, 19 made. A true limited edition. Truly rare, not artificially rare like many LE games.

And gameplay will only improve from here on in.

#22414 2 years ago

It's simple. There were very few of these pinball machines made. That means their value will go up. It makes no difference if it is a rubbish pin. The fact that it looks pretty is a bonus and will make it even more valuable.

I have no doubt in years to come we will see MG's that have been vastly improved to make many of them closer to the the original vision of the machine.

#22415 2 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

And gameplay will only improve from here on in.

...If Applejuice is willing to help those making quick profits off the work he was screwed over.

#22416 2 years ago
Quoted from Cornelius:

"We" =/= everyone who buys pinball machines.
Most people I know with collections hate the internet in general, much less us bickering bozos on Pinside.

No one is going to pay 20k+ for Magic Girl who doesn't know exactly what the hype/drama is about.. pinside or not.

#22417 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

I disagree.....lol!
No way. No one is going to put any money in a pre-order at this point on a start-up unless it's a nominal deposit. Like $250 or less. Even then, probably not.

Look at what's happened..

4-5 years ago... presale HYPE! - People are buying in every project that comes along
0-2 years ago - startups struggle - "I'll never preorder again!!!"
Now - TBL may have just become super limited... MGs are flipping for 50%+ profit

Why wouldn't the risk takers jump on a boutique opportunity hoping to make out like a TBL owner or MG owner?

The 'fear of missing out' is right back into action... people are still buying LEs.. and boutique startups are 2 for 3. PPS/CG is building... JJP is building.. Star Wars is coming.

The "pre-order is dead" just got nullified by jpop IMO.

#22418 2 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

Really, what about BBB. Didn't the price of that game start the boutique preorder nonsense?

Not really.

The game won a bunch of awards at the coin-op shows, then Capcom closed, then Williams bought the rights, then Williams closed.

Then Gene bought the rights and made ~200 of them for $4500.

#22419 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Not really.
The game won a bunch of awards at the coin-op shows, then Capcom closed, then Williams bought the rights, then Williams closed.
Then Gene bought the rights and made ~200 of them for $4500.

When did the price of these start going for 20k?

#22420 2 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

When did the price of these start going for 20k?

A few years ago.

#22421 2 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

When did the price of these start going for 20k?

One sold on here for 20k this last month...there were lots of extras though.

#22422 2 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

There are a lot of wealthy collectors that like to have rare pieces like this. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that I would have thought anyone who would be willing to pay these kind of crazy prices for one would have already been on the original pre-order list.

Quoted from cooked71:

Not any boutique maker can look at this and say "Magic Girl/BBB sold for this therefore we can also sell for this". Apart from rarity, to achieve the collectability of Magic Girl or BBB, there needs to be some real back story and personality behind it. Look at B66SLE/AMH/RZ - they have rarity, but no real back story. It's debatable whether or not any of those will even hold their value.

Quoted from benheck:

Don't understand why everyone is so shocked about this game's resale value.
This is the same hobby where a repro BBB goes for 20k and there's 175 (ish) of them. Do the original 10 ever change hands?
Also the same hobby where 80 people couldn't give Stern 15k fast enough for BM66SLE.
Let's face it, pre-orders are a lottery - and the MG owners just won.

Ben, What about your games Ben like Bill Paxton? Or other rare games like the rework done for Metallica? Or the Matrix game? Or WOOLY? Do you think any of those games would fetch 20+K?

Or what about whitewoods? I've not heard of whitewoods of modern DMD games going for these kinds of numbers..

Things need to be desirable and rare... I'm just blown away that something that was so limited from the start, and sold as such... is demanding such money when it's a fraction of other much more rare games... games that are either more rare, or games with actual authentic scarcity.. instead of PLANNED scarcity.

JPOP should be printing playfields as fast as he can right now and selling them for $1000 each since people just want to look at this thing...

#22423 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

A few years ago.

Was pretty much my point. If that game did not sell for 20k a couple years ago, no game would have been sold for 15k+ from Stern or anyone else.

#22424 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

You are of course right. You're a model Pinsider.
I'm going to give Hilton the benefit of the doubt and assume he means most people with uber high end collections like you are not transparent and you are one of the exceptions, and that he just worded this belief in an awkward way? I dunno...comment seemed out of place otherwise if it was a personal target on you.

correct. Fattrain normally stays silent and does not quote prices even though he is one of the high end and rare collectors on the site. Not his normal style to be listing prices so transparently.

#22425 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I will advise you, Marlboroman, that none of this has anything to do with our failed negotiations for you to buy my MG spot **TWO YEARS AGO**.

Fair enough Kim... hope you get your game and definitely nice to see some good news with this fiasco!

-Mauro

#22426 2 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

Was pretty much my point. If that game did not sell for 20k a couple years ago, no game would have been sold for 15k+ from Stern or anyone else.

I don't think we can blame BBB. It was selling for $6K and $13K for a long time before it went up to $20K.

A NIB Medieval Madness went for $29K a few years ago.....I'd blame that before I'd blame anything else.

A game can't just be rare (The single Stern Lazer Lord ever made sold for only $7k), it has to have have a popular following to command $$$$$$$

#22427 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

A game can't just be rare (The single Stern Lazer Lord ever made sold for only $7k), it has to have have a popular following to command $$$$$$$

I remember that eBay auction years ago. Where did the game end up?

25
#22428 2 years ago

Dang if People are paying north of $30k for MG's, John could of sold the 25 games off for $800,000+ and split the money up between all buyers and unpaid vendors and nearly made everyone whole with the Proceeds. Now it seems MG folks will double their money and the unpaid vendors, RAZA & AIW owners will eat a bag of dicks.
Thanks again John!

image (resized).png

#22429 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I don't think we can blame BBB. It was selling for $6K and $13K for a long time before it went up to $20K.

That's 14k, nice investment.

#22430 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

No one is going to pay 20k+ for Magic Girl who doesn't know exactly what the hype/drama is about.. pinside or not.

And yet...

#22431 2 years ago

Jpop Cashed out his reputation, and the Magic Girl scraps are the last bits of any value that will come out of the Popadiuk pinball mind.

#22432 2 years ago

Did Zidware pre-order $,$$$,$$$.$$
Pull more prospective money from Stern or JJP sales?

#22433 2 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Jpop Cashed out his reputation, and the Magic Girl scraps are the last bits of any value that will come out of the Popadiuk pinball mind.

But was it like he was ever going to be hired again by another pinball company again?

#22434 2 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Dang if People are paying north of $30k for MG's, John could of sold the 25 games off for $800,000+ and split the money up between all buyers and unpaid vendors and nearly made everyone whole with the Proceeds. Now it seems MG folks will double their money and the unpaid vendors, RAZA & AIW owners will eat a bag of dicks.
Thanks again John!

The other solution in the table was just make more Magic Girls. Pintasia already floated that idea. It would still be hyper rare (less than BBB even if there was 200 of them), but fund zidware, have a shot at finishing the other games, and let any zid customers switch over if they wanted.

Now John has no money, the MAgic Girls barely function with no hope of completion, the original vendors got stiffed, the 100+ other zid customers got stiffed.

As Ben said, there was a pinball lottery and 25 people won it, but how does that really help anything.

#22435 2 years ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

But was it like he was ever going to be hired again by another pinball company again?

He had a phenomenal reputation in the pinball community among collectors and players and was a beloved speaker at shows. I don't think Stern would have ever hired him (Gomez knew too much about him from WMS) but - had the Zidware project never happened at all - I could easily have seen him doing a one off game at JJP like Lawlor.

#22436 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Let's face it, pre-orders are a lottery - and the MG owners just won.

After all the crap and waiting, the MG owners deserve to have something good happen.

#22437 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

He had a phenomenal reputation in the pinball community and was a beloved speaker at shows. I don't think Stern would have ever hired him (Gomez knew too much about him from WMS) but - had the Zidware project never happened at all - I could easily have seen him doing a one off game at JJP like Lawlor.

His games are totally loved, but I had the impression his reputation was not great inside the industry.

22
#22438 2 years ago
Quoted from Dooskie:

After all the crap and waiting, the MG owners deserve to have something good happen.

I hold no ill will towards the MG owners, and what they choose to do, which includes flipping their games. They did not create this situation and did not stiff the vendors or other zid customers. That is all on John.

#22439 2 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

His games are totally loved, but I had the impression his reputation was not great inside the industry.

I think the old WMS gang knew his shortcomings well, I've heard through the grapevine that Gomez in particular has thought he's a complete flake for a long time and partially blames him for what happened at the end at WMS.

Wouldn't have stopped him from getting a job with JJP though. Heck, even when Zidware was totally melting down early last year Jack still went and met with JPop and didn't come away with a totally bad impression. JPop had a lot of followers and can clearly cast spells of a sort on people.

He would have gotten a job had he not formed Zidware and gone down the path he selected. Whether it was a steady job or one off's is the real question in my personal opinion...but I'd have to think it would have been a one and done deal once whoever hired him had to bring someone else in to finish the title (but they would have left JPop's name on it for customer buzz).

#22440 2 years ago

As the rumors go, he was offered a job at Stern, before zidware, but it was at "Stern pay" and not an acceptable amount to him.

12
#22441 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

...If Applejuice is willing to help those making quick profits off the work he was screwed over.

I didn't buy MG as an investment, and will never sell it. Waiting 5.5 years for an incomplete machine I had to sue to get is also not a 'quick profit'! I also offered to lend Jim my MG for free for as long as he needs for coding, and to pay him for the coding. If all 19 owners do this, he will hopefully get paid what he was owed and more, and I would imagine he should get job offers too!

I'm interested in pinball for fun, even though Jpop hasn't made that terribly easy in the last 6 years...

So- 'quick profits'? No, neither financial nor PR (Special K). Not for me at least.

14
#22442 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

doing a one off game at JJP like Lawlor.

Lawlor works for JJP and is doing more than one.

LTG : )

#22443 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Lawlor works for JJP and is doing more than one.

Great to hear!!! For some reason I thought he was an independent contractor (I don't recall why I thought that).

#22444 2 years ago

A 16K$ MG investment equates to about 21.5K$ after 6 years invested at 5+% compounded. That would set MG
price at about 22K as a break even number. Price is always simple economics, supply (rare) and demand (a lot.)

John had to demonstrate some product delivery, bad product or otherwise, to reduce the effect of criminal law.

#22445 2 years ago

Re read what I wrote.... unless you think these mg buyers somehow think this is normal pinball pricing...

#22446 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Great to hear!!! For some reason I thought he was an independent contractor (I don't recall why I thought that).

He did work as a independent contractor for Stern (I don't believe for all titles that he did for them though)...not sure of his business relationship with JJP.

#22447 2 years ago

I love the philosophizing going on about this insane phenomena...but bottom line, somehow they made 20 or so of these things...they are basically half-finished project machines, and a handful of people are willing to spend insane money on 'em.

I really can't explain it and neither can you. I guess it just shows how crazy the very top end of this hobby is right now, but I don't think it really relates to anything else. Doesn't have anything to do with any other game or manufacturer, trends in the hobby or industry, or anything else.

Basically, it's just some crazy shit. I hope whomever ponies up the cost of a nicely-loaded Toyota gets some enjoyment out of their investment.

#22448 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Basically, it's just some crazy shit ...

I've been trying to think of something to say, but that just sums it up.

Crazy shit.

rd

#22449 2 years ago

The simple fact is there are far more people with more money than they can spend, than there are MG games. Only around 20 games exist, there will always be more people that would like it in their game room, for whatever reason, than there are games to go around.

Like it or hate it, Magic Girl is part of pinball history.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#22450 2 years ago

Also to be clear, mine is not for sale.

I do have a friend that is thinking about letting his go though. Still in the box. Can connect if anyone is interested.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

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