(Topic ID: 92436)

John Popadiuk update thread……MAGIC GIRL, RAZA, AIW…..


By iceman44

6 years ago



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#22101 3 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Serious question - and not meant to be taken as a defense of Jpop or go off topic, but a sincere inquiry: At what point does an "homage" or "inspiration", even a subtle or subconscious one END, and "full credit originality" BEGIN?
The timing of this JPOP tangent is interesting, since last night while trolling the local Craigslist I saw a listing for a project '67 Jolly Roger. I'd never seen or heard of the game, so I took a look...

...and my first thought was "Holy Shit, that's like Firepower's father". I mean look at it: four top lanes with center target, surrounded by orbit shots, buoyed by a cluster of 4 pops, and a center "bonus" grid leading to the drain.
Give it a nip here and a tuck there to add some locks; populate the wasted space in the lower PF by slapping some targets in front of the pops, replace the right rebound rubber with a target bank, convert to an Italian bottom and boom: Firepower.

I always thought (along with most people, it seems) that FP was Steve Ritchie's original work. Obviously the flow revisions and rule set are to Steve's credit. But the basic playfield layout seems heavily inspired if not outright reworked from Jolly Rodger.
So at some point everything "original" is inspired by what preceded it. Being forthright, humble, and acknowledging prior work can get you some goodwill. But then the where do you draw the line for full credit?

The differences you mention are pretty big and pops placement may look slightly off but that's pretty big as well.

You have to imagine all of this geometry being figured out in the mind, on paper, and then into the machine. There are so many subtle differences that you can tell these two aren't the same layouts.

#22102 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

There are so many differences that it would be silly to make a list. And so few similarities that it would also be pointless

Well obviously there's a lot of differences. 2" flippers, lower voltage (slower) coils, and the bottom no-inlane layout.... for starters. I get it.

But then it's like 1979 and you're making a game for MODERN (at that time) players and what they expect: faster balls, the hip Italian bottom, more stuff to shoot at. You're going to do this in the new Solid State platform of course and OOOH - you have a big idea to add multiball because that hasn't been done in a solid state game yet...

So let's say you start R&D by taking "one of a million EMs designs like Jolly Roger" and reworking it to fit those requirements...

...I obviously can't prove it. And sure... making one change (OK, I changed the orbit for a lock so now the inlanes don't work... so let's move them up 1/8" inch ea... now the pop response is off so those need to be moved a tad....) leads to another and another. But the similarities are there to my eye. The "SEED IDEA" is visible if you prefer.

Take it step further, if Firepower were made today we'd expect it to be evolved with ramps and a fan layout in addition to a DMD. Mark Ritchie attempted the former in 1983.

Everything builds upon what came before it to some extent, is what I'm saying. So where do you declare a true "innovation" these days?

I agree that little about Magic Girl seems truly innovative as a single piece or part. The same could be said of many games outside of silly toys. So does an innovative / original game exist via its overall execution? Clever rules? The intangible "sum" of standard parts? Or one or two new gee-whiz crazy toys which themselves only amount to a small percentage of a game?

I'm just fascinated by the design aspects of pinball, really. So many fixed points and intangibles to consider.

#22103 3 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Well obviously there's a lot of differences. 2" flippers, lower voltage (slower) coils, and the bottom no-inlane layout.... for starters. I get it.
But then it's like 1979 and you're making a game for MODERN (at that time) players and what they expect: faster balls, the hip Italian bottom, more stuff to shoot at. You're going to do this in the new Solid State platform of course and OOOH - you have a big idea to add multiball because that hasn't been done in a solid state game yet...
So let's say you start R&D by taking "one of a million EMs designs like Jolly Roger" and reworking it to fit those requirements...
...I obviously can't prove it. But the similarities are there to my eye. Take it step further, if Firepower were made today we'd expect it to be evolved with ramps and a fan layout in addition to a DMD. Mark Ritchie attempted the former in 1983.
Everything builds upon what came before it to some extent, is what I'm saying. So where do you declare a true "innovation" these days?
I agree that little about Magic Girl seems truly innovative as a single piece or part. The same could be said of many games outside of silly toys. So does an innovative / original game exist via its overall execution? Clever rules? The intangible "sum" of standard parts? Or one or two new gee-whiz crazy toys which themselves only amount to a small percentage of a game?
I'm just fascinated by the design aspects of pinball, really. So many fixed points and intangibles to consider.

I feel like we are going in circles here.

Games that remind me of Firepower? T2 comes to mind.

Games that don't? Jolly Roger.

But hey maybe you are right. Just ask Steve Ritchie, he'll probably tell you.

#22104 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I feel like we are going in circles here.

Username guilty as charged.

Appreciate the opinions... back to MG particulars.

#22105 3 years ago

there is only so much playfield to work with and the lower half is pretty limiting with what you can do, so you will always find elements of one machine in another. Are there new twists, sure all the time, but you would be hard pressed to find a bunch of machines where you could not find parts of other games that are similar.

That was one of the benefits of the wide bodies, it did give a little more surface to work with, and helped with getting some more side to side shots.

#22106 3 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

they talk about the news and not about the news anchor...

Unless it's Sheena Parveen...well, I guess technically meteorologist and not anchor.

sheena-parveen-photo (resized).png

#22107 3 years ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

I'm guessing there were many more out of control comments by him over the years to the private group.

yeah it got to the point we had to tip toe around him because he didn't handle himself well when challenged. And even if you were to review where my questioning of him was more pointed, I was still kissing his ass to not make him blow up. All I was looking for at the time was some clear answers to clear questions when he was still pretending everything was A OK.

Hindsight is 20/20. I've learned my lesson.

#22108 3 years ago

Please post the things he said about custom games at expo. Love to see what he said

#22109 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I'm not seeing it dude. There's like a million EMs with that kind of layout and none of them remind me of Firepower. There are so many differences between the FP and Roger layouts that it would be silly to make a list.

Well I think this is the crux of discussions like this, all the pins are similar in so many ways, it's easy to stretch a lot of games, and say they are just like this, or just like that, but in that rectangle of the play-field with thousands of titles produced, there's bound to be some that seem to be a lot like others when they had nothing to do with it just coincidence. Gameplan Sharpshooter a lot say it's just like Sky Jump/Free Fall but is it? There is a similar layout but many differences can be pointed out. A lot of people compare Adams Family with Jurassic Park, I don't see it but I've heard that a few times. It's like music, sometimes a song sounds like it was stolen from another but there are differences. Unconscious plagiarism, or just coincidence? Who can say sometimes it's not black and white.

#22110 3 years ago
Quoted from InfiniteLives:

I like how he mentions their egos at the "other place" lol, and all he apparently cared about was stroking his ego. I'm guessing there were many more out of control comments by him over the years to the private group.

I think he was stroking more than his ego, when he was writing stuff like that. Lol.

#22111 3 years ago

Are there any more game play tests to report from any buyers? I did list a series of things to test and also report the software version installed? Has anyone got the power playfield to run as yet as I described before?

#22112 3 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Let's have a contest! The first person (after this post) to mention Kaneda in any form or nickname shall donate $20 to Pinside......

#22113 3 years ago
Quoted from applejuice:

Are there any more game play tests to report from any buyers?

Yes…Chris said No Magna Flippers…the switch by the right orbit isn't even wired….
Video soon….

#22114 3 years ago

The best nostalgic functional example (not the first) of the the "spinning lamp target" from TOTAN is homage to Chicago Coin's 1975 EM title, Gold Record. Bally/Williams did similar examples during the same period. People have a tendency to forget the past.

BTW, MG mini-playfield does not work, it requires additional redesign by technical engineers to actually function as it is theoretically concepted and does not have an easy way to activate. It also is buried under tons of plastic parts, and is unserviceable without complete disassembly of the upper section of the game.

gold_record-1975-f-1 (resized).jpg

#22115 3 years ago

MG Magna Flipper Attempt Video #1

#22116 3 years ago

Magic Girl Magna Flipper Attempt Video #2

#22117 3 years ago

Anticipating #3 where we learn if the switch is wired!

Really appreciate him doing this. I feel guilty now about the amount of TBL videos I've taken.

#22118 3 years ago

It's too bad that upper playfield doesn't do anything or work. It could have been a signature feature of this game.

At this point, I figure one day these games will be done. I mean, we've seen Firepowers with drop targets, the Dredd production mod...if people are willing to throw enough time and money at this they'll be able to complete their game.

It's probably years off though.

11
#22119 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Anticipating #3 where we learn if the switch is wired!
Really appreciate him doing this. I feel guilty now about the amount of TBL videos I've taken.

Is that a switch? Looks like a one-way gate to me.

#22120 3 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

Is that a switch? Looks like a one-way gate to me.

Was just about to post the same thing.

#22121 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Really appreciate him doing this.

Me as well along with his candor.

#22122 3 years ago
Quoted from stevevt:

Was just about to post the same thing.

Well you are both right.

Kaneda forgot to put it in "one way gate" test mode.

Screen Shot 2017-02-23 at 10.49.36 PM (resized).png

#22123 3 years ago
Quoted from MarkInc:

Is that a switch? Looks like a one-way gate to me.

Agreed. The right orbit switch seemed to be triggering that flasher and a sound. Guessing you either need to do something else before qualifying power, it is not actually in the code, or the game is not in arcade mode?

#22124 3 years ago

A Look Beneath the Magic Girl Playfield Video!

#22125 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Kaneda forgot to put it in "one way gate" test mode.

What the hell is that?

Chris said he tried to follow what Applejuice said….

If something has to be done before power can be lit……he will try that tomorrow.

#22126 3 years ago

What is with all the unused plugs in that thing?

#22127 3 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

What the hell is that?
Chris said he tried to follow what Applejuice said….

That's not a switch. It's a gate. There's no switch attached to it so you shouldn't expect wires, or for it to work in test mode.

When you are in a switch test you need to find switches to test, not gates.

So what does that right rollover switch do on the right orbit? Shouldn't that light your power letters?

#22128 3 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

A Look Beneath the Magic Girl Playfield Video!
» YouTube video

plenty of unused connectors...

#22129 3 years ago

The middle assembly seems like it should do something.. I mean, the coil on the underside is a part they wouldn't need to populate at all if it wasn't going to work ever.

It seems lamer and lamer though that JPOP is silent while apple juice's huge generosity is the only way it seems to figure this game out.. despite him being shorted 11k and a game.

#22130 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's probably years off though.

Sooner than I'm likely to see my RAZA machine in my living room....

#22131 3 years ago

Secondary left flipper button has no switch.

-3
#22132 3 years ago

Well thanks Chris

I saw at least one dangling emtpy connector.

Perfect title for you. You can spend the rest of your days throwing monies at it to program and mod it to be your heart's content.

Oh and your real girl seems very nice just don't lose her on the way.

I'd be hurling in the bathroom though wishing my TOTAN was still around.

Lots of good info though that I am sure will help others out with legal actions.

#22133 3 years ago
Quoted from Mark_in_PA:

plenty of unused connectors...

Quoted from Kneissl:

Secondary left flipper button has no switch.

Wow! Seriously?? Slapped it together to get it out the door!

#22134 3 years ago
Quoted from VDrums2112:

Wow! Seriously?? Slapped it together to get it out the door!

No shocker there -- he couldn't do much by himself, amazing in and of itself that he was able to get these out the door. I'd love to know the gritty details of what he told ap to get them to set up whatever agreement they had, and what exactly transpired after .. maybe one day someone will talk

#22135 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

It seems lamer and lamer though that JPOP is silent while apple juice's huge generosity is the only way it seems to figure this game out.. despite him being shorted 11k and a game.

Unfortunately, I think the first thing we hear from JPop will be him blaming the buyers for forcing him to send out an unfinished game as a result of the lawsuit.

#22136 3 years ago

It would be awesome if John Popaduik would appear on this thread and just explain stuff. Amidst all the hatred for the guy, it would be cool to see him persevere for the purpose of helping those that are getting games get them running smoothly and the way he intended them to play. There is no doubt in my mind that the man means well, despite whatever mistakes were made through his attempted execution of a bad business plan. I mean, honestly, this is why banks scrutinize business plans before awarding loans, right? To avoid things like the MG incident? Anyways, as someone from the outside looking in, I would really enjoy seeing or reading his take on MG. Heck, maybe the hidden magnet at the top of that spiral ramp actually works if you unlock it. Maybe MG is a Pandora's box that needs to be solved by the most skilled in all attributes.

#22137 3 years ago

I look forward to a good digital version of this game!

Current version...

#22138 3 years ago
Quoted from wizard_mode:

It would be awesome if John Popaduik would appear on this thread and just explain stuff.

He did like 3 public talks and 2 recorded interviews in the past 5 years, really not likely (seeing as it hasn't happened by now).
He'll most likely ride off into the metaphorical sunset...

#22139 3 years ago
Quoted from VDrums2112:

Wow! Seriously?? Slapped it together to get it out the door!

Is anyone seriously just waking up to that?

#22140 3 years ago

Hey Jpop did a joke! He has an "inspected by L.Christmas" sticker on it.

Us old WMS guys saw a lot of his stickers back in the day... or maybe he just had the most memorable name

Wonder where he is now?

#22141 3 years ago

Inspected by L. Christmas. Edit: manic ^^ beat me to it

IMG_0552 (resized).JPG

#22142 3 years ago
Quoted from wizard_mode:

It would be awesome if John Popaduik would appear on this thread and just explain stuff.

Trying for a Podcast…..

#22143 3 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Trying for a Podcast…..

I'll sum it up for you Ted.

"I'm just trying to make great pinball for the community". "I'm the hardest working man in pinball". "How much time do I have on this interview, the lightning bolt hinges were a thing of beauty and far superior to my competition". "Can you believe the poor venting system on those Stern cabinets".

"I am preparing my own rug reveal for RAZA now".

Done, drop the mic, Jpop

#22144 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'll sum it up for you Ted.
"I'm just trying to make great pinball for the community". "I'm the hardest working man in pinball". "How much time do I have on this interview, the lightning bolt hinges were a thing of beauty and far superior to my competition". "Can you believe the poor venting system on those Stern cabinets".
"I am preparing my own rug reveal for RAZA now".
Done, drop the mic, Jpop

Don't forget to criticize others for taking his designs.

#22145 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Anticipating #3 where we learn if the switch is wired!
Really appreciate him doing this. I feel guilty now about the amount of TBL videos I've taken.

It looked like it might only be a one-way gate.

#22146 3 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

Don't forget to criticize others for taking his designs.

"Hey they ripped off the thing I just ripped off!" Quote from Cheech and Chong's Next Movie

#22147 3 years ago

Oh wow...just wow..
Is that a laser cut lightning bolt on that playfield support?
Nice touch! but the magna flippers don't work!?
What the F.

IMG_3187 (resized).PNG

#22148 3 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Magic Girl Magna Flipper Attempt Video #2
» YouTube video

Ok, lets not give up hope just yet. I have more ideas and things to try!

16
#22149 3 years ago

So, here are some screen grabs off my dev machine here on progress and starting the power playfield mode. (Taken this morning)

Power playfield progress which should light POWER letters at the same time. Note the message in the main score window. The right loop switch is not activating this, so i'll see if can check archive files here in case another switch might have been assigned. Please bear with me though as i haven't looked at any of this stuff for 2 and half years!
Screen Shot 2017-02-24 at 08.24.59 (resized).png

Screen grab when you complete the POWER letters and the left ramp should be ready for a shot
Screen Shot 2017-02-24 at 08.25.10 (resized).png

Screen grab of what the screen show once you are on the power playfield
Screen Shot 2017-02-24 at 08.25.13 (resized).png

So the code should be in there, just not accessible right now.

Of course it is possible that things will just need tweaking code wise for this feature, seeing as there's been such a long time between code work and playfield completion. And this will be the case for other areas guaranteed.

#22150 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Well you are both right.
Kaneda forgot to put it in "one way gate" test mode.

What amazed me about that video was that JPOP was able to put together a nicer service menu than Stern did on it's LCD

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